What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

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Michae1 P0wers
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What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#1 Post by Michae1 P0wers » October 23rd, 2018, 6:41 am

I've seen mixed notes on these wines over the years, and there has been some discussion here about various wines from this vintage, but I'm curious to see what people think happened with this producer in this vintage. I've opened several wines including four Choiselles, one last night, all of which have been gold to brown and advanced, flat on the nose and palate, and seemingly irredeemable. I've put the cork in this one to revisit but the others have never recovered. Some have suggested this is a phase, but if its a phase its something like I've never seen before, where many wines from a vintage show hallmarks of premox yet people suggest they will recover. I've heard of Huet with premox, but it seems to be more isolated, even in a bad vintage it appears more hit-and-miss than what has happened here. I'd love to hear what those who actually taste regularly in the Loire have to say about this.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#2 Post by Chris Tuttle » October 23rd, 2018, 10:23 am

I've had 2 different 2014's in the last six months, and while mine were light gold colored, neither had any advanced traits. My problem with them can best be described as being too "rough" for me. I can't remember the alcohol, but I do remember these hitting me kind of hard (full disc: I am a lightweight). I also felt the acidity sticking out too much.

I hope folks pipe up with other Vouvray and Montlouis options outside of Huet, since I haven't bought any Chidaine since 2014.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#3 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 23rd, 2018, 10:32 am

I've had several 2014s over the last year, and none were advanced.

That said, I did not like any of them very much. They just seemed lifeless.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#4 Post by Michae1 P0wers » October 23rd, 2018, 11:15 am

Thanks Chris and David. In a way your findings only make it more interesting and more obvious that something wasn't right. Many notes, particularly on the Choiselles, indicate advanced wines, but others just say they weren't very good. 2014 seems a good vintage for Loire Chenin, so it shouldn't have been hard to make good wines and it seems that something went wrong.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#5 Post by Chris Seiber » October 23rd, 2018, 3:32 pm

I don’t really remember the vintages and bottling, but I had been a fan of Chidaine several years ago and I’m just kind of not anymore. Slightly advanced bottles with an apple cider flavor, bottles with a kind of flat feel and no energy.

It’s entirely possible I just the wrong bottlings and vintages, but I think I’m going to look elsewhere going forward.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#6 Post by Jeff Vaughan » October 23rd, 2018, 5:17 pm

I've been through almost a case of 14', a mix of the different bottlings, and about half have been advanced or off. Very disappointing given this was supposed to be a good vintage. I had hoped it would be much like 2010, where Chidaine's wines continue to show very well.

I agree with Chris's comments about the apple cider flavors and lack of energy, in the ones that are off.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#7 Post by Warren Taranow » May 6th, 2019, 10:04 pm

2014 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Choisilles
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." Well maybe not exaggerated, but this was a great bottle tonight. While fairly golden yellow in color, the nose and palate were not at all advanced. Gorgeous lemon curd and a little honey, maybe lanolin. Nicely textured, with ample mineral/acid cut. I'd suspect this bottle would have lasted years, although others have reported the pox.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#8 Post by Eric Sch » May 7th, 2019, 8:40 am

I also had a very nice bottle of the 14 Les Choiselles last week. Though I do intend to drink though my 14s faster than originally planned.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#9 Post by Doug Schulman » May 7th, 2019, 9:15 am

There have been a lot of reports of problems with the '14s. There was a thread on it a while back.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#10 Post by Michael Malinoski » May 7th, 2019, 1:30 pm

I missed the previous thread on the topic, but can weigh in to say that a bottle of the 2014 Vouvray Le Bouchet about a week ago was very nice indeed. Not as much lift or acidic spring to it as a 2015 Montluis Clos du Breuil, but with more weight and a more rounded and rewarding fruit core. No signs of advanced flavors in either.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#11 Post by G. Greenbaum » May 7th, 2019, 4:22 pm

I taste at the domain's tasting room in Montluis a few weeks ago. I didn't take any notes but my picture shows we tasted '15 Bouchet, 2 '16 Molleuxs and the remainder 2017. 14 wines in total including a sparkling and the rose. The quality was impressive. I cannot speak to the '14s, but I still have '08s to drink (and have loved most of them, especially the Bournais, Habert and Bouchet).
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#12 Post by Jayson Cohen » May 7th, 2019, 4:50 pm

