Never ending wine releases

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Alan Eden
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Never ending wine releases

#1 Post by Alan Eden » November 8th, 2018, 5:48 pm

Ugh

Picked up Myriad yesterday, email for next years date arrives today.

I love the wines and im not complaining about Myriad but sometimes the constant attention to wine lists can be relentless
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Josh Grossman
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#2 Post by Josh Grossman » November 8th, 2018, 6:37 pm

Any idea what the difference between A List and Tier One/Previous Supporters for Myriad is? I bought last year (2016) and would hope I get the A List?

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blarmston
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#3 Post by blarmston » November 8th, 2018, 6:47 pm

I hear ya, it can get ridiculous quick. I started the thread a month or so ago about taking a vintage off, and I’m happy to announce that my newfound discipline started today... With me deleting my first offer for 2017. Hey, gotta start somewhere right?
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Alan Eden
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#4 Post by Alan Eden » November 8th, 2018, 6:56 pm

A list is a very select group of long time buyers

Tier one is the release for previous buyers and gets full access to wine
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David Glasser
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#5 Post by David Glasser » November 8th, 2018, 11:01 pm

Take a few slow, deep breaths.
Highlight the offers.
One more deep breath.
Press the delete key.
You can do it.
One small motion.
There you go.
Another deep breath.
In through the nose.
Hold it.
Out through the mouth.
Now take your hand off the mouse.
Step away from the keyboard.
Turn around.
Breathe.
Go outside.
Take a walk.
Keep breathing.
You’re free!

(I accept Visa, Madtercard, and bottles of mailing list wine.)

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#6 Post by Sean Malloy » November 9th, 2018, 4:35 am

David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:01 pm
Take a few slow, deep breaths.
Highlight the offers.
One more deep breath.
Press the delete key.
You can do it.
One small motion.
There you go.
Another deep breath.
In through the nose.
Hold it.
Out through the mouth.
Now take your hand off the mouse.
Step away from the keyboard.
Turn around.
Breathe.
Go outside.
Take a walk.
Keep breathing.
You’re free!

(I accept Visa, Madtercard, and bottles of mailing list wine.)
This. So very much this. Awesome post.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#7 Post by Karl K » November 9th, 2018, 4:38 am

Sean Malloy wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:35 am
David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:01 pm
Take a few slow, deep breaths.
Highlight the offers.
One more deep breath.
Press the delete key.
You can do it.
One small motion.
There you go.
Another deep breath.
In through the nose.
Hold it.
Out through the mouth.
Now take your hand off the mouse.
Step away from the keyboard.
Turn around.
Breathe.
Go outside.
Take a walk.
Keep breathing.
You’re free!

(I accept Visa, Madtercard, and bottles of mailing list wine.)
This. So very much this. Awesome post.
Agreed!!

Please PM me so I can send you my MACDONALD bottles. 😀
K a z a k s

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D@vid Bu3ker
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#8 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » November 9th, 2018, 4:40 am

David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:01 pm
Take a few slow, deep breaths.
Highlight the offers.
One more deep breath.
Press the delete key.
You can do it.
One small motion.
There you go.
Another deep breath.
In through the nose.
Hold it.
Out through the mouth.
Now take your hand off the mouse.
Step away from the keyboard.
Turn around.
Breathe.
Go outside.
Take a walk.
Keep breathing.
You’re free!

(I accept Visa, Madtercard, and bottles of mailing list wine.)
Three clubs cancelled. Four offers deleted in the last two weeks.

Getting the shakes! ;)
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#9 Post by NickRut » November 9th, 2018, 5:59 am

It’s the cycle of wine buying. There’s really never an off season. I totally forgot about the Bedrock winter release as well as Lewelling. Then before you know it, January comes and it all starts again.

The big question for me is - how will the 17 Napa cabs be? Everyone is gushing about the 18 vintage being so pristine so not much mention. Might make passing, or placing a very small order, much easier next year.
Rutkowski

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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#10 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » November 9th, 2018, 6:19 am

Moving away from US and more towards European wines was a huge shift and allowed me to drop most of my lists.

