Futures

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James Stolle
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Futures

#1 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 1:01 pm

I am a fairly new wine collector. I like wine futures but I typically only get 1 to 2 every year. I am hoping for some help on making good decisions on which ones to purchase. My typical way is looking at scores but I am open to other methods of judging which futures to buy. My budget is typically $1000 plus or minus a few dollars. I am not fixed on 1 to 2 but I do like quality of quantity, any thoughts? Oh and I almost forgot, If it's not a good year for futures, then other bottles to buy that are worth aging.

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Re: Futures

#2 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 1:03 pm

What kinds of wines do you prefer? And why do you like futures? Usually, the reason to buy them is (a) to save money or (b) lock in wines that won't be easy to obtain.

Relying on scores only works if you trust the reviewer(s).

If it's a poor vintage, why buy at all? Spend the money on other wines.
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Re: Futures

#3 Post by ky1em!ttskus » December 3rd, 2018, 1:04 pm

My suggestion is not to buy futures. :)

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Re: Futures

#4 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 1:08 pm

I originally started buying futures bc I like the process of aging wines and to lock in ones that may be cheaper now versus later. I always had this thought of building a wine collection that I could enjoy when I retire which is in 30 years or so. I really haven’t found a wine type I dislike.

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Re: Futures

#5 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 1:09 pm

Why not futures?

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Re: Futures

#6 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 3rd, 2018, 1:19 pm

The day of futures has sunset. It really makes little sense these days. There is such a wealth of fine Bordeaux in the marketplace, that invariably the wine you bought on futures comes back on retail sale at a price that is at, barely above, and sometimes even below, futures price. Sure some shoot up a bit, especially if they get really highly Parker scores, but not all. I think futures could make a little bit of sense for the sake of (1) convenience, (2) small production Bordeaux and (3) formats other than 750. I buy a fair bit of Bordeaux, and saving a few bucks has rarely been the impetus to buy futures for at least 10+ years (perhaps back in the day, it made more sense). I bought a smattering of 2014s in futures solely because my local retailer had great, varied offerings, making it highly convenience for me. I have since doubled-down on some wines for prices barely above futures pricing, and in the case of some additional Sociando Mallet, for around what I paid in futures. Pay now, and you carry the risk of contract performance as well. Retailers do fail from time to time, and they are sitting on your money. Keep that in mind.

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Re: Futures

#7 Post by ky1em!ttskus » December 3rd, 2018, 1:35 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:08 pm
I originally started buying futures bc I like the process of aging wines and to lock in ones that may be cheaper now versus later. I always had this thought of building a wine collection that I could enjoy when I retire which is in 30 years or so. I really haven’t found a wine type I dislike.
Are you sure you like 30 yr old wine?

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Re: Futures

#8 Post by Tariq K » December 3rd, 2018, 1:35 pm

All good points. But what do you think of Ridge Monte Bello futures?
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Re: Futures

#9 Post by Scott Fitzgerald » December 3rd, 2018, 1:37 pm

Tariq K wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:35 pm
All good points. But what do you think of Ridge Monte Bello futures?
A bit different than Bdx in that there’s typically a bigger discount which makes it worth it, IMO.
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Re: Futures

#10 Post by Tariq K » December 3rd, 2018, 1:52 pm

Scott Fitzgerald wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:37 pm
Tariq K wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:35 pm
All good points. But what do you think of Ridge Monte Bello futures?
A bit different than Bdx in that there’s typically a bigger discount which makes it worth it, IMO.
Agreed! Plus they are good when toddlered / babycaked / bottlerobbed / PremQuaffed or whatever we're calling it these days
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Re: Futures

#11 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 1:56 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:08 pm
I originally started buying futures bc I like the process of aging wines and to lock in ones that may be cheaper now versus later. I always had this thought of building a wine collection that I could enjoy when I retire which is in 30 years or so. I really haven’t found a wine type I dislike.
Are you talking Bordeaux? Napa cabernet?
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Re: Futures

#12 Post by Jim Clary » December 3rd, 2018, 2:03 pm

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in favor of futures is the guarantee of provenance. With all the fakes floating about in the market, there may be good reasons to consider futures if you are buying collectible wines. At this point, the budget you mention probably won't take you very far into that league, but as it changes you could well find yourself buying wines that you may wish to guarantee their origin and condition.
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Re: Futures

#13 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 2:08 pm

Well I have been buying just Bordeaux but I’m really interested in domestic wines as well. I did purchase a bionic Frog 2016, that I plan to age. I like reserving things so I don’t have to try and buy it when it finally comes out. Plus I’m typically only interested in aging 1-2 wines per year. The rest I buy to drink now or in the near future

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Re: Futures

#14 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 2:08 pm

Domestic futures sold online?

