Question on aging kabinetts and sulphur

I have this kind of technical thought in my mind and I was hoping to get educated by the board. I really like kabinetts and I am aging a couple cases of 2015’s mostly. The board consensus on aging kabinetts is mostly positive. In my understanding of kabinetts the reason they are still have some sweetness and are 7-9 percent alcohol is that they stop the fermentation with a lot of sulphur. Even though I love kabinetts in the back of my mind it seems a pretty unnatural process. But my question is doesn’t this seem as though aging these wouldn’t produce positive effects? Now I know almost all wine has sulphur added and sulphur doesn’t stop many wines from aging well but to me this seems as though maybe it’s a lot more sulphur and the environment may be even more “dead”. Any elucidation would be appreciated.

It’s not like there is a cloud of sulfur over the wine. In fact the sulfur levels in German wine are much lower than they used to be. I won’t spend that much time there, as I can tell you that German Kabinett ages spectacularly well, especially from better producers.

I regularly have 15-20 year old Kabinett from my cellar, and it is usually still quite fresh, but has also developed additional layers of flavor from the bottle aging. It’s no longer as sweet, nor as fruity, so if those characteristics grab you then don’t age them. If you want a more mature wine, with deeper tones, smoke elements, minerals laid bare, then go ahead and age the wines. Five to ten years won’t get to that full maturity, but you’ll get a lovely blend of youthful and aged notes.

I don’t really understand the question.

I think he’s assuming there’s more sulfur in Riesling due to the fermentation process and asking how the higher sulfur level affects aging.

I don’t understand an assumption that there’s a negative correlation between use of sulphur and ability to age. Quite the opposite, that’s the point!

I don’t think halting fermentation with SO2 is really done anymore. Good producers tend to cool and filter, if I remember correctly. In any case, the wines from the '70s and before had far more SO2 than modern wines, and I think we can say they’ve aged quite well.

Pretty much this

Are you sure (on the first bit)?

I’m pretty sure sulphur is still ubiquitous for stopping fermentation of off dry and sweet wines.

Even the ‘natural’ end like Trossen.

I think the OP misunderstands the role of sulfur in the aging process. The following

suggests an assumption that sulfur, as an antimicrobial and antioxidant, will stop or inhibit normal aging processes. It doesn’t.

Sulfur inhibits oxidation, allowing aging reactions to occur.

At least for the off dry wines (e.g. Feinherb), several producers have stated to me that they just let the wine go until it stops fermenting.

+1 what Doug said. And if you want them buy them. You will think you’re a genius later.

But why wouldn’t they ferment to fully dry then?

You’ll have to ask the wine.

Until the evidence comes back from the new techniques, you might want to qualify that a little - German wines USED TO age spectacularly well with high sulfur content - but whether they will age spectacularly well with low sulfur content remains to be seen.

The 2001 Kabinett wines are purring along just fine as they near 20 years of age.

But you go on and

Thanks David. This is what I am trying to understand. But it sounds like your saying sulphur is needed to age. When did sulphur start getting added? Does 47 cheval have sulphur. But I’m also wondering how much more sulphur german kabinetts have then a normal bottle. Also having a lot of unfermented juice in the wine does that age as well as almost all other wine that is fully fermented at 12-16 percent alcohol.

There is not “unfermented juice.” There is residual sugar.

Assuming kabinetts (and spätlesen as long as I’m asking) from better vintages and better producers, my goal would be to age them as long as needed to get deeper tones and other benefits of bottle age, but to drink them before noticeable petrol comes along. Recognizing the limits of any general guidelines, what general guidelines would you suggest (or anyone else who wants to chime in) for such a goal?

Cheers!

Petrol is a bit of a wild card. There is no specific time for it to appear or for it to eventually disappear. It’s wine specific.

Sorry to not have a better answer.

From my understanding (and though I drink a nice amount of great wine I brew beer) residual sugar usually is because of complex sugars that yeast can’t ferment. This is different. This is grape juice that is easily fermentable but your stopping it in its tracks. So what’s left is some alcohol and some juice. This is different than just letting grapes ferment until it’s done. In some ways a kabinett is a concocted creation just like a lemonade and bourbon. So this concept plus the high amount of sulphur is what makes me think about it. But I love kabinetts so im trying to figure this out as I love the purist components of wine. Sorry for discussing this in this manner but I have been wondering.