Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12603
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#101 Post by J a y H a c k » October 3rd, 2018, 7:43 am

Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices. Maybe instead of the local alcohol regulators your could complain to the FTC.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#102 Post by J.Durham » October 3rd, 2018, 7:50 am

Thanks for the review of terms. If you are interested my order was not processed online was a direct transaction with the concierge service via email.

I’ll re-engage and report back. That “guaranteed” line on the website really pissed me off. Hadn’t seen that before.
-Josh

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 14456
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#103 Post by Victor Hong » October 3rd, 2018, 8:19 am

J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 7:50 am
Thanks for the review of terms. If you are interested my order was not processed online was a direct transaction with the concierge service via email.

I’ll re-engage and report back. That “guaranteed” line on the website really pissed me off. Hadn’t seen that before.
That offline processing sounds very odd for a big e-commerce business, posing inadequate control of inventories and orders.
WineHunter.

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
Posts: 33033
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#104 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 3rd, 2018, 8:23 am

Victor Hong wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 8:19 am
J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 7:50 am
Thanks for the review of terms. If you are interested my order was not processed online was a direct transaction with the concierge service via email.

I’ll re-engage and report back. That “guaranteed” line on the website really pissed me off. Hadn’t seen that before.
That offline processing sounds very odd for a big e-commerce business, posing inadequate control of inventories and orders.
they were selling futures before they got their page up and running. I bought a few by email to, though I think those were 14s (my memory is not sharp on this.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#105 Post by J.Durham » October 3rd, 2018, 8:47 am

Victor Hong wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 8:19 am
J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 7:50 am
Thanks for the review of terms. If you are interested my order was not processed online was a direct transaction with the concierge service via email.

I’ll re-engage and report back. That “guaranteed” line on the website really pissed me off. Hadn’t seen that before.
That offline processing sounds very odd for a big e-commerce business, posing inadequate control of inventories and orders.
I don’t think so. I got an electronic confirmation just like always and in a timely manner. Looking at my emails I think they never posted VCC online. I was inquiring when they would be available and they responded with “how many do you want?”
-Josh

User avatar
ky1em!ttskus
Posts: 4500
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 7:38 am

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#106 Post by ky1em!ttskus » October 3rd, 2018, 8:56 am

J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 7:50 am
Thanks for the review of terms. If you are interested my order was not processed online was a direct transaction with the concierge service via email.

I’ll re-engage and report back. That “guaranteed” line on the website really pissed me off. Hadn’t seen that before.
Get ‘em, doc! [berserker.gif]

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 14456
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#107 Post by Victor Hong » October 3rd, 2018, 9:34 am

Some people might remember when I purchased some high-end 2000 Bordeaux from Grapes Wine of Norwalk CT, and the store afterwards tried to steer me to other offerings and eventually cancelled most of my order. The owners then, like Jim Caplan, had some fun with Connecticut authorities. In the end, the retailer delivered only a case of 2000 D'Armhailhac for $20 per bottle.
WineHunter.

R. Frankel
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1589
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#108 Post by R. Frankel » October 3rd, 2018, 9:41 am

Funny, I filled out that oddly non-digital form to order futures for the 2014 vintage. Maybe 5 cases. Sent it in but never heard back. After an email ping or two I gave up. Seemed like they didn’t have things together.
Rich Frankel

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#109 Post by J.Durham » October 3rd, 2018, 10:29 am

So, after a more terse email last night got a call from Cyrus who runs the program(he’s also the one who processed my order). He reported a breakage in the warehouse as the culprit and they had oversold so had no extras. They were working on getting more, which should be confirmed this week. Wine should be here by Christmas.
Apparently I’m not the only one with this issue. He was polite and apologetic.

So, if this was the initial response this thread wouldn’t be here. I’ll keep everyone posted on how this works out, but much more satisfying.

Thanks for the encouragement to keep pushing.
-Josh

User avatar
Neal.Mollen
Posts: 33033
Joined: January 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#110 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 3rd, 2018, 10:35 am

J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:29 am
So, after a more terse email last night got a call from Cyrus who runs the program(he’s also the one who processed my order). He reported a breakage in the warehouse as the culprit and they had oversold so had no extras. They were working on getting more, which should be confirmed this week. Wine should be here by Christmas.
Apparently I’m not the only one with this issue. He was polite and apologetic.

So, if this was the initial response this thread wouldn’t be here. I’ll keep everyone posted on how this works out, but much more satisfying.

