Revue du Vin de France on Ripeness in White Wine

Francophone berserkers might find this article by Jean-Emmanuel Simond in the RVF thought-provoking reading: Est-on en train de dénaturer les vins blancs ? - La Revue du vin de France

Nice article William. Whats your take? Has the pendulum swung too far, wines are too skinny, too acidic, too reductive?

A really interesting article indeed. It’s a challenge for me to understand what is happening as a whole in France since I do not live there or go there often enough - are you seeing this play out with ‘mainstream’ white wines over there in general? Or are we just talking the top wines?

Cheers.

It is an interesting question. Certainly, if you threw a Chablis premier cru from Raveneau into a blind tasting of contemporary Meursaults, it would likely be one of the broader, more textural wines - and that wouldn’t have been true two decades ago. (The side issue of reduction is a bit of a blind alley, I would suggest, as there have always been producers working, intentionally or otherwise, in a reductive style.) And you have very extreme winemaking going on in the Côte de Beaune to pursue this tangier, leaner, more minimalist style: one darling of this board picked his 2018s at around 11-11.5% potential alcohol and chaptalized to 12.5%. Meanwhile, others who didn’t make their 2018s like that have been accused of doing so on social media: the debate in the region has become somewhat heated. And while we’re not at a “tipping point”, I do think the nature of ripeness is going to be interrogated a bit more thoroughly. The discussion in the French press is perhaps even a bit more advanced than in the Anglophone world, I’m not sure.

But the current state of affairs was created by the market. At the end of the day, most producers make the wines they think their clients want and tell journalists what they think journalists want to hear, so when almost everyone in the Côte de Beaune introduces their wines by saying, “I picked early to retain freshness”, what’s going on isn’t a mystery. Since you can’t know what’s “early” and what’s “late” without knowing the character of the mesoclimate, the soil hydrology, the rootstocks, the vine selections, the yield and the farming, I refrain from judging the wines based on the harvest date—I don’t even systematically inquire. But I do get the sense that producers are still getting asked when they harvest a lot.

The more interesting question is how to make classically balanced, age-worthy white Burgundies in what is seemingly a new era of warmer vintages that have—2018 excepted—also thus far been lower yielding vintages for white. There are viticultural and technical solutions that producers such as Raphaël Coche, Olivier Lamy and others are thinking about very seriously. And it’s extremely interesting. To my mind, simply picking on pH and then having to chaptalize by two degrees to produce a certain style of wine is not a sustainable solution.

I am immersed in Burgundy to such a degree that I couldn’t comment on the mainstream. But fine French wine is to a significant extent an export product in any case. Most French consumers would be just as shocked as most American consumers on seeing the price tag on a bottle of Puligny Pucelles.

Thank you for the feedback, and the ‘messaging’ seems to be the same that is going on here via a vis new oak - producers saying that they are ‘cutting back’ which implies that it is much lower, but that is not necessarily the case.

Pendulums certainly swing everywhere, but it will be interesting to follow this trend over there - and see what ‘implications’ it has for other wine growing regions.

A funny think about CA Chardonnay, for instance - most wineries here say that they have moved away from that style, but it is obvious from the best selling SKUS that the general public has not necessarily followed them.

Cheers.

And I gotta say that I’m really surprised this is not getting more commentary here on this board - especially with how many folks dig French white wines in general . . .

Cheers.

Like Muscadet?

Thanks for the link and thanks for your long thoughtful post above, William. It’s a complex topic, which is perhaps one reason not some many folks are following up, Larry, as you note below. As for myself, I got interested in aged white burgundy quite a bit later than aged red burgundy, so the premox scare was already in full swing, and I indeed have some hesitation in letting them age a long time. (I’m doing that with some '14’s, of which I bought enough that I can also pop a few from time to time.) I do think this has lead to a stylistic shift, but like you, Larry, and unlike William, I am not really able to gauge its extent or its consequences. It does seem that Burgundy continues to produce whites of great density, cut, and intensity of fruit, yet which also are leaner than those of old, and, as the article suggests, more suitable to early drinking. I am not sure that’s wholly a bad thing–seems better than generating more pre-moxed wine, but again I don’t have the longevity or experience with these to speak to the broader implications. One way or another, it seems safe to say, the wines do continue to interest me, and, given their prices, apparently a number of other folks as well. I, too, would love to hear those on the board with more experience in these quarters chime in.

so will these details be published in your tasting notes for said wines?

Thanks for posting the article, William. It was an interesting read and this is a healthy perspective to consider.

