Loire is dead at retail

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AlexS
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Loire is dead at retail

#1 Post by AlexS » December 26th, 2018, 8:09 am

I know there are a lot of great bottles out there but for retail its dead.

I was in Binnys today and its $15 for a regular appellation Loire from an average house, the entire Loire section was maybe 1 bottle, Bdx was maybe 200+ and Napa was 300+ there are just no loire wines for people to buy.

Even if you want to buy Loire its not there at Binnys, you have to seek it out
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#2 Post by GregT » December 26th, 2018, 8:13 am

"Loire is dead at the retail store I go to"
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#3 Post by A. So » December 26th, 2018, 8:18 am

GregT wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:13 am
"Loire is dead at the retail store I go to"
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#4 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 26th, 2018, 8:21 am

Dude. Loire is dead ‘cause Fu don’t touch it, not even on IG. The only bottle of Loire he owns he is saving for me.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#5 Post by A. So » December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:21 am
Dude. Loire is dead ‘cause Fu don’t touch it, not even on IG. The only bottle of Loire he owns he is saving for me.
Cccccccccccccccombo breaker
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#6 Post by Howard Cooper » December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am

How about your local supermarket? Do they have any Baudry? If not, it means Nobody likes Baudry and it cannot sell.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#7 Post by AlexS » December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am

A. So wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:21 am
Dude. Loire is dead ‘cause Fu don’t touch it, not even on IG. The only bottle of Loire he owns he is saving for me.
Cccccccccccccccombo breaker
Of course it’s Alfert lol.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#8 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 26th, 2018, 8:25 am

Oops! I have my head in the clouds, so everyone tells me.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#9 Post by Russell Faulkner » December 26th, 2018, 8:27 am

I went to my local supermarket today and they had zero bottles of wine from the Loire. So I can confirm it’s completely dead at retail internationally.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#10 Post by Brad Kane » December 26th, 2018, 8:29 am

I'd say Loire sweet wines are dead, unfortunately. Really tough to find anything other than Huet 1ere Trie, Foreau Reserve, Baumard QDC, Moulin Touchas CDL or the occasional library release from Pinon these days. I know a lot of producers that are in the market make dessert wines, but the importers just aren't bringing them in.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#11 Post by Jay Miller » December 26th, 2018, 8:32 am

AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:09 am
I know there are a lot of great bottles out there but for retail its dead.

I was in Binnys today and its $15 for a regular appellation Loire from an average house, the entire Loire section was maybe 1 bottle, Bdx was maybe 200+ and Napa was 300+ there are just no loire wines for people to buy.

Even if you want to buy Loire its not there at Binnys, you have to seek it out
lol, well played.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#12 Post by AlexS » December 26th, 2018, 8:34 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:25 am
Oops! I have my head in the clouds, so everyone tells me.
It's ok champ -- you're always #1 in my book!
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#13 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 26th, 2018, 8:36 am

AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:34 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:25 am
Oops! I have my head in the clouds, so everyone tells me.
It's ok champ -- you're always #1 in my book!
My mom, and my wife and my Secretary, use the term “special”. Either works for me.

PS. Avoid 2015 Plouzeau. They suck. ;)

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#14 Post by Joseph MR » December 26th, 2018, 9:04 am

If Huet sec was still $22 a bottle, it would move faster!
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#15 Post by c fu » December 26th, 2018, 9:25 am

AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am
A. So wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:23 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:21 am
Dude. Loire is dead ‘cause Fu don’t touch it, not even on IG. The only bottle of Loire he owns he is saving for me.
Cccccccccccccccombo breaker
Of course it’s Alfert lol.
What! I’m basically a Loire master. Just trying to keep prices down by not talking about it

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#16 Post by BrianMarshall » December 26th, 2018, 9:31 am

The walrus was... the Loire???
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#17 Post by Chris Seiber » December 26th, 2018, 9:37 am

All joking and snark aside, I'd be curious what demand is like for Loire reds and whites these days. It's obviously a very small category in the wine retail world, but I'm curious if interest/demand is growing or shrinking. I definitely don't think it's enjoying any sort of boom right now, but beyond that, I don't have a feel for it.

Just speaking for myself personally, my interest in the reds is steady at a lowish level and declining on the whites due a rash of disappointing or premoxed Huets and Chidaines in the last couple of years. I opened a premoxed 2014 Huet Le Haut Lieu Sec a few weeks ago. Maybe I just need to discover some different white producers there.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#18 Post by Jayson Cohen » December 26th, 2018, 10:07 am

Jay Miller wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:32 am
AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:09 am
I know there are a lot of great bottles out there but for retail its dead.