Thanks for the encouragement to keep pushing.
Good work and great news! You might want to edit the title and post the update in the first post
I don't have to speak; she defends me

A drunkard's dream if I ever did see one

User avatar
Brian G r a f s t r o m
Posts: 18047
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am
Location: westside

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#111 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » October 3rd, 2018, 12:49 pm

I wouldn't edit the title. They still haven't made good.
Los Angeles Workers' Compensation and Personal Injury

“All these characters spend their time explaining themselves, and happily recognizing that they hold the same opinions … how important they consider it to think the same things all together.” --- A.R.

CT handle: grafstrb

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6062
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#112 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 3rd, 2018, 1:18 pm

And if you hadn’t kicked up a fuss, they would probably not made good. I bought my VCC futures from the UK, who tell me they that they have not yet received product, so I am a little sceptical about a warehouse accident.

Also quite frankly warehouses do not have accidents. A friend who runs one told me that they have probably lost the equivalent of a case in the ten years they have been open. All in all, the story is a little weird, and I hope Josh does indeed get his wine.
ITB
I could agree with you, but then we both would be wrong.

Greg K
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 783
Joined: December 21st, 2013, 3:16 pm
Location: New York

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#113 Post by Greg K » October 3rd, 2018, 1:22 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 1:18 pm
And if you hadn’t kicked up a fuss, they would probably not made good. I bought my VCC futures from the UK, who tell me they that they have not yet received product, so I am a little sceptical about a warehouse accident.

Also quite frankly warehouses do not have accidents. A friend who runs one told me that they have probably lost the equivalent of a case in the ten years they have been open. All in all, the story is a little weird, and I hope Josh does indeed get his wine.
I’m suspicious as well, when there are accidents in such quantity. I’ve had individual bottles I was owed break, but how do you lose cases of Bordeaux?
Greg Kahn

R. Frankel
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1589
Joined: January 24th, 2014, 11:07 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#114 Post by R. Frankel » October 3rd, 2018, 1:40 pm

Greg K wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 1:22 pm
I’m suspicious as well, when there are accidents in such quantity. I’ve had individual bottles I was owed break, but how do you lose cases of Bordeaux?
Cases? If true, I’d guess thievery.
Rich Frankel

Ethan H
Posts: 70
Joined: July 21st, 2015, 2:36 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#115 Post by Ethan H » October 3rd, 2018, 2:55 pm

This thread had me getting nervous that perhaps TW would back out from delivering my 2015 Ch. Margaux (granted, just a single bottle, but it has more than doubled in price). So I was glad to get an email confirmation today that it's now available for pickup.

As someone who worked at a large wine retailer (Sam's, Chicago, 21-22 years ago) I can assure you that breakage does happen. But statistically it's way more likely to happen to something like Delicato Chardonnay than to a rare gem.
H*e*I*n*Z (like the catsup)

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 14456
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#116 Post by Victor Hong » October 3rd, 2018, 4:41 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 12:49 pm
I wouldn't edit the title. They still haven't made good.
OK. How about Broken (Maybe) Wine.

Indeed, if pre-arrival wines exist, maybe so do pre-broken wines. [wow.gif]
WineHunter.

User avatar
J Dove
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 264
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 3:12 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#117 Post by J Dove » October 3rd, 2018, 4:46 pm

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. Now you have a great story to tell along with the wine...
J i m (Bordeauxnut)

User avatar
J a y H a c k
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 12603
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 9:59 am

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#118 Post by J a y H a c k » October 4th, 2018, 6:48 am

J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:29 am
. . . He reported a breakage in the warehouse . . .
I got the same story about my 2000 D'Issan. I have been told by other store owners that "The case was dropped while carrying it down to the basement" is the wine shop equivalent of "the dog ate my homework." BUT if you get the wine, as I did, it doesn't matter.
Yes, that's a DM of 1978 Mouton!

You can read my Financial Institutions Law Blog at https://www.gdblaw.com/blog?practiceID=4985.

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6062
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#119 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 4th, 2018, 10:39 am

I was talking to a friend who also deals in futures, who told me that Total’s pricing on some of the futures were at his cost. Josh, can you tell me what you paid for your case?
ITB
I could agree with you, but then we both would be wrong.

User avatar
D@vid Bu3ker
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 32211
Joined: February 14th, 2009, 8:06 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#120 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 4th, 2018, 11:34 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 1:18 pm
Also quite frankly warehouses do not have accidents.
Oh yes they do.

