I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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Jay Miller
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#51 Post by Jay Miller » November 9th, 2018, 6:48 am

In the under $10 category I highly recommend the delicious La Vieille Ferme Blanc. I once put it into a blind wine flight and guesses were all at a much higher price point.

Moving up a little in price Muscadets from Marc Ollivier and Luneau Papin are ridiculous values as are Vouvrays from Pinon. All of these will be ageable for pretty much as long as you like.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#52 Post by Michae1 P0wers » November 9th, 2018, 7:08 am

ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:29 pm
J Dove wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:23 pm
My impression is that California isn't where it's at if you want really good red wine for less than $15. Lots of very high production industrial stuff... Not knowing where you live, you might try to find a Total Wine. While they sell LOTS of plonk -- there's a good bit of high quality and inexpensive wine from the regions I suggested. Try 2014 Lanessan Haut Medoc from Bordeaux, for example. I'd explore Spain, too.
Thanks for the great info. I just updated my profile with my location. I know we have lots of good wine places around so I will have to start exploring. A LOT to learn!
I'll pile on that California cabernet is going to be tough at that price point. I know some on this board have suggested the Charles Smith Cabernet from Washington as a low price point cab that delivers some quality. Washington state in general may have cabs, merlots and blends that deliver what you want for less money than California.

As mentioned, for richer reds Spain is a good bet at an inexpensive price (also good for more classically styled or restrained reds at that price, particularly Rioja). Another good spot for inexpensive reds with a lot of body is Portugal. There are fewer on the shelves but they can offer interesting blends and some can often be found that are in your price range. Australia has always excelled in the bigger reds at low price category as well. The wines might eventually seem simple but if you want big fruit there is a lot of that. The south of France too Languedoc, Roussillon, etc., and also Cotes du Rhone.

Another thing I'd look for is a retailer in your area that has frequently closeout or clearance stock from distributors. This can take some sleuthing but that can be half the fun. Use Cellartracker when you buy to get an idea of the style of the wine; I'd suggest focusing on the notes people add for the wine and not the numerical score, particularly if there aren't a lot of entries for a given wine. Searching here is also helpful. There are a bunch of threads here on "QPR" wines or "everyday" wines or some variation on that theme. Most of those aren't big reds, but it's also a good idea to branch out a bit and try new things.

Lastly, if you do dive deeper in you may want to prepare yourself for blowing that budget. The step from drinking a $12 cab to justifying a $25 bottle can be deceptively easy, especially if it happens incrementally. There is a lot of good wine out there under $20, and this board can help find it, but I think a lot of it is in a more old world style that is less

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#53 Post by GregT » November 9th, 2018, 8:09 am

I generally like big, thick cabs but can’t afford them. . . . I generally stick to California wines, but am willing to experiment. I do like Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and some Merlots but prefer Cabs.


If you stick to CA wines you'll drink by grape variety. Don't get hung up on that. And most people wouldn't know the dif between a Merlot and a Cab if given them without being told. At your price point, it's likely you've had a specific type of Merlot and the cheaper ones tend to be flabby and not too good. Same with Pinot Noir. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking la Crema, Meiomi, etc. Maybe not, but those aren't really good examples.

I agree with some of the recs - look to Argentina Cabs and Malbecs although those wines have been creeping up in price these days. Chile makes good Merlot and even Cabs as well, but the lower end wines aren't particularly good IMO as they tend to be both green and overripe at the same time. Australia used to be a good source, but it's also moving up in price and again, you'll be paying more than $12 for any of those.

But if you don't worry about the varieties, the south of France has many wines that are relatively "big", although not quite like Cabs. And there are a few from south Italy you might want to look for and especially Spain. You can find wines from the Ribera del Duero that are more expensive than many CA Cabs, but also many that are one third to one half the price that I'd drink in preference any day, and do. Napa Cab drinkers tend to get stuck buying Napa CA Cabs over and over but there's wine that is often cheaper and IMO better elsewhere. That's academic though, because at your price point, you're not in Napa - it's just not possible to get wine at that price. But you've discovered Lohr, which is not from Napa, so you're on the right track anyway - look to Washington and other parts of CA.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#54 Post by Doug Schulman » November 9th, 2018, 9:27 am

