Consumption if wine had no alcohol

[AndrewH]

More of a thought experiment, which we were discussing over dinner recently:

If wine had no alcohol in it, but otherwise tasted/smelled the same in all respects, would you still drink the amount you do?

Assume also no added or decreased nutritional benefits, such as fewer calories or less of the stuff we use to justify consumption for health reasons.

(And, as should be obvious, this isn't about alcohol-free wines.)

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Increase. I believe.

I *rarely* reach for wine when it's the alcohol I'm after, instead preferring beer or a liquor-based drink.

[robert creth]

What would be the point? If there is no alcohol, there is no wine. It is the reason for wine. I don’t drink wine to get drunk but I do enjoy the social and physical buzz. I wouldn’t bother otherwise.

[Sh@n A]

Sounds like there is a business opportunity for non-fizzy, non-alcoholic fruit juice mixed with pencil shavings, garden hose, dirt and leather. And 5 percent of the time, it’s gone bad.

[Markus S]

What's the point?
If you cannot get your kicks from fermented grapes, why bother? There's plenty of soda and lassis to consume.

[R. Frankel]

I think this is a fine thought experiment, and this isn’t the first time I’ve considered this question. I don’t really care about getting buzzed and would generally prefer not to have any of the intoxicating side effects of alcohol.

But still a fair question - could wine be as (potentially) special without the alcohol? Why or why not? There are premium foods that are not intoxicating (Kobe beef, fresh lobster, caviar, truffles, hand crafted chocolate). This is hard! The only thing I can think of is a kind of social inertia - we are used to luxury drinks containing alcohol. Other reasons?

[c fu]

I'd definitely save a ton of Uber/Lyft bills. If it tasted exactly the same, it wouldn't matter to me if it had alcohol or not.

[Michae1 P0wers]

Wait: does the cost remain the same? Do the calories decrease commiserate with the reduction in alcohol?

I suspect my consumption would drastically decrease towards but not quite arriving at zero, as neither the cost nor (especially) the calories would be justified.

[ky1em!ttskus]

I'd definitely save a ton of Uber/Lyft bills. If it tasted exactly the same, it wouldn't matter to me if it had alcohol or not.

This.

I think I would be poor, assuming it cost the same. I’d prob drink it non-stop.

[Sh@n A]

I guess if it tasted exactly the same. There would still be sensory thrills to be had. But I would have to move up to quality spectrum, and I would generally drink it less often.

[Ian Sutton]

A difficult question.

I suspect the same, on the grounds that ability to drink more in a session would start off being attractive but would quickly lose interest. Sometimes the effect is pleasing, having a relaxing evening with friends and letting the slow effect of the alcohol help that relaxation, with it shaping the relaxation as the evening wears on. I would miss elements of that. I daresay if there was no alcohol, we'd be sharing bottles at work with colleagues who shared an interest, perhaps going so far as to have a regular tasting club in the canteen.

[Bryan Carr]

I'd absolutely drink it more often as I'm mostly into wine for the sensory aspect. When I want to drink and party I almost never reach for wine, it's usually cheap beer or cocktails in that case. 9 times out of 10 if I decide not to drink wine at home it's because I either don't want to be fuzzy that night or I don't want to feel less than 100% the next day. If it was alcohol-free I'd drink it probably every night.

[Bob Summers]

I drink for taste. If a tavern doesn't have craft beer, I'll drink Iced tea. I would definitely drink more wine if it had no alcohol. I ride a motorcycle (35-40K miles/yr) so I have to be extremely careful about alcohol consumption. I would love to be able to consume a whole bottle of wine at a pot luck gourmet picnic.

[NickRut]

I’d drink about the same amount, unless it drove the calories down significantly. Then I’d drink substantially more.

[SOvery]

My initial reaction was yes, lots more, but on reflection, it occurs to me that the alcohol is an important part of the wine experience because it works to limit consumption and make the drinking of wine special: you can only drink (or remember) so much; you have to consider the post drinking window - to not use heavy machinery, to have a nice doze etc. Such an imposition of ‘scarcity’ makes the time spent enjoying wine more valuable.

There is a reason why World Cups are four yearly, why people don’t have Christmas every day...

[Jeff Vaughan]

I basically drink water, beer, tea and coffee. If wine had no alcohol, I might never drink water again.

[Matthew King]

In an ideal world, I’d have both ... wines that came with a buzz and an NA version that still had the succulent and savory qualities I like in wine.

I could choose either variety depending on my needs at a certain moment.

I would drink a ton of those NA-style Becks beers, for example, if they actually tasted good.

[R. Frankel]

I’ve been drinking more German Rieslings this year that have lower alcohol content. I definitely notice the lack of buzz and I like it. Doesn’t mean I drink more lower alcohol wine though; the high octane stuff remains delicious as well.