I was present (thankfully from a distance - 100 feet or so) at a warehouse when a fork truck driver knocked over a multi-pallet stack of wine. Thousands of bottles broken in the span of seconds.
David Bueker - Rieslingfan

User avatar
David_K
Posts: 753
Joined: July 17th, 2014, 7:01 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#121 Post by David_K » October 4th, 2018, 11:40 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 4th, 2018, 11:34 am
Mark Golodetz wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 1:18 pm
Also quite frankly warehouses do not have accidents.
Oh yes they do.

I was present (thankfully from a distance - 100 feet or so) at a warehouse when a fork truck driver knocked over a multi-pallet stack of wine. Thousands of bottles broken in the span of seconds.
See also:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/m-of-mo ... 4ca9936bdf
K@ntrОwi╦z

User avatar
Victor Hong
Posts: 14456
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:34 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#122 Post by Victor Hong » October 4th, 2018, 12:07 pm

No fireball?
WineHunter.

Jeff D a v i e s
Posts: 71
Joined: October 9th, 2009, 5:21 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#123 Post by Jeff D a v i e s » October 4th, 2018, 5:42 pm

I got some of my 2015 VCC last spring so it has been in the country. (not from Total Wine). I have also experienced warehouse losses in the past
Cheers

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#124 Post by J.Durham » October 4th, 2018, 6:49 pm

I have no opinion on whether there was really a warehouse loss or not, but it's a better story than nothing. Any story is better than imcompetence.

-Confirmed that they had secured more '15's today, so fingers crossed for Nov/Dec delivery.
-Also got to keep the Eglise-Clint at "release price" though available at other retailers for the same price currently (but not in Texas)

Hopefully this will all work out.
-Josh

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#125 Post by Arv R » October 6th, 2018, 3:38 pm

J.Durham wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:29 am
So, after a more terse email last night got a call from Cyrus who runs the program(he’s also the one who processed my order). He reported a breakage in the warehouse as the culprit and they had oversold so had no extras. They were working on getting more, which should be confirmed this week. Wine should be here by Christmas.
Apparently I’m not the only one with this issue. He was polite and apologetic.

So, if this was the initial response this thread wouldn’t be here. I’ll keep everyone posted on how this works out, but much more satisfying.

Thanks for the encouragement to keep pushing.
Perhaps their online reputation management consultants pointed out the thread to them. Maybe fixing this delivery issue, and absorbing the PnL loss from whatever their own error/glitch was, is money better spent than all the coupons, flyers, catalogs TW constantly mail out. Or the emails about the luxury Chinese wine made in the Xanadu high country.

Good luck. At some point I think you need to have some agreement with them on when they'll deliver, and if not, what liquidated damages should be. If the wine keeps going up in price, they'll be even more sluggish about delivering or paying market rate settlement.
R_@_0

Frank Drew
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5525
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 8:08 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC

#126 Post by Frank Drew » October 7th, 2018, 8:52 am

Jim Brennan wrote:
October 2nd, 2018, 5:31 pm
This isn't like wine generally where the vast majority of "wine drinkers" are buy crap like Apothic Red and Cupcake from the selves of the local supermarket, or at TGI Fridays.

Once you get into the world of selling "futures", we become a notable component of the crowd they're interested in.
Absolutely right, Jim. Buyers of upper level wines are a fraction of wine buyers overall,
and buyers of Bordeaux futures are a fraction of that fraction.

Frank Drew
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 5525
Joined: February 1st, 2009, 8:08 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#127 Post by Frank Drew » October 7th, 2018, 9:18 am

Legally, is a disclaimer such as TW’s necessarily the last word on the subject: Years ago, I garaged my vehicle in a commercial garage in NYC; the attendant who parked it tore off a rear view mirrow while pulling too close to a concrete pillar.
Like most garages and similar spaces, they had “We’re Not Responsible For Any Damage” signs posted about, but of course they were and they covered my repair costs without any fuss.

I’m surprised when any retailer or service provider puts their business reputation at risk so casually.

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#128 Post by Arv R » October 7th, 2018, 9:39 am

I must have had the same garage attendant. He dinged my rear quarter panel, and then decided to spray paint (!) over it, hoping to conceal this til I left their premises.

