What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#1 Post by MBerto » October 26th, 2018, 12:36 pm

Name and date removed to protect the, well if not quite innocent, at least good faith taster.

The wine in question is a 2017 red wine, that very few would expect to be all that good right now. I was entering it into CT and was surprised to see the CT "consensus" (from this one note) at an 87. I say leaving a note that you opened it is fine, perhaps with a "preliminary" score in the note, but that actually scoring it knowing it's not ready and very likely to improve is at best poor form. What say you?
Attachments
note.JPG
note.JPG (10.76 KiB) Viewed 2098 times
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

Michael Martin
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6340
Joined: August 28th, 2010, 3:35 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#2 Post by Michael Martin » October 26th, 2018, 1:05 pm

I know the wine. I saw the review. This one review will get buried in a hurry and the wine will end up at 91 - 92 ish like it always does. I wouldn't be too concerned.

Justin S
Posts: 278
Joined: November 30th, 2017, 9:38 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#3 Post by Justin S » October 26th, 2018, 1:27 pm

Depends on whether you care about "scores," whether from a critic or a CT user. While I would prefer that users do as you say, and only enter a score in the comments to prevent it from being included in the average, the user did say he expects the wine to be 90+ in a few years.

Bottom line is that savvy wine consumers should not discount a wine due to a few poor scores. And for long-term agers that I am considering buying, it tends to be the more recent notes that get the most weight from me. Or notes from users with a similar palate as mine.
$ ! n g h

User avatar
A. So
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 2866
Joined: July 19th, 2011, 7:58 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#4 Post by A. So » October 26th, 2018, 1:41 pm

MBerto wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 12:36 pm
Name and date removed to protect the, well if not quite innocent, at least good faith taster.

The wine in question is a 2017 red wine, that very few would expect to be all that good right now. I was entering it into CT and was surprised to see the CT "consensus" (from this one note) at an 87. I say leaving a note that you opened it is fine, perhaps with a "preliminary" score in the note, but that actually scoring it knowing it's not ready and very likely to improve is at best poor form. What say you?
Why is it poor form?
エaイdドrリiアaンn (93 pts.)

User avatar
Mattstolz
Posts: 1327
Joined: June 26th, 2017, 7:46 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#5 Post by Mattstolz » October 26th, 2018, 1:49 pm

when other notes get added you can always deconstruct the score and recalculate it without this note if you want. it would be kind of nice if CT had a feature where you could see what the score would be like without obvious outliers like "ew this wine is really tannic! 85" on a new release barolo and such.

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 33785
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 26th, 2018, 1:49 pm

A. So wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 1:41 pm
MBerto wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 12:36 pm
Name and date removed to protect the, well if not quite innocent, at least good faith taster.

The wine in question is a 2017 red wine, that very few would expect to be all that good right now. I was entering it into CT and was surprised to see the CT "consensus" (from this one note) at an 87. I say leaving a note that you opened it is fine, perhaps with a "preliminary" score in the note, but that actually scoring it knowing it's not ready and very likely to improve is at best poor form. What say you?
Why is it poor form?
Yeah, I am missing something too
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Kirk.Grant
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3182
Joined: May 27th, 2012, 1:29 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#7 Post by Kirk.Grant » October 26th, 2018, 1:55 pm

Here's a note I wrote for a bottle I opened for others but did not taste. It was basically just to record it was gone and the report was mostly a report of others comments. Hence why I chose to keep it simple. Maybe the note taker was really in a hurry...?

10/23/2018: Opened for family & enjoyed over multiple days. In a very enjoyable place now. Ready to go with 30 min in the decanter.
Cellartracker:Kirk Grant

User avatar
Mike Francisco
Posts: 219
Joined: March 30th, 2017, 1:59 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#8 Post by Mike Francisco » October 26th, 2018, 2:06 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 1:49 pm
A. So wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 1:41 pm
MBerto wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 12:36 pm
Name and date removed to protect the, well if not quite innocent, at least good faith taster.

The wine in question is a 2017 red wine, that very few would expect to be all that good right now. I was entering it into CT and was surprised to see the CT "consensus" (from this one note) at an 87. I say leaving a note that you opened it is fine, perhaps with a "preliminary" score in the note, but that actually scoring it knowing it's not ready and very likely to improve is at best poor form. What say you?
Why is it poor form?
Yeah, I am missing something too
+1
Will this tasters score affect how your bottles taste?

