Thoughts on Washington reds in general (via TN rants on CT)...

I bought a few bottles from Full Pull Wines recently and, in entering them in CellarTracker, I decided to look at that particular wines’ notes. Noting one that was lower than I anticipated (an 80, no biggie, this was an inexpensive wine), I decided to read a little more. I found the TN interesting in that it’s partially an rant against Washington State wines. I then clicked on this user’s other TNs and noted two other Washington wines he/she drank (oddly enough, as much as he/she appears to hate Washington wine, two of the three he/she liked!). There was a similar mini-rant in another one. I find it mildly annoying when one goes on an editorial journey in public TNs but, hey, that’s what one can do with an outlet like CT. My question is more around how this community feels about the rants. Here are the excerpts:


This wine embodies the traits of a typical Washington red: gooey, syrupy texture; too much alcohol; and indistinct bouquet and varietal character for too high a price. Mediocre. Washington needs to be itself and stop pretending to be Napa, Bordeaux, or worst of all, the southern Rhone. Northwest reds have driven me to buy more reds from France, Italy, and Spain. They are better made, easier on my system, more varied, and aside from the grotesque prices in Bordeaux and Burgundy, are better deals. It is ludicrous to be asked to pay $30 to $60 for a NW “GSM,” when for under $15 you can get the real thing, and it’s twice as good. Washington wines suffer from a pandering press, parochial boosterism, and vintners’ indistinct vision and impatience. The French, e.g., have been making wine for centuries and it shows.


That’s actually the entire TN for that particular wine (the one I bought). Here’s part of another, in which he/she actually likes the wine but still manages to insert a jab:


This luscious red is a standing reproach to the scads of Washington vintners who are desperately trying to prove that nothing enhances a Bordeaux blend like - Syrah! Right. With no Syrah - none - not any - Matthews has created not a faux Bordeaux, but a delicious meritage, worthy of your next porterhouse, hanger or flatiron, rack of lamb, or pheasant. It combines the five traditional Bordeaux varietals, all five, into a wine that you will not confuse with a Ch. Leoville las Cases. But then, why would you want to? This deep, dark, full wine Brings It - at a fraction of what you would pay for a lesser wine, like a Leonetti current generation Merlot, or a Betz blend, not to mention any number of chronically overrated and wildly overpriced wines. Did a sacred cow just get tipped? Oh well.


I don’t agree with what is posted. I drink a lot of, and thoroughly enjoy, Washington reds. The majority of my cellar is Washington, Oregon, and California with WA being the highest percentage. While there are certain wines that display the, “…gooey, syrupy texture, too much alcohol…indistinct bouquet and varietal character at too high a price…”, I find that to be the vast minority. Many times, Washington is where I go specifically to find relative bargains in domestic reds. Anyway, I’d appreciate hearing this group’s thoughts on the subject.

From my experience his/her overall impression of Washington reds across the state’s entire portfolio (as a proportion) probably isn’t too far off the mark. However, for that reason, I’ve tried to find producers who make wines in a bit leaner and more terrior-driven style. I think to cast the entire industry in this style of winemaking is just lazy. He/she should take the time to find the right producers for his/her palate, because they are certainly out there. But the criticism seems to go well being just winemaking, and into site selection and varietal choice, etc. Certainly these things take some time to work out and I think a lot more thought and planning has gone into this over the last decade or two than in the past. I am not a big fan of WA reds but I will admit there are many that are outstanding (just not as a proportion of overall production, IMHO).

I am a big fan of WA red wines but everyone is entitled to their views and individual preferences vary significantly. I view most rants against wines that I like as just that… rants. They don’t change the reality of what I prefer. It is a bit bothersome when a person starts “preaching” that their preferences are superior to yours.

As a gross generalization, I find them to be less gooey, syrupy, and with too much alcohol than many of their Napa brethren but not needing fifteen years to come around like their French and German ancestors. I’m still finding exactly what I like but I seem to like cool climate grapes from a cool climate, (77% of my cellar is from France, Germany, and Italy). I do get many of the wines I intend to drink in the near term from WineBid and it seems to have a disproportionate amount of Californian wines–but in terms of new wines the only thing I’m buying from Cali is Mike Smith wines, Arcadian, Outpost (though not sure I’ll continue after the sale), and some North Coast stuff that I’m still experimenting with. I’m buying tons of wines from Washington and Oregon though. As another gross generalization, I really believe that in many years, California is too hot to grow cool climate grapes–and it’s only getting hotter. Right now I think Oregon and Washington are the sweet spot in terms of climate, price, and terroir. Once many of the vines get older (assuming it also doesn’t get too hot and I start looking to Okanagan) I think Washington will be making wines on par with the best of the best. Some are damn close already. I love Full Pull almost as much as Envoyer, Down to Earth, and Fass Selections.

Also have to think you’re BRR on the last post on this thread. It’s cool that you’re into polyamory, but we are all a bit hurt and it feels like we are just the mistress:
https://www.cellartracker.com/forum/tm.asp?m=23529&mpage=124

Haha…nice work, Josh. You’re a regular sleuth! Nobody wanted to discuss in that other thread! CT happens to be far more Washington-oriented than WB, so I found this to likely be a very different take.

Back to the original topic, I think there are a few clear wineries that can be quite polarizing in their style. Take K Vintners for example. Their scores lately have been through the roof, and from several different publications. That said, they’re (generally) made in a bigger, riper style. To me, though, they’re the exception to the rule. I like them, but can totally see how some would taste syrup and booze. I’d love to have that author taste a Cadence red and tell me what he/she thinks.

My long time favorite WA red producer is Woodward Canyon which produces medium weight cabs that can trend towards Bordeaux. The chard can be good as well. I also think the Matthews Claret can be a decent drink if you can source at around $30.