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Re: Futures

#15 Post by Greg K » December 3rd, 2018, 2:21 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:08 pm
Well I have been buying just Bordeaux but I’m really interested in domestic wines as well. I did purchase a bionic Frog 2016, that I plan to age. I like reserving things so I don’t have to try and buy it when it finally comes out. Plus I’m typically only interested in aging 1-2 wines per year. The rest I buy to drink now or in the near future
Is there much benefit from aging Bionic Frog?
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Re: Futures

#16 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 2:31 pm

From what I read they shine with some time in the bottle.

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Re: Futures

#17 Post by Ian Sutton » December 3rd, 2018, 2:33 pm

Hi James
Welcome to the forum.

At $1000 for around 20 wines, you should be able to get some decent wines, though one problem with futures is it's limiting you to 12 (or these days perhaps 6) bottles of a single wine, so you don't get a lot of variety.

Predicting what you'll like in the future is quite difficult, as tastes do change over time, but perhaps more importantly new interests emerge, so if you're happily buying Pauillac every year and suddenly discover the joys of Sangiovese or Mencia, then you've now got a cellar focused on wines you have liked, but you no longer find as exciting as the new interest. It's often good to hedge your bets, by laying some down, but allowing a proportion of your budget to explore (that might be anywhere from 10% to 90%)

Many of us enjoy the act of cellaring, and it sounds like you are of that view. It does help to work out exactly what you seek:
- A fine cellar of wines
- A really flexible cellar allowing you to choose from a wide selection to match mood, food or company, but accepting there will be a lot of singletons
- A cellar that is tightly focused to your favourites, which you're happy to have in quantity. Good if you're going to stay tightly focused on a specific style (or styles) for those 30 years
- A core of special occasion wines, supported by a rotating stock of more everyday wines
- A cellar that really allows you to get to grips with what effect ageing has on wines and to share the journey of a full case

There is no 'right' answer, except for the one(s) that motivates you the most. Knowing that will really help focus your buying.

In terms of critics, learn to read the notes and ignore not just the scores, but also any stream of superlatives. Focus on what aromas, flavours, textures etc. appeal to you. Always better to taste yourself though, as it's your money getting spent, not that critic who is blasting through 100+ tasting samples a day, and who may have significantly different palate preferences to you.

There are other strategies, including taking a view that investments are a sober decision, and wine is for enjoying i.e. invest the money you have, and buy whatever mature examples you want, when you want them. This might sound cold-blooded, and it's not for me (as I said, I enjoy the act of cellaring and choosing wines to cellar), but it is a way of insuring yourself against a major change in tastes and a cellar full of wines that aren't as interesting as you thought at the time.

One other financial consideration - every future is a risk. If the vendor goes belly up, then you may never see the wine you've paid for. This does happen, and there are bandits out there who will even plan it this way ("fleecing rich folk is like a victimless crime innit?"). Sometimes even the most reputable companies go under, and you'd be last in line to get your money back, or the wine you paid for. Use credit card for purchases to reduce the risk.

I hope this helps - it's not specific recommendations, as I think understanding your aim with great clarity should come first, then comes what do you like now and what are you looking for for either "more of the same" or "something slightly or significantly different". Far easier to recommend if you say "I like Sonoma syrah, but I'd also like to have something a bit more savoury available", or "I'd like ideas for red wines that drink great out of the gate, but will last and develop significantly over 30 years".

Regards
Ian
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Re: Futures

#18 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 2:44 pm

I think mostly I cellar that closely resembles my wife’s and I taste. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

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Re: Futures

#19 Post by Marcus Dean » December 3rd, 2018, 3:05 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:44 pm
I think mostly I cellar that closely resembles my wife’s and I taste. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.
James, you need to consider that your taste in wine may change markedly over 30 years, BDX is like a gateway drug that can lead to a lifetime of addiction.

