Accessible Barolo Vintages

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Accessible Barolo Vintages

#1 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 8:28 am

What would be some more recent Barolo vintages that are reasonably accessible currently? 11, 12, 14 are some that come to mind that seem available on the secondary market for decent prices. I have had a few 12s lately that seem to be drinking quite well.

User avatar
ky1em!ttskus
Posts: 4500
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 7:38 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#2 Post by ky1em!ttskus » December 27th, 2018, 8:29 am

07?

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3546
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#3 Post by Keith A k e r s » December 27th, 2018, 8:46 am

ky1em!ttskus wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 8:29 am
07?
^definitely this

I'd also put in 09 and 11 as good vintages for more immediate drinking

User avatar
Claus Jeppesen
Posts: 1656
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 2:42 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#4 Post by Claus Jeppesen » December 27th, 2018, 8:49 am

Disregarding the "new paradigm": 1958, 1961, 1964, 1971, 1978, 1982, 1985 ....
Some 2012 taste very good right now. Also 2011 Barbarescos
Claus

Riesling and Slate

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#5 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 9:01 am

I’m looking for vintages that I can easily buy. There are a lot of 12s floating around right now, and a decent amount of 11s. Vintages older than that, not so much.

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#6 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 9:04 am

I enjoyed a 2012 Giacosa Fratelli Bussia that I opened last year.

Michael S. Monie
Posts: 3981
Joined: May 14th, 2013, 7:36 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#7 Post by Michael S. Monie » December 27th, 2018, 9:15 am

I'll once again remind that Klapp was (maybe is) of the opinion that 2007 was for the longer term and 2008 more accessible.
Fly on, Little Wing.

Subu Ramachandran
Posts: 617
Joined: May 3rd, 2017, 1:16 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#8 Post by Subu Ramachandran » December 27th, 2018, 9:22 am

This is a tough call...I would go with 12s...but just regular barolo's not the single crus.

08s are closed at the moment. The Monprivato I had a month back was fast asleep.

User avatar
Claus Jeppesen
Posts: 1656
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 2:42 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#9 Post by Claus Jeppesen » December 27th, 2018, 9:24 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 9:01 am
I’m looking for vintages that I can easily buy. There are a lot of 12s floating around right now, and a decent amount of 11s. Vintages older than that, not so much.
I know, hence my reference to said vintages [cheers.gif]
Claus

Riesling and Slate

User avatar
Jim Stewart
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 864
Joined: July 31st, 2018, 9:49 am
Location: MA / FL

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#10 Post by Jim Stewart » December 27th, 2018, 9:35 am

Michael, I cannot provide an opinion about Barolo vintage accessibility, but I can suggest a specific Barolo that is accessible and enjoyable IMO. The 2010 Michele Reverdito, while not an epic Barolo, was very enjoyable drinking this past year. I think it would even fit in on that "short universal wine list" that you recently put together. It retails for about $30 and may be available at Binny's stores. (Apparently Barolo is NOT dead at retail!) FWIW. Best, -Jim

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#11 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 9:36 am

How’s 06 atm?

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#12 Post by John Morris » December 27th, 2018, 9:56 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 9:36 am
How’s 06 atm?
It was a tannic vintage. I opened a bottle of the '06 Produttori normale a year ago. It is a fabulous wine, but needs a lot of decanting and rich food, and you still have to have a high tolerance for tannin. Generally, the '05s and '07s are more approachable.

I'm curious to hear other peoples' experiences with the '12s recently. I bought some two years ago for mid-term drinking, but I've assumed they're probably at an awkward stage right now. I was figuring I'd hold off a couple of years. But that was just a hunch. I haven't tested my theory.
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

User avatar
Ian Sutton
Posts: 5263
Joined: March 6th, 2014, 2:19 pm
Location: Norwich, UK

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#13 Post by Ian Sutton » December 27th, 2018, 10:20 am

Hi Michael
The other angle, might be to buy some wines from producers that make lighter / more approachable wines, or indeed some Langhe nebbiolo wines (which seem better than ever at the moment). The added advantage, is these should be cheaper than fancier producers in more open vintages (and for 'open' that can often mean warmer, and thus starts to move away from my preferred style).
Regards
Ian
Normal for Norfolk

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3546
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#14 Post by Keith A k e r s » December 27th, 2018, 10:32 am

John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 9:56 am


It was a tannic vintage. I opened a bottle of the '06 Produttori normale a year ago. It is a fabulous wine, but needs a lot of decanting and rich food, and you still have to have a high tolerance for tannin. Generally, the '05s and '07s are more approachable.

