Barolo / Barbaresco

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kris_lelis
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Barolo / Barbaresco

#1 Post by kris_lelis » October 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm

Hey people!
I’m new to this forum ,but have been working in the wine world for a few years already. I have spent last four years in Piedmont Italy the birthplace of the world famous Barolo/Barbaresco wines ,and I just wanted to know your thoughts and opinions about the region the nebbiolo grape and the wines them selfs.

Which is you favorite Barolo/Barbaresco?
And which one you wish to try?

Thenk you folks

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#2 Post by John Morris » October 31st, 2018, 5:30 pm

I'd suggest searching for "Barolo" and "Barbaresco" to see the many threads.
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#3 Post by Nathan Smyth » October 31st, 2018, 6:24 pm

Wait a second here.

You've tasted the 2010 GC Monfortino Riserva and you want our opinions on Nebbiolo?

There can't be much more than a handful of guys on this board who have even seen a bottle of that wine, much less opened a bottle and tasted it.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#4 Post by Markus S » November 1st, 2018, 4:51 am

kris_lelis wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm
Hey people!
I’m new to this forum ,but have been working in the wine world for a few years already. I have spent last four years in Piedmont Italy the birthplace of the world famous Barolo/Barbaresco wines ,and I just wanted to know your thoughts and opinions about the region the nebbiolo grape and the wines them selfs.

Which is you favorite Barolo/Barbaresco?
And which one you wish to try?

Thenk you folks
If you've spent the last 4 years on the ground in Italy I'd like to hear your thoughts about them, because I'm sure you've racked up more experience being there than someone drinking from a winestore in the States could ever tell you. What were you doing there for 4 years?
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#5 Post by Neal.Mollen » November 1st, 2018, 5:08 am

Kris, your question is too open-ended to be answered in a useful way. There are literally hundreds of barolo/barb threads on all manner of topics. In particular, there is a very long thread in which the cognoscenti discuss at length the various producers and where they fall on the modern/traditionalist continuum. It would be an excellent place to start.
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#6 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » November 1st, 2018, 6:01 am

There is a really good thread on the 2013 vintage, too

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#7 Post by GregT » November 1st, 2018, 6:51 am

the region the nebbiolo grape and the wines them selfs
He didn't ask about the vintages!!! [head-bang.gif]

Or the scores! [head-bang.gif]

What else really matters in the end? [scratch.gif]
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#8 Post by Ian Sutton » November 1st, 2018, 11:09 am

Hi Kris
I'm not into the trophy wines, so no great aspirations other than to continue to taste as widely as I can, and follow what I enjoy. Special enjoyment comes from a new discovery, and doubled if it's a winery off the radar of the usual critics.

I love the grape, and not just from the Langhe but in other forms elsewhere. I like ageing it, though I fear that in the rush to make it more accessible, it may compromise the long term potential, but let's see what father time says on that.

I'm not sure I can pick out a favourite, but using the Pat Burton scale... I'm averse to the (truly) modernist wines, but have enjoyed across the spectrum from traditional, through to lean modern. I get edgy when the alc% hits 15% or above. That's not to say I've not enjoyed wines at 14.5% and 15%, but in the modern era wines, I generally see problems of too much rather than too little ripeness/alc%.

I love walking the vineyards (yay! for shared ownership) and the typical hospitality when visiting wineries. The food is very good indeed. I fear that Barolo & Barbaresco villages themselves are gradually coming into the sights of 'see Italy in a week / 2 weeks' coach tours, but they aren't yet overrun. I could see that happening to Barolo in the next decade or two though.

Plenty else to enjoy outside of the Langhe, and I really like Cuneo, Torino and even plain old Ghemme & Bubbio.

Where were you staying and any other places you visited that you'd recommend? Places like Tortona and Biella are on our radar for future trips, so I've got special interest if you've been.

Regards
Ian
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#9 Post by Mark Y » November 1st, 2018, 11:29 am

I think the OP is trying to start a chat about people's preferences, what they've liked etc.

I don't think he's asking people to tell him what Nebbiolo is.. and which ones HE should try..
Y.e.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#10 Post by Markus S » November 1st, 2018, 11:49 am

Mark Y wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:29 am
I think the OP is trying to start a chat about people's preferences, what they've liked etc.