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Re: Futures

#20 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 3:23 pm

The best Bordeaux I’ve had has been from Italy. Blasphemy I know but Italian wines are my favorite

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Re: Futures

#21 Post by NED VALOIS » December 3rd, 2018, 3:27 pm

If you like bull's blood ! [snort.gif]

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Re: Futures

#22 Post by Jason T » December 3rd, 2018, 3:46 pm

James, how much age do you like on your Boudreaux?
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Re: Futures

#23 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 3:51 pm

I typically am aging it on whatever recommendations I read from people like Parker etc

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Re: Futures

#24 Post by Marcus Dean » December 3rd, 2018, 3:55 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 3:51 pm
I typically am aging it on whatever recommendations I read from people like Parker etc
I find most critics aging recs to be on the youngish side for my palate, and a lot depends on your storage conditions

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Re: Futures

#25 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 4:00 pm

That’s what I’ve read too. At this point so new, that I’m just looking to all the resources I can fine to gain a perspective on when to drink it

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Re: Futures

#26 Post by Scott G r u n e r » December 3rd, 2018, 4:01 pm

NED VALOIS wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
If you like bull's blood ! [snort.gif]
Pro-tip... If you are responding to a particular comment in a thread, quote it, so people have the first clue of what you are referring to.

I think I figured this one out, but there have been others where I have simply thought "wtf" [scratch.gif]
//Cynic

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Re: Futures

#27 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 4:03 pm

Yikes I’m so sorry

Pro-tip... If you are responding to a particular comment in a thread, quote it, so people have the first clue of what you are referring to.

I think I figured this one out, but there have been others where I have simply thought "wtf" [scratch.gif]
[/quote]

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Re: Futures

#28 Post by YLee » December 3rd, 2018, 4:15 pm

My advice is determine first what type of occasion you will be drinking these wines.
If you are trying to save them for special events then buy bottles that are more expensive/quality so that when you open it, you just feel all giddy inside.
If you are looking for casual drinking then determine next how often you will be drinking. Say you drink pretty frequently then go for bottles that are in the $30-$80 (this is just an example, you have to figure out the actual cost yourself). So that you will have plenty of bottles with your $1000 for the rest of the year.

As for what to actually buy, I would say it really depends on your taste and it's case by case by each vintage. Some years you can have excellent ABC wine but next year ABC wine can be not so good.

Don't buy too much of one wine from one vintage.

And my last advice is, minus 3-4 points off the Pros scores.
-Yong

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Re: Futures

#29 Post by NED VALOIS » December 3rd, 2018, 4:18 pm

Scott,

If you were directing that to my post, I don't know if you knew what I was referring to or not ,but here is some history;
Did not intend a quote .

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xp ... story.html

"The current wine scandal in Italy is certainly not the first and probably not the last vino vulgarity. Wine lovers are still smarting from the recent Austrian antifreeze crisis. And it doesn't take a lot of historical background to recall the infamous Bordeaux scandal.

In fact, several years ago an Italian winemaker was found guilty of using a variety of chemicals and bull's blood in his wines. When the judge asked him what he did with the millions of lira, he replied:........"

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Re: Futures

#30 Post by Ian Sutton » December 3rd, 2018, 5:28 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:44 pm
I think mostly I cellar that closely resembles my wife’s and I taste.
Which is a very good strategy indeed! Why not have a buying strategy that goes something like...

When you try a wine and really enjoy it, commit to buy 2-3 more of it, or 2-3 more from the same region. Let the growth happen naturally, and driven by your own palate rather than Parker (or rather these days Lisa Perotti-Brown, or other members of the Wine Advocate team). You have the best two palates in the world to guide you in what the two of you will enjoy. Trust the best - yourselves!
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Re: Futures

#31 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 5:32 pm

I should have specified that $1000 was just for cellaring a few nice bottles but my budget is more than that.
YLee wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 4:15 pm
My advice is determine first what type of occasion you will be drinking these wines.
If you are trying to save them for special events then buy bottles that are more expensive/quality so that when you open it, you just feel all giddy inside.
If you are looking for casual drinking then determine next how often you will be drinking. Say you drink pretty frequently then go for bottles that are in the $30-$80 (this is just an example, you have to figure out the actual cost yourself). So that you will have plenty of bottles with your $1000 for the rest of the year.

As for what to actually buy, I would say it really depends on your taste and it's case by case by each vintage. Some years you can have excellent ABC wine but next year ABC wine can be not so good.

Don't buy too much of one wine from one vintage.

And my last advice is, minus 3-4 points off the Pros scores.