Do any of the producers you visit seem to think this is a troubling trend? Is it common that many don’t realize they’ve gone a tad too far or are moving in that direction and in danger of doing so?

What is their general perception?

Thanks for all your insights so far.

Thank you for this interesting article William .
Indeed , " hot " vintages give us wine that is big , fat , round but lacking freshness . So I understand that the vignerons are contemplating how to avoid this lack of freshness . Picking at the right moment becomes trickier and trickier . Picking too late will give you heavy wines , picking too early thin wines . But I have not seen a " trend " in either direction . It’s just very difficult to do it right .
In the article , he also claims that nobody ages white Burgundy anymore . I was told the same thing at a tasting with the brothers Ente 2 months ago ( by their extremely arrogant commercial guy , if you have met him you will know who it is ). Don’t know if that is true … some friends drink earlier because they are afraid of premox , but " old " white Burgundy is still the real deal imho .( and what is old ? 20 years ? )
Finally , he claims that talented winemakers like Roulot are extremely rare in Burgundy . I disagree , I think there is a new generation with a much more open mind that is trying to make great white Burgundy . Our friend Seb at Lamy Caillat is a great example .
The climat is changing and that poses a lot of new challenges to everybody .

It is indeed a very interesting opinion, that poses very valid questions. Is it normal that a Meursault all of a sudden tastes like a Chablis? I don’t pass judgment, but I am glad the discussion is at least out in the open. I fully agree that this is a complex topic, and unless you are immersed in Burgundy, it is difficult to provide a meaningful perspective.

Maybe to add an example of how heated the debate is in Burgundy itself: on 7 September 2018, Patrick Essa, winemaker at Buisson-Charles in Meursault, who always has very clear (divise?) opinions, posted the following on Facebook (google translation from French):

“Vintage 2018, the return of phylloxera?

In 2018, once again, the history of the vintage will be written by those who will make the best communication by managing to influence the opinions according to their choices.
Obviously then, the law of the greatest number manipulated by the “influencers” will be that which will be given by the observers of all horizons who can not, without living the facts of the interior, to understand in depth the ins and outs which govern the logic of the crops.
I already think I hear the voices of those who will announce that in 2018 “it was necessary to cut early” to preserve the acidity of wines and thus their character of nervous crus of northern limit. I hear the sommelier evoke the minerality, the producer evoke the tension, the buyer will make fun of early dates to get the freshness, and the journalist determine his assessment according to who will have done where and when … In short, 2015 and 2017, the return!

All this will be wrong.

By the grace of reasoned and chilly reasoning with no oenological foundations early cutting is a kind of cancer that gnaws the quality of the wines of the Côte des Blancs very fast. This new phylloxera is pernicious because it is made of high yields on imperfectly ripe grapes and oenological corrections imagined by producers and oenologists who have not been able to adapt their winemaking model to the evolution of our times. The worst thing is that the inter-professional organizations have absolutely no long-term vision of this disastrous movement that they can even amplify by broadcasting bulletins analyzes so smoothed that they allow to give free rein to all sorts of choices irrelevant.
Most of the harvests will be chaptalized when they were brought in August under hot heat, cooled, brewed and worse, acidified in addition to being corrected in sugar. Yet all the medium-term forecasts announced warm weather and less warm in early September.
Wine is flowing, triple-digit yields are not uncommon and everyone agrees to allow 1.5 degrees of chaptalization. Everything is for the best in the best of all worlds?
No!”

I hurt my passion, hurt my Meursault, bad for the old ones who would not understand as much negligence and permissiveness, bad for those wines that could have, should have been huge … and that will be very rarely.
Fortunately it is at the end of the ball that we pay the musicians, and believe me, some will end up doing the round.

Of course, using words like ‘phylloxera’ and ‘cancer’ when describing the practices of estates which pick very early was bound to get people talking in the small community that Burgundy is, to the point that Jean-Yves Bizot of the eponimous domaine felt compelled to reply (google translation from French):

"I’m not too used to participating in forum discussions or bouncing on posts posted on Facebook. But as this one is a bit controversial, and Patrick takes part in the technical commission of the BIVB, in charge of monitoring maturations, I will allow me to answer.
I will not take a position on his words concerning maturity and dates of harvest. They are part of the points of view no doubt relevant and this results in a discussion necessary for the proper functioning of the appellations. On the other hand, I am opposed to what he says about the BIVB levies. "The worst thing is that the inter-professional organizations have absolutely no long-term vision of this disastrous movement that they can even amplify by broadcasting bulletins analyzes so smooth that they allow to give free rein to all kinds of irrelevant choices. “No offense to Patrick Essa, the BIVB can not in any case take sides. Maturation readings are given here for information. They are the result of collections made by many winemakers, who also spend time there. All results are statistically processed, with means, standard deviations, maximum and minimum values ​​by grape variety and department. So the analyzes are not smoothed and only show a trend. I still hope that the vast majority of producers do not stop at these figures to decide their date of harvest: the monitoring of maturation is written in the specifications.”