For $8-$12/bottle, southern France and southern Italy are great places to focus on. I'd find a good local wine shop (NOT Total Wine) and go with their suggestions. If it's a good shop, they should have several options in this price range that are not the mass produced stuff you see in supermarkets and hopefully bring in something new from time to time. Hopefully you can find a couple of good shops for greater selection. Buy mixed cases if there's a discount. Even though I knocked supermarket wine, there are big exceptions. La Vieille Ferme was mentioned upthread. The white, red, and rosé are all pretty solid and can be found for around $7-$10, depending on your market.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#55 Post by Dave McCloskey » November 9th, 2018, 10:59 am

J Dove wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:57 pm
Bdklein wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:14 pm
ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:08 pm
...but I’ll just start with 1 at a time! I don’t have the resources to purchase high dollar wine. I usually drink what I buy on a monthly budget of $100. I ususally buy 8-10 bottles with this much. What would you buy if you only had $100 a month and drank 2-3 bottles a week???

Looking forward to getting to know you good folks.

I'd buy beer.

That's an uninformed and unhelpful response.

When I graduated from college, I caught the wine bug from working in a package liquor store owned by a wine lover. I regularly bought absolute shit at the time. But, I learned a lot. Today, nearly 30 years later, I can assure you that for the SAME price I was paying then, you can buy wine that is orders of magnitude better. The quality of $10-$15 wine today -- particularly from places like Spain, Beaujolais, the Loire Valley (Muscadet!), the Languedoc and Corsica, Portugal, and Italy dwarfs what was available in the States back then.

You're in a golden era for wine. My suggestion: find a high quality retailer with a broad selection who has experienced staff (or prolific shelf-tags) and operates on low margins. Experiment like I did. You'll find that you can drink very, very well for under $15 today. Tonight, I sampled three wines -- a ~$70 Bordeaux, a $45 Freisa from Piemonte, and a $14 Corsican Red from Domaine Petroni. The cheapest wine was showing the best tonight.

Anyone who thinks you can't swing what you're trying to do doesn't know what they're talking about. Period.

Cheers,
JD
Clay - I think JD has given you some solid advise. We do need to know what you like and what you've been experimenting in, to give you more granular information.

I'd add the following... cut down on quantity by a couple of bottles per month and up the ante on quality.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#56 Post by J.Vizuete » November 9th, 2018, 11:02 am

ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:12 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:22 pm
Welcome! Can you tell us what you have liked? Oceans of good, inexpensive wines out there.
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I don’t drink anything carbonated so beer is out :)

I generally like big, thick cabs but can’t afford them. I have had some great ones but didn’t have to pay...one of the best I can remember was a Magnus? (this was years ago and I guess I have mistaken the name but I thought this was it from California $199 per bottle at a business function). My “go to” is J. Lohr. I generally stick to California wines, but am willing to experiment. I do like Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and some Merlots but prefer Cabs. Thanks again! newhere
Try McManis Petite syrah. Usually priced between $9-11. Widely available, family owned but large production, and fits your description pretty well at that price point. Go for vintages with lower yield like 2015 if you have the option.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#57 Post by J.Vizuete » November 9th, 2018, 11:05 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:44 pm
ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:16 pm
So, what are some big cabs from California to check out? Below $50...and I don’t have a friend with a helicopter...
I'd check out Australia, Spain, Chile, Argentina, and even Bordeaux before I started looking at California.
Agree with Nathan on this one. Lots of great wines from priorat that may fit your palate. Look for "Black Slate" or Gine-gine around $15
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#58 Post by J.Vizuete » November 9th, 2018, 11:09 am

Jim Stewart wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:08 am
ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:12 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:22 pm
Welcome! Can you tell us what you have liked? Oceans of good, inexpensive wines out there.
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I don’t drink anything carbonated so beer is out :)