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Re: Futures

#32 Post by R. Frankel » December 3rd, 2018, 5:32 pm

@James: Unlike others here, I actually think you’re doing a pretty reasonable thing (buying futures of wine you like). It won’t be the way to get the cheapest bottles - you’d be amazed at how often prices go down after the wines come out - but if your time horizon is 20 or 30 years the difference is small. I’d suggest two additions:

Taste Bordeaux before buying. Means you won’t buy in the first flush of futures but you can still get in early enough. Look for UGC Tastings - they happen in NY and SF, probably other places. There’s nothing like tasting things yourself! There is some guesswork to correlate young tastings with aged flavors but if you know you like it now that’s a good sign.

Buy some bottles with age. With the larger Bordeaux producers this is remarkably easy and (IMHO) worries about provenance are overblown. There are tons of stores with a good supply of older bottles, and places like K&L have continuous auctions that are very reliable (and I speak from having bought hundreds of bottles this way). Pick a producer you like and try bottles from 1990 and 2000. You’ll learn a lot, and have fun drinking nice wine! You might even find that you can buy bottles from good vintages like 2001, or great vintages like 1996, cheaper than you can buy current releases.

This approach has led me to actually stop buying new release Bordeaux (2012 was my last vintage) and just keep backfilling older vintages because I learned that I like these wines with a lot of age (at least 20 years). But perhaps I’m older than you (I’m 55).

If you name a few producers you have been buying/like we can give more specific feedback.
Rich Frankel

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Re: Futures

#33 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 5:34 pm

I need to educate myself more on the typical times different wines can age. Any thoughts on a rough timeline list for a variety of wine?
Ian Sutton wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:28 pm
James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:44 pm
I think mostly I cellar that closely resembles my wife’s and I taste.
Which is a very good strategy indeed! Why not have a buying strategy that goes something like...

When you try a wine and really enjoy it, commit to buy 2-3 more of it, or 2-3 more from the same region. Let the growth happen naturally, and driven by your own palate rather than Parker (or rather these days Lisa Perotti-Brown, or other members of the Wine Advocate team). You have the best two palates in the world to guide you in what the two of you will enjoy. Trust the best - yourselves!

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Re: Futures

#34 Post by R. Frankel » December 3rd, 2018, 5:35 pm

Oh one last thought - this discussion is all about red Bordeaux. Other regions (Piedmont, Burgundy, California, heck, even sweet Bordeaux/Sauternes) have a very different calculus. The truth about Bordeaux is that the producers make very very !! large volume and the wine is available for many years.
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Re: Futures

#35 Post by R. Frankel » December 3rd, 2018, 5:38 pm

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:34 pm
I need to educate myself more on the typical times different wines can age. Any thoughts on a rough timeline list for a variety of wine?
This is a complex question because wine aging goodness is highly dependent on your subjective tastes/preferences. For example I’m drinking a 1996 Chablis tonight that I’m loving but many Chardonnay drinkers would not enjoy. Most premium European wine can age for decades if stored well.

Read my response above. My best advice is to buy older bottles and start drinking them.
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Re: Futures

#36 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 5:40 pm

K and L auctions, any issue with authenticity? How about any other recommendations for auctions?
R. Frankel wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:32 pm
@James: Unlike others here, I actually think you’re doing a pretty reasonable thing (buying futures of wine you like). It won’t be the way to get the cheapest bottles - you’d be amazed at how often prices go down after the wines come out - but if your time horizon is 20 or 30 years the difference is small. I’d suggest two additions:

Taste Bordeaux before buying. Means you won’t buy in the first flush of futures but you can still get in early enough. Look for UGC Tastings - they happen in NY and SF, probably other places. There’s nothing like tasting things yourself! There is some guesswork to correlate young tastings with aged flavors but if you know you like it now that’s a good sign.

Buy some bottles with age. With the larger Bordeaux producers this is remarkably easy and (IMHO) worries about provenance are overblown. There are tons of stores with a good supply of older bottles, and places like K&L have continuous auctions that are very reliable (and I speak from having bought hundreds of bottles this way). Pick a producer you like and try bottles from 1990 and 2000. You’ll learn a lot, and have fun drinking nice wine! You might even find that you can buy bottles from good vintages like 2001, or great vintages like 1996, cheaper than you can buy current releases.

This approach has led me to actually stop buying new release Bordeaux (2012 was my last vintage) and just keep backfilling older vintages because I learned that I like these wines with a lot of age (at least 20 years). But perhaps I’m older than you (I’m 55).

If you name a few producers you have been buying/like we can give more specific feedback.