Bdx has replaced Napa cabs, Riesling and Chenin Blanc have replaced many US whites. Sprinkling in champagne, Italian wines, and others has also helped. The only wines I tend to buy off lists now are zins (much less than previously as I'm loaded up), Oregon chardonnay, and a very select list of cabs, e.g. MacDonald.

What a relief as I find availability of the wines I buy now much greater, and the constant pressure to purchase a wine by a certain date is gone. I'm also diversifying my cellar much more, as I was in a rut of stockpiling certain producers due to repeated purchases to maintain my allocations.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#11 Post by Nate Simon » November 9th, 2018, 6:24 am

Scott, if one had told me ten years ago that I’d feel as you do, I would have laughed them out of the room.
Now, I feel exactly as you do. Funny how things evolve/change, eh?

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Sc0tt F!tzger@ld
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#12 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » November 9th, 2018, 6:27 am

Nate Simon wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:24 am
Scott, if one had told me ten years ago that I’d feel as you do, I would have laughed them out of the room.
Now, I feel exactly as you do. Funny how things evolve/change, eh?
Yep. I followed the standard "wine path" of many on this board. Started with the heavy Cali wines and then slowly moved east to another continent! My goal is to permanently rebalance my cellar to 70% European, 30% US. Still have a ways to go.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#13 Post by larry schaffer » November 9th, 2018, 6:34 am

I guess what everyone really needs to figure out is how much wine they plan on consuming over the next XXX years, how much they currently have in their cellars, and how much, if any, they plan on selling.

I totally get the 'I need to get that one' mentality - but at some point, you may amass more than you simply need or want and don't realize it . . .

Good luck, all!

Cheers
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#14 Post by Alan Eden » November 9th, 2018, 7:07 am

The hardest thing is always the fomo effect, 16s are great, 17s are suspect at best, now it seems 18's are great again so now you have three more years of buying !! it really is an addiction wether we admit to it or not. i am buying a lot of very good wine yet as with a lot of others of you told me to buy three cases of Krug and six cases of a good NV house and told me that was my yearly drinking thats two bottles of champagne a week on average i would be ecstatic and my spend would probably go down 30-50%. But when that Saxum, Alban, Tynan, Carter, Myriad, Andremilly etc email comes out im all over it regardless !!!
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#15 Post by J Dove » November 9th, 2018, 3:49 pm

The good news is, Alan -- since so many of those wines are best in their youth -- you don't need to have a big cellar!
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#16 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 9th, 2018, 4:43 pm

Sending out release emails and allocations is how wineries conduct their business. This is not a hobby for wineries - it is a necessity to stay in business. If you don't want the wine, delete the offer. The "Oh no, another offer" sounds like it is some kind of conspiracy to torment you. Business is business. Don't you receive multiple advertisements in your US Mail offering all kinds of goods at all kinds of prices for certain periods of time? Not really so much different from that, in my opinion.

And speaking as a grower/producer, my 2017 is awesome in barrel. It will be there until June. I harvested it on Labor Day, a full month before the fires. I really dislike when people paint with an insanely wide brush. One size does not fit all.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#17 Post by blarmston » November 9th, 2018, 4:55 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:43 pm
Sending out release emails and allocations is how wineries conduct their business. This is not a hobby for wineries - it is a necessity to stay in business. If you don't want the wine, delete the offer. The "Oh no, another offer" sounds like it is some kind of conspiracy to torment you. Business is business. Don't you receive multiple advertisements in your US Mail offering all kinds of goods at all kinds of prices for certain periods of time? Not really so much different from that, in my opinion.

And speaking as a grower/producer, my 2017 is awesome in barrel. It will be there until June. I harvested it on Labor Day, a full month before the fires. I really dislike when people paint with an insanely wide brush. One size does not fit all.
Huh? Kindly point me to the area in this thread that suggests it’s a ‘conspiracy’ to torment us? And also let me/us know the area in this thread that ‘paints with an insanely wide brush’?

Asking for a friend... 👌
Last edited by blarmston on November 9th, 2018, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#18 Post by PaulMills » November 9th, 2018, 5:06 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:43 pm
Sending out release emails and allocations is how wineries conduct their business. This is not a hobby for wineries - it is a necessity to stay in business. If you don't want the wine, delete the offer. The "Oh no, another offer" sounds like it is some kind of conspiracy to torment you. Business is business. Don't you receive multiple advertisements in your US Mail offering all kinds of goods at all kinds of prices for certain periods of time? Not really so much different from that, in my opinion.