I'm curious to hear other peoples' experiences with the '12s recently. I bought some two years ago for mid-term drinking, but I've assumed they're probably at an awkward stage right now. I was figuring I'd hold off a couple of years. But that was just a hunch. I haven't tested my theory.

It was at the beginning of the year, but I had both a Fratelli Alessandria Monvigliero and Fenocchio Bussia and both were lovely IMO. I do think that they'll benefit from age, but it could well be a vintage with a wide open drinking window

User avatar
Ian A
Posts: 208
Joined: November 13th, 2014, 6:37 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#15 Post by Ian A » December 27th, 2018, 10:43 am

As in Bordeaux 2012 is an under-rated Cinderella vintage in Piedmont, many wines are starting to drink well. The 12 vintage is cooler than the 11 vintage which is nonetheless also usefully accessible.

More generally for drinking now, from this century on: 00, 02, 03, 05, 07, 09, 11, 12.
Ian Amstad

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#16 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 11:06 am

I had the Rivetto Serralunga lately which was also very nice.

Rob M
Posts: 48
Joined: September 12th, 2017, 12:10 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#17 Post by Rob M » December 27th, 2018, 11:51 am

In addition to the warmer vintages mentioned, I have yet to have a 2008 Barolo over the past year that I have not found very enjoyable at this stage. Will the wines improve from here, no doubt, but the '08 vintage produced some very beautiful perfumes even at this young stage.

In terms of older but not too old classic vintages, 1999 seems to be a good bet.
Rob McLaughlin

User avatar
Tim Heaton
Posts: 1077
Joined: September 8th, 2011, 4:11 pm
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado or Piemonte

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#18 Post by Tim Heaton » December 27th, 2018, 11:56 am

reasonably accessible, and 'available'? 09,11,12. I would wait on most 14s for another year or two. Generally speaking, of course
ITB
CT: Wine-Strategies

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#19 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 11:57 am

Hm. I have a few bottles of 08 grasso chinera but was assuming they’d need some years yet...

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#20 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 11:59 am

I have several bottles of the 14 unio but the notes I’ve seen on it have been pretty underwhelming; I’d guess a few years could help it.

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#21 Post by John Morris » December 27th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 11:59 am
I have several bottles of the 14 unio but the notes I’ve seen on it have been pretty underwhelming; I’d guess a few years could help it.
?
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3546
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#22 Post by Keith A k e r s » December 27th, 2018, 12:19 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:10 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 11:59 am
I have several bottles of the 14 unio but the notes I’ve seen on it have been pretty underwhelming; I’d guess a few years could help it.
?

Brovia's cuvee for 2014. They blended all of their single vineyards together to make the Unio. Personally, it was fairly disappointing when I baby killed it a few months back

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#23 Post by John Morris » December 27th, 2018, 12:22 pm

Ah, right!

Many gold trivia stars for that. I wonder how many other people remembered that bottling!
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#24 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 27th, 2018, 12:24 pm

Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:19 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:10 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 11:59 am
I have several bottles of the 14 unio but the notes I’ve seen on it have been pretty underwhelming; I’d guess a few years could help it.
?
Brovia's cuvee for 2014. They blended all of their single vineyards together to make the Unio. Personally, it was fairly disappointing when I baby killed it a few months back
Yeah I was referring to your note... I would guess this would be good in a couple years bc of the pedigree but who knows... can anyone compare 12 to 14? I heard the rain in Barolo made Concentration difficult to achieve?

DanielP
Posts: 440
Joined: October 5th, 2015, 7:21 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#25 Post by DanielP » December 27th, 2018, 12:27 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:22 pm
Ah, right!

Many gold trivia stars for that. I wonder how many other people remembered that bottling!
It's on my short list of buy candidates at PJ's cost sale
P@ik

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 793
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#26 Post by Greg K » December 27th, 2018, 12:42 pm

DanielPaik wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:27 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:22 pm
Ah, right!

Many gold trivia stars for that. I wonder how many other people remembered that bottling!
It's on my short list of buy candidates at PJ's cost sale
I love Brovia, so bought some Unio, but have yet to open one (and bought less than I normally do).

