Critic wines v drinkers wines

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Alan Eden
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2661
Joined: February 9th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Critic wines v drinkers wines

#1 Post by Alan Eden » December 4th, 2018, 6:30 pm

I buy a pretty wide range of US wines from $10-$150 ish, mostly in the middle.

I share a lot of my wine drinking with non wine geek friends, they enjoy it but have no idea or interest in all the back stories. It is very interesting that almost without exception price has no bearing on their opinion's, now yes i will qualify that an expensive good bottle is generally liked and the most revered have been the highest priced ( except Bedrock Exposition ) but many higher end wines get knocked down for not being enjoyable.

I am just watching Somm 3 and it starts with Fred's exact description of a 95 Guigal Cote Rotie, impressive as that is it led me to start thinking that so much of what we discuss here and how we approach wine is about the breakdown of the wine, All the tasting qualities we discuss every post. Do we to some degree now breakdown wine too much ? do you think of it as a tasting experience or purely simple wine experience ?

I know im talking about myself when i feel that it would be nice to get back to just wine drinking as a simple basic pleasure and buy the bottles that i enjoy without any thought to vineyard. maker, age or vintage or varietal etc. I am well aware that i chase wines as much as anyone and I just dont think you can ever turn off being a wine geek once you get the bug but boy wouldnt it be nice to do so.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

User avatar
Scott Fitzgerald
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2536
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#2 Post by Scott Fitzgerald » December 4th, 2018, 6:35 pm

Curious...what are some of the high-end wines your non-wine geek wines didn't like?
CT: BigTex22

User avatar
larry schaffer
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 6982
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 9:26 am
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, CA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#3 Post by larry schaffer » December 4th, 2018, 6:39 pm

If I had to guess, most of the 'higher priced' wines that your non wine friends do not enjoy are probably earthy or tannic or bitter or acidic - or all of the above. As Scott asked, it'd be great to get some clarification from you.

There's a reason that Meiomi and The Prisoner do as well as they do - they are very very smooth wines that contain some RS that will cover up any bitterness in the wine and pop the fruit. THAT is what most non wine drinkers seem to be drawn to.

Cheers.
larry schaffer
tercero wines

User avatar
Scott Fitzgerald
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2536
Joined: March 12th, 2013, 7:32 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#4 Post by Scott Fitzgerald » December 4th, 2018, 6:41 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 6:39 pm
There's a reason that Meiomi and The Prisoner do as well as they do - they are very very smooth wines that contain some RS that will cover up any bitterness in the wine and pop the fruit. THAT is what most non wine drinkers seem to be drawn to.

Cheers.
And the oak.
CT: BigTex22

User avatar
larry schaffer
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 6982
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 9:26 am
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, CA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#5 Post by larry schaffer » December 4th, 2018, 6:46 pm

Oh yes . . . the OAK!!!
larry schaffer
tercero wines

User avatar
Alan Eden
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2661
Joined: February 9th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#6 Post by Alan Eden » December 4th, 2018, 6:47 pm

Young cabs are generally not well received, yet older cabs are

When other people bring wines like Prisoner or Melomi into our group they are not that well liked they always use variations of cloying.

Ive brought in a fabulous aged Trocken that went down like a wedgie, one that everyone loves is Kosta Browne, Saxum is also popular
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

User avatar
Alan Eden
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2661
Joined: February 9th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#7 Post by Alan Eden » December 4th, 2018, 6:49 pm

Young Syrahs are way more popular than young cabs
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

User avatar
larry schaffer
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 6982
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 9:26 am
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, CA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#8 Post by larry schaffer » December 4th, 2018, 6:51 pm

Alan,

What information is provided the group when pouring? Do you or does anyone else let folks know what is 'highly rated'? If so this could certainly skew folks and what they 'like' . . .

Cheers.
larry schaffer
tercero wines

User avatar
John Glas
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 967
Joined: January 14th, 2010, 9:54 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#9 Post by John Glas » December 4th, 2018, 6:54 pm

There's a reason that Meiomi and The Prisoner do as well as they do - they are very very smooth wines that contain some RS that will cover up any bitterness in the wine and pop the fruit. THAT is what most non wine drinkers seem to be drawn to.
Don't forget the marketing!
www.twincitieswinetasting.com

User avatar
Alan Eden
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2661
Joined: February 9th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#10 Post by Alan Eden » December 4th, 2018, 7:06 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 6:51 pm
Alan,

What information is provided the group when pouring? Do you or does anyone else let folks know what is 'highly rated'? If so this could certainly skew folks and what they 'like' . . .