I generally like big, thick cabs but can’t afford them. I have had some great ones but didn’t have to pay...one of the best I can remember was a Magnus? (this was years ago and I guess I have mistaken the name but I thought this was it from California $199 per bottle at a business function). My “go to” is J. Lohr. I generally stick to California wines, but am willing to experiment. I do like Pinot Noir and Chardonnay and some Merlots but prefer Cab. Thanks again! newhere
Reminds me of the time I "treated" my wife to business class on one of her overseas flights. She will never look at coach the same way, and this has become the source of some (heated?) conversation as we plan flights. . .
Back to your request. I think you have a lot of decent comfort in coach, I mean a lot of choice of wine in the $10-$12 +/-. Some of it very enjoyable, a lot of it "meh". There a big world of wine out there, so it helps to get advice and you will get some on this forum. Ignore the comments that seem discouraging and sift through for suggestions. Since you prefer Cab, I suggest you give "Substance CS" a test drive. Might be slightly above your average price range but it is very good. If you are open minded, and are near a Costco, I would also suggest trying Kirkland Cotes du Rhone Villages (red) and Kirkland Ti Point Sauvignon Blanc (white). These are both about $7, and will give you room to "splurge" on occasion (well maybe not on first class !) [cheers.gif] -Jim
P.S. Welcome!
This is a good suggestion. Find a local wine store with a good rep/buyer who offers tastings. I think it's far easier to learn about your preferences and wine in general when you can taste multiple wines at a setting rather than a single bottle in isolation. Also, view each bottle as an educational experience. Spend time thinking about the characteristics of the wine and jot them down. Half the enjoyment can be lost if you don't pay close attention..
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#59 Post by Neal.Mollen » November 9th, 2018, 11:12 am

I have heard (but have not tested) that the varietal wines at Trader Joes are very well made for the price, and I suspect the price would be in the $10-15 range. Worth picking up a bottle next time you are in one?
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#60 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » November 9th, 2018, 11:14 am

Markus S wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:41 am
Jeff Vaughan wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 5:55 am
... I think one of the reason that it is easier to find better, inexpensive whites is that they are often done in stainless steel, eliminating the cost of barrels, and allowing the grape and terroir to show. I tend to like high acid, crisp whites though, so I am probably biased.
True enough, but try to find character in these wines and they will be lacking. Most of the whites in the bargain category are not ones that will age very well and are made more for quaffing than something you would seriously cellar and learn from.
I don’t think the OP has the money to study the tragedy of premox’d burgundy.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#61 Post by J Dove » November 9th, 2018, 3:44 pm

Markus S wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:41 am
Jeff Vaughan wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 5:55 am
... I think one of the reason that it is easier to find better, inexpensive whites is that they are often done in stainless steel, eliminating the cost of barrels, and allowing the grape and terroir to show. I tend to like high acid, crisp whites though, so I am probably biased.
True enough, but try to find character in these wines and they will be lacking. Most of the whites in the bargain category are not ones that will age very well and are made more for quaffing than something you would seriously cellar and learn from.

I get that no one should try to build a cellar from $15 white wine. To say they don't have any character or that you can't learn from them... tougher position to take there...
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#62 Post by Eric S n y d e r » November 9th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Is Costco an option?
CS Substance has been mentioned
There’s usually a Crianza Rioja in that range
NZ Pinot Noir
Usually a Chianti
I usually like Kirkland brand reds. Gigondas, CA reds, etc

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#63 Post by W. Leonard » November 9th, 2018, 4:35 pm

I would think seeking out Jorge Ordonez imported wines would be a good option. They should be in your market and some of his lower priced Spanish reds are big and rich!
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#64 Post by Nathan Smyth » November 9th, 2018, 6:18 pm

ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:12 pm
I generally like big, thick cabs
ClayS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:16 pm
So, what are some big cabs from California to check out? Below $50...and I don’t have a friend with a helicopter...
If you really want to throw down $50, then the 2015 Austin Hope [below] is what you're looking for.

Grab a bottle for Thanksgiving.

But here are some other ideas:

Big Opulent Cabernet

Mollydooker Maitre D'
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... ker+maitre
$20-$25
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/moll ... itre/1/usa

Scattered Peaks
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... ered+peaks
$30-$45
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/scat ... eaks/1/usa

Mollydooker Gigglepot
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... =gigglepot
$35-$45
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/gigglepot/1/usa

2015 Austin Hope
https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=2801271
$40-$50
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/austin+hope/1/usa

Leaner More Classic Cabernet

Miguel Torres Gran Coronas Reserva
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... as+reserva
$17-$22
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/torr ... erve/1/usa

Powers Champoux
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... s+champoux
$24-$40
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/powe ... poux/1/usa

Wynns Black Label
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... k+cabernet
$25-$45
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/wynns+black/1/usa

Philip Togni Tanbark Hill
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp? ... nbark+hill
$30-$70
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/tanbark+hill/1/usa

.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#65 Post by H Bongiovi » November 9th, 2018, 6:47 pm