I don't think he's asking people to tell him what Nebbiolo is.. and which ones HE should try..
He says he has spent 4 YEARS living in Piedmont and doesn't know which wines to drink? [wow.gif]
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#11 Post by Claus Jeppesen » November 1st, 2018, 11:59 am

He might be regretting that he drank 2010 Monfortino 30 years too early and wants professional help newhere
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#12 Post by Mark Y » November 1st, 2018, 12:04 pm

Markus S wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:49 am
Mark Y wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:29 am
I think the OP is trying to start a chat about people's preferences, what they've liked etc.

I don't think he's asking people to tell him what Nebbiolo is.. and which ones HE should try..
He says he has spent 4 YEARS living in Piedmont and doesn't know which wines to drink? [wow.gif]
nono i think his question is more like
"hey gang, i just spent 4 years in this region.. i wanna hear what others experiences of this is.. let's chat about it".

not 'pls tell me more about the region, i want to learn"...
Y.e.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#13 Post by ky1em!ttskus » November 1st, 2018, 12:38 pm

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:59 am
He might be regretting that he drank 2010 Monfortino 30 years too early and wants professional help newhere
[winner.gif]

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#14 Post by Subu Ramachandran » November 1st, 2018, 1:10 pm

Markus S wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:49 am
Mark Y wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:29 am
I think the OP is trying to start a chat about people's preferences, what they've liked etc.

I don't think he's asking people to tell him what Nebbiolo is.. and which ones HE should try..
He says he has spent 4 YEARS living in Piedmont and doesn't know which wines to drink? [wow.gif]
This is funny!

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#15 Post by Matthew King » November 1st, 2018, 1:48 pm

Ahhh ... WB is such a welcoming place to newcomers.

Like walking into the corner pub and trying to strike up a conversation with all the grumpy regulars. [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#16 Post by Jeff O k e a n » November 1st, 2018, 2:05 pm

I'm new here also, so I'm not going to scold you, haha. Angelo Gaja's 1971 Sori Tilden was one of the best wines I have ever had the pleasure to drink; although that was a long long time ago. Right up there was a 1985 Bruno Giacosa Rionda Serralunga that I had in the mid-90's. Since then, I've enjoyed many nice bottles from the Langhe, but nothing that has knocked my socks off. Maybe that's because I don't drink very much these days to cover a lot of ground, or maybe I can't afford the best of them anymore. when they'rs in top form, the best wines from the Langhe have a certain dramatic cornucopia of bitter, sweet, medicinal, floral, deep dark fruit flavors and aromas, that make them unique experiences; but as in many other wine producing areas, the quality of the wines can be really variable.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#17 Post by Jim Stewart » November 1st, 2018, 2:12 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:09 am
Hi Kris
I'm not into the trophy wines, so no great aspirations other than to continue to taste as widely as I can, and follow what I enjoy. Special enjoyment comes from a new discovery, and doubled if it's a winery off the radar of the usual critics.

I love the grape, and not just from the Langhe but in other forms elsewhere. I like ageing it, though I fear that in the rush to make it more accessible, it may compromise the long term potential, but let's see what father time says on that.

I'm not sure I can pick out a favourite, but using the Pat Burton scale... I'm averse to the (truly) modernist wines, but have enjoyed across the spectrum from traditional, through to lean modern. I get edgy when the alc% hits 15% or above. That's not to say I've not enjoyed wines at 14.5% and 15%, but in the modern era wines, I generally see problems of too much rather than too little ripeness/alc%.

I love walking the vineyards (yay! for shared ownership) and the typical hospitality when visiting wineries. The food is very good indeed. I fear that Barolo & Barbaresco villages themselves are gradually coming into the sights of 'see Italy in a week / 2 weeks' coach tours, but they aren't yet overrun. I could see that happening to Barolo in the next decade or two though.

Plenty else to enjoy outside of the Langhe, and I really like Cuneo, Torino and even plain old Ghemme & Bubbio.

Where were you staying and any other places you visited that you'd recommend? Places like Tortona and Biella are on our radar for future trips, so I've got special interest if you've been.