When is PJ's cost sale?

If anyone has 2011 Cappellano, that's drinking fabulously right now, though they'll also keep. It's a winner either way.
Greg Kahn

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3546
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#27 Post by Keith A k e r s » December 27th, 2018, 12:54 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:24 pm
... can anyone compare 12 to 14? I heard the rain in Barolo made Concentration difficult to achieve?
both are pretty and feminine vintages, but I feel you can buy more widely and with more confidence on 12. While 12 isn't a concentrated vintage by any means, it has more concentration than the bulk of 14s that I've tried. Personally, I really adore 12 and will be happy to keep buying them up to drink over the next 10-15 years

User avatar
Kirk.Grant
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3129
Joined: May 27th, 2012, 1:29 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#28 Post by Kirk.Grant » December 27th, 2018, 2:12 pm

I’ve had great luck with 2011’s but the last one I opened the tannin really started to show through. 2000’s have been ready as I’ve tasted a few recently. Some 2013’s are still getting rave reviews...but I wonder how much of that is hope vs. experience. Anything from Ellio Grasso is going to need time, someone mentioned the 08’s and I think that those are shut down hard for the vintage with the more traditional producers...
Cellartracker:Kirk Grant

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 5894
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#29 Post by Markus S » December 27th, 2018, 2:17 pm

If you can still find them: 2000, 2005, 2007, some 2009s, lesser 2010 (more like Barbaresco), some 2013 Laghe Rosso.
$ _ € ® e . k @

User avatar
Hank Victor
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 376
Joined: July 21st, 2018, 8:36 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#30 Post by Hank Victor » December 27th, 2018, 3:44 pm

I know this might be off topic but thoughts on 1999 vintage of Barolo and its accessibility?
- ITB
Take a chance, Columbus did..

"Two years away from being two years away”

User avatar
Andrew Hamilton
Posts: 840
Joined: June 28th, 2012, 8:36 pm
Location: Perth, Western Austalia

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#31 Post by Andrew Hamilton » December 27th, 2018, 5:06 pm

I had a 13 Vajra Albe a few days ago and it was both accessible and bright red fruited. I must admit I was a bit surprised, I was expecting a tannic beast.
Don't be an idiot schmelt. It doesn't count unless you go bardownski.

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#32 Post by John Morris » December 27th, 2018, 7:45 pm

Andrew Hamilton wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 5:06 pm
I had a 13 Vajra Albe a few days ago and it was both accessible and bright red fruited. I must admit I was a bit surprised, I was expecting a tannic beast.
That's made to be approachable young. Not sure what they do differently -- presumably shorter maceration among other things.
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

User avatar
Andrew Hamilton
Posts: 840
Joined: June 28th, 2012, 8:36 pm
Location: Perth, Western Austalia

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#33 Post by Andrew Hamilton » December 28th, 2018, 7:00 am

John Morris wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 7:45 pm
That's made to be approachable young. Not sure what they do differently -- presumably shorter maceration among other things.
Cheers John, I wasn't aware it was made for early drinking.
Don't be an idiot schmelt. It doesn't count unless you go bardownski.

Rob M
Posts: 48
Joined: September 12th, 2017, 12:10 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#34 Post by Rob M » December 28th, 2018, 11:21 am

Speaking of the 2008s and Elio Grasso specifically, I opened a 2008 E. Grasso Gavarini Chiniera last night. Same deal as when I tasted it last about a year ago, it is gorgeously perfumed as many of the 08s are but remains quite tight on the palate. It is tannic but the tannins are elegant enough that it is quite drinkable and very enjoyable at this stage given the aromatics. If you have only a handful of bottles I would certainly wait another 5+ years to drink, but if you have many, I think it is worth checking in.

I stand by my comment yesterday that many of the 08s are quite enjoyable at this stage, even from classic producers. It depends on what you are looking for, obviously. If you want tertiary complexity, then no way. If you enjoy the youthful fruit, then you will find a beautiful perfume to many of these wines. In addition to the E. Grasso, the 2008 Bartolo Mascarello and Vajra BdV are outrageous IMO based on experience in past year.