G. Greenbaum wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 4:22 pm
I taste at the domain's tasting room in Montluis a few weeks ago. I didn't take any notes but my picture shows we tasted '15 Bouchet, 2 '16 Molleuxs and the remainder 2017. 14 wines in total including a sparkling and the rose. The quality was impressive. I cannot speak to the '14s, but I still have '08s to drink (and have loved most of them, especially the Bernaise, Habert and Bouchet).
The verdict is still out given the longevity of Vouvray/Montlouis, but 2008 is looking like it may turn out to be the best vintage since 1996, especially for those who like a bit less botrytis in their wines. Time will tell. Outside Huet’s 2002 problems, other domaines are strong in 2002 as well. And 2014.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#13 Post by Frank Murray III » May 7th, 2019, 9:39 pm

I still have a handful of Vouvray and MSL secs from 05, 08 and 10, and a couple 15. I'll get another 08 open soon and post on it. Alan just posted some thoughts on a 10 Bournais....wasn't too positive.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#14 Post by Jeff Vaughan » May 8th, 2019, 6:00 am

This past weekend I opened an 08 Bournais from magnum that showed well. I opened a 10 Bournais a month or so ago that also showed well. I don't think I have had an 08 or 10 that have disappointed. The 14's are a crap shoot, however. Some are good and and some are bad.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#15 Post by Chris Kissack » May 8th, 2019, 6:12 am

Last tasted his 2014s back in 2017 and no problem then, in fact they were fine. Have a few tucked away, will have to take another look.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#16 Post by Jim Stewart » May 8th, 2019, 3:20 pm

IMG_3534.JPG
Opened this for dinner tonight. In very good shape. Yummily off dry. Energetic and delicious. Maybe a TN to follow.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#17 Post by Frank Murray III » May 9th, 2019, 4:47 pm

It's not the 2014, but my last 2011. Figured I would give it a go last night and then a retry tonight. Drinking OK but also moments of 'meh'. I'm left now with a smattering of 2008s, 2010s and 2015s in the cellar.
  • 2011 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Choisilles - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (5/8/2019)
    Geez, 3 notes in the last 3+ years across the community? And my last one was from 2016. Decided to open this tonight, as I wanted a white and didn't know how this would show. This started off odd, with an oily like texture/palate impression. And, it was kind of bitter, although that ain't far off from my 2016 note when I noted that impression. So, left the wine in the glass, refreshed it with a cooler pour, and now tasting again about 90 mins later. Will say the odd quality seemed to go away, as it's drinking cleaner, with tangerine, lime and the same green tropical thing I noted in 2016. For now, I am going to withhold judgment until tomorrow, when I will do another glass with dinner and see what it shows....retasting the following day at ideal temp. This has improved but it has an odd-like balance, with a pear, tart apple, tangerine and a bitter note. My last 2011 Chidaine, and time to find a Pinot Noir from the cellar to enjoy with the NHL Conf Final tonight.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#18 Post by David_K » June 5th, 2019, 6:03 pm

For whatever it's worth, I opened a '15 Habert tonight and it was terrific, just as good as it was on release. Very lively and fresh; no oxidation. Meanwhile the '14s were nearly a drain pour by this point. Didn't buy any '16s or '17s based on the nosedive the '14s took, but this is giving me the urge to try again with Chidaine, because when they're on they're just so good.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#19 Post by Tim Dennis » September 5th, 2019, 12:43 pm

Opened a 2014 Chidaine Les Choisilles last night which was completely oxidized and undrinkable. Went and grabbed a second bottle of the same thing, and this one was advanced, but still drinkable. No where near as good as the bottle I opened in 2016 shortly after receiving them. Very disappointing. I think I still have 6 bottles of 2014 Chidaine left, so I’d better drink up (or pour out, depending on what comes out of the bottle).

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#20 Post by Scott Goodwin » September 5th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Uh oh. I've still got more than 2 cases of '14 Chidaines. Guess I need to pull a few corks over the weekend.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#21 Post by Bob Hughes » September 6th, 2019, 2:36 pm

Just IMO, but I wouldn't write off Chidaine because of '14 - I've had numerous '15's and 16's that were anywhere from solid to delicious. But I would agree with Jeff Vaughan's assessment that for whatever reason, the 14's have really been hit or miss.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#22 Post by Russ Williams » March 25th, 2020, 4:17 pm

I purchased 2 cases of 14’s and I have been through 16 bottles. It has been a 25% success ratio which is beyond absurd. The wines are not expensive so that certainly helps cushion the blow, but I’m done buying these wines. My palate has shifted to champagne, so I’ll spend my money there.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#23 Post by Jeff Vaughan » March 26th, 2020, 6:01 am