This. 100%. We signed up for the lists, we know they are going to come two to three times a year. We asked for it and we love it most of the time.

I have been deleting more and more offers lately so I can buy more old world wines and simply spend less. There are some offers I feel it ‘necessary’ to buy some lists, but a lot I can pass some releases and manage to make it through life.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#19 Post by Michael Martin » November 9th, 2018, 5:41 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:43 pm
Sending out release emails and allocations is how wineries conduct their business. This is not a hobby for wineries - it is a necessity to stay in business. If you don't want the wine, delete the offer. The "Oh no, another offer" sounds like it is some kind of conspiracy to torment you. Business is business. Don't you receive multiple advertisements in your US Mail offering all kinds of goods at all kinds of prices for certain periods of time? Not really so much different from that, in my opinion.

And speaking as a grower/producer, my 2017 is awesome in barrel. It will be there until June. I harvested it on Labor Day, a full month before the fires. I really dislike when people paint with an insanely wide brush. One size does not fit all.
Yep, the truth.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#20 Post by blarmston » November 9th, 2018, 5:46 pm

I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree with the first half of her comment (second half being a plug for her wine, but all good). Just curious as to the insertion of ‘conspiracies’ and the accusation of people making blanket statements... No biggie in the grand scheme of things
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#21 Post by PaulMills » November 9th, 2018, 6:16 pm

blarmston wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 5:46 pm
I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree with the first half of her comment (second half being a plug for her wine, but all good). Just curious as to the insertion of ‘conspiracies’ and the accusation of people making blanket statements... No biggie in the grand scheme of things

She is a berserker Business, she gets to plug her wine. People are concerned about smoke taint. She simply stated that she harvested before the fires. Pretty simple.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#22 Post by Alan Eden » November 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm

I am not hating on anybody or anything.

Just a discussion about our hobby, no need to turn it nasty.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#23 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm

Alan Eden wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm
I am not hating on anybody or anything.

Just a discussion about our hobby, no need to turn it nasty.
How wide is your brush? I countered your comment that "2017s are suspect at best." I am in the business and not shy about stating it. You and others do not have to purchase my 2017 six months from now. But you do not get to throw random darts, totally missing the dart board, without expecting that someone will object to your gross (negative) overstatements.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#24 Post by Albert R » November 9th, 2018, 6:59 pm

Why bring up nasty??? This is a good topic with excellent input.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#25 Post by blarmston » November 9th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Who is ‘throwing darts’? And who is being ‘nasty’? And why is someone claiming some semblance of a ‘conspiracy ‘?

I consider myself a fairly educated person, but I. Am. Confused.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#26 Post by NickRut » November 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm
Alan Eden wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm
I am not hating on anybody or anything.

Just a discussion about our hobby, no need to turn it nasty.
How wide is your brush? I countered your comment that "2017s are suspect at best." I am in the business and not shy about stating it. You and others do not have to purchase my 2017 six months from now. But you do not get to throw random darts, totally missing the dart board, without expecting that someone will object to your gross (negative) overstatements.

Curious - have you tasted many other 17s besides your own? Really interested in any feedback you have. Hoping 17 is a good vintage but time will tell.
Rutkowski

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#27 Post by Alan Eden » November 9th, 2018, 10:43 pm

I know winemakers dont want to hear it but the buying public at least some of us will have some doubts about 17's, you cant change the perception that smoke damage is a real thing.
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#28 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 10th, 2018, 3:42 am

I’ll take a stab at this...I think what Merrill is suggesting is that many statements seem to be based on speculation with little experience. (Merrill, please correct me if I’m wrong) It’s making a statement without giving data to validate the opinion. Merrill offers some data in her statement by saying her wine tastes great and was harvested before the fires. If there’s someone that has tasted 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley Cabs and is finding smoke problems that would be more data...but right now all I’m seeing is speculation. Which, I think she’s objecting to the negative speculation if there is/has been no tasting data.

I think it’s reasonable for someone to get upset when others make a statement that would impact their job or financial stability without offering any real Data...