I was in Binnys today and its $15 for a regular appellation Loire from an average house, the entire Loire section was maybe 1 bottle, Bdx was maybe 200+ and Napa was 300+ there are just no loire wines for people to buy.

Even if you want to buy Loire its not there at Binnys, you have to seek it out
lol, well played.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#19 Post by jcoley3 » December 26th, 2018, 10:14 am

Chris Seiber wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 9:37 am
All joking and snark aside, I'd be curious what demand is like for Loire reds and whites these days. It's obviously a very small category in the wine retail world, but I'm curious if interest/demand is growing or shrinking. I definitely don't think it's enjoying any sort of boom right now, but beyond that, I don't have a feel for it.

Just speaking for myself personally, my interest in the reds is steady at a lowish level and declining on the whites due a rash of disappointing or premoxed Huets and Chidaines in the last couple of years. I opened a premoxed 2014 Huet Le Haut Lieu Sec a few weeks ago. Maybe I just need to discover some different white producers there.
My local experience is that it has grown a lot in the past five years, driven by younger wine consumers. I'm speaking only for the shop I work, of course.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#20 Post by Jayson Cohen » December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am

Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#21 Post by c fu » December 26th, 2018, 10:44 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am
Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.
You can probably trade 8 cases of huet for O r Rousseau chambertin with the right pair of eyes
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#22 Post by Jim Brennan » December 26th, 2018, 10:52 am

Germany is dead at retail too.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#23 Post by lleichtman » December 26th, 2018, 11:17 am

AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:09 am
I know there are a lot of great bottles out there but for retail its dead.

I was in Binnys today and its $15 for a regular appellation Loire from an average house, the entire Loire section was maybe 1 bottle, Bdx was maybe 200+ and Napa was 300+ there are just no loire wines for people to buy.

Even if you want to buy Loire its not there at Binnys, you have to seek it out
Why is Binny's the be all and end all of wine shopping? Just because it's the biggest in Chicago area? Just like with Burgundy, Specs in Houston has a large selection of Loire wines including SB, PN, and Chinon.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#24 Post by Jay Miller » December 26th, 2018, 11:22 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am
Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.
Huet is only one letter away from Hunt.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#25 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 26th, 2018, 11:24 am

And Hurt

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#26 Post by Howard Cooper » December 26th, 2018, 11:40 am

Is Clos Rougeard available at Binnys?
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#27 Post by AlexS » December 26th, 2018, 11:43 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 11:40 am
Is Clos Rougeard available at Binnys?
Doesn’t Binnys stock it next to the Burgundy and MacDonald?
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#28 Post by Maxwell A. » December 26th, 2018, 12:46 pm

A. So wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:18 am
GregT wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 8:13 am
"Loire is dead at the retail store I go to"
[winner.gif]
The selection of Loire wines varies greatly at different Binny's locations. There are other good wine stores in the Chicago area other than Binny's that have nice Loire selections.

Loire wines doesn't seem to be one of the most popular categories with the general public. This doesn't help.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#29 Post by Scott Brunson » December 26th, 2018, 12:57 pm

AlexS wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 11:43 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 11:40 am
Is Clos Rougeard available at Binnys?
Doesn’t Binnys stock it next to the Burgundy and MacDonald?
bout time somebody finally got there
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#30 Post by Gordon Fitz » December 26th, 2018, 1:33 pm

The wine manager at our LWS says the Chenin Blancs particularly Vouvray have been selling briskly during the holidays. He keeps most of them priced below $22.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#31 Post by Marc Frontario » December 26th, 2018, 6:12 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am
Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.

Jayson...don't let Alfert snow u!!! He doesn't even buy the only chinon we have here in Bore'lando, while I have already been thru a case!
Find something you love....and let it kill u....Charles Bukowski
I cannot escape the ravages of this man....R.Alfert

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#32 Post by Jayson Cohen » December 26th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Marc Frontario wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 6:12 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am
Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.

Jayson...don't let Alfert snow u!!! He doesn't even buy the only chinon we have here in Bore'lando, while I have already been thru a case!
So you are saying you want in? On the cabal? We have a flexible membership policy if you are willing to dedicate your life to cornering the US Chinon market.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#33 Post by Bret Heiar » December 26th, 2018, 6:47 pm

Loire is red hot, it is the number 1 selling category at Anker. In all fairness, the people buying a lot of Loire, aren't really shopping at Binny's.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#34 Post by Jim Brennan » December 26th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Bret Heiar wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 6:47 pm
Loire is red hot, it is the number 1 selling category at Anker. In all fairness, the people buying a lot of Loire, aren't really shopping at Binny's.
That's awesome, but where are folks going for retail options in Chicago?