Cheers.
I know but they initially are given the wine blind, its a given because im going to drink it myself that its not going to be Yellow tail but after that they have no idea of varietal. Surprisingly they get the varietal correct more often than not
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3102
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#11 Post by Wes Barton » December 5th, 2018, 12:24 am

It does seem a bit forced to me when wine geeks try to enjoy wines made to age way too young. It seems like a step in the learning curve. Wines that are interesting and complex, have some buzz. A sense of sophistication and exclusiveness getting on waitlists to acquire, then excitedly consume. I've seen many people move through that (to some degree, at least) once they experience great mature wines and get some guidance in how/where to buy them.

There's quite a bit to learn and experience from tasting too young wines. But, they can also get tiring quickly in a drinking situation. Wines can taste well, but not drink well. Young wines can be tedious or just over-all unpleasant. It shouldn't be a surprise non-geeks wouldn't enjoy drinking some of these highly rated wines when they aren't ready.

But, they are plenty of geek-friendly wines out there that do drink well young, and appeal to non-geeks.
ITB - Useless lackey

User avatar
Jason T
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1283
Joined: June 8th, 2014, 7:45 am
Location: New Orleans

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#12 Post by Jason T » December 5th, 2018, 2:20 am

Something similar I experience is “people who don’t know any better, (but probably should)”. I typically like more mature wines. My wife’s family is very much into wine, but doesn’t discriminate.

I’ve helped her to understand the benefits; not so much of “aging to maturity” (as that’s a preference) but of giving a wine the proper chance for its various components to, if not integrate, at least be in balance. Which applies to both geeks and non geeks - drinking a wine when it’s “in its window” is just better for everyone.

Her family hasn’t bothered to grasp this and it leads to things like wanting to open tons of 2016 Sonoma Pinot Noir for Thanksgiving, and 2015 Howell Mountain Cab and Petite Sirah in magnums for Christmas. We tried to help them understand that these were wines that would benefit from a bit more time, to which we heard “we could all be gone tomorrow”.

Sure. Except I will be here tomorrow, sans tastebuds, after pounding tannin milkshakes.
J@son Tr@ughber

Steve Slatcher
Posts: 182
Joined: July 24th, 2010, 2:17 pm

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#13 Post by Steve Slatcher » December 5th, 2018, 2:30 am

Alan Eden wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 6:30 pm
Do we to some degree now breakdown wine too much ? do you think of it as a tasting experience or purely simple wine experience ?

I know im talking about myself when i feel that it would be nice to get back to just wine drinking as a simple basic pleasure and buy the bottles that i enjoy without any thought to vineyard. maker, age or vintage or varietal etc. I am well aware that i chase wines as much as anyone and I just dont think you can ever turn off being a wine geek once you get the bug but boy wouldnt it be nice to do so.
More and more, I am just buying the wines I like, and they often turn out to be not so expensive - though they still cost more than the general public would normally pay! So in that sense I have pretty much turned off being a wine geek, though I can still be wine-geeky in other ways.

But I don't think my wine experience is a simple one. It is still in many ways a tasting experience. But in practice it is hard for anyone to separate that from the physical environment, the food, who you are drinking the wine with, where you were when you drank it last etc, etc. The complexity of wine is a lot more than the taste of the liquid in the glass - everything else also impacts on the experience. If you sit alone in a white odour-free laboratory to taste your wine double-blind, THAT is the simple wine experience.

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14747
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#14 Post by Howard Cooper » December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am

If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

User avatar
T Fletcher
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 279
Joined: October 31st, 2011, 11:05 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#15 Post by T Fletcher » December 5th, 2018, 10:49 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
You'd think so, right!?

Annually, a large group of couples (15-20 or so) get together to have a "wine party." Mind you, 90% of the attendees are non-geeks but most everybody drinks wine regularly. Every couple brings two bottles of the same red wine. One bottle is brown-bagged and opened for tasting. Everyone tastes and votes for their favorite based solely on what is most enjoyable to his/her own palate. The owner of the wine receiving the most votes takes everyone's second bottle home.