Maybe we should create a topic to post 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley cabs in to start getting some data?
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#29 Post by Scott Brunson » November 10th, 2018, 3:57 am

David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:01 pm
Take a few slow, deep breaths.
Highlight the offers.
One more deep breath.
Press the delete key.
You can do it.
One small motion.
There you go.
Another deep breath.
In through the nose.
Hold it.
Out through the mouth.
Now take your hand off the mouse.
Step away from the keyboard.
Turn around.
Breathe.
Go outside.
Take a walk.
Keep breathing.
You’re free!

(I accept Visa, Madtercard, and bottles of mailing list wine.)
How long is your waiting list?
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#30 Post by Mattstolz » November 10th, 2018, 5:59 am

I think the upcoming Bedrock release is a good example of this too. Literally in the email it says "Our next release is here, for people who ordered last release it should ship a couple days from now!"

haha at least let me get these last wines first!

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#31 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » November 10th, 2018, 6:36 am

I didn’t take Alan’s initial characterization of the last three vintages as a serious assessment, way too broad a statement for someone with his depth of wine knowledge.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#32 Post by Alan Eden » November 10th, 2018, 8:06 am

Tom

Totally agree, im just making a general point and it got taken way too seriously, i am not a wine expert I am just the run of the mill consumer
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#33 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 10th, 2018, 9:45 am

NickRut wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm
Alan Eden wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:26 pm
I am not hating on anybody or anything.

Just a discussion about our hobby, no need to turn it nasty.
How wide is your brush? I countered your comment that "2017s are suspect at best." I am in the business and not shy about stating it. You and others do not have to purchase my 2017 six months from now. But you do not get to throw random darts, totally missing the dart board, without expecting that someone will object to your gross (negative) overstatements.

Curious - have you tasted many other 17s besides your own? Really interested in any feedback you have. Hoping 17 is a good vintage but time will tell.
No, I have not tasted any other 2017s - I rarely go out tasting. After living and growing Cabernet here for 19 years, and being in the wine business for 15 years, I only go out tasting when friends come to town who WANT to do that. And when I do go out tasting, I go with the intention of tasting bottled goods that are available for purchase. But I know my wines very well, and I have loved my 2017 in barrel. I'm going to pull a barrel sample in two weeks to share with 6 other people. I will get feedback from them (they know my wines well) and post in this thread.

In addition to that, I know many wineries had their fruit in house before the October 8 fire started here in Napa. Many cellar workers and winemakers had to get police and fire escort into their wineries to tend to their wines that were undergoing fermentation. Fruit that was on the vines while the smoke was intolerable might have smoke taint. I know some have sent questionable samples out for lab testing so they know what's what, aside from taste.

The point is that armchair reviews and vintage-wide speculation of untasted wines is pretty much meaningless.
Merrill
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#34 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 10th, 2018, 9:54 am

Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:42 am
I’ll take a stab at this...I think what Merrill is suggesting is that many statements seem to be based on speculation with little experience. (Merrill, please correct me if I’m wrong) It’s making a statement without giving data to validate the opinion. Merrill offers some data in her statement by saying her wine tastes great and was harvested before the fires. If there’s someone that has tasted 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley Cabs and is finding smoke problems that would be more data...but right now all I’m seeing is speculation. Which, I think she’s objecting to the negative speculation if there is/has been no tasting data.

I think it’s reasonable for someone to get upset when others make a statement that would impact their job or financial stability without offering any real Data...

Maybe we should create a topic to post 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley cabs in to start getting some data?
You pretty much have it. And sometimes people think I am "upset" when I object to something. Feedback given to me over many years indicate my style of expression is extremely direct. I do not like misinformation and will object - just as anyone can - when I think someone knows little about what they are talking about.

You can read more about my take on 2017 in my other post asking which 2017s I have tasted.
Merrill
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#35 Post by NickRut » November 10th, 2018, 10:01 am

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:45 am
NickRut wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 8:33 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm
How wide is your brush? I countered your comment that "2017s are suspect at best." I am in the business and not shy about stating it. You and others do not have to purchase my 2017 six months from now. But you do not get to throw random darts, totally missing the dart board, without expecting that someone will object to your gross (negative) overstatements.