Someone asked about 1999 - I think it depends but many of the wines are quite drinkable. Giacosa Rocche del Falletto is very nice, lacks tertiary complexity but is worth drinking now to catch the intense black fruit and the tannins are very smooth. 99 Vajra BdV is very much in the drinking window, very elegant wine as always. 99 Conterno Francia IMO needs more time, I find the Conterno Francia are very slow to show their cards - the 01 is showing nothing at this stage based on my experience for example.
Rob McLaughlin

User avatar
Edward H. Earles
Posts: 755
Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 8:07 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#35 Post by Edward H. Earles » December 28th, 2018, 11:58 am

Subu Ramachandran wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 9:22 am
This is a tough call...I would go with 12s...but just regular barolo's not the single crus.

08s are closed at the moment. The Monprivato I had a month back was fast asleep.
A 2008 Rivetto Barolo Serralunga D'Alba we drank a couple of months back was open for business, and delicious!

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#36 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am

I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#37 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am

Edward H. Earles wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:58 am
Subu Ramachandran wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 9:22 am
This is a tough call...I would go with 12s...but just regular barolo's not the single crus.

08s are closed at the moment. The Monprivato I had a month back was fast asleep.
A 2008 Rivetto Barolo Serralunga D'Alba we drank a couple of months back was open for business, and delicious!
I loved the 12 of this.

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#38 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 28th, 2018, 12:03 pm

How would 07 compare to 09? I see a few bottles of that Rivetto for reasonable prices.

User avatar
Keith A k e r s
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3546
Joined: June 2nd, 2009, 3:48 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#39 Post by Keith A k e r s » December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am
I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?
fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#40 Post by John Morris » December 28th, 2018, 1:02 pm

Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am
I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?
fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky
Except that a number of vintages of the Case Mate and Chinera in this decade have had marked new oak scents. I posted notes on them from blind tastings.
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

Rob M
Posts: 48
Joined: September 12th, 2017, 12:10 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#41 Post by Rob M » December 28th, 2018, 1:23 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 1:02 pm
Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am
I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?
fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky
Except that a number of vintages of the Case Mate and Chinera in this decade have had marked new oak scents. I posted notes on them from blind tastings.
I've read the many back and forths on here and elsewhere about this, but from my own tasting of the Grasso wines and visits to their cellar I just don't get it. I haven't tasted the 2011s you posted about a while back, but there's just no hint of new oak whatsoever IMO in, say, the 2008 I had last night, or the 2013s or 2014 I recently had in Piedmont. I hate oak in barolo but love the Grasso Gavarini and Casa Mate.

I see no reason for them to lie about their oak usage program (while new oak in Barolo is out of fashion, they certainly aren't hidding the barriques for the Runcot or the barbera, which I do not like), so if there's any new oak aromas you detect, it's probably either some minor oak from the scrapping of the barrels between uses (which, if it is there, seems to fade very quickly because I have never gotten it in the older vintages) or it's simply something else that you're confusing for new oak. A few weeks ago I had a traditional 2001 nebbiolo in a blind tasting I was convinced had tons of new oak.....but it did not, it was simply me being wrong in blind tasting as we all often are. I suspect the same thing happened in your tasting.
Rob McLaughlin

Michael_H
Posts: 21
Joined: December 28th, 2018, 10:29 am

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#42 Post by Michael_H » December 28th, 2018, 1:24 pm

New to the forum here and starting to get into the Piedmont myself. I visited the Piedmont this past spring and tasted quite a few of the new releases ('14) and found the quality to be all over the map. I'm super inexperienced right with anything other than the most recent releases and am trying to expand my knowledge and experiences with wines that are still available at retail. I recently popped open an '11 Brovia ca' mia and really enjoyed it. It was showing well right now but definitely benefited from some air.

I see a lot of discussion on Grasso in this thread - anyone have experience with his line of wines from '11? I can get the Chiniera, but am a but concerned by John's comment of new oak scents - this is something that I do not enjoy and try to avoid in Barolo.
Michael H endon

Doug Schulman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5033
Joined: October 21st, 2009, 9:42 am
Location: MA

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#43 Post by Doug Schulman » December 28th, 2018, 1:25 pm

Rob M wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:21 am
Speaking of the 2008s and Elio Grasso specifically, I opened a 2008 E. Grasso Gavarini Chiniera last night. Same deal as when I tasted it last about a year ago, it is gorgeously perfumed as many of the 08s are but remains quite tight on the palate. It is tannic but the tannins are elegant enough that it is quite drinkable and very enjoyable at this stage given the aromatics. If you have only a handful of bottles I would certainly wait another 5+ years to drink, but if you have many, I think it is worth checking in.
2007 Ginestra Casa Mate is ready to go. I was surprised to see someone saying so a few months ago, but I pulled one from storage and totally agreed. I'm going to get another one out soon. Obviously there's a long way to go before it becomes mature, but it's wide open and delicious right now.
ITB - retail sales and education