Last year, I brought an Alto Moncayo (can't recall the vintage) and it won by a landslide. I knew my audience. This year, I brought a 2015 Geyserville. Want to guess how many votes it got? Zero. Talking with folks after we unveiled the wines from the brown bags, most people said it smelled nice and they enjoyed it, but they preferred something else. It happened to be one of two Zinfandel blends. The overall majority were Cabs and Pinots. The winner was the 2016 Educated Guess Cabernet. Perfectly fine and well-crafted $20 Cabernet but nothing there that would "wow" me.

In larger-group settings like this, where the consumption of wine is very informal, I've pretty much given up on trying to impart logic and my understanding of well-made wine on the masses (no votes on this Geyserville pretty much sealed that for me). I've taken a small group of couples from this same large group and structured a more formal "tasting/education" session and it was much more well received. I also have given up on trying to conform others who just don't care as much about the hobby, but I did that very early on in my wine-life.
Trent Fletcher
CT: tcufletch

User avatar
Michael Martin
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5881
Joined: August 28th, 2010, 3:35 pm
Location: Rocky Mountain High

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#16 Post by Michael Martin » December 5th, 2018, 10:54 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Bedrock Old Vine
Posted without comment.

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14747
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#17 Post by Howard Cooper » December 5th, 2018, 10:58 am

T Fletcher wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:49 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
You'd think so, right!?

Annually, a large group of couples (15-20 or so) get together to have a "wine party." Mind you, 90% of the attendees are non-geeks but most everybody drinks wine regularly. Every couple brings two bottles of the same red wine. One bottle is brown-bagged and opened for tasting. Everyone tastes and votes for their favorite based solely on what is most enjoyable to his/her own palate. The owner of the wine receiving the most votes takes everyone's second bottle home.

Last year, I brought an Alto Moncayo (can't recall the vintage) and it won by a landslide. I knew my audience. This year, I brought a 2015 Geyserville. Want to guess how many votes it got? Zero. Talking with folks after we unveiled the wines from the brown bags, most people said it smelled nice and they enjoyed it, but they preferred something else. It happened to be one of two Zinfandel blends. The overall majority were Cabs and Pinots. The winner was the 2016 Educated Guess Cabernet. Perfectly fine and well-crafted $20 Cabernet but nothing there that would "wow" me.

In larger-group settings like this, where the consumption of wine is very informal, I've pretty much given up on trying to impart logic and my understanding of well-made wine on the masses (no votes on this Geyserville pretty much sealed that for me). I've taken a small group of couples from this same large group and structured a more formal "tasting/education" session and it was much more well received. I also have given up on trying to conform others who just don't care as much about the hobby, but I did that very early on in my wine-life.
Interesting. In my test groups (for example, a friend of my daughter, my wife's sister and her husband and kids, etc.), Ridge Zins (even Three Valleys) go over real well - although this has been with dinner not a blind tasting.
Last edited by Howard Cooper on December 5th, 2018, 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12845
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#18 Post by Jay Miller » December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

User avatar
Howard Cooper
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 14747
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 8:37 am
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#19 Post by Howard Cooper » December 5th, 2018, 11:01 am

Jay Miller wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
Just had a 2016 Three Valleys with my wife's sister and their family and they loved it.

For me, I am drinking the Three Valleys more young (and generally with the people who would like it) and the Geyserville with more age, but I probably am more oak neutral than you are. There are certainly wines that are overoaked and suffer for it, but there are for me a number of wines that I don't really find hurt by oak and Geyserville is one of those. And, for wines that I age, I am even more neutral on oak if I am confident of the fruit under the oak. For example (and this is now old), I used to stay away from Truchot Charmes Chambertin because young they had new oak and did not really taste like Truchot. Now, 15 years or so later, the Charmes that I stayed away from taste just as much like Truchot as the Clos de la Roche or anything else.

My sister-in-law, in fact, asked me to pick out a case of wines for them while I was in Boston this past weekend and, in addition to the Three Valleys and a couple of halves of Geyserville, I picked out for them Ridge Three Valleys and Geyserville, 2009 of the second wine of Cantemerle, Louis Boillot Bourgogne Rouge, Henry Boillot Bourgogne Rouge, Vajra Nebbiolo, and Vayra Rosso. With multiples of a some things and a couple of bottles of Port, we filled out the case. With the case discount, virtually everything was under $30 (the Geyserville was half bottles). Obviously, I was limited to the store I went to, etc., but this is kind of my idea what someone who likes wine but is not by any means a wine geek should be trying.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