[Marc Frontario]

I put down a big fat zero.....I needs me my alcohol!..how else am I going to put up with Alfert and Corey?

[Marc Frontario]

On the serious note
...if it tasted and smelled the same i could see a slight increase..only slight because I have to watch my sexy figure

[Jeremy C]

My initial reaction was yes, lots more, but on reflection, it occurs to me that the alcohol is an important part of the wine experience because it works to limit consumption and make the drinking of wine special: you can only drink (or remember) so much; you have to consider the post drinking window - to not use heavy machinery, to have a nice doze etc. Such an imposition of ‘scarcity’ makes the time spent enjoying wine more valuable.

There is a reason why World Cups are four yearly, why people don’t have Christmas every day...

Now that’s an interesting point

[larry schaffer]

There is no way to get it to 'taste the same' or 'smell the same' with the alcohol. Alcohol adds body and allows for the aromatics to be as volatile as they are - without it, you would have flavored water that would taste like, well, flavored water . . .

Cheers

[Tom Reddick]

There is no way to get it to 'taste the same' or 'smell the same' with the alcohol. Alcohol adds body and allows for the aromatics to be as volatile as they are - without it, you would have flavored water that would taste like, well, flavored water . . .

Cheers

Agreed. The theoretical concept here is that you could have everything wine offers except for the alcohol- but I do not think that is remotely possible. Plus there is certainly an additional pleasure factor in even having a single glass of wine. The alcohol is central to the entire process.

This is not a perfect comparison, but my parents started taking my siblings and I to high end restaurants at 4 years of age. We were not only allowed, but encouraged, to try the most exotic foods available. And while we were not allowed to drink, we were allowed to order virgin daiquiris and pina coladas.

To this day, I will very often order a virgin daiquiri at lunchtime or at a dinner where I do not wish to get tipsy- and I still love them, but it is basically fruit juice. A lot of the genius and subtle flavor of a really fine example is almost entirely lost without the alcohol.

[Markus S]

... because I have to watch my sexy figure

Based on your avatar, I'd say you look pretty skeletal.

[Steve Crawford]

this sounds like some scary IPOB fantasy.

[AndrewH]

My initial reaction was yes, lots more, but on reflection, it occurs to me that the alcohol is an important part of the wine experience because it works to limit consumption and make the drinking of wine special: you can only drink (or remember) so much; you have to consider the post drinking window - to not use heavy machinery, to have a nice doze etc. Such an imposition of ‘scarcity’ makes the time spent enjoying wine more valuable.

There is a reason why World Cups are four yearly, why people don’t have Christmas every day...

Now that’s an interesting point

Agree. Like if cake and ice cream had no calories.

I appreciate the points about "it's not wine if there's no alcohol", but this was more a thought experiment than something practical (although I'm surprised that flavor engineers haven't figure this one out).

I would drink more, although I think the ideal (theoretical) outcome would be having an alcohol-free version of every wine so I could turn to that after a couple of glasses.

[larry schaffer]

And just to add to the conversation:

Newly formed BevZero targets non-alcoholic bulk wine sector

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2018/ ... ne-sector/

[Anton D]

As of this moment, there are 56 liars on this poll.

[AndrewH]

And just to add to the conversation:

Newly formed BevZero targets non-alcoholic bulk wine sector

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2018/ ... ne-sector/

Feel free to create a separate poll on whether your wine consumption would increase/decrease if it contained THC instead of alcohol.

[Jim Stewart]

As of this moment, there are 56 liars on this poll.

I am almost at the same place as you, Anton. I find the responses of no change or an increase very surprising, almost incomprehensible. I am tempted to make some facetious comments about denial, delusion and the effects of alcohol on these respondents but I will refrain (see what I did there). I suppose there are some relatively unique circumstances where someone tastes entirely for the sensory related pleasure, but I find it incredulous that such a large portion of the respondents would say that. Another WOW !!!.

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

if wine didn't have alcohol, but was otherwise the same, the average quality of my lunches would skyrocket! I frequently think about what wine I'm going to open when I get home for dinner later, and then --- when I get home later, help with kids' dinner, bathe kids, get kids in bed, cook our dinner -- I often find it's too late and/or I'm too worn out to have wine, resulting in no wine consumed that day.

[Mike Kuller]

With no alcohol, it may taste the same but the experience would be very different.

Like near-beer, what's the point?

I no longer drink hard liquor.

But I could see becoming a craft beer aficionado.

[Sh@n A]

Interesting point. Who drinks non alcoholic craft beer? There is no mass market. Would be interesting this same question on a craft beer forum to see results.