Curious - have you tasted many other 17s besides your own? Really interested in any feedback you have. Hoping 17 is a good vintage but time will tell.
No, I have not tasted any other 2017s - I rarely go out tasting. After living and growing Cabernet here for 19 years, and being in the wine business for 15 years, I only go out tasting when friends come to town who WANT to do that. And when I do go out tasting, I go with the intention of tasting bottled goods that are available for purchase. But I know my wines very well, and I have loved my 2017 in barrel. I'm going to pull a barrel sample in two weeks to share with 6 other people. I will get feedback from them (they know my wines well) and post in this thread.

In addition to that, I know many wineries had their fruit in house before the October 8 fire started here in Napa. Many cellar workers and winemakers had to get police and fire escort into their wineries to tend to their wines that were undergoing fermentation. Fruit that was on the vines while the smoke was intolerable might have smoke taint. I know some have sent questionable samples out for lab testing so they know what's what, aside from taste.

The point is that armchair reviews and vintage-wide speculation of untasted wines is pretty much meaningless.
Makes sense, thanks for addressing. Hopefully more is known by January around how things are looking.
Rutkowski

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#36 Post by Markus S » November 10th, 2018, 11:16 am

Mattstolz wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 5:59 am
I think the upcoming Bedrock release is a good example of this too. Literally in the email it says "Our next release is here, for people who ordered last release it should ship a couple days from now!"

haha at least let me get these last wines first!
Who's on first??!
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#37 Post by dsimmons » November 10th, 2018, 11:31 am

Dropping mailing lists is very difficult, especially for wines that you are really fond of. This has become a real problem for me as I have aged along with my favorite wine. My first step was to begin sharing allocations with our tasting group. This has worked well for expensive and hard to get wines. My second step was to delete wines which need cellar time beyond my planning horizon. Step 3 was to fine tune my purchases to match what I am actually drinking e.g. I was buying way too much Syrah. Step 4 will be to phase out all of my allocations completely and enjoy the cellar that I have built over the past 20 years.
D o n

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#38 Post by robert creth » November 10th, 2018, 1:20 pm

Part of the trouble I had with dropping of lists is the perception that I have a relationship with wine makers or producers. I sometimes think they would miss my few purchases, or be insulted that I don’t buy. What I had to realize is these are business relationships and I am not obligated to them anymore than they are to me. It is not for me to keep a winery in business. Dropping off lists this year gives me room to discover other wines that have been off my radar. The people I buy wine from are not my friends, the people I drink wine with, are.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#39 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 10th, 2018, 1:42 pm

robert creth wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 1:20 pm
Part of the trouble I had with dropping of lists is the perception that I have a relationship with wine makers or producers. I sometimes think they would miss my few purchases, or be insulted that I don’t buy. What I had to realize is these are business relationships and I am not obligated to them anymore than they are to me. It is not for me to keep a winery in business. Dropping off lists this year gives me room to discover other wines that have been off my radar. The people I buy wine from are not my friends, the people I drink wine with, are.
There is much truth in what you state here. No business likes to lose customers, but there is no obligation to buy. Maybe it is because my venture is so small, but I believe some of my customers are indeed friends. After all, we have something in common - a love of wine (and often food).
Merrill
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#40 Post by ClarkstonMark » November 10th, 2018, 2:05 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 6:34 am
I guess what everyone really needs to figure out is how much wine they plan on consuming over the next XXX years, how much they currently have in their cellars, and how much, if any, they plan on selling.

I totally get the 'I need to get that one' mentality - but at some point, you may amass more than you simply need or want and don't realize it . . .

Good luck, all!

Cheers
This is so true. I reached the point, and over 3-4 years I weened off all mailing lists. Some were hard to get off as I would like to support some of these producers, but I have more wine then I will ever drink, and kid's college bills are coming soon
Mark Cronmiller
White Lake, MI

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#41 Post by Alan Eden » November 10th, 2018, 7:54 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:54 am
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:42 am
I’ll take a stab at this...I think what Merrill is suggesting is that many statements seem to be based on speculation with little experience. (Merrill, please correct me if I’m wrong) It’s making a statement without giving data to validate the opinion. Merrill offers some data in her statement by saying her wine tastes great and was harvested before the fires. If there’s someone that has tasted 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley Cabs and is finding smoke problems that would be more data...but right now all I’m seeing is speculation. Which, I think she’s objecting to the negative speculation if there is/has been no tasting data.