And yes I agree on the whole reputation thing. The point of futures is to deliver odd formats, or scarce stuff like 2015 VCC or Canon. If they can't do that, there is no point. I don't think paying ahead of time makes any sense nowadays, with the way the market has changed.
R_@_0

User avatar
Mark Golodetz
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 6062
Joined: May 29th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#129 Post by Mark Golodetz » October 7th, 2018, 10:07 am

With the exceptions noted, it stopped making sense in the early 1990s. If there had been a market after that, ludicrous pricing in 2005 took care of it. I am not sure why we all get our knickers in a twist over futures, it is currently a vehicle for chateaux to force product onto merchants, who do their best to sell onto consumers.
ITB
I could agree with you, but then we both would be wrong.

User avatar
Randy Bowman
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 9614
Joined: January 27th, 2009, 2:23 pm
Location: Napa, CA

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - possible resolution

#130 Post by Randy Bowman » October 7th, 2018, 7:13 pm

When we opened our store in 2001, my brother-in-law helped us set up the website, make contacts and gave us advice on wine clubs, ratings, wines that move and buying futures from France. He had been in the retail wine business for 15 years, had wine clubs and he had an import license. He explained that he got the import license in hopes of getting the wine he wasn't getting buying futures from 8 or 10 majors. He spent several thousand dollars flying back and forth to France, Spain and Italy making contacts to import wine. Most of the wineries said they couldn't guarantee any wine because they were at their limit of production. If anything went wrong and they didn't have enough wine, the pecking order made him the first one not to receive any wine. The futures business model gives you extra money to work with for a year, but if you don't get the wine, you have to replace that money, that wine and placate your customers in some fashion.

Futures: There is only so much wine. There are only so many wineries. There are too many people offering futures. Shit will happen and there won't be enough wine. If you are very low on the list, you don't get wine.
IN THE BUSINESS SHILL: An associate of a person selling goods, who pretends no association to the seller and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#131 Post by J.Durham » April 20th, 2019, 5:20 pm

So happy to report this turned out ok. I got my wine today and was also given the option of buying another 6-pk at the initial release price. Everything worked out in the end, though I feel like I had to push harder than I should have to have them come through.
-Josh

User avatar
Arv R
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: January 11th, 2015, 3:53 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#132 Post by Arv R » April 20th, 2019, 6:31 pm

I'm glad it worked out for you. And that you reported the initial issue, and then closed out the story here. Although its nice they offered you another six pack or so, which sounds like 'free money', I don't think lauding a vendor for delivering as agreed upon is worth massive kudos.

It's like my dog who expects a treat every time they do their biz in the official area for that. And herds me back to the treat jar afterwards thinking they've earned something.
R_@_0

User avatar
JIMCOH
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 494
Joined: April 30th, 2010, 7:28 pm
Location: Bridgewater, CT

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#133 Post by JIMCOH » April 20th, 2019, 7:04 pm

Arv R wrote:
April 20th, 2019, 6:31 pm
It's like my dog who expects a treat every time they do their biz in the official area for that. And herds me back to the treat jar afterwards thinking they've earned something.
If you haven't learned that this is how it works, consider yourself, "Still in training." [wink.gif]
Jim Cohen

User avatar
J.Durham
Posts: 539
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#134 Post by J.Durham » April 20th, 2019, 8:26 pm

No “massive kudos” here. Customer service was initially terrible. Eventually I got plugged in with the guy in charge and things got fixed. I shouldn’t have had to spend as much time or effort as I did, but in the end they appologized and I got what I purchased. I updated this so people are aware.
-Josh

User avatar
Paul McCourt
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 16510
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 9:03 pm

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#135 Post by Paul McCourt » April 20th, 2019, 8:56 pm

This whole sequence of events concerns me and good final outcome or no, makes me ver hesitant to order from them, especially since 375’s are a primary futures reason for me.

I am glad you got your wine, though. What a hassle.
PauLeeeenda 2020: Tasty Waves and a Cool Buzz for America

User avatar
Jason T
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1832
Joined: June 8th, 2014, 7:45 am
Location: London

Re: Total Wine Futures - Nondelivery of '15 VCC - Happy Ending!

#136 Post by Jason T » April 21st, 2019, 4:10 pm

J.Durham wrote:
April 20th, 2019, 5:20 pm
So happy to report this turned out ok. I got my wine today and was also given the option of buying another 6-pk at the initial release price. Everything worked out in the end, though I feel like I had to push harder than I should have to have them come through.
Josh, glad it worked out for you.
J@son Tr@ughber

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”