[Brian G r a f s t r o m]

Interesting point. Who drinks non alcoholic craft beer? There is no mass market. Would be interesting this same question on a craft beer forum to see results.

NA beer tastes bad. Brewdog's "Nanny State", which might have been 0.5%, rather than 0.0%, is the best one I've had, and it paled in comparison to normal beers.

[TomC]

Since I only enjoy wines for the taste and the winemaking stories behind them, it would absolutely increase for me. I don’t get a buzz from alcohol, only the hangover downsides thanks to ALDH2 deficiency (aka Asian Glow). I’m sure there are others out there...

[JLee]

As of this moment, there are 56 liars on this poll.

I am almost at the same place as you, Anton. I find the responses of no change or an increase very surprising, almost incomprehensible. I am tempted to make some facetious comments about denial, delusion and the effects of alcohol on these respondents but I will refrain (see what I did there). I suppose there are some relatively unique circumstances where someone tastes entirely for the sensory related pleasure, but I find it incredulous that such a large portion of the respondents would say that. Another WOW !!!.

Nice to see some lucidity in this thread.

[James Billy]

if wine didn't have alcohol, but was otherwise the same, the average quality of my lunches would skyrocket! I frequently think about what wine I'm going to open when I get home for dinner later, and then --- when I get home later, help with kids' dinner, bathe kids, get kids in bed, cook our dinner -- I often find it's too late and/or I'm too worn out to have wine, resulting in no wine consumed that day.

This. And my doctor said if I drink earlier, I'll sleep better. So, 5pm or never!

[kyledorsey]

There is no way to get it to 'taste the same' or 'smell the same' with the alcohol. Alcohol adds body and allows for the aromatics to be as volatile as they are - without it, you would have flavored water that would taste like, well, flavored water . . .

Cheers

I think the question is more appropriately stated as, "If humans metabolized alcohol without intoxication, would your wine consumption change?"

[Brandon R]

I voted near zero. I think Steve Overy said it very well.

[David Glasser]

As long as we’re making up magical impossible hypotheticals, here’s my ideal: on a glass by glass basis, be able to remove the alcohol from wine with no effect on taste or smell. Once you’ve reached that perfect level of enjoyment, just add a little packet to that next glass.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

As of this moment, there are 56 liars on this poll.

I am almost at the same place as you, Anton. I find the responses of no change or an increase very surprising, almost incomprehensible. I am tempted to make some facetious comments about denial, delusion and the effects of alcohol on these respondents but I will refrain (see what I did there). I suppose there are some relatively unique circumstances where someone tastes entirely for the sensory related pleasure, but I find it incredulous that such a large portion of the respondents would say that. Another WOW !!!.

Nice to see some lucidity in this thread.

+1

[Brandon R]

+2

[Alan Rath]

As of this moment, there are 56 liars on this poll.

I am almost at the same place as you, Anton. I find the responses of no change or an increase very surprising, almost incomprehensible. I am tempted to make some facetious comments about denial, delusion and the effects of alcohol on these respondents but I will refrain (see what I did there). I suppose there are some relatively unique circumstances where someone tastes entirely for the sensory related pleasure, but I find it incredulous that such a large portion of the respondents would say that.

I can't tell you how many evenings I'm really enjoying a wine, would like to have another glass while reading, watching TV, etc., but recognize that more alcohol is not a good thing that late in the evening (or for my liver, sleep pattern, calories). If I could get exactly the same experience, but not have to worry about EtOH, I would absolutely drink more.

[Robert.A.Jr.]

Yea but at your age, Alan, then you be up 3x that evening emptying your bladder! See, alcohol is a good thing.

[Jeremy C]

I think a useful corollary to this discussion would be a want for wine to simply have a lower amount of alcohol. If my average bottle consumed was around 5-7% instead of 12-15%, I’d be a happy man. I romanticize the idea of consuming an entire bottle (and thereby follow its evolution during that time) over a few hours, but the alcohol prevents that from happening, without significant negative side effects.

[Tom G l a s g o w]

I think a useful corollary to this discussion would be a want for wine to simply have a lower amount of alcohol. If my average bottle consumed was around 5-7% instead of 12-15%, I’d be a happy man. I romanticize the idea of consuming an entire bottle (and thereby follow its evolution during that time) over a few hours, but the alcohol prevents that from happening, without significant negative side effects.

Riesling is your friend, specifically Kabinett.

[Frank Murray III]

Interesting thread. I seek out lower ABV wines for most of the things I drink now, as it's easier on my 'ol body and palate these days. But, I do enjoy the social component of the beverage and also like the thought that I can't decouple alcohol from what it adds to wine. So, if this is going to work as a premise, then the textural and sensory inputs of alcohol need to be replaced, and if that is not possible logically and in reality, than my answer Approach Zero is how I voted.