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Re: Futures

#37 Post by R. Frankel » December 3rd, 2018, 5:42 pm

I really only worry about authenticity at the very high end (DRC, Lafite, etc.). K&L is a rock solid shop, as good as any.

There are many other auction outfits, as well as retailers that sell older bottles. Search this board for listings. Some dependency on where you live due to Intra-State shipping arcana.
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Re: Futures

#38 Post by James Stolle » December 3rd, 2018, 9:51 pm

I am going to try out their 4 bottle Cab collector membership. Thankyou for the recommendation.
Scott Fitzgerald wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:37 pm
Tariq K wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:35 pm
All good points. But what do you think of Ridge Monte Bello futures?
A bit different than Bdx in that there’s typically a bigger discount which makes it worth it, IMO.

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Re: Futures

#39 Post by Jason T » December 3rd, 2018, 11:47 pm

James, have you had mature Monte Bello previously? This is a wine that, like a lot of Bordeaux, many people find benefits from significant aging. 15-25 years or more. It may make sense to have a mature example to understand if it is a wine that resonates with you.
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Re: Futures

#40 Post by Mark Golodetz » December 4th, 2018, 4:05 am

Advice I always give to neophytes.
Join a local wine group. That way you can taste a lot of different wines and will get a far better idea of what you like. Also in most wine groups, there are always experienced tasters, who will advise and help.
ITB

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Re: Futures

#41 Post by Markus S » December 4th, 2018, 5:29 am

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:08 pm
I originally started buying futures bc I like the process of aging wines and to lock in ones that may be cheaper now versus later.
Rhys futures won't say you a dime, since they are priced the same as when they come out later, but the advantage there is that you can specify your bottle size, something many producers won't do.
$ _ € ® e . k @

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Re: Futures

#42 Post by Dennis Borczon » December 4th, 2018, 5:49 am

ky1em!ttskus wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:04 pm
My suggestion is not to buy futures. :)
+1 Waste of time.

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Re: Futures

#43 Post by John S » December 4th, 2018, 6:00 am

I know for many of "wine veterans" around here will say don't bother with futures. Going back to my beginnings Bordeaux futures were a fun way to get involved early in a wine I liked. I secured some things I wanted and I felt like I was part of the action so to speak. Now I and many here no longer care about those things and many no longer care about Bordeaux. But I'd still suggest OP do what he finds enjoyable and can learn from and futures are part of that experience for most. And the best advice is to join a local wine groups and taste, taste, taste. That is by far the best way to learn while you build a cellar and tastes evolve.
John Sprow

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Re: Futures

#44 Post by Gerhard P. » December 4th, 2018, 6:39 am

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:09 pm
Why not futures?
I stopped buying Bx futures after the 2000 vintage (with 1 exception, 6 bts of 2003).
Why?

1st the prices exploded (which seemes low today, but for 2005 in 2006 ... ?!?)

2nd: Most (almost all with few exceptions) wines were/are still available years after release, and often at the same or even at lower prices, at least in the auction market. AND you can get most vintages (let´s say) from 1994 to 2004, which are close to maturity or soon will be, cheaper than the futures for 2015/16 ...

3rd: the quantity of most Bordeaux Chateaux are huge ... compared to some top-producers in Burgundy and Rhone Valley - 100-300.000 bts. against 2400, 1200, even 300 bts ... so I decided to put my rare money into these instead ... before they disapeared into cellers of geeks and never showed up again.

If I´d like to buy a certain Bordeaux today I could do that without great effort in a week or two - no problem for 99+% of the wines.
Sure there is the risk of proveniance, but (here in Europe) I rarely had issues with bad shipment so far.

Unless you want to order halves, magnums or bigger formats ... or if you´d like to store the bottles yourself for 15-20 years I would not recommend to go into futures now ...
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Re: Futures

#45 Post by Gerhard P. » December 4th, 2018, 6:50 am

R. Frankel wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:38 pm
James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:34 pm
I need to educate myself more on the typical times different wines can age. Any thoughts on a rough timeline list for a variety of wine?
This is a complex question because wine aging goodness is highly dependent on your subjective tastes/preferences. For example I’m drinking a 1996 Chablis tonight that I’m loving but many Chardonnay drinkers would not enjoy. Most premium European wine can age for decades if stored well.

Read my response above. My best advice is to buy older bottles and start drinking them.
For French wines only:
I know of no better French wine (excluded Muscadet, simple Bordeaux, Bourgogne, Beaujolais, Cotes-du-Rhone, Languedoc and other daily drinkers) that can not age and improve at least for 8-10 years ... and in most cases for decades ...
The really good wines NEED bottle age to show best.