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 6058
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#9 Post by Markus S » October 26th, 2018, 2:33 pm

Not sure what wine it is, but...does the point score really matter? It is someone's opinion based on where it is now. Who cares? Read their notes and see if you agree with it. Otherwise, dismiss the reviewer.
$ _ € ® e . k @

Michael S. Monie
Posts: 4023
Joined: May 14th, 2013, 7:36 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#10 Post by Michael S. Monie » October 26th, 2018, 2:53 pm

The only mistake was not rating it 93 points.
It's the root of all evil and you know the rest, but it's way ahead of what's second best.

User avatar
c fu
Moderator
<dfn>Moderator</dfn>
Posts: 30829
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 1:26 pm
Location: Pasadena

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#11 Post by c fu » October 26th, 2018, 3:27 pm

He does say he expects it to go up in score in a few years. So why fret?
Ch@rlie F|_|
"Roulot is Roulot"©

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/clayfu.wine

Gordon Fitz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 8934
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 2:18 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#12 Post by Gordon Fitz » October 26th, 2018, 6:55 pm

CT is full of purposeful infantcide, many of which insist upon doing only PaP! I typically ignore all the early TNs on such wines and only look at the recent notes.

One of the major problems with CT average scoring is it gives equal weight, in the averages, to a TN score of 5 years ago as it does to a current score. F a wine got a bunch of early “me too” infantcide rating it will greatly diminish the wine rankings for the duration.

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 33125
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#13 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 26th, 2018, 6:58 pm

Still trying to figure out why the scores matter.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
Joe S.
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 936
Joined: January 18th, 2013, 8:31 pm
Location: DFW Metroplex

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#14 Post by Joe S. » October 26th, 2018, 7:24 pm

A nice CT feature would be to plot a single wine's scores over time. That way people could rate it based on what it is now, and then we could see if it is improving, topping out, or declining over time. This would certainly help place wines in the "ready to drink" category. Of course, there are also so many wines with only a couple CT scores or with lots from prolific repetitive FanBoys here this would not work...
-- J. 'eS-eye-dee-dee-ay-eL-eL-
BornToRhone (CT)

User avatar
Jeff Cassetta
Posts: 980
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 3:49 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#15 Post by Jeff Cassetta » October 26th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Headline...a LOT of CT TN's are for personal use...If the writer get's use out of it down the road on a look back, I'm sure that he could give a flying f about how others might over analyze
his TN...

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3609
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#16 Post by Wes Barton » October 26th, 2018, 10:50 pm

Not a big deal, since there's plenty of stupidity to sort through. But, the writer does give the wine two scores. Sort of. Since the first is tied to opinion of it not being ready, that should only be stated in the notes. Since the second is a range with lukewarm confidence, that should also only be stated in the notes.

Jeff - The writer is choosing to share a score with the community. The TN itself isn't an issue.
ITB - Useless lackey

"I've acquired enough wine to seduce an elephant." - Jennifer Robin

Michael Heinrich
Posts: 45
Joined: March 14th, 2016, 11:02 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#17 Post by Michael Heinrich » October 27th, 2018, 3:16 am

I mean, if a winery releases wine that is too young to enjoy, why not point it out on CT?

P Intag
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 697
Joined: September 5th, 2010, 9:19 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#18 Post by P Intag » October 27th, 2018, 6:59 am

I actually appreciate the honest take and score as the wine is right now. Not poor form at all as far as I am concerned. Also, why hide the wine and the score? I would like to know so I can follow that taster!
Paul

User avatar
Bob Hoelting
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 126
Joined: January 25th, 2012, 4:18 pm
Location: Santa Ana

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#19 Post by Bob Hoelting » October 27th, 2018, 7:06 am

Michael Heinrich wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:16 am
I mean, if a winery releases wine that is too young to enjoy, why not point it out on CT?
If a user opens a wine that is too young to enjoy, why blame the winery? The winery (and by extension, us buyers) can not afford to let bottles sit at the winery for years.

User avatar
larry schaffer
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 7722
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 9:26 am
Location: Santa Ynez Valley, CA

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#20 Post by larry schaffer » October 27th, 2018, 7:22 am

This is such an interesting thread in many ways. First of all, many wineries do release wines well before their prime drinking window. Some consumers realize this and some don't at all. I don't blame wineries for doing this, but it might be good for them to note this, especially with those who are not regular drinkers.