Regards
Ian
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#18 Post by Jim Stewart » November 1st, 2018, 2:46 pm

kris_lelis wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm
Hey people!
I’m new to this forum ,but have been working in the wine world for a few years already. I have spent last four years in Piedmont Italy the birthplace of the world famous Barolo/Barbaresco wines ,and I just wanted to know your thoughts and opinions about the region the nebbiolo grape and the wines them selfs.

Which is you favorite Barolo/Barbaresco?
And which one you wish to try?

Thenk you folks
Hello Kris, Welcome to the forum. My wife and I visited Piemonte just once about 10 years ago. We have some nice memories and need to get back there soon. You are lucky to have lived there, with the beautiful countryside, the wine and the food. We visited winemakers and tasted wines in both La Morra and Barbaresco. The favorite Barolo that I have tasted is the 2004 Cascina Ballarin Bricco Rocca. I have a few bottles of the 2010 Reverdito that I sampled and enjoyed. Recently I bought a couple of bottles of Paitin Barbaresco and also their Barbera d’Alba , which I have not tasted yet. My wife and I also enjoyed visiting other parts of Piemonte.
Saluti,
-Jim

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#19 Post by Ian Sutton » November 1st, 2018, 3:20 pm

Hi Jim
Too kind, but thank you.

Have you tried Cascina Ballarin's langhe nebbiolo? One of the first 'basic' langhe nebbiolos that I tasted and enjoyed, as it very much carried recognisable traits seen in their Barolo wines, yet at a fraction of the price, including a hint of truffle that seemed to be a common element of their wines, especially in the 1st year we visited. It's one I still look out for, though despite the price differential, I'd have no issues buying their Barolo wines.

Amusingly on both visits they forgot about the booking, on the first time we re-arranged for another day (we were staying about 100-150 metres away from them, so easy to re-arrange). On the 2nd visit, the men had gone off to some event, leaving one of the wives temporarily flustered, but gracious enough to run the tasting herself. On both occasions it turned out perfectly fine, but it really was a sense of deja vu all over again ( [wink.gif] ).

Regards
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#20 Post by Ian Sutton » November 1st, 2018, 3:21 pm

p.s. and a warm welcome to Kris and Jeff. Hope you enjoy it here.
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#21 Post by Mattstolz » November 2nd, 2018, 3:27 am

I'll play along with the face value of the OP.

Its a wide question, but my favorite producers of Barbaresco that I've had the chance to taste are by far Produttori. For Barolo, Bruno Giacosa, although I have only had the chance to taste one of BG's wines.

The number one and two producers of Nebbiolo that I would like to try at some point are Giuseppe Rinaldi and Giuseppe Mascarello. Must be a thing with Giuseppes. both are bucket listers for me.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#22 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 2nd, 2018, 7:05 am

Mattstolz wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 3:27 am
The number one and two producers of Nebbiolo that I would like to try at some point are Giuseppe Rinaldi and Giuseppe Mascarello. Must be a thing with Giuseppes. both are bucket listers for me.
I think both are worth seeking out. They both offer something different to me. My recollection of Rinaldi was a lightness and rustic note that really was quite interesting. Mascarello wines are all about finesse and elegance to me. I was drawn more to Mascarello in the same way that i'm drawn more to Burgundy than the Rhone or Bordeaux. I love them all...but I have my preferences; as do we all. I would recommend snagging some as soon as possible as the bottle price continues to creep up. I remember paying $80 for the Mascarello 08's. I couldn't get the 13's for under $125 and I expect the 16's will cross the $150 mark. If you search around there are still values to be found.

Oh, and to the OP's question.
Barbaresco - Produttori followed by Roagna (this would be first if not for the price) & Giuseppe Cortese
Barolo: Giuseppe Mascarello, Bartolo Maccarello (price is now out of control), Cavallotto (this producer is new for me since 2016, but fast growing as a favorite in the cellar).
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#23 Post by kris_lelis » November 2nd, 2018, 4:43 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 3:21 pm
p.s. and a warm welcome to Kris and Jeff. Hope you enjoy it here.

Thanks for the support Ian newhere

Yeah.... My post was more about the GENERAL opinions about Barolo/Barbaresco ,and not so much about my willingness to learn from them.. sorry for my English hahah

But anyhow great stuff guys!