For instance last Saturday I had a white Chateauneuf-du-Pape 1961 and a Chambertin GC 1982 that were simply wonderful ...
that doesn´t mean they wouldn´t have been at least that good, maybe better, 10-20 years ago, but they fit perfectly to the food and were highly interesting ...
and they were still fine!
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Howard Cooper
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Re: Futures

#46 Post by Howard Cooper » December 4th, 2018, 8:55 am

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:08 pm
Domestic futures sold online?
What domestic futures are you buying that you plan to hold for 30 years?

Beyond Monte Bello, Montelena and a handful of others, what wines have this track record.
Howard

"That's what I do. I drink and I know things." Tyrion Lannister

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Re: Futures

#47 Post by James Stolle » December 4th, 2018, 9:38 am

I had the 2007 and enjoyed it quite a bit.
Jason T wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 11:47 pm
James, have you had mature Monte Bello previously? This is a wine that, like a lot of Bordeaux, many people find benefits from significant aging. 15-25 years or more. It may make sense to have a mature example to understand if it is a wine that resonates with you.

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Re: Futures

#48 Post by James Stolle » December 4th, 2018, 9:42 am

At this point, monte bello, but otherwise I have only purchased bordeaux futures. Any suggestions?
Howard Cooper wrote:
December 4th, 2018, 8:55 am
James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 2:08 pm
Domestic futures sold online?
What domestic futures are you buying that you plan to hold for 30 years?

Beyond Monte Bello, Montelena and a handful of others, what wines have this track record.

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Scott Fitzgerald
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Re: Futures

#49 Post by Scott Fitzgerald » December 4th, 2018, 9:53 am

James, I'll give you the advice that I received from a lot of the board members who have enjoyed wine over many decades:

1. Taste, taste, taste! You won't know if you like it unless you try it first.
2. Source some older wines to see if you like them - lots of people on this board champion older wines, but you may not like them. Best to try first.
3. Diversify. Try and source wines from different regions and don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Your tastes will change over time plus variety is the spice of life!
4. When in doubt, go with established producers which have a track record of good wines which age well. Lots of info on this board and the internet which will steer you in the right direction.
5. Read the notes, not the points. Lots of good details in CellarTracker and other websites - focus on how they're describing the wine to see if it's something worth exploring. While this never takes the place of actual tasting, it can help point you to styles you may enjoy.
6. Don't rush. You'd be surprised at how much wine you can acquire in just a few years. Lots of stories from folks who bought heavily a certain style, vintage, etc., who wish they hadn't.
7. Remember that high price doesn't always equal high quality. Lots of values around the world which are great wines and age well, e.g. Loire Valley, Cru Beaujolais, Cali zins, etc.

Cheers!
CT: BigTex22

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Paul McCourt
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Re: Futures

#50 Post by Paul McCourt » December 4th, 2018, 10:00 am

James Stolle wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:01 pm
I am a fairly new wine collector. I like wine futures but I typically only get 1 to 2 every year. I am hoping for some help on making good decisions on which ones to purchase. My typical way is looking at scores but I am open to other methods of judging which futures to buy. My budget is typically $1000 plus or minus a few dollars. I am not fixed on 1 to 2 but I do like quality of quantity, any thoughts? Oh and I almost forgot, If it's not a good year for futures, then other bottles to buy that are worth aging.
I've bought futures for a number of years. Learn more before you buy too much now.

Consider why you are doing this.
Do you even like aged wine? Find this out!
I started doing it to "collect". There is nothing wrong with this, and I, like many others, still enjoy collecting wine. I don't fuzz too much over the "value" of it, though I do pay attention to it. Enjoy the collecting aspect. It's a guilty pleasure!
Some of what I bought early on I later found that it wasn't as much of my cup of tea as others. I initially bought a lot of left bank, but have come to be more of a right bank guy. I now buy much more right bank on future. So, before going too deep in one direction, make sure it is what you like. (What I don't do is get all upset over it, because for all I know, I could start leaning back the other way, as my tastes have moved around over the years somewhat. So take "what you like" with a grain of salt, cuz that can change) I would have been smarter to spread things around and go more gently until I had a better idea of what i liked.
I like futures because I can easily get lots of 375's. I value this a bunch. This now represents most of my future purchases. Futures are great for size issues.
Don't forget to take into consideration storage. It will become an issue and possibly a large expense.

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