Some Keller Rieslings victims of speculation

Its been a while but I had battles with some guys on the old Parker Board who hyped the Rieslings of Klaus Peter Keller. These people were very active on every Bulletin Board with some importance. The message was always the same. Kellers Rieslings are out of this world, incomparable to anything else and so forth. No exaggeration was big and absurd enough to describe the supposed superiority of these Rieslings.

While Kellers wines are superb without any doubt their lonely status as an otherworldly product is and was pure nonsense. It was clear to me that this hype machine had no other sense than putting the wines in an other price category. With the advantage for those who own a large quantity of the wines already. Or for those who needed another luxury brand like DRC, Petrus or Louis Vuitton etc. I tried to argument against these people what earned me harsh comments officially and insults per private mail.

I was not optimistic to win the battle. Today I have the confirmation that I actually lost it completely. I learned that a bottle of Keller 2004 Kirchspiel GG was sold at auction for north of 700 Euros. This is so absurd. I owned 6 bottles of the wine and have 2 left. While this is certainly a fine bottle of wine you can easily buy 10 bottles for 70 Euros that are equal or even superior. I hate the idea that wine is used for speculation. But itā€™s reality. I guess the next madness is already waiting.

Just another one on the list of formerly accessible wines.

While the wines are very good, I never got the hype. They just donā€™t resonate with me.

I think the wines are incredible. The dry wines are for me the best in Germany (others are close but no one else is consistently as good across the spectrum of wines they produce) and the fruity wines are up there with the best and consistently underrated. The hipping kabinett is consistently one of the best kabiā€™s produced.

I also think the wines are fairly priced. Theyā€™ve gotten cult-y, but I can think of 5 places in NYC where the 2017 kirschpiel and hubacker hit the shelves at well below $100 a bottle, which is not cheap but strikes me as fair. You didnā€™t have to be on a list like DRC buyers. You could walk in and grab them. The kellerkiste has inched up in price over the last few years but itā€™s still an amazing bargain and is offered for much, much less than it could bring. No one is passing it up at the prices offered and many would buy it if the price increased by 50% or more.

One of the things thatā€™s nice about Keller is that people are actually drinking them, and quite frequently. A mere mortal can share a kirschpiel or hubacker with friends, unlike Petrus or DRC. I did a 2016 Germany tasting a few weeks ago and there were too many people that wanted to bring Keller (the kirschpiel was the best wine of the tasting, although not the most expensive).

The auction result noted by the OP strikes me as an outlier.

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Alex,

the situation here in Germany is different. Its hard to come by Hubacker etc. And in Blind Tastings held in Germany with all the top producers Kellers wines are amongst the best but very often not on the very top of the list. BTW: G-Max is 4 figures already.

Well, it sounds like you think that the wines are both overpriced and not as good as some easily available alternatives. I would think that you would be thrilled with that situation. Why not just buy the other wines and leave the Keller to those who want to chase luxury goods? I think what you are saying boils down to something like ā€œI donā€™t like these wines very much and I am unable to get enough of themā€.
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Jurgen,

The prices of commodity wines are silly. But these are an effect of easy money generated by global central banks. In Europe ECB still has negative interest rates! One is paid to borrow money, however absurd that sounds!

Lots of cheap money is slashing around and drives up the prices of the so-called ā€œhyped winesā€. Until the cost of money normalizes, these absurd prices will continue. Too much money chasing too few goods. Wine is just a small fraction where this cheap money lands; look at prices of luxury homes in Germany, fine artā€¦

Alex,

you have to live with my opinion. I hate speculation. If its real estate or wine. And I know the negative effects for the consumers pretty well. Sorry if you have a problem with an attack regarding the Keller myth. I like Keller wines. I dislike the hype. And btw: Are you sure that you would be able to identify Keller Kirchspiel when I let you taste 10 Rieslings of the same caliber blind?

Hi Jurgen. When I did my 2016 tasting a few weeks ago I initially misidentified another wine as the Keller kirschpiel. When the Keller was served, I thought it was the top wine of the night and thought ā€œI had it wrong before - this is probably the Keller.ā€ Non-blind, generally I think the Schafer-Frohlich Felseneck is a better wine than Kellerā€™s Kirchspiel - at least for the vintages which Iā€™ve had both going back to 2010 - (but its not as good as some of the other GGs), although I would note that the Felseneck is more expensive than the Keller Kirchspiel. For other wines from Rheinhessen, I think the Kuhling-Gillot GGs have been very, very good recently. The Pettenthal and Hipping are about 2 euro per bottle less than the Keller Kirchspiel. They are stylistically different than Keller however. If I tasted a bunch of wines blind and thought that others were better than the Keller than I would most likely buy them.