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#35 Post by Mel Knox » December 26th, 2018, 7:37 pm

Loire chenin blanc has never been big bit Loire sauv blanc is hot. Muscadet is making a comeback. Red Saumur is bigger than ever—not saying a lot.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#36 Post by Gray G » December 26th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Loire? dead?, so much wine, so little time
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#37 Post by RichardFlack » December 26th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Not sure I’d say Sancerre and Pouilly Fume are exactly hot but from unscientific observation they do seem to be moving well through our local Monopolista, including some upper mid range wines. I also saw Dagenau on one agents email a few months ago.
I’d agree Voyvray may have a bit of an image problem in the general market. (Contrast with South African Chenin which is hot right now).

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#38 Post by Bret Heiar » December 26th, 2018, 8:06 pm

Vinic Wines
Red and White
Perman Wine

etc.etc
Not to mention Pastorial, Knightsbridge, Lush, Anderson, HDH, Flickengers, Vin Chicago, Que Syrah, etc , there are plenty of thoughtful wine shops

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#39 Post by Steve Brickley » December 26th, 2018, 10:13 pm

Well I guess I don’t follow directions well. In my cellar 15 cases that include Huet, Chidaine, Baudry, Breton, Rougeard, Cotat, Couly-Dutheil, Lucien Crochet, Foreau, Joguet, Mellot, Pepiere, Raffault, Vacheron and others. Some bought retail some “mail-order.” Love Chinon, Sancerre. Francois Cotat’s Sancerre Chavignol Rose is my favorite rose.
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#40 Post by Marc Frontario » December 26th, 2018, 11:06 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 6:26 pm
Marc Frontario wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 6:12 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 10:17 am
Caught. Rougeard aside, it’s dead because Alfert and a few of us NY market makers / speculators have formed a secret cabal. (Oops, did I let it slip? Sorry about that.) We are hunting them down and hoarding them all, looking to corner the market for the big score to come. Get ready for the insta onslaught. (I’m currently recruiting 20-something hipstas, NYC somms, and NBA stars to do the leg work. But keep that on the DL.)

I have about 8-9 cases of Huet alone and am looking forward to them all going Rousseau Chambertin on me.

Jayson...don't let Alfert snow u!!! He doesn't even buy the only chinon we have here in Bore'lando, while I have already been thru a case!
So you are saying you want in? On the cabal? We have a flexible membership policy if you are willing to dedicate your life to cornering the US Chinon market.
I'm in brother! grouphug
Is there a hazing process? Like do I have to drink vile overripe cali cab franc or one of Alfert's South American One Off's to prove my commitment?
Find something you love....and let it kill u....Charles Bukowski
I cannot escape the ravages of this man....R.Alfert

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#41 Post by Richard T r i m p i » December 27th, 2018, 6:20 am

Marc Frontario wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 6:12 pm
Jayson...don't let Alfert snow u!!! He doesn't even buy the only chinon we have here in Bore'lando, while I have already been thru a case!
Scribble a shelf-talker with something like: "The next Chloe Rouguard", and Alfert will back up the truck.

RT

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#42 Post by Michae1 P0wers » December 27th, 2018, 6:33 am

In the thread which gave rise to this thread, I commented that a wide variety of Burgundy was available at retail in my market. At the time I contemplated how many fewer Loire wines I see. Strangely things like Baudry I never see, despite it being probably the most widely available Loire red producer from what I see online. Joguet and Breton I see at one or two places locally, but overall Loire is not a well-represented category in my market. That's not surprising though; if asked how much of the US fine wine market, in dollars or bottles, the Loire makes up, as compared to Burgundy, I'd imagine far less. It's never had the prestige (sweet whites in the distant past aside). Personally I really like Loire reds and whites and they make up a very large part of my cellar. CT shows me I still have more Burgundy than Loire but that's all from several years ago prior to recent Burgundy price escalations. While I wish the Loire producers well, I'm also selfishly fine with the fact that Loire wines remain affordable. Not many wines in Burgundy fall into my regular consumption price range, but many Loire wines do.