2014 Rio Madre Rioja: made from 100% Graciano; mid-weight; dark red fruit; nicely balanced, wonderful quaffer that way over-delivers for $8.99 (14% etoh)
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#66 Post by H Bongiovi » November 9th, 2018, 6:49 pm

'15 Faiveley Bourgogne Rouge: lithe with bright red fruit; $16.98
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#67 Post by H Bongiovi » November 9th, 2018, 6:55 pm

Colosi Nero d'Avola: pretty consistent across vintages; dark red fruit with some earthy and herbal notes; usually pick up between $9-11
Last edited by H Bongiovi on November 9th, 2018, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#68 Post by GregT » November 9th, 2018, 6:57 pm

I have heard (but have not tested) that the varietal wines at Trader Joes are very well made for the price, and I suspect the price would be in the $10-15 range. Worth picking up a bottle next time you are in one?
I tried with Trader Joes a number of years ago. They weren't on the east coast at the time, so first time I was out west and able to fine one, I picked up some of their wine. Really wanted to like it. Opened a bottle and poured a glass for my wife and myself. Spit it into the sink as fast as I could. It was like Meiomi Pinot Noir.

I've heard that some are better, but it's not something I ever checked into again.

Costco gets some good reviews - WS gave the Kirkland Cab 90 points. Not sure of the price point but might be an option.

Ans someone up thread mentioned Grocery Outlet. Probably 99 percent of their wine is crap but you never know - from time to time they load up on something that they got on clearance from a distributor or importer or winery that was cash-strapped. Supermarkets elsewhere get similar deals. You really have to know what you're looking for and I wouldn't send someone who was trying to learn, but I've discovered astonishingly good wines in off beat places like GO and Albertson's.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#69 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » November 9th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Let me make one more suggestion here before adding: It’s hopeless, you’re doomed - soon you will be buying a helicopter to fly into Screaming Eagle! Save some of your monthly budget for Berserker Day on January 27 and pick up some of the deals on the low end. There are some nice ones to be had.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#70 Post by Howard Cooper » November 9th, 2018, 10:02 pm

I used to buy my secretary several wines every year in that price range. The best I found (also bought these kind of wines for office parties) were from southern France, although there are good ones from Spain, Portugal and Italy as well. One importer has really has a lot of great wines in this price range (at least when one buys in case quantities) is Peter Weygandt (Weygandt Metzler) who has a wonderful store in this area - Weygandtwines.com

See if his wines are available in your area or contact Warren at this store and see if he can ship to you. My favorite is a wine by Charvin, who makes more expensive wines, but also a delicious wine in your price range.

For a white, try an Ugni Blanc called Domaine du Pouy.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#71 Post by John O' » November 11th, 2018, 6:28 am

Our very own Cameron Hughes (www.chwine.com) has great values, and if you hit the right sale...
Domaine Lafage Novellum Chardonnay hits way above it's price point
Many Chilean Cabs (see this weekend's Lettie Teague piece in the Wall Street Journal.)
Bogle wines are cheap and often pretty good.
Sometimes flash sites like Last Bottle, WTSO and Cinderella wine have good wines at that price point, particularly for Whites that are one or two vintages removed from the current Winery offering.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#72 Post by Tim Heaton » November 11th, 2018, 9:14 am

P@u1_M3nk3s wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 7:52 pm
Let me make one more suggestion here before adding: It’s hopeless, you’re doomed - soon you will be buying a helicopter to fly into Screaming Eagle! Save some of your monthly budget for Berserker Day on January 27 and pick up some of the deals on the low end. There are some nice ones to be had.
this
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#73 Post by ClayS » November 11th, 2018, 9:36 am

Wow thanks everyone for all the comments and recommendations! I have made a list and have looked up every wine mentioned on vivino and put them on my wishlist. How does everyone keep track of and manage so many different types of wine??? This is a bit overwhelming!
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#74 Post by Neal.Mollen » November 11th, 2018, 9:51 am

ClayS wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 9:36 am
How does everyone keep track of and manage so many different types of wine???
Truth is most don't. You'll find that most have one or two favorite regions, and perhaps a few secondary faves, not many outside the business pretend to know much about them all. The great thing about the board is that someone here has expertise on pretty much every wine region in the world. You can learn a lot just by reading.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#75 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » November 11th, 2018, 10:30 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 9:51 am
ClayS wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 9:36 am
How does everyone keep track of and manage so many different types of wine???
Truth is most don't. You'll find that most have one or two favorite regions, and perhaps a few secondary faves, not many outside the business pretend to know much about them all. The great thing about the board is that someone here has expertise on pretty much every wine region in the world. You can learn a lot just by reading.
Agreed.

