What an amazing comparision to the lean, red-fruited 2008 Levet that I just finished. This wine is big, bold, in your face, ripe and brash dark fruits, and while young, I would not call it grapey/primary. Has a lot of savory, stoney, briney, meaty notes as well. I may go so far as saying that this is the best Iles Feray that I have had, and more going on than the 2015. Curious to follow this wine tonight and tomorrow to see if it settles down. It is smack-out delicious, but sheez, almost too much stimulation and deliciousness for this simple country folk. Serve with food, like some gamey lamb. Lots of structure, crisp acid, chalky but sweet tannins. This wine is enjoyable but really needs a few years, and has the structure to go long. I’m not sure I can handle a second glass, but then again, I did start with 2 glasses of Levet, my soulmate.
Sounds great. Sadly I don’t have any of the 2016. I have absolutely loved the 2015, and have a few bottles left. I actually have at least one bottle of every vantage going back to 2009, and recent 2010s have been holding up very well. For the most part these make me not even think about opening the St. Joseph when it’s young.
Gonon clearly deserves its (newly) exulted status and the St Joseph may be worth the 3 figures it’s getting at auction… But, but, wine-searcher pro shows only one outfit in the entire USA with the 16 Iles Feray at the moment. And for $54!!! I got the ‘14 for like $24.
Ha, my allocation did get cut to six for the 2015 vintage and beyond, after years of cheap case quantity! If someone is flipping this, though, they are desperate, not #realballas
I don’t understand this, Charlie. Why should Kermit not price the wines consistent with supply and demand? I know that some would like there to be room in the price such that they can acquire the wines and then sell or trade them for gain, but an importer, which actually has time and capital invested (unlike a flipper), has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to facilitate that activity.
Not Charlie, but for me, when an importer drastically raises prices precipitously I dislike it because the pricing no longer resembles what the producer intended, because it distorts the market overall, and because it prices people out of what were once accessible wines. Admittedly much of that is because it means I get priced out of wines I like, but I also dislike the fact that Gonon probably sells this wine for twelve euros and an importer sells it for fifty dollars. It seems that an importer should owe their producer a duty to stay true to their pricing scheme. Many industries (including some branches of the alcohol industry) mandate how much a product can be marked up.
But if one is fine with an importer marking up to whatever the market will bear, I don’t understand why that should be any different for individual reselling the wine. A flipper has time and capital invested in the wine as well; less time and less capital, but also makes less profit. I have neither the time nor the interest for flipping wine, but if one accepts unfettered pricing by an importer I’m not sure I understand why it’s different for an individual. If you’re going to say, “whatever price people will pay is fine,” then why does that stop at the flipper?
I have mixed feelings on this. Kermit is notorious for pushing pricing on limited, in demand wines as far as it will go. If you told me that he’s going back to the producer, and paying proportionally more as a result, I’d agree 100%. I doubt that’s happening (though I don’t get to see KL’s books). OTOH, KL brings in lots of interesting lower priced wines, doing a service for both those producers, and us customers. So I have a love/hate relationship with them.
Though it’s more “hate” at the moment, given that one retail shop I’ve bought through for years changed ownership this year, and Kermit is refusing to honor the decades-long allocations to the shop. So essentially a large group of loyal Kermit customers has been cut off from buying a subset of allocated wines. Fortunately, Kermit had been raising the prices so much every year that I was pretty much priced out anyway, so I guess I should be happy they made it easy not to have to make the choice not to buy
Michael, regarding your first point above, I believe that experience has shown that if an importer does this with a wine such as Gonon, Allemand, etc., the flippers are the ones who profit. I don’t believe that there should be any expectation for flippers to have this opportunity.
Regarding your second point, I fully agree. Where I have the problem is when consumers who look to sell or trade wine for gain complain about importer pricing. Indeed, we would all like to profit with almost no investment of time or capital, but there should be no expectation of such opportunities.
Flippers-
a)people who buy & sell wine but is not their main profession.
b) have no physical retail space/do not take credit cards
c) makes money selling wine - typically charges people more than standard release pricing for sought after wine.
d) typically does not seek out producers, but buys from a company so they can resell the wine they buy.
Martin Steinley -
a) some one who buys and sell wine but is not his main profession.
b) has no physical retail space/does not take credit cards for payments
c) make money off wine - typically charges people more than standard release pricing for sought after wine
d) doesn’t seek out producers, just pays another company for the wine that they sell.
e) When Todd tells Martin he can’t solicit wine sales on the board without being a berserkerbusiness. Martin accuses todd of a “thinly veiled attempt to generate income” instead of it being a standard we’ve had since the forum started. (could have sworn you said you’d stop posting because of this)
f) on a high horse
Only see two real differences here.
A little background
Martin has his undies in a knot because he is angry I wanted to trade some 2015 Allemand Reynard for 2010 Allemand Reynard on commerce corner. He said I was flipping wine he sold to me and he doesn’t sell to flippers.
He sold me one bottle of 2015 Allemand Reynard that had yet to ship from him. His one bottle comprised of all less than 5% of the 2015 Allemand Reynard I had in hand in my cellar. I’ve already consumed / opened more 15 allemand Reynard with friends than the one bottle he sold me.