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#24 Post by kris_lelis » November 2nd, 2018, 4:47 pm

Just to make it clear I have drank my fare share of Barolo Barbaresco Nebbiolo and Barbera not to mention Dolcetto Pelaverga Freisa and so on...

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#25 Post by kris_lelis » November 2nd, 2018, 4:59 pm

All in all... The feedback that I got from the post was awesome!!! Everyone seems to be enjoying the more traditional style Barolo - Cavallotto, Giacosa , Rinaldi , B.Mascarello , G.Mascarello (Monprivato 2003 , 2004 ,2006 , 2012 ,2013 some of the best wines I have ever tasted not to mention Ca d’Morissio)) Roagna , Pira and so on ...

There is so much to discover! Wineries like
Guido Porro (Serralunga d’Alba) Cascina Fontana (Monforte d’Alba ) Giovanni Rosso (Serralunga d’Alba) Livia Fontana (Castiglione Falletto) Burzi (La Morra) Ceaare Bussolo (La Morra) are just some of the producers that are worth your will researching.. [berserker.gif]

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#26 Post by kris_lelis » November 2nd, 2018, 5:12 pm

John Morris wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 5:30 pm
I'd suggest searching for "Barolo" and "Barbaresco" to see the many threads.
Thank for the suggestion! [thankyou.gif]
P.s. I like you profile pic. What do you think about the wines of Maria Teresa insted of the ones made by Bartolo?

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#27 Post by kris_lelis » November 2nd, 2018, 5:17 pm

kris_lelis wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 5:12 pm
John Morris wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 5:30 pm
I'd suggest searching for "Barolo" and "Barbaresco" to see the many threads.
Thank for the suggestion! [thankyou.gif]
P.s. I like you profile pic. What do you think about the wines of Maria Teresa insted of the ones made by Bartolo?

O o o o and what about Bruna (Giacosa) entering and taking complete control of her fathers cellar do you maybe see a decrease/increas in the quality ? Woild like to hear your thoughts

Grazie mille

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#28 Post by Mattstolz » November 2nd, 2018, 6:19 pm

Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 7:05 am

I think both are worth seeking out. They both offer something different to me. My recollection of Rinaldi was a lightness and rustic note that really was quite interesting. Mascarello wines are all about finesse and elegance to me. I was drawn more to Mascarello in the same way that i'm drawn more to Burgundy than the Rhone or Bordeaux. I love them all...but I have my preferences; as do we all. I would recommend snagging some as soon as possible as the bottle price continues to creep up. I remember paying $80 for the Mascarello 08's. I couldn't get the 13's for under $125 and I expect the 16's will cross the $150 mark. If you search around there are still values to be found.

Oh, and to the OP's question.
Barbaresco - Produttori followed by Roagna (this would be first if not for the price) & Giuseppe Cortese
Barolo: Giuseppe Mascarello, Bartolo Maccarello (price is now out of control), Cavallotto (this producer is new for me since 2016, but fast growing as a favorite in the cellar).
i definitely appreciate the backup on my yearning. your description sounds exactly like two wines that I should continue to save up for.

have you had many of their "smaller" wines? Do you think they are a good introduction to the house style as a Langhe Nebbiolo?

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#29 Post by John Morris » November 2nd, 2018, 7:35 pm

kris_lelis wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 5:12 pm
John Morris wrote:
October 31st, 2018, 5:30 pm
I'd suggest searching for "Barolo" and "Barbaresco" to see the many threads.
Thank for the suggestion! [thankyou.gif]
P.s. I like you profile pic. What do you think about the wines of Maria Teresa insted of the ones made by Bartolo?
I'm not playing the Bartolo and Giacosa game these days, sadly. Priced out some time ago.
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#30 Post by Jayson Cohen » November 2nd, 2018, 8:19 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 6:19 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 7:05 am

I think both are worth seeking out. They both offer something different to me. My recollection of Rinaldi was a lightness and rustic note that really was quite interesting. Mascarello wines are all about finesse and elegance to me. I was drawn more to Mascarello in the same way that i'm drawn more to Burgundy than the Rhone or Bordeaux. I love them all...but I have my preferences; as do we all. I would recommend snagging some as soon as possible as the bottle price continues to creep up. I remember paying $80 for the Mascarello 08's. I couldn't get the 13's for under $125 and I expect the 16's will cross the $150 mark. If you search around there are still values to be found.