Second, I agree with others that it should not matter what someone else says about a wine that you own. I know that cellartracker can be a good guide at times, but it is not meant to replace your own experiences or palate, is it?

Cheers
larry schaffer
tercero wines

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 33785
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#21 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 27th, 2018, 7:34 am

Jeff Cassetta wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 7:42 pm
Headline...a LOT of CT TN's are for personal use...If the writer get's use out of it down the road on a look back, I'm sure that he could give a flying f about how others might over analyze
his TN...
^^^^^
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Mike Francisco
Posts: 219
Joined: March 30th, 2017, 1:59 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#22 Post by Mike Francisco » October 27th, 2018, 11:08 am

I would rather read this person's honest assessment of a young wine, then fanboys gushing about wines from their favorite wineries that are either way to young to enjoy (that much anyway) or just not that good, but are still scored in the mid 90s.
Last edited by Mike Francisco on October 27th, 2018, 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John S
Posts: 749
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 11:45 am
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#23 Post by John S » October 27th, 2018, 11:29 am

It seems clear from this post people use CT for many different purposes. Personally I use it for myself. I write the occasional note and wondered whether to make public or not. I decided to let other see them in case my notes were helpful. I bet many do the same for the same reason. I certainly do not think about what others may think about the notes of how they may get used.

Some people use CT info as a replacement for how many of us (I include myself in the past) used to use professional critics. While I think that may be helpful it is mis-guided if the same expectations and professionalism are expected. Not to even mention thorny issues such as standards for evaluation and bench marking.

As with most things in life to each his own or let a 1000 flowers bloom. I think CT is designed so anyone can use as they see fit which is great.
John Sprow

User avatar
dsimmons
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 630
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 11:51 am
Location: Anchorage, AK and Rockport, TX

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#24 Post by dsimmons » October 27th, 2018, 11:32 am

News Flash! There is no consistency in how people review and score wines. To me the usefulness of CT rests in reading the notes, understanding the limitations of the scores, and getting to "know" the raters. If you do these things I believe that CT will prove to be very useful indeed.
D o n

User avatar
Jay Miller
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 13973
Joined: June 19th, 2009, 5:18 pm
Location: Jersey City

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#25 Post by Jay Miller » October 27th, 2018, 3:50 pm

Bob Hoelting wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:06 am
Michael Heinrich wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:16 am
I mean, if a winery releases wine that is too young to enjoy, why not point it out on CT?
If a user opens a wine that is too young to enjoy, why blame the winery? The winery (and by extension, us buyers) can not afford to let bottles sit at the winery for years.
How is posting an honest assessment of where a particular wine is at this point in time “blaming the winery?”
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

User avatar
David Glasser
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6521
Joined: August 16th, 2009, 6:03 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#26 Post by David Glasser » October 27th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Wes Barton wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 10:50 pm

Jeff - The writer is choosing to share a score with the community. The TN itself isn't an issue.
I don't think there's an option to record a score that is searchable by the user but not visible to the community. Is there?

Wes Barton
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3609
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:54 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#27 Post by Wes Barton » October 27th, 2018, 7:18 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:50 pm
Bob Hoelting wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:06 am
Michael Heinrich wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:16 am
I mean, if a winery releases wine that is too young to enjoy, why not point it out on CT?
If a user opens a wine that is too young to enjoy, why blame the winery? The winery (and by extension, us buyers) can not afford to let bottles sit at the winery for years.
How is posting an honest assessment of where a particular wine is at this point in time “blaming the winery?”
The note is an honest assessment. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The note essentially says "I think this is a 90+ pt. wine that isn't ready to drink, showing about 87 pts. right now." The tone of the note indicates the writer suspected the wine wouldn't be ready, but was checking in on it anyway. Plenty of wines aren't ready on release, many people taste them and write notes on them prior to their drinking windows open. The issue is: Should a score be entered into the system in this case? If so, should it be how the wine shows now, or an assessment of its ultimate quality? No one is compelled to add a score.

Professional wine critics make that choice all the time. Their scores project the ultimate quality.