Scott E.
Posts: 498
Joined: March 28th, 2013, 11:10 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#20 Post by Scott E. » December 5th, 2018, 11:47 am

Jay Miller wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
I've never been impressed with Geyserville... but that is just me. Cheers!
$.E$te$

User avatar
Ian Sutton
Posts: 5153
Joined: March 6th, 2014, 2:19 pm
Location: Norwich, UK

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#21 Post by Ian Sutton » December 5th, 2018, 12:10 pm

Hi Alan
I do very much understand what you're saying, and it takes me back to the first tasting group I joined. I knew the square root of zero about wines back then, so they didn't need to be blinded. The one game we played, was to "guess the price of the bottle" and that was such a great way of focusing the mind on how much we liked the wines. No label worship, just a no prejudice feeling of how much we'd pay to buy another bottle of it.
As much as I really enjoy this hobby, a little bit of me hankers after those innocent times. Thanks for the post.
Regards
Ian
Normal for Norfolk

robert creth
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 515
Joined: December 26th, 2012, 7:36 am
Location: San Jose

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#22 Post by robert creth » December 5th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Theirs reminds me of my journey into Scotch whiskey. Very few of my friends in my 20s would consider drinking the stuff with descriptions like, “iodine” and “left over campfire”. And it is true to a point. One has to want to like Scotch to enjoy it and many wines are like that. Some take more effort than many people are willing to put into it and I get it.
I am also terrible describing the taste of wine and have given over to how it makes me feel. I think you can get back to a simpler appreciation. Let go of the analysis.

Lee Barnard
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 50
Joined: January 11th, 2018, 11:26 am
Location: Chadds Ford, PA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#23 Post by Lee Barnard » December 5th, 2018, 12:56 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
Think mainly a palate shift, or a fundamental change in the winemaking? They have definitely ramped new oak usage in the Estate Cab, which is noticeable and made me stop buying it. I haven't tasted the recent Geyservilles (and the winemaking notes don't indicate a shift), but you have me worried.

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3102
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#24 Post by Wes Barton » December 5th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Lee Barnard wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:56 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 5:53 am
If you want a wine that geeks and nongeeks both like, try Ridge Geyserville.
Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
Think mainly a palate shift, or a fundamental change in the winemaking? They have definitely ramped new oak usage in the Estate Cab, which is noticeable and made me stop buying it. I haven't tasted the recent Geyservilles (and the winemaking notes don't indicate a shift), but you have me worried.
I'm guessing you're basing that on the '14 Estate Cab, which was an anomaly. As a reminder, that's essentially declassified Monte Bello. The new oak didn't work well with the fruit, so those lots didn't make the cut for MB, meaning the 2nd wine suffered for it. I'm guessing it'll come around with time, but not interested in betting on it. The '13 and '15 are far superior in every way.

Similarly, I think the common wisdom here about young Geyserville is off base. I've always found some vintages obnoxious young, while others were glorious, with points between. They all age well, which is what I do with them.

Looking back, there was a Chicken Little online impression from the '01 Monte Bello, which was the ripest ever vintage. It didn't mark a change in direction. It was just the right picking decisions for an unusual vintage. A vibrant, wonderful wine.
ITB - Useless lackey

Steve Slatcher
Posts: 182
Joined: July 24th, 2010, 2:17 pm

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#25 Post by Steve Slatcher » December 5th, 2018, 1:41 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:10 pm
The one game we played, was to "guess the price of the bottle" and that was such a great way of focusing the mind on how much we liked the wines. No label worship, just a no prejudice feeling of how much we'd pay to buy another bottle of it.
As much as I really enjoy this hobby, a little bit of me hankers after those innocent times.
Ian - I find it remarkably easy to recreate that feeling by exploring new regions and styles. Eastern Europe and natural wines for example. For me it is more enjoyable than diving into greater and greater nuances of the classic regions.

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5105
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#26 Post by David Glasser » December 5th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:10 pm
The one game we played, was to "guess the price of the bottle" and that was such a great way of focusing the mind on how much we liked the wines. No label worship, just a no prejudice feeling of how much we'd pay to buy another bottle of it.
I suspect I’d have different answers for "guess the price of the bottle" and "how much would you pay for this bottle."

Regarding Ridge Geyserville, I’ve been less enamored of recent vintages than I was back in the 1990s. I figured it was a change in my preferences. Has the wine changed significantly?