About 90% of my "cellar" comes from three regions: Bordeaux, Northern Rhone, Loire. My top five holdings are all near or over 100 bottles each (Sociando, Baudry, Levet, Lanessan, Gonon). I'm probably more narrow-banded than many here, but I like what I like. And Clay, it takes some time to figure that out, but the exploration is the fun part. Yea, some duds along the way, and still, but always educational and generally enjoyable. I am smart enough to know that I cannot master all regions, so have sorta shied away from Burgundy and Italy, which are top choices for many here.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#76 Post by David Glasser » November 11th, 2018, 10:34 am

Yes it is overwhelming.

CellarTracker is a great tool for keeping tabs on what you have, what you've drunk, and things on your wish list.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#77 Post by Scott G r u n e r » November 11th, 2018, 10:42 am

Know that most people’s tastes will change over time. I started much as you and started on a lot of big inexpensive wines, rosemount diamond shiraz and the like... but as I learned more, moved away from wine as a cocktail and discovered the interaction of wine with food, my taste moved to other preferences and more complex and food friendly styles, many mentioned above.

Taste a lot. Try new things. Taste with and without food. Keep a diary (or cellartracker) on what you like or dont like.

Burgundy is a minefield. All roads lead to burgundy.

Go to tastings. Have fun. Dont drink and drive. Wear sunscreen, but make sure it is coral safe sunscreen.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#78 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » November 11th, 2018, 11:00 am

Portugal used to be a real go-to place for big, deep, full-bodied reds at bargain prices that still had character and interest and a sense of place. The Douro and more recently Dao. But over recent years I have seen prices for the better wines from those areas move up from $12-15 to $18-25 or even more at times. I think there are still good buys to be found there but probably hard to average $15, more like a $20 average.

Really, as many have indicated, it's just not a good idea to try to hit a $10-12 average price on reds. Just drink less wine and move up to an average of $16-20. If you don't want to spend more than $10 on reds you don't want good reds.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#79 Post by Howard Cooper » November 11th, 2018, 11:08 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 9:51 am
ClayS wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 9:36 am
How does everyone keep track of and manage so many different types of wine???
Truth is most don't. You'll find that most have one or two favorite regions, and perhaps a few secondary faves, not many outside the business pretend to know much about them all. The great thing about the board is that someone here has expertise on pretty much every wine region in the world. You can learn a lot just by reading.
+1
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#80 Post by Rich Salsano » November 11th, 2018, 11:27 am

Jaboulet Secrets du Rhône. Should be about $11 or so. Tough to beat at that price.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#81 Post by J Dove » November 11th, 2018, 2:46 pm

Scott G r u n e r wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:42 am
All roads lead to burgundy.
Not so sure that's true anymore -- unless you think a 'good' bottle of $100 village Burgundy is better than a great bottle of Barolo (or insert your favorite other region that hasn't seen such price inflation...).
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#82 Post by mmarcellus » November 11th, 2018, 6:56 pm

Marietta Old Vine Red (labeling itself as "OVR" these days) in the $10-$15 range is very good for the price

Same goes for Chateau L'Oupia les Heretiques from France, also in the $10-$15 range if you can find it.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#83 Post by ClayS » November 18th, 2018, 7:25 pm

Did my monthly $100 run to the wine store today. Asked “the wine guy” for advice for wines around $12 per bottle not napa. Had some notes from you guys. He steered me to the Marques de caceres 2014. But I looked 2 wines left and saw a 2016 rio madres someone recommended and picked it up.

The rio is much better. Thick but not too thick. Raspberry on the finish. Little coffee notes. Some apple too I think.

