When it comes to Southern Rhône many here seem to like Charvin and after trying the basic Côtes du Rhône earlier this year I thought I had found something that suits my palate as well. However the 2012 Châteauneuf-du-Pape last weekend seemed to have absolutely nothing in common with the CdR and instead possessed a lot of such characteristics that generally make me dislike C9dP. Was the bottle opened way too early? Could it have been less than sound? I had bought it a few months ago from an air-conditioned shop in Ribeauville so I think any heat damage is unlikely but then again I did find the wine roasted and alcoholic - quite undrinkable actually.
2012 Domaine Charvin Châteauneuf-du-Pape- France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape (27.10.2018)
This porty flavor profile is not for me. Very harsh early on, did not move during a couple of hours in a decanter but did manage to mellow down some overnight. I like the CdR but this I just cannot find enjoyable no matter how hard I try.
2015 Domaine Charvin Côtes du Rhône (Le Poutet)- France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Côtes du Rhône (12.3.2018)
Brightly red-fruited on the nose with notes of strawberry, cherry, garrigue and stone. Medium-bodied and awfully fresh on the palate with a strong sense of authenticity and transparency. Nicely structured with a gentle tannic grip. Despite the warm vintage there is a great brightness and vitality to this one. A superb bistro wine in the best sense.
I like Charvin and cellar it from time to time. There are times after the first release (usually about 2 years after release) when it can go through a grouchy grumpy stage and show like how you describe. I would wait 2-3 years more until it comes through this, but when it does pass through it will be missing the initial glorious fruit and show more mature notes.
I don’t think they show that well until 10 to 15 years from vintage, depending on the vintage. If you have some or can find it, the 08 is drinking beautifully right now.
Thanks everyone for your input. I will for sure look to try an aged bottle but that said I do find Marcus’s comment very interesting and wonder if I might eventually be in the same boat.
The occasional Rayas comparisons are pretty overblown. That said, I like Charvin a lot in cooler vintages.
When I was in the South Rhone in 11, tasting lots of 09s, many of the good producers we visited made sure to show their 08s before any 07s got shown, even if they paid lip service to the whole “vintage of the century” hype about 07. I ended up buying a few to sell, and I was mostly right in thinking these were 98 Napa Cabs vs, 97 Napa Cabs. The latter crumbled early, while 98 Napa aged very well. The top producers often declassified the fruit for the special cuvees back into the basic CdP, and it showed.
I drank a lot of the '14 CdR. Just lovely, bright, crisp fruit – from a vintage that was dumped on. This had some real concentration but great acidity so it was fresh and refreshing. I put a few bottles away because it seemed to have the balance to age a bit. I tried one bottle of the '15, which was a good but bigger wine. I preferred the '14.
Here’s a photo of the vines adjacent to the winery, taken on a visit in January 2017. Note that there are no stones on the surface in this area, at the northern edge of the CdP appellation.
Sorry, but (imho) the CdR is definitely “lower” than the CNDP, simpler, easier, less complex, less structured, ready earlier, but not as ageworthy (ba far) … as much as I like Charvin and also the CdR … that´s a fact for me …
the CdR might be a “better drink” at age 4-7, but it´s still not the same level …
I haven’t had the 12 Charvin CdP since it came out and I bought my yearly allotment. I usually try to keep my hands off them until they are between 8 and 10, as that it when I find them at their best, though I make exceptions for vintages like 08, 11 (both drinking very well now), 13, and 14. It is well within the realm of possibility that, as some of the posters above have said, it is in a closed period. Even Charvin CdRs have these with some regularity. But your tasting note doesn’t sound like it. When they are closed,Charvin’s wines, both CdRs and CdPs, taste mutedly and harshly tannic (as might be expected). They do not taste porty, however. Indeed, that is an odd note for Charvin, who, while he certainly makes powerful wines in solar years, pointedly does not seek surmaturité. If by porty, you mean roasted and/or stewed, then maybe the wine you had was heat damaged. if you mean alcoholic without much fruit, then the wine is probably closed. It’s also possible that my balanced, minerally and intellectually interesting CdP is your porty blockbuster. These things happen and you may do well to avoid Charvin (and all CdP) in years that are critical darlings.
If Charvin’s CdR didn’t taste so much like a northern vineyard CdP, it would be easier to avoid comparing them. And one should avoid it. They are different wines with different strengths. The CdRs can age surprisingly well and I try to avoid not drinking mine up until they are around 10-12. But they don’t age like the CdPs (Charvin’s 90s are still drinking beautifully). Tasting a CdR blind, I have confused it with a CdP. Given one of each, I can generally identify which is which, thougn.
On John’s recommendation, I just grabbed some of the Charvin 2016 Cotes-du-Rhone Le Poutet . Last week I grabbed some of the 2015 Charvin Cheatuenuef du Pape.
I don’t know Charvin that well, but what I know, I generally like. This is a stern producer, I agree that the wines need time. '12 is a stern vintage, so without having had it, I would pencil it in for 2025 - 2030 and it will probably age past that. One of the things I love about ‘old school’ Chateauneuf is that in general it does not shut down (I’m thinking about Vieux Telegraphe, Donjon, Bonneau). I don’t know where to put Charvin, but the serious structure along with the ripeness is something I find unusual.