Oh, and to the OP's question.
Barbaresco - Produttori followed by Roagna (this would be first if not for the price) & Giuseppe Cortese
Barolo: Giuseppe Mascarello, Bartolo Maccarello (price is now out of control), Cavallotto (this producer is new for me since 2016, but fast growing as a favorite in the cellar).
i definitely appreciate the backup on my yearning. your description sounds exactly like two wines that I should continue to save up for.

have you had many of their "smaller" wines? Do you think they are a good introduction to the house style as a Langhe Nebbiolo?
For my palate Mauro Mascarello’s wines (G. Mascarello) are (were?) the absolute sweet spot. Not just Monprivato. Santo Stefano di Perno. Villero. The Langhes. It started with trying the ‘85s around 2000. (I always give Greg Dal Piaz the nod for introducing them to me.) Matt, you can get a bottle of Santo Stefano di Perno or Villero. I’m guessing you will love the elegance, transparency, red fruitedness, and perfume.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#31 Post by Kirk.Grant » November 3rd, 2018, 8:21 am

Mattstolz wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 6:19 pm
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 7:05 am

I think both are worth seeking out. They both offer something different to me. My recollection of Rinaldi was a lightness and rustic note that really was quite interesting. Mascarello wines are all about finesse and elegance to me. I was drawn more to Mascarello in the same way that i'm drawn more to Burgundy than the Rhone or Bordeaux. I love them all...but I have my preferences; as do we all. I would recommend snagging some as soon as possible as the bottle price continues to creep up. I remember paying $80 for the Mascarello 08's. I couldn't get the 13's for under $125 and I expect the 16's will cross the $150 mark. If you search around there are still values to be found.

Oh, and to the OP's question.
Barbaresco - Produttori followed by Roagna (this would be first if not for the price) & Giuseppe Cortese
Barolo: Giuseppe Mascarello, Bartolo Maccarello (price is now out of control), Cavallotto (this producer is new for me since 2016, but fast growing as a favorite in the cellar).
i definitely appreciate the backup on my yearning. your description sounds exactly like two wines that I should continue to save up for.

have you had many of their "smaller" wines? Do you think they are a good introduction to the house style as a Langhe Nebbiolo?

I agree with Jayson, I've enjoyed everything I had from this producer. Try them all, the Monprivato is a wine I think in another 10+ years you'll be glad you splurged on though.
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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#32 Post by Mattstolz » November 3rd, 2018, 5:13 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 8:19 pm

For my palate Mauro Mascarello’s wines (G. Mascarello) are (were?) the absolute sweet spot. Not just Monprivato. Santo Stefano di Perno. Villero. The Langhes. It started with trying the ‘85s around 2000. (I always give Greg Dal Piaz the nod for introducing them to me.) Matt, you can get a bottle of Santo Stefano di Perno or Villero. I’m guessing you will love the elegance, transparency, red fruitedness, and perfume.
Kirk.Grant wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 8:21 am



I agree with Jayson, I've enjoyed everything I had from this producer. Try them all, the Monprivato is a wine I think in another 10+ years you'll be glad you splurged on though.
I appreciate it! I feel like I always hear "buy the very best wine you can afford right now," and I am thinking a bottle or two from each of these two producer's would probably be on that list of worthwhile wines.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#33 Post by Bob Hughes » November 4th, 2018, 6:45 am

To my way of thinking, Barolo & Barbaresco are perfect wines to buy by the case because they change so dramatically over the years.

One reason why I so often recommend Produttori for folks just starting out - a case will fit into almost any wine budget, and even the Normale is a wine that will provide very interesting drinking over a 15-20 year period.

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Re: Barolo / Barbaresco

#34 Post by Otto Forsberg » November 6th, 2018, 10:47 am

Bob Hughes wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 6:45 am
To my way of thinking, Barolo & Barbaresco are perfect wines to buy by the case because they change so dramatically over the years.

One reason why I so often recommend Produttori for folks just starting out - a case will fit into almost any wine budget, and even the Normale is a wine that will provide very interesting drinking over a 15-20 year period.
Having tasted a lot of Produttori normales back to some of the earliest vintages hailing from the 60's, I can guarantee your suggested drinking window can easily be doubled!

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