I think it’s reasonable for someone to get upset when others make a statement that would impact their job or financial stability without offering any real Data...

Maybe we should create a topic to post 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley cabs in to start getting some data?
You pretty much have it. And sometimes people think I am "upset" when I object to something. Feedback given to me over many years indicate my style of expression is extremely direct. I do not like misinformation and will object - just as anyone can - when I think someone knows little about what they are talking about.

You can read more about my take on 2017 in my other post asking which 2017s I have tasted.
Part of the issue is that no winemaker ever says oh that was a crappy year, Merrill I dont recall you ever saying that any year of your wine was substandard ? you often say your 11's are excellent while most peoples are not so good. Wine is the result of a farm crop and there are good crops and bad crops, now a bad crop nowadays will make reasonable wine with some TLC but the great crop years will make better wine. I wish that winemakers would be a bit more honest instead of never admitting that yeah my baby was ugly that year.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#42 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 10th, 2018, 8:19 pm

You are a troll, Alan. It doesn't matter how candid some us are, you want to poke and prod. I do not enjoy it.

I have not had a bad vintage. If I had one, I would not release it. I rely on my customers for my livelihood, and it goes beyond the current vintage. They trust me because they are buying my wines before they have ever tasted them. Integrity is everything to me.

Your envy and general arrogance in regards to the wine growing and wine making community is very unattractive. I truly do not understand your agenda. You are free to post and speak, but it doesn't mean it is worthy of respect.
Merrill
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#43 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 10th, 2018, 8:21 pm

Alan Eden wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 7:54 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:54 am
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 3:42 am
I’ll take a stab at this...I think what Merrill is suggesting is that many statements seem to be based on speculation with little experience. (Merrill, please correct me if I’m wrong) It’s making a statement without giving data to validate the opinion. Merrill offers some data in her statement by saying her wine tastes great and was harvested before the fires. If there’s someone that has tasted 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley Cabs and is finding smoke problems that would be more data...but right now all I’m seeing is speculation. Which, I think she’s objecting to the negative speculation if there is/has been no tasting data.

I think it’s reasonable for someone to get upset when others make a statement that would impact their job or financial stability without offering any real Data...

Maybe we should create a topic to post 2017 Napa, Sonoma, & Anderson Valley cabs in to start getting some data?
You pretty much have it. And sometimes people think I am "upset" when I object to something. Feedback given to me over many years indicate my style of expression is extremely direct. I do not like misinformation and will object - just as anyone can - when I think someone knows little about what they are talking about.

You can read more about my take on 2017 in my other post asking which 2017s I have tasted.
Part of the issue is that no winemaker ever says oh that was a crappy year, Merrill I dont recall you ever saying that any year of your wine was substandard ? you often say your 11's are excellent while most peoples are not so good. Wine is the result of a farm crop and there are good crops and bad crops, now a bad crop nowadays will make reasonable wine with some TLC but the great crop years will make better wine. I wish that winemakers would be a bit more honest instead of never admitting that yeah my baby was ugly that year.
Doesn't this outline why so many people object to Caymus, Meomi, Kendall Jackson, and other wines that taste the same year in and year out? Can't different be different instead of bad vs. good it could be a different style? PGC Etzel Block wines are different year in and year out. There are years I've liked less than others...but I still like them when they're different. I hope that if we stop trying to polarize everything there could be more agreement in our culture as a whole. Even if we're agreeing that it's going to be different. It still means you have to go back to either one or two successful strategies...
(A) Stick to the tried & true producers you like
or...
(B) taste everything you buy.
Cellartracker:Kirk Grant

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#44 Post by Alan Eden » November 10th, 2018, 8:57 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:21 pm
Alan Eden wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 7:54 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 9:54 am
You pretty much have it. And sometimes people think I am "upset" when I object to something. Feedback given to me over many years indicate my style of expression is extremely direct. I do not like misinformation and will object - just as anyone can - when I think someone knows little about what they are talking about.