Overall though the general profile of Loire reds still isn't what most people know or want, either casual consumers or collectors. The wines aren't big; they tend to be red-fruited and lithe and they have green or vegetal notes. I love that. I also love that they are approachable young and age very (astonishingly?) well, with little in the way of a dumb period. For whites I assume that the variety of styles can make it difficult for consumers to understand. The more popular white producers seem to be escalating prices with some success though, which speaks to increased interest. Similarly, I'd imagine that general interest in natural wines and wines that aren't as "big" has helped both Loire reds and whites. If that grows or holds steady it should bode well for Loire sales into the future.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#43 Post by Marc Frontario » December 27th, 2018, 7:25 am

Michae1 P0wers wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 6:33 am
The wines aren't big; they tend to be red-fruited and lithe and they have green or vegetal notes. I love that. I also love that they are approachable young and age very (astonishingly?) well, with little in the way of a dumb period.
Love that too
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Julian Marshall
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#44 Post by Julian Marshall » December 27th, 2018, 8:17 am

I'm sure this won't come as a surprise, but Loire wines are pretty dodo-like over here too. If the retail market is more diverse than it used to be, most wine is still sold in large hypermarkets. But if you want to buy Loire wines, you have to look online or find a good wine merchant - there's no chance of stumbling on some whilst doing the shopping, apart from standard Muscadet or something similar.

Fine wine in general has been under the cosh for many years because of rising prices, but there is I think an obvious reason for the lack of interest in the Loire: nobody writes about it. Apart from Chris Kissack and the occasional article in la RVF over here, there doesn't seem to be much coverage. I don't know about the WS, but TWA couldn't care less and Vinous is no better. All of which is good news for those who like the wines, but a little more coverage would not go amiss - at least we would know more about what we're buying.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#45 Post by AlexS » December 27th, 2018, 8:34 am

We actually have somewhat decent Loire representation at a few of the wine shops in Milwaukee...by "decent," I mean they'll actually have 4-5 different bottles on hand, usually a couple reds & whites, although rarely anything on the sweeter side. As implied in the OP though, price points are usually in $15ish range, which is right where local consumers could be convinced into trying something "different" vs. what they usually buy.

Loire is category where it really helps to make friends with folks ITB, especially peeps at boutique stores and non-mega distro peeps who will keep you updated on portfolios, which often include wines you otherwise might not have ever even known could be made available for purchase.
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S teve R edenbaugh
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#46 Post by S teve R edenbaugh » December 27th, 2018, 10:02 am

My local Binnys has a shitload of Loire...30-40 Sancerre...more chenin than I want...lots more red Loire than I used to see...Quincy, Sauvenierres, 10-15 Muscadet. I can always find something to drink at Binnys...and the markups are only 30-40 per cent on the individual bottle...not cases. Not much knowledgable wine assistance, but if you know what you're looking for, beats the national chains. And you don't have to make nice and nod approvingly with the "nuts" and orange-heads at the geeky little shops.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#47 Post by bob parsons alberta » February 11th, 2019, 6:23 pm

No Loire red problems up here in Alberta. Some nice selection on the shelf downtown.

Yup, time for another Chinon! I have opened the 2013 Noblaie Domaine Chinon. The cork is a tad dried out but I did store well. $26 Cdn I guess and 12.5% alc.
Color is a medium plum with just a hint of bricking.
Nose has nice violets and raspberry..quite inviting. Still seems fresh, some blueberry from across the table.
Initial entry thought is drinking nicely right now. Bravo Noblaie! Medium bodied, good acidity, has held up well.Dark fruits, no greeness, long finish, soft tannins, blackberry and blueberry. Many might not guess Cab Franc. Stay tuned for day 2 forumites.

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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#48 Post by Dan Kravitz » February 11th, 2019, 6:28 pm

to C. Fu:

Loire is overrated!

Actually, it's not. And I posted on one just a few days ago. And I'm actively looking to add Loire to my company portfolio, which currently has none.

Don't stay tuned, because even if I do you won't read about it here!

OTOH, I encourage everybody on this board to keep reading and posting.

Beset regards,

Dan Kravitz
swillmaster - ITB

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Craig G
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#49 Post by Craig G » February 11th, 2019, 7:00 pm

Chloe Rougeard?
“You need to look down to the bottom shelf where they keep the Fighting Cock” — Corey N.

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Paul McCourt
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Re: Loire is dead at retail

#50 Post by Paul McCourt » February 11th, 2019, 7:07 pm

Joseph MR wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 9:04 am
If Huet sec was still $22 a bottle, it would move faster!
Those were the days. I used to buy stupid amounts of Huet.

Funny, but I buy lots and lots of Loire whites but almost never any red. Never really noticed that before.
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