Please suggest some more great wines.....can’t imagine what you are drinking tonight more than $12 per bottle :)
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#84 Post by Rob Isaacs » November 19th, 2018, 5:02 pm

Colonia Las Liebres Bonarda, $8 to $10 a bottle. Good fruit and density if you are looking for a larger style wine, it's not Napa Cab but it is $8. One of the best value wines I've come across, very distinctive, should be available everywhere. Find good quality wine stores and go to as many, hopefully free, tastings as you can.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#85 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » December 21st, 2018, 5:33 pm

Glen Gold wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:29 pm
It's not cabernet, but for the most flavor, there's this crazy thing called Domaine Lafage Bastide Miraflors -- it's mostly syrah, and it has the rich taste you might like, but also a lot of extra gears, and it's $13, maybe the best $13 I've spent on wine: https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1322647
Thanks for this suggestion. I ordered this from wine library for $11.25 landed and it is really solid. It is really rich but tight upon opening. After a 5 hour decant, it lost some of its richness and brightness but the tannins softened a ton and was really nicely balanced. Crazy good QPR.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#86 Post by J a y H a c k » December 21st, 2018, 9:31 pm

Borsao. IMNSHO, the best wine under $8 a bottle (should be able to find for under $6) available. AND it ages!
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#87 Post by J a y H a c k » December 21st, 2018, 9:33 pm

Glen Gold wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:29 pm
. . . It's not cabernet, but for the most flavor, there's this crazy thing called Domaine Lafage Bastide Miraflors -- it's mostly syrah, and it has the rich taste you might like, but also a lot of extra gears, and it's $13, maybe the best $13 I've spent on wine: https://www.klwines.com/p/i?i=1322647
I bought about 4 cases of this and shared it with people in my office. They all loved it and come back to ask if I have more.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#88 Post by Howard Cooper » December 22nd, 2018, 4:32 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 10:02 pm
I used to buy my secretary several wines every year in that price range. The best I found (also bought these kind of wines for office parties) were from southern France, although there are good ones from Spain, Portugal and Italy as well. One importer has really has a lot of great wines in this price range (at least when one buys in case quantities) is Peter Weygandt (Weygandt Metzler) who has a wonderful store in this area - Weygandtwines.com

See if his wines are available in your area or contact Warren at this store and see if he can ship to you. My favorite is a wine by Charvin, who makes more expensive wines, but also a delicious wine in your price range.

For a white, try an Ugni Blanc called Domaine du Pouy.
An Italian wine in or around your price range you should try is Vajra Rosso.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#89 Post by Adam Frisch » August 14th, 2019, 8:54 pm

Rex Goliath is pretty good for sub-$10 price range. Gallo-owned. And hate them or love them, but Gallo tend to deliver better quality in the lower price brackets compared to many others.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#90 Post by J. Rock » August 14th, 2019, 9:44 pm

If you're very new to wine but want to explore/learn or just taste some nicer wine here and there, I think it's worth it to drink less and save up for somewhat nicer bottles that cost $20 - $30 (or even $15 will usually be an improvement over a $10 bottle). If you like to drink to relax a little, maybe get a bottle of decent liquor, to stretch your money out farther so you can get 3 - 4 solid bottles of wine/month. Everyone's different, but I'd personally rather have a few bottles wine I enjoy or really enjoy than a lot of bottles of wine I tolerate or think is OK. I definitely don't need to spend a ton/bottle to get something I enjoy, but I'd struggle to find many wines I really enjoy for about $10.

All this being said, however, my wife and I really enjoy Kung Fu Girl Riesling from Washington, which we can get a local grocery store for only $8/bottle when we buy 6 or more at a time. Even at most other places it will only be $11 or $12. Some on this site might look down on this wine, but we think it's a great house wine to always have on hand for when we want a guilt free weekday wine or if we've already opened a bottle or two of more expensive stuff earlier in the night. It's dry, with some citrus and a bit of petrol/funk. There's some quality variation from bottle to bottle, but overall, we're really happy with it, especially for the price.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#91 Post by GregT » August 15th, 2019, 12:44 am

Adam Frisch wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 8:54 pm
Rex Goliath is pretty good for sub-$10 price range. Gallo-owned. And hate them or love them, but Gallo tend to deliver better quality in the lower price brackets compared to many others.
And I was wondering how this thread came back to life.