A person just tasting a wine that isn't showing so well, describing it and explaining why, and giving a corresponding rating is fine. That wasn't the case here. The person knew why the wine wasn't showing well, and had a good idea how much better it would get and when. Then gave it a score that denotes a lower quality level anyways.
ITB - Useless lackey

"I've acquired enough wine to seduce an elephant." - Jennifer Robin

dougwilder
Posts: 1011
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 6:15 am
Location: Napa/Sonoma/San Francisco

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#28 Post by dougwilder » October 27th, 2018, 11:45 pm

God forbid someone have an unpopular opinion.How will "we" ever get over this? The horror...
itb

User avatar
Claus Jeppesen
Posts: 1721
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 2:42 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#29 Post by Claus Jeppesen » October 28th, 2018, 3:58 am

larry schaffer wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:22 am
This is such an interesting thread in many ways. First of all, many wineries do release wines well before their prime drinking window. Some consumers realize this and some don't at all. I don't blame wineries for doing this, but it might be good for them to note this, especially with those who are not regular drinkers.

Second, I agree with others that it should not matter what someone else says about a wine that you own. I know that cellartracker can be a good guide at times, but it is not meant to replace your own experiences or palate, is it?

Cheers
Can you mention any, besides LdH that does not? E.g 2012 Latour is way too young when released in 2022
Claus

Riesling and Slate

User avatar
Albert R
Posts: 640
Joined: June 18th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#30 Post by Albert R » October 28th, 2018, 6:00 am

I really don't care. Just looking at the CT number and not reading multiple notes is IMHO a mistake.
Cheers,

@. Re-go

P Intag
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 697
Joined: September 5th, 2010, 9:19 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#31 Post by P Intag » October 28th, 2018, 8:57 am

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 3:58 am
larry schaffer wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:22 am
This is such an interesting thread in many ways. First of all, many wineries do release wines well before their prime drinking window. Some consumers realize this and some don't at all. I don't blame wineries for doing this, but it might be good for them to note this, especially with those who are not regular drinkers.

Second, I agree with others that it should not matter what someone else says about a wine that you own. I know that cellartracker can be a good guide at times, but it is not meant to replace your own experiences or palate, is it?

Cheers
Can you mention any, besides LdH that does not? E.g 2012 Latour is way too young when released in 2022
Well, Larry's own winery, Tercero, for one!
Paul

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Posts: 18180
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#32 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 28th, 2018, 11:38 am

I see nothing wrong with the note. Isn't this what so many folks here gratefully call, "taking one for the team"?
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Bob Hoelting
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 126
Joined: January 25th, 2012, 4:18 pm
Location: Santa Ana

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#33 Post by Bob Hoelting » October 28th, 2018, 11:47 am

Jay Miller wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:50 pm
Bob Hoelting wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:06 am
Michael Heinrich wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 3:16 am
I mean, if a winery releases wine that is too young to enjoy, why not point it out on CT?
If a user opens a wine that is too young to enjoy, why blame the winery? The winery (and by extension, us buyers) can not afford to let bottles sit at the winery for years.
How is posting an honest assessment of where a particular wine is at this point in time “blaming the winery?”
A poor reading on my part. In my mind, I inserted "is greedy enough" between "winery" and "releases" [oops.gif]
Apologies to Michael

NickRut
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 691
Joined: June 10th, 2016, 5:00 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#34 Post by NickRut » October 28th, 2018, 12:42 pm

Don’t most non grocery store wines release before their prime drinking window? I’d expect to see reviews like this for those.
Rutkowski

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 33785
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#35 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 28th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Interesting that Matt has decided not to participate in his thread
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#36 Post by MBerto » October 28th, 2018, 1:56 pm

Apologies, Neal, for not religiously check WB over the weekend. I have 2 small children and my wife was out of town.

Of course scores in and of themselves don’t matter. That’s not the issue. AND opening now and leaving a note is not only fine, but frankly encouraged - thanks for opening the bottle and letting me know it’s not ready!

The (very small) issue at hand is entering a score into the “official” (using quotes so hard here i almost fall down) CT system when by your own admission you didn’t think the wine was ready, and it wasn’t. You can’t ‘unskew’ it later, as CT includes scores with no notes in the average score - not that i would ever do this.

However to the extent you find scores useful in the least (and if you don’t find scores useful, feel free to, yannow, just not comment on threads regarding scores), giving “score today but it’s going to improve” isn’t that useful. Imagine if Spectator said, for an expensive Napa cab, “86 today but better later”. Surely you don’t think En Premier Bdx ratings reflect the wine in that state? I guess I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think that’s what they reflect.