It’s good to spice things up and we know we are more ggg than those prudes; just buy us dinner and break the nice stuff out of the cellar every now and then. As another gross generalization, something I dislike about Washington is that there seems to be many more vintners that buy their grapes from winegrowers that are far away. It seems many “wineries” are located in Seattle–but getting their grapes from Yakima Valley. It leads me to believe that they aren’t as involved with the growing of the grapes as I’d like and that the grapes aren’t being picked early in the morning and into the fermentation tanks before it get’s too warm in the afternoon. You would think this industrial area outside of the suburbs of Seattle was as good terroir as Margaux and Morey by the amount of wineries: Google Maps

Nope, the grapes are just being trucked in from far away. I suppose I could open a Washington winery here in Ohio?

Brandon, you should pm the poster and suggest they just do a regular TN and come over to WB for the ranting, they would feel at home over here. CT is a feel good site where ruffling feathers is frowned upon. I personally gravitate to the cool vintages, but bought many jammy versions in the past which are enjoyed by others. I just open an OR PN for myself and anyone liking something more acid, thin and restrained AFWE style.

I don’t own a single bottle of wine from Washington. I too – no doubt unfairly – have painted with too broad a brush that the wines are a bit big and '90s Aussie-like for my palate, based on some fruit-bomb Syrahs I had a decade or so ago.

I would appreciate any recs for lower-alcohol, rocky and savory Syrah from newer producers in Washington. If it’s any help, for New World syrah I enjoy Rhys, Enfield, etc. TIA

A new discovery for me is Terra Blanca Syrah. It may work for you.

Reynvaan

I constantly see TNs when people try Reynvaan Syrah for the first time that they’er not, “concentrated” enough or are perceived as, “thin.” I find them to be very concentrated (just not purple and thick), lithe, acidic, very savory, and great. I was impressed by the Syrahs from Elephant Seven, a newer winery, and might fight your bill.

After looking at the very recently published writeup on Washington by Stephen Tanzer on Vinous, this was one TN for the 2015 Reynvaan Syrah Foothills Estate Reserve:

(25% new oak): Dark medium ruby. Rather Hermitage-like aromas of blackberry, licorice pastille, violet and slate. Less high-toned, aromatic and open-knit than the Syrah In the Hills, with its dark berry and spice flavors complicated by saline oyster shell and slatey mineral notes. Rather brooding and backward in the early going but still glossy and smooth–and not particularly oaky. Finishes firmly tannic but not dry, with lovely savory length and noteworthy vibrancy and lift. In a distinctly Old World style, and not particularly sweet. (Matt Reynvaan also showed me an early barrel sample of a component of the 2017 Foothills Reserve. With its knockout scents of dark raspberry, gunflint, iodine and mocha; its superb concentration and sweetness–and flavor of bloody rare steak; and its compellingly long, sweet, vibrant finish, this was one of the most exciting lots of Washington Syrah in an Old World style that I have tasted to date. Stay tuned.) (14.2% alcohol) 93 pts

COME ON OVER!!!

Re: your perception, like everything, it depends. The best wineries, even those “based” over here in Western Washington (yes, a good 2-4 hours from the vineyards), have winemakers that spend most of the Spring and Summers in Central and Eastern Washington. Also, crush is sometimes done at facilities in Eastern Washington, and those spaces here near Seattle are just tasting rooms.

K vintners - The Hidden, The Beautiful, Cattle King

I don’t totally disagree with the tasting notes you reference.

The one thing I will say is that the quality of the vineyards and the winemaker varies greatly in WA. Also, it wasn’t all that long ago that Washington wines were predominately known for their high production (but fairly reasonable QPR) grocery store plonk.

My wife is from a growing wine region in WA and her father formerly worked in the wine industry there. I’ve spent quite a fair amount of time talking to a number of the vineyard owners/winemakers there. It amazes me how many seem to view this more as a commodity to appease the masses, yet their production is clearly on the smaller side. There seems to be a fear amongst these folks to go against what their “conventional” logic tells them.

I, personally, have found that a not insignificant number of farmers have decided to switch over from another crop (apples, cherries, potatoes, wheat, etc.) to wine grapes and have continued to farm in a style similar to these other crops, ie maximize crop weight, ripeness, etc. There seems to be a learning curve in growing wine grapes of quality that many of these farmers might not be prepared for or even expecting.

One thing that has long struck me as odd is the number of these folks who are not even that interested in wine themselves. One of my father-in-law’s friends who owns a winery doesn’t even like wine. He’s a mass-market American beer fan, not that there’s anything wrong with it.

I had the good fortune to taste a large line-up of Cayuse wines recently (OK, technically, they’re Oregon, but still Walla Walla Valley). They were excellent and balanced.

But the prices!?#*? Completely outlandish. Many times what you’d have to pay for equivalent quality in a Rhone.

The Foothills is a great place to start.

If you can find older vintages of Waters Forgotten Hills Vineyard, try that. Really funky and unique without being OTT. Gramercy Cellars bought the vineyard a few years back and is now producing a FH bottling. Have yet to try, but Gramercy makes really good Syrahs and would expect theirs to be as good or better than Waters.

Motor City Kitty

The Creator

Wines of Substance Cs

I like Washington wines, but last time I tasted at a bunch of places in Walla Walla it felt like a lot of wading through chocolately oak to find the wines I thought were really compelling. No more a “minefield” than anywhere else, but I find the freshness and zip that I gravitate toward in reds far more common in California and typically at better prices.
I do like Washington, though, and would happily drink a glass of Gramercy, K, Kerloo, Rasa, Maison Bleue etc. etc. any day if someone handed one to me.