Never heard from the OP again. One and done.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#92 Post by Kevin Porter » August 15th, 2019, 3:30 am

Have we established where you will be shopping? I agree with the nudge towards southern France and southern Italy, and also to establish a relationship with a good wine store. If you have no good wine stores ( for example, I live in PA) my trick is to learn Importers who bring in wines that I’ve liked. They differ regionally so my go tos may not be yours but our own Dan Kravitz’ Hand picked Selections is reliably good, as are LDM, Tery Theise and Kermit Lynch, though much of their lines will be over budget. Enjoy the exploration

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#93 Post by Howard Cooper » August 15th, 2019, 5:32 am

A couple of months ago, I tried a range of wines from a Sicilian producer named Alcesti. https://www.siemawines.com/alcesti The wines were presented to my Country Club's wine group by a representative of a distributor called Siema Wines. The wines were priced either at $7, $10 or $20. They were fabulous values for the price. My favorite of the $10 wines was the Frappato, but my guess is that people who like bigger wines than me would prefer the Cab or the Syrah. I thought the reds were a good bit better than the whites.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#94 Post by Chris Sargent » August 15th, 2019, 8:06 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 9:31 pm
Borsao. IMNSHO, the best wine under $8 a bottle (should be able to find for under $6) available. AND it ages!
I love reading posts like this! What's the oldest Borsao you've had? I just bought some of the rosé for a little getaway. And I have a little corner of my cellar space set aside for unusual aging experiments. I have a bottle each of some budget Bordeaux (2005 d'Aurilhac, Reignac, Faizeau - certainly could still be good), and some others as well (2003 Alain Paret "420 Nuits", and there might be a Clos de Siete or Pico Madama in there). Don't mean to hijack the thread... maybe I should start another discussion on this topic. Cheers, all.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#95 Post by John Morris » August 15th, 2019, 8:18 am

Kevin Porter wrote:
August 15th, 2019, 3:30 am
If you have no good wine stores ( for example, I live in PA) my trick is to learn Importers who bring in wines that I’ve liked. They differ regionally so my go tos may not be yours but our own Dan Kravitz’ Hand picked Selections is reliably good, as are LDM, Tery Theise and Kermit Lynch, though much of their lines will be over budget.
I agree -- I'm always checking importer labels. But those importers don't import wine along the lines that Clay says he likes, e.g., big cabs and wines like Joel Gott's.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#96 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » August 15th, 2019, 8:26 am

I agree. Robert Kacher would be a better bet for him as an importer to check out.

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#97 Post by J a y H a c k » August 15th, 2019, 8:33 am

Chris Sargent wrote:
August 15th, 2019, 8:06 am
J a y H a c k wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 9:31 pm
Borsao. IMNSHO, the best wine under $8 a bottle (should be able to find for under $6) available. AND it ages!
I love reading posts like this! What's the oldest Borsao you've had? I just bought some of the rosé for a little getaway. And I have a little corner of my cellar space set aside for unusual aging experiments. I have a bottle each of some budget Bordeaux (2005 d'Aurilhac, Reignac, Faizeau - certainly could still be good), and some others as well (2003 Alain Paret "420 Nuits", and there might be a Clos de Siete or Pico Madama in there). Don't mean to hijack the thread... maybe I should start another discussion on this topic. Cheers, all.
I had another one of these a few years later and it was just as good or maybe a little better, but I did not write a formal note.
  • 2002 Bodegas Borsao Campo de Borja Borsao - Spain, Aragón, Campo de Borja (2/19/2008)
    Hey! This stuff really ages. I was making beef stew tonight so this morning, after getting the other ingredients together in a pot, I pulled a bottle of 2002 Borsao and set it on the counter. At 5:00, I called my son, told him to uncork the wine, pour it into the pot, and put it in the oven. I asked him to leave a few ounces in the bottles for later. At 7:30, I uncorked the left over bottle on the counter and unceremoniously took a swig from the bottle, expecting to quench my curiosity more than my thirst. Intense and complex cherry and raspberry flavors with some pepper and spice. I poured the rest into a glass so I could write a proper note. Moderate red color but not opaque, a little like a dark ruby. Cherry on the nose. still the same palate. Tannins softened and sweet. No oak or vanilla. This is a bona fide very good to excellent wine, 88 pts without the QPR factor. I bought a case of this 4 years ago at Zachy's on sale for $4.59 per bottle. Best bargain since the $6 Le Montrachet I got in 1978. (88 pts.)
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Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#98 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 15th, 2019, 8:35 am

As mentioned, Rioja is an area where you can get very inexpensive (and "traditionally made") wines that give great pleasure.
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#99 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » August 15th, 2019, 8:35 am

This thread is from Nov 2018, and the OP hasn't posted on WB since Nov 2018.

I think he gave up! [truce.gif]
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Re: I’m New and have 1,000 Questions

#100 Post by Gray G » August 15th, 2019, 8:39 am

Wines of Substance, usually at costco $13
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