I freely admit I’m picking lint off a $1000 suit here, but that’s my thought process. As you were.
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

AlexS
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 21475
Joined: February 19th, 2009, 4:05 pm
Location: Mwaukee, 'sconsin

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#37 Post by AlexS » October 28th, 2018, 2:18 pm

Pretty sure you can block a taster on CT, no? Some people also record TNs solely for their own reference, which could be the case here.

That said, seems somewhat odd to single out an actual TN like this one when there are literally thousands upon thousands of so-called TNs which are comprised of brief text like "tastes good" or worse, only just a score.
s t e w @ r t

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Posts: 18180
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#38 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 28th, 2018, 3:09 pm

Matt,

This really begs the question: what is a wine's score supposed to be? How it's presenting on the day it's tasted? or The anticipated peak?

Either is fine (and helpful), but without any global agreement from CT users, you're always going to have a mix of the two. And that is one of *many* reasons why the "CT ave. score" is worthless.
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#39 Post by MBerto » October 28th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Of course; that particular subject has been beaten like the proverbial dead horse around here, and I am not completely innocent in participating. This one stuck out to me precisely because of the “I think it’ll get better later but I’m going to score it as it is today” nature.

I will also note: I actually really like the CT average. It has plenty of issues; find me a scoring system that doesn’t. But on balance I’ve found it to be more reliable than most other indicators. This makes sense to me as well - the consensus opinion should be pretty good. This again is why this inclusion of “not representative” score stuck out to me.

I will now return to issues which have more pressing importance, such as doing preventative maintenance on the kitchen sink drain.
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

User avatar
Mark Y
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 7200
Joined: May 1st, 2009, 11:19 am
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#40 Post by Mark Y » October 28th, 2018, 3:39 pm

I actually think it's a good score.

it's not that great NOW - 87.. but he notes he expects it to get better.. great.. it reads to me as HOLD.

what should he score it? 91 based on what he think it MIGHT be in 5 years? i rather he just score it as is when it's opened.
Y.e.

User avatar
Merrill Lindquist
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 10896
Joined: July 22nd, 2009, 6:58 pm
Location: Calistoga, Napa Valley, CA

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#41 Post by Merrill Lindquist » October 28th, 2018, 4:20 pm

Speaking as a wine producer, one of the most important things my wine mentor told me 15 years ago: If you don't want people to open it and comment on it, don't release it. Once it is out of your hands, it is theirs to do what they want with it.
Merrill
EMH Vineyards - Home of the Black Cat
email:Merrill@EMHVineyards.com

User avatar
J Dove
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 264
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 3:12 pm
Location: NYC

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#42 Post by J Dove » October 28th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Joe S. wrote:
October 26th, 2018, 7:24 pm
A nice CT feature would be to plot a single wine's scores over time. That way people could rate it based on what it is now, and then we could see if it is improving, topping out, or declining over time. This would certainly help place wines in the "ready to drink" category. Of course, there are also so many wines with only a couple CT scores or with lots from prolific repetitive FanBoys here this would not work...

Funny -- I suggested the same thing to Eric just a week ago...
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Posts: 18180
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#43 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 28th, 2018, 9:57 pm

Merrill Lindquist wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 4:20 pm
Speaking as a wine producer, one of the most important things my wine mentor told me 15 years ago: If you don't want people to open it and comment on it, don't release it. Once it is out of your hands, it is theirs to do what they want with it.
Fantastic advice.
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#44 Post by MBerto » October 29th, 2018, 7:54 am

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 9:57 pm
Merrill Lindquist wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 4:20 pm
Speaking as a wine producer, one of the most important things my wine mentor told me 15 years ago: If you don't want people to open it and comment on it, don't release it. Once it is out of your hands, it is theirs to do what they want with it.
Fantastic advice.
I'm sure we can find an exception around here, but it's been my experience, especially when talking with a winemaker in any sort of sales context (ie tasting room, etc), where they won't say "Yes, it's fine to drink now", even if they add or privately think" but will also benefit from a few years of bottle age"
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#45 Post by MBerto » October 29th, 2018, 7:55 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 12:45 pm
Interesting that Matt has decided not to participate in his thread
Interesting that Neal has decided not to participate after this post

[stirthepothal.gif] [smileyvault-ban.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif]
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 33785
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#46 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 29th, 2018, 8:09 am

MBerto wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 7:55 am
Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 12:45 pm
Interesting that Matt has decided not to participate in his thread
Interesting that Neal has decided not to participate after this post

[stirthepothal.gif] [smileyvault-ban.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif]
LOL, I go from 2:45 on Sunday to 11:00 on Monday without posting in your thread and that earns a 5 emoji response?