You can read more about my take on 2017 in my other post asking which 2017s I have tasted.
Part of the issue is that no winemaker ever says oh that was a crappy year, Merrill I dont recall you ever saying that any year of your wine was substandard ? you often say your 11's are excellent while most peoples are not so good. Wine is the result of a farm crop and there are good crops and bad crops, now a bad crop nowadays will make reasonable wine with some TLC but the great crop years will make better wine. I wish that winemakers would be a bit more honest instead of never admitting that yeah my baby was ugly that year.
Doesn't this outline why so many people object to Caymus, Meomi, Kendall Jackson, and other wines that taste the same year in and year out? Can't different be different instead of bad vs. good it could be a different style? PGC Etzel Block wines are different year in and year out. There are years I've liked less than others...but I still like them when they're different. I hope that if we stop trying to polarize everything there could be more agreement in our culture as a whole. Even if we're agreeing that it's going to be different. It still means you have to go back to either one or two successful strategies...
(A) Stick to the tried & true producers you like
or...
(B) taste everything you buy.
Kirk

Agree totally. For example to date i am not impressed with 2013 everyone else says its a fantastic vintage i find the fines too severe and wonder if the fruit will ever catch up the structure of the wine. All my friends think im nuts so i must be !!
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#45 Post by Alan Eden » November 10th, 2018, 9:06 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:19 pm
You are a troll, Alan. It doesn't matter how candid some us are, you want to poke and prod. I do not enjoy it.

I have not had a bad vintage. If I had one, I would not release it. I rely on my customers for my livelihood, and it goes beyond the current vintage. They trust me because they are buying my wines before they have ever tasted them. Integrity is everything to me.

Your envy and general arrogance in regards to the wine growing and wine making community is very unattractive. I truly do not understand your agenda. You are free to post and speak, but it doesn't mean it is worthy of respect.
Merrill

The funny thing here is that you came after me on this thread, i just made a very general comment aimed at nobody and not meant to inflame, i never mentioned any winery being good or bad in 17 just a comment that a lot of people share about possible issues.

You've made it very clear that your wine is fantastic every year regardless of any circumstances, good for you. i personally think wines have great years, good years and off years its the nature of wine and i dont have a problem with it. If my gut feeling is that 17 might be an off year im going to cut back a little to guard against it, i did not do this in 11 and got stuck with a lot of bad wine.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#46 Post by blarmston » November 11th, 2018, 7:12 am

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
November 10th, 2018, 8:19 pm
You are a troll, Alan. It doesn't matter how candid some us are, you want to poke and prod. I do not enjoy it.

I have not had a bad vintage. If I had one, I would not release it. I rely on my customers for my livelihood, and it goes beyond the current vintage. They trust me because they are buying my wines before they have ever tasted them. Integrity is everything to me.

Your envy and general arrogance in regards to the wine growing and wine making community is very unattractive. I truly do not understand your agenda. You are free to post and speak, but it doesn't mean it is worthy of respect.
So you are batting a 1000 for the last 17 years? That’s impressive. Sounds like you are the only winemaker in Napa/The World who has never a bad vintage...
-Brian Armston

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#47 Post by Rich Brown » November 11th, 2018, 10:00 am

Alan and Merrill bashing each other!?!? This could very quickly escalate to my most favorite thread ever.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#48 Post by robert creth » November 11th, 2018, 10:25 am

Rich Brown wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:00 am
Alan and Merrill bashing each other!?!? This could very quickly escalate to my most favorite thread ever.
I think the bashing is more one-sided.

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Re: Never ending wine releases

#49 Post by Alan Eden » November 11th, 2018, 10:36 am

Im not bashing anyone

Just reacting to a bully
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Re: Never ending wine releases

#50 Post by Merrill Lindquist » November 11th, 2018, 10:50 am

Rich Brown wrote:
November 11th, 2018, 10:00 am
Alan and Merrill bashing each other!?!? This could very quickly escalate to my most favorite thread ever.
Sorry to disappoint you, Rich. Continuing with this is not worth my time and emotion. I am busy managing my business, my farm, and my family.

And the Patriots are on now, and the Celtics have a pretty active schedule this week. Much more satisfying.
Merrill
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