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3102
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#27 Post by Wes Barton » December 5th, 2018, 8:12 pm

David Glasser wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 4:31 pm
Ian Sutton wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:10 pm
The one game we played, was to "guess the price of the bottle" and that was such a great way of focusing the mind on how much we liked the wines. No label worship, just a no prejudice feeling of how much we'd pay to buy another bottle of it.
I suspect I’d have different answers for "guess the price of the bottle" and "how much would you pay for this bottle."

Regarding Ridge Geyserville, I’ve been less enamored of recent vintages than I was back in the 1990s. I figured it was a change in my preferences. Has the wine changed significantly?
The "Draper perfume" is pretty much a thing of the past. I'd be interested to taste alongside people who say the oak is more prominent in Ridge wines to get an idea of what they're getting (and if they're drawing conclusions on a tiny sample size). I go up there several times a year, and it seems the oak is generally less prominent. The Estate Chards, especially. Those used to be nearly repulsive on release to many hardcore Ridge fans (though could evolve into amazing wines with 15 years on 'em). Now, they're usually quite nice on release. Usually.

To me, recent vintages of Geezer, like '13, '14, '15, have been back-up-the-truck wines. (Again, I bury my Ridge wines. Being local, there are many contexts I get to try younger ones. I've rarely popped one of my own without at least 15 years on it.)

Way back twenty-something years ago when I got into wine, I wrote notes for myself and made up a star rating system based on how much I'd be willing to pay for another bottle of that wine. That's a good exercise. A good wine can get a zero. Thinking about your own economic value of a wine is very helpful. Makes it easier to pass on a $50 you'd be willing to pay $35 for. But, you might later see it marked down and pick one up.
ITB - Useless lackey

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5105
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#28 Post by David Glasser » December 6th, 2018, 11:10 am

Thanks Wes. I don’t think it’s oak that’s the issue for me. Just less interesting, more one-track, perhaps from the loss of that Draper perfume. I have not been aging them like I used to. I’ll try a bottle young and not bother laying any down because they just don’t seem the same. I remember the 1990 and 1991 Lytton Springs and Geyserville drinking beautifully for 20 years.

Lee Barnard
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 50
Joined: January 11th, 2018, 11:26 am
Location: Chadds Ford, PA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#29 Post by Lee Barnard » December 6th, 2018, 11:36 am

Wes Barton wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 1:36 pm
Lee Barnard wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:56 pm
Jay Miller wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 10:59 am


Not anymore. I opened a 2013 over Thanksgiving and the oak was overwhelming. Really borderline undrinkable for me. Once I open my last 2 bottles of Geyserville (I have a 2010 on deck for tonight) I'm done with them.
Think mainly a palate shift, or a fundamental change in the winemaking? They have definitely ramped new oak usage in the Estate Cab, which is noticeable and made me stop buying it. I haven't tasted the recent Geyservilles (and the winemaking notes don't indicate a shift), but you have me worried.
I'm guessing you're basing that on the '14 Estate Cab, which was an anomaly. As a reminder, that's essentially declassified Monte Bello. The new oak didn't work well with the fruit, so those lots didn't make the cut for MB, meaning the 2nd wine suffered for it. I'm guessing it'll come around with time, but not interested in betting on it. The '13 and '15 are far superior in every way.

Similarly, I think the common wisdom here about young Geyserville is off base. I've always found some vintages obnoxious young, while others were glorious, with points between. They all age well, which is what I do with them.

Looking back, there was a Chicken Little online impression from the '01 Monte Bello, which was the ripest ever vintage. It didn't mark a change in direction. It was just the right picking decisions for an unusual vintage. A vibrant, wonderful wine.
Thanks. Did not know the story behind the '14. Sure I will have a chance to taste the '15 soon. I noticed the oak in the '13, but thought it has a chance to integrate unlike the '14. In any event, I think post '12 they ramped to nearly 50% new oak from 15-20%? Not a judgment whether the change made a better wine for anyone but myself.

User avatar
Jeff Vaughan
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1176
Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 9:42 am
Location: Kennett Square, PA

Re: Critic wines v drinkers wines

#30 Post by Jeff Vaughan » December 6th, 2018, 12:59 pm

I was on the website a couple days ago looking at the oak regimen on the Estate Merlot and Cabs. It looks like it varies from vintage to vintage, which makes sense, based on the fruit. I really want to like Ridge, but most of the time the oak and dill flavors are too much for me. I wish they would dial it back some.
CT: outplaying

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”