Martin thinks trading a wine and flipping a wine are the exact same thing. Can’t fix stupid, just gotta let it wander around bumping its head in walls.
While you boys are bitch-fighting, I’m relaxing with another glass of this Iles Feray. Have had it under coravin. Has settled down a bit, but still quite a decadent drink, in a classic but ripe sorta way. Rocks and fruit.
As an initial matter, it seems that you called out yourself.
You came to me to cherry pick (to facilitate your “look at me” wine consuming habits). I indulged you a bit. Ultimately, I sent out an offer for 2015 Allemand, you requested some, you did not receive an allocation promptly and came groveling for some. I allocated you a couple of bottles and within days saw you trading Reynard on Commerce Corner. Did that piss me off? Yes. (You haven’t clue what is involved to secure and maintain a good allocation of the likes of Allemand, and the agonizing involved in divvying up such allocations among good customers who intend to enjoy the wine.) Despite that, I held the wine over the summer and shipped to you when you requested. Neither Kermit Lynch, nor I, nor anyone else runs a wine business for your profit and when you bitch about pricing not being such that you can do so, I am going to address it (without calling you out).
As indicated above, you seem to have no clue about my business:
a) Yes, I am a busy full-time attorney, but I have been running my wine business on the side for approximately ten years.
b) I have a fully insulated warehouse that is kept at 55 degrees and 70% humidity with approximately $500K of inventory. I have no retail space, nor am I able to be present in such a space, so I sell via the internet only, as many businesses do in this age. Also, I have no website due to time constraints.
c) I believe that my prices are generally among the lowest in the U.S. Please provide examples to support your contrary assertion. I do not take credit cards to avoid the related fees, which enables me to keep margins lower, and there are many easy, cost-free alternatives to pay.
d) I haven’t a clue what you are talking about here. I buy wines wholesale from approximately 20 different importers and distributors and sell them as a retailer. I believe that is what retailers do.
e) Ah, yes, Todd: If you don’t state in your tasting notes that you sell the wine, you are shilling. Oh, wait, if you state in your tasting notes that you sell the wine, you are soliciting.
f) Not sure what your point is here.
In the ten years of running my wine business, I have had issues with three people, two of whom are you and one of your close pals who you promote on this board and who mislead me in an effort to avoid paying sales tax (when he was caught, he sent me the sales tax that was due). As to your “undies in a knot” and “can’t fix stupid” comments, I will only say that I believe that you are better than that.
Dude. If no one else is going to object to your post just because you’re a moderator or for other reasons, besides Martin himself, then I will. Martin isn’t a perfect poster and I don’t agree with the totality of his comment on flippers (you could plausibly argue that flippers do invest some modicum of time/capital, though it’s laughable to compare those efforts to those of a longstanding importer like Kermit Lynch). However, he raised some very valid points that were not explicitly directed towards you, and that did not air the dirty laundry that you started off with. Whatever the beef that you and Martin have with each other, it’s totally inappropriate of you to take that tone, and start the process of publicizing what in the end is a private conflict between you and him. “Can’t fix stupid”, “undies in a knot” – seriously?
In only the few years I’ve been on here, I’ve seen already quite a few posters leave after petty arguments like this, and to see a moderator involve himself in a dispute like this is frankly disappointing. Martin, again, hasn’t been perfect, but he’s contributed a lot to this board and to my own personal knowledge of Beaujolais and Burgundy, and he’s always disclosed his own personal interests, which is perhaps more than I can say of others on this forum.
Where I have the problem is when consumers who look to sell or trade wine for gain complain about importer pricing. Indeed, we would all like to profit with almost no investment of time or capital, but there should be no expectation of such opportunities.
You may see it different Fred and you’re welcome to your opinion except they were explicitly directed toward me. Merely leaving out my name is a technicality. Considering I was the one he originally replied to, how is that not explicitly directing it to me? If he wants to bring our disagreement out into the public with an attack on me, I’m more than happy to fill in the blanks. I’m not going to cower away from someone that I and the others in charge of the board have issues with. Cowardly responses deserve strong rebuke.
Charlie, I replied to your post, without saying anything about your behaviors, never intending to burden this board with our personal business dealings. However, clearly you felt uncomfortable enough about those matters to launch into the diatribe that you did. “Cowardly?” Have you drunk too much?
RE A-F: I think I have a pretty good idea how your business works. Despite what you think, you’re not a unique special flower. You can give yourself all the reasoning in the world to think you’re better than a private person selling wine. But in the end, you run a hobby business. You invest in nothing more than inventory and storage space. You source from the work of others. Someone flipping wine in the aggregate would also have to cultivate relationships with those that provide wine to them to keep the rarities flowing (shoot, wouldn’t I know as a cherry picker? ). For some reason because you have a license to sell wine, you feel you can put yourself in the same breath as the books you buy from.
And if you couldn’t get any more obnoxious, you decide to air out grievances with a good friend of mine all stemming from an outrageously errant belief that trading wine (same wine to boot, just a different vintage) is the equivalent of flipping (economics 101 anyone?).
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). For some reason because you have a license to sell wine, you feel you can put yourself in the same breath as the books you buy from.