I didn't start a thread complaining that someone else's CT note failed to meet my personal standards of excellence and then disappear from the resulting discussion for 2 days. But I know how busy you are . . . .
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Bryan Carr
Posts: 485
Joined: December 28th, 2015, 10:56 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#47 Post by Bryan Carr » October 29th, 2018, 11:05 am

Claus Jeppesen wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 3:58 am
larry schaffer wrote:
October 27th, 2018, 7:22 am
This is such an interesting thread in many ways. First of all, many wineries do release wines well before their prime drinking window. Some consumers realize this and some don't at all. I don't blame wineries for doing this, but it might be good for them to note this, especially with those who are not regular drinkers.

Second, I agree with others that it should not matter what someone else says about a wine that you own. I know that cellartracker can be a good guide at times, but it is not meant to replace your own experiences or palate, is it?

Cheers
Can you mention any, besides LdH that does not? E.g 2012 Latour is way too young when released in 2022
I think us nerds forget that probably 80-90% of wine doesn't get any better by holding onto it and IS best within a year or two of release. Only a very small percentage of wine is vin de garde, though I'd say it probably makes up an outsize proportion of what we on the boards buy and discuss. Most whites, almost all roses, iberian joven wine, cotes du rhone, most washington and california wine under $35, all tawny and ruby port, most sparkling wine, etc etc are all ready on release give or take. Only the upper 10-20% of wine made is not explicitly ready when released. I think if we're talking 6-9 months to "settle down" that's one thing, but 2-5 years isn't necessary for the vast majority of wine that isn't vin de garde.

I'd never thought about it much, but I think I do agree with Larry, I think if you were selling some backward-as-all-hell-right-now 15 year cabernet to some casuals that waltz in it might be helpful to them to just gently say 'heads up, this wine is gonna be hard to wrangle for a few years, if you can sleep on it for 24 months you'll enjoy it more', but know that 9 times out of 10 that bottle is getting drank within the week.

In WA there are a few wineries who hold back vin de garde bottles until their "prime" windows, Cougar Crest and Five Star explicitly hold their wines back 5-8 years from bottling so they're ready to go out the gate, there's also a producer (Lawrelin) who is only just now releasing 2003/2004s for this same reason.
CT: the_lovenest

User avatar
MBerto
Posts: 3828
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 10:16 am
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#48 Post by MBerto » October 29th, 2018, 11:36 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 8:09 am
MBerto wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 7:55 am
Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 12:45 pm
Interesting that Matt has decided not to participate in his thread
Interesting that Neal has decided not to participate after this post

[stirthepothal.gif] [smileyvault-ban.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif] [berserker.gif]
LOL, I go from 2:45 on Sunday to 11:00 on Monday without posting in your thread and that earns a 5 emoji response?

I didn't start a thread complaining that someone else's CT note failed to meet my personal standards of excellence and then disappear from the resulting discussion for 2 days. But I know how busy you are . . . .
Well now that I'm back at work obviously I've got more free time...
M@TT Bert0 lat us
insta @m@tthewbertol@tus (a's not @'s)

User avatar
Claus Jeppesen
Posts: 1721
Joined: April 27th, 2010, 2:42 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#49 Post by Claus Jeppesen » October 29th, 2018, 11:51 am

P Intag wrote:
October 28th, 2018, 8:57 am

Well, Larry's own winery, Tercero, for one!
Compared to the current LdH GR release (1995) the current release Tercero wines do not seemvreal mature?
Any others like LdH?
Last edited by Claus Jeppesen on October 29th, 2018, 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Claus

Riesling and Slate

User avatar
Markus S
Posts: 6058
Joined: May 20th, 2010, 7:27 am

Re: What do we think about this tasting note from a not-ready wine?

#50 Post by Markus S » October 29th, 2018, 11:52 am

MBerto wrote:
October 29th, 2018, 11:36 am
Well now that I'm back at work obviously I've got more free time...
Works for lawyers! [snort.gif]
$ _ € ® e . k @

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”