I opened a Clos du Breuil last week. Completely oxidized. From 2014, I am down to just a couple Clos Baudoin. So far, they have been fine. I'm not sure what happened with 2014, but I would love to know what the issue was. Hopefully, they know at the winery.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#24 Post by Bill Moore » March 26th, 2020, 6:21 am

I'll join the chorus here and say that 2014 was definitely an off vintage for Chidaine. I liked them immediately upon release but felt they very quickly lost their initial verve and just seemed more flat and listless with each successive bottle (and I've had about a dozen from across their lineup). The exception was the Clos Baudoin, which has held up well for me. I suppose it isn't surprising given that it's typically the wine with the most staying power in their portfolio.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#25 Post by Chris Seiber » March 26th, 2020, 1:55 pm

Bill Moore wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 6:21 am
I'll join the chorus here and say that 2014 was definitely an off vintage for Chidaine. I liked them immediately upon release but felt they very quickly lost their initial verve and just seemed more flat and listless with each successive bottle (and I've had about a dozen from across their lineup). The exception was the Clos Baudoin, which has held up well for me. I suppose it isn't surprising given that it's typically the wine with the most staying power in their portfolio.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#26 Post by Jeff Vaughan » March 27th, 2020, 6:10 am

I opened a 2014 Baudoin last night. It was not pristine. So frustrating. One bottle left and I won't wait long.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#27 Post by David_K » March 27th, 2020, 6:16 am

Jeff Vaughan wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 6:10 am
I opened a 2014 Baudoin last night. It was not pristine. So frustrating. One bottle left and I won't wait long.
That sucks to hear. What annoys me more than anything is that basically nobody outside of amateur tasters has acknowledged the problem. Most retailers I've spoken to claim to be unaware of the issue. I stayed away for a couple years but am now dipping my toes back in with 17s and 18s because I missed the wines. But if it happens again then I'm out.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#28 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 27th, 2020, 12:38 pm

I have 2 Bouchet and 3 Choisilles from 2014, bought "opportunistically" because I typically just buy the Habert and leave it at that, but I somehow missed the Habert in '14 and grabbed some of these others before I found this thread. Some "opportunity," eh?

Clearly, I need to try at least one so I just put two Choissilles in the fridge on the assumption that at least the first one will go down the sink. I'll report back. I hope these issues don't start appearing in '10s, '11s, '15s, and '17s, which are the other vintages I'm long (for me) on Chidaine.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#29 Post by Jeff Vaughan » March 27th, 2020, 1:07 pm

Dave, my last 08's and 10's were fantastic. I didn't buy any 11's. I may drink a 15 side by side with my last 14 Baudoin.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#30 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 27th, 2020, 2:25 pm

2014 Choissilles - Pop and pour straight from the fridge - yellow/gold, not deep gold or gold/brown. No oxidative notes on the nose or the palate. Not super expressive yet, but needs to warm up for a few minutes before I return to it. Cautiously optimistic!

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#31 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 27th, 2020, 3:53 pm

Update - I'll call this one a success. Too young, really, but certainly not flawed in any way. Now, because of this I'll sit on my others and they'll be drain cleaner when I open them.

And so it goes.

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#32 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 27th, 2020, 6:41 pm

Second update - put half the bottle back in the fridge and had it with dinner. Much more open now, overall a terrific bottle. Hopefully not the only good one in my ‘14 stash!

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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#33 Post by Rob_S » March 28th, 2020, 6:48 am

Is it just the '14s? I only have a couple of bottles of his sparkler from 14 left but have a bunch of '15s across the spectrum.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#34 Post by David_K » March 28th, 2020, 6:53 am

Rob_S wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 6:48 am
Is it just the '14s? I only have a couple of bottles of his sparkler from 14 left but have a bunch of '15s across the spectrum.
Rob, I have not had the same issue with the 15s. Opened a '15 Habert last June and still super fresh.
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Re: What is the deal with the 2014 Chidaine wines?

#35 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » March 28th, 2020, 12:04 pm

As long I'm over-posting in this thread, I want to take this time to thank the anonymous (to me) young somm at Commander's Palace who turned me on to Chidaine (via the Habert, don't remember the vintage) several years ago when I told her I liked Huet demi-sec and was looking for something like that to go with dinner with my wife and daughters. She professed a great love for off-dry Chenin and sent me straight to Montluis. Well done, and thank you! [cheers.gif]

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