And I have no problem with any attack on the Keller myth or any issue with your opinion. I just donā€™t think it makes much sense to say that the wines arenā€™t very good while lamenting the inability to get them. If there are other better or comparable wines at lower or comparable prices, then it seems like you are in a great position. I donā€™t buy much of Egon Mullerā€™s wines. They are incredibly expensive and I donā€™t think the quality is better than comparable producers. But I have no problem with the prices. In fact, Iā€™m thrilled that others seem to think the wines are worth chasing while leaving Lauer and Zilliken for me at very reasonable prices. I think of my idiosyncratic preferences as a real buying opportunity. If you were saying ā€œI think Keller makes the greatest white wines in the world and Iā€™m annoyed that the prices have gotten so out of controlā€ then I would understand what you are saying.
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i didnā€™t see it anywhere on a shelf and pretty much all the places that put it online for $80-100 sold out immediately (never saw more than 2 bottles of each available either). manhattan wine company sold kischpiel for $130! it seems the market upswing hit very suddenly. i love the wines in the $50-60 range but pushing $100 for the entry ggā€™s is getting too steep.

They sat at Manhattan Wine Company for about 4 days at the price. I thought that was too much as well. But there were lots of opportunities to buy right off the shelf and I bought from three stores that way. I bought magnums off the shelf at vintry fine wines when I randomly stopped by when walking my dog and they had 750s as well. I bought a few bottles from vanderbilt. Quantities were tiny everywhere, but that is just Germany 2017.
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Meh. Prices are what they are. Von see Fels and Limestone are lovely wines and Ā£20 or less. Many of us will get our Kellerkiste for well under the ā€˜market priceā€™ of a bottle of GMax and will drink them all gladly.

I guess you have an axe to grind for some reason.

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I donā€™t think this is speculation if people are drinking the wine - and it seems they are.

I will agree that I think speculation isnā€™t good for people that love the winesā€¦and I count myself as one that loves the wines. Itā€™s not that there arenā€™t other great GG wines from Germany. Itā€™s that these are the ones that I prefer. I donā€™t like the Schafer-Frohlich Felseneck GG, because for me itā€™s too bold and powerful. Itā€™s not what I want or am looking for. I similarly love other wines that Iā€™ll buy as long as I can afford themā€¦but sadly I think the Keller wines are soon to be far beyond what even I think theyā€™re worth. Were they under-priced for their quality? I certainly think soā€¦but once theyā€™re out of my price range or beyond the value I think they offer Iā€™ll look for others that I can still enjoy in my price range.
I tend to think of these wines like the Burgundies of the collectors before me. I know people that bought Rousseau, Raveneau, and Roulot (even I remember when Roulot was under $50) and they wouldnā€™t sell the bottles they have. I canā€™t imagine selling the remaining bottles of Keller that I do haveā€¦especially if I canā€™t afford to keep buying them.

Alex - JĆ¼rgen never said the wines were not very good. He never said anything like that.

Thanks Jurgen and others, very interesting read here for me as I am only in my early exploratory stages of German Riesling. Iā€™ve had very little Kellerā€“a 2011 Hubacker, tasted 3 years ago, was good but seemed to need more time. I was entranced by a 2014 von der Fels. From April 2016:

ā€œAnd ā€œwon-der-fulā€ works. Man was this good. Slate and lemon balm and apple all find their way up the snoot. This is crystal-clean to taste, with more lemon and unripe apple and a very steely and washed-stone underlay, and it has length to spare. Fantastic stuff, and I never use the word ā€œfantasticā€ with the words ā€œGerman Rieslingā€. I will need to connive to source more.ā€


To be fair, since tasting much more German in the intervening time, this note may be out of time and place now, but I would very willingly retaste to find out!

not very good for the price. that is the crux of his argument.

JĆ¼rgen - I am not sure I get your point? One lone bottle of 2004 sold for a crazy price. BTW Klaus-Peter recently posted of photo of this wine and a positive of review of 2004s so that might have something do to with it.

Keller might be the largest holding in my cellar and I think they are incredible good values across the Board. Von der Fels and the other various bottles like the RR or KR are all great wines and well under $50 that can age. Kirchspiel and Hubacker have gone up in price yet are still under $100 which compared to other top German producers (e.g., Von Winning) is still more than fair and I hate this argument but compared to Burgundy it is not even close.

And even though you see G-Max listed for 4 figures they rarely sell. A shop in Manhattan had a 2015 listed for $1200 because they had no idea how to price it and just went by wine-searcher. I asked if they could do any better and they said sure how about $600.

I would love to see what 4 cases of G-Max or 04 Kirchspiel would sell for at auctionā€¦

Is anything good for $700?

Yes. Keller Pettenthal GG.

I am glad you are fortunate enough to think so.