Doug Schulman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5033
Joined: October 21st, 2009, 9:42 am
Location: MA

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#44 Post by Doug Schulman » December 28th, 2018, 1:27 pm

Rob M wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 1:23 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 1:02 pm
Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm


fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky
Except that a number of vintages of the Case Mate and Chinera in this decade have had marked new oak scents. I posted notes on them from blind tastings.
I've read the many back and forths on here and elsewhere about this, but from my own tasting of the Grasso wines and visits to their cellar I just don't get it. I haven't tasted the 2011s you posted about a while back, but there's just no hint of new oak whatsoever IMO in, say, the 2008 I had last night, or the 2013s or 2014 I recently had in Piedmont. I hate oak in barolo but love the Grasso Gavarini and Casa Mate.
I've tasted these wines from '07 on, most of them several times, and I totally agree.

And yes, the Runcot is so oaky that I really don't care how long it takes to be ready to drink. I'll take the other bottlings over that every time.
ITB - retail sales and education

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#45 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 28th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am
I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?
fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky
I'm aware the runcot is more modern than the other cuvees.

Any experience on the 07 vs 09 vintages of either?

User avatar
John Morris
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16500
Joined: June 21st, 2009, 2:09 pm
Location: Gotham

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#46 Post by John Morris » December 28th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Rob M wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 1:23 pm
I've read the many back and forths on here and elsewhere about this, but from my own tasting of the Grasso wines and visits to their cellar I just don't get it. I haven't tasted the 2011s you posted about a while back, but there's just no hint of new oak whatsoever IMO in, say, the 2008 I had last night, or the 2013s or 2014 I recently had in Piedmont. I hate oak in barolo but love the Grasso Gavarini and Casa Mate.
It was the '11 and '12, I believe. (Don't have time to search for it.) Suffice it to say, they clearly showed a lot of new oak. This was a group tasting blindly.

The '13 when I tasted in a non-blind setting did not show the oak.
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

Doug Schulman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5033
Joined: October 21st, 2009, 9:42 am
Location: MA

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#47 Post by Doug Schulman » December 28th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 1:42 pm
Keith A k e r s wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:53 pm
Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 11:59 am
I will hold off on the grasso for now. Anyone have any opinions on how soon runcot is drinkable versus casa mate and chinera?
fyi, the runcot is unabashedly modern. They do the Casa Mate and Chinera as traditional, but the Runcot is extremely oaky
I'm aware the runcot is more modern than the other cuvees.

Any experience on the 07 vs 09 vintages of either?
Runcot I don't know because I don't really pay attention. As for the other two wines, I think the '07s were excellent, and a big notch above the '09s for my taste (not that the '09s weren't good). I haven't had an '09 in a while, so I don't know about current drinking.
ITB - retail sales and education

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#48 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 28th, 2018, 2:07 pm

I grabbed a few bottles of the 07 and 09 Rivetto for $35 a pop or something, we'll see how they drink. As far as Grasso goes, my understanding was that they didn't use any oak on the chinera and casa mate.

User avatar
Otto Forsberg
Posts: 772
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 4:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#49 Post by Otto Forsberg » December 29th, 2018, 3:24 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:
December 28th, 2018, 12:03 pm
How would 07 compare to 09? I see a few bottles of that Rivetto for reasonable prices.
On average I've seen 2009's as more approachable and showing less aging potential. However, all too often the wines also show some cooked fruit flavors and raisiny character instead of the fresher and more savory side of Nebbiolo as well.

2007's probably aren't going to be among the longest-lived vintages, since it was also a noticeably warm vintage, but it fared much better than 2009 and the wines show a bit more poise and freshness.

However, these are just general guidelines. Specifics always depend on the producer. I've always liked Rivetto style, but I wasn't particularly thrilled of their 2009's, even their top-tier Barolos.

Mich@el Ch@ng
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2728
Joined: March 31st, 2017, 9:57 pm

Re: Accessible Barolo Vintages

#50 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » December 29th, 2018, 3:53 am

Well, I will give them a shot and report back.

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”