My conclusion is that climate change and premox clearly have an effect on how white burgundy are reflecting on their winemaking practices, and that we are only at the beginning of a whole process of adaptation.

PYCM?

William:

This was indeed a thought-provoking article. Thank you for posting.

Oh indeed. I drink more Muscadet than white Burgundy.

The article raises a good topic but to me it reads a little like many of our posts here (mine included): nostalgic longing for the good ol’ pre-premox, pre-global warming days and disdain for the new and trendy. Which aren’t bad points to make, but they should be considered carefully. We can’t turn back the clock. And putting premox aside, we can only guess how today’s wines will age and what will turn out to work to deal with a change in maturation tendencies and harvest timing. There is a little bit of hubris claiming (at least in a broad sense) that the early-picked chaptalized wines will fall apart or won’t gain weight or complexity in bottle just because they (for better or worse) are made to drink younger. I can’t make the winemaker aim for a vin de garde if that is not the intent.

Personally I tend not to care for clearly over-chaptalized wines. And I haven’t been gaga for PYCM like others but many people love these wines. But there is room for many styles.

On drinking younger because of premox, tons of the most fanatic Burgundy drinkers on WB are clearly appreciating this aspect of winemaking by popping their 2009s to 2016s now. (I’ve barely moved past 2002, with a few 2004 and 2007, from my own cellar except to sample on release.) Not only hipsters and somms but old school Burg nuts fearing premox and their own mortality are driving trends to have wines that drink well young and have balance at the same time (even if somewhat manufactured). And maybe it’s what has to happen based on reality despite the longing for the good old days.

Overall, I don’t think you can separate the premox problem with the issues in viticulture and winemaking raised by this article. Until there is confidence in aging white Burg again, why make the wines in a style that is hard to drink young? The article doesn’t really address this. (Maybe the best case in point is from Alsace: Clos St Hune’s premox problems, in wines made in a style that is really not meant to be drunk young.)

The comment above about Sebastian Caillat is therefore interesting. I hope he succeeds in finding a formula to recapture old school Burgundy, without premox, but I think at this point his domaine with his wife is too young to know.

There was an article by Jasper Morris in the World of Fine Wine last year (available for free here: http://www.worldoffinewine.com/news/the-golden-age-of-burgundy-6102566) where Jasper praised the state of red burgundy and lamented the state of white as follows: “Chardonnay is a muscular grape not a ballet dancer, and attempts to produce a very pure, fine style of white Burgundy have missed the point”. I read Jasper to be saying that the stylistic change is in response to premox.

I found the article to be fascinating. I’ve always considered to Jasper to be the preeminent voice in all matters burgundy (at least for my palate) and his article lines up with my own experiences. Personally, I no longer buy white burgundies and haven’t for the last 7 vintages, although I still get the occasional great bottle from my cellar in between completely oxidized treasures. I can’t complain too much as venturing away from white burgundy has led me to German Riesling, which everyone knows makes much better wine.

I was also struck by Jasper’s comments on climate change, although that is a topic for another thread.

Agreed, Herwig. There’s more than a little polemic in the piece, though it is natural for people to take sides. As for the perception of a trend, that will be defined by one’s tasting itinerary, and also by the wines which are held in the highest regard in the market one lives in. While there is obviously a lot of agreement, the hierarchy of “hottest” producers—and thus, one’s sense of Burgundy’s direction—varies in each market. And to an extent, this is an optical illusion created by the market rather than a reflection of what the totality of Burgundian winemakers are thinking about and doing.

This was indeed the blog essay I was alluding to in my earlier post. While some of Patrick’s articles are very interesting, I don’t think this one was helpful. It was unnecessarily polemical, not just criticizing methods but imputing motives for them. It is fair enough to criticize picking early, but to claim that those who are doing so are doing so for invidious commercial reasons is not helpful. One mustn’t be naive, but plenty of producers clearly pick early because they believe it’s the best decision to make the kinds of wines they want to make. The Ente brothers are not picking early to get higher yields, that’s evident. To my mind, by polarizing the issue to such an extent, I fear that Patrick has set back the discussion. But perhaps I’m mistaken.