The Next MACDONALD?

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blarmston
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The Next MACDONALD?

#1 Post by blarmston » September 26th, 2018, 4:59 pm

Lots of talk and love recently on this board for MACDONALD, and with good reason- the wine and the story and the people are awesome.

It got me to thinking about what Napa estate will be the next cult success story? I would think there needs to be some combination of limited supply, an up and coming winemaker that as of now is flying under the radar of most wine enthusiasts, a grape source that is nearly impossible to procure, all with an endearing story that ties it all together.

While I am clearly not the smartest nor dumbest guy in the room, nothing immediately jumped out at me. Perhaps there are those out there who would care to throw out a suggestion to get the discussion going?
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Bill Tex Landreth
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#2 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm

Gotta throw out William & Mary

Full disclosure, Will is a good friend
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#3 Post by mstockley » September 26th, 2018, 5:26 pm

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm
Gotta throw out William & Mary

Full disclosure, Will is a good friend
How old are the vines? Couldn't tell from the web site.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#4 Post by Paul Marshall » September 26th, 2018, 5:44 pm

Any project with Sam Kaplan

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#5 Post by PaulMills » September 26th, 2018, 5:48 pm

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm
Gotta throw out William & Mary

Full disclosure, Will is a good friend

I would be happy with that, we really enjoyed the 2014 and 2015 we have had and are looking froward to the 2016 and new proprietary red.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#6 Post by NickRut » September 26th, 2018, 6:38 pm

Looking forward to tasting with Will next week. Interested to see what it’s like
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#7 Post by larry schaffer » September 26th, 2018, 6:48 pm

Perhaps the next MACDONALD will be outside of Napa? Perhaps in Paso? Or the Sierra Foothills? Perhaps the Santa Cruz Mountains?

And nothing against Will whatsoever - very cool dude whom I've known for a long time. And I had a chance to try his wine at Falltacular earlier this year - fine juice indeed . . .

Cheers.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#8 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 26th, 2018, 6:51 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 6:48 pm
Perhaps the next MACDONALD will be outside of Napa? Perhaps in Paso? Or the Sierra Foothills? Perhaps the Santa Cruz Mountains?

And nothing against Will whatsoever - very cool dude whom I've known for a long time. And I had a chance to try his wine at Falltacular earlier this year - fine juice indeed . . .

Cheers.
Read the OP. Specifically asks about NAPA.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#9 Post by larry schaffer » September 26th, 2018, 6:54 pm

Ooops - nevermind . . .

Carry on, all :-)
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#10 Post by b. c@stner » September 26th, 2018, 7:06 pm

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm
Gotta throw out William & Mary

Full disclosure, Will is a good friend
Noticed this is Shifflett, is he still doing anything under his own label?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#11 Post by luc@sl@belle » September 26th, 2018, 7:36 pm

Macdonald will be hard to beat...

So much going for it between the supply (or lack there of), the site (oldest/most storied vines in Napa), and talent (world class in every way). Hard to find that type of magical combo and would imagine they hold court for some time especially because the wine is also so darn good.
Last edited by luc@sl@belle on September 26th, 2018, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#12 Post by blarmston » September 26th, 2018, 7:44 pm

Paul Marshall wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:44 pm
Any project with Sam Kaplan
Sam is doing great things, especially with Memento Mori. But he is already established, and MM is already well followed out there..

Not familiar with W&M so I will check that out. I have two slots open for my next trip up there in 3 weeks so hopefully I can stop in...
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#13 Post by Mike Evans » September 26th, 2018, 7:45 pm

Whatever it is, I just hope its fans don’t feel compelled to write the name in all caps. Maybe follow e.e. cummings or bell hooks for inspiration.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#14 Post by D. Mowe » September 26th, 2018, 7:59 pm

Hard to compare because Macdonald have thier own estate vineyard. However In terms of new labels from talented guys with good fruit sources there are 2 names -

Kinsman (sleeping lady fruit). Nigel is formerly of Araujo (now eisele) among others and consults for 5 or so clients. This is his own. Not sure if they released yet.

La Pelle - Maayan is rt hand to Melka and this is his own project. Just released first vintage last week.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#15 Post by J.Vizuete » September 26th, 2018, 8:46 pm

Appreciate the tip, Dustin and Tex

My mind runs a little like Larry’s - I think the next 5+ year wait list is going to be something that scratches the northern Rhône itch in that low alcohol, highly aromatic, lean, acid driven way - maybe a Pax, Arnot Roberts or Jolie Laide.

To stay on topic, I’ll throw out Dan Petroski’s new label, Ashes and Diamonds as one to follow
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#16 Post by D. Mowe » September 26th, 2018, 8:54 pm

J.Vizuete wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 8:46 pm

To stay on topic, I’ll throw out Dan Petroski’s new label, Ashes and Diamonds as one to follow
Dan is no longer doing A&D wines. Although am a huge fan of any wines Dan is involved in.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#17 Post by Anton D » September 26th, 2018, 10:18 pm

D. Mowe wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:59 pm
Hard to compare because Macdonald have thier own estate vineyard. However In terms of new labels from talented guys with good fruit sources there are 2 names -

Kinsman (sleeping lady fruit). Nigel is formerly of Araujo (now eisele) among others and consults for 5 or so clients. This is his own. Not sure if they released yet.

La Pelle - Maayan is rt hand to Melka and this is his own project. Just released first vintage last week.
You are so evil.

Joined Kinsman and bought some La Pelle to try.

[thankyou.gif]

This place is both awesome and terrible! [cheers.gif]
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#18 Post by Ledwards » September 27th, 2018, 3:35 am

Tynan Meleagris from the unique, old vine and small production perspective.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#19 Post by J.Vizuete » September 27th, 2018, 3:57 am

D. Mowe wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 8:54 pm
J.Vizuete wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 8:46 pm

To stay on topic, I’ll throw out Dan Petroski’s new label, Ashes and Diamonds as one to follow
Dan is no longer doing A&D wines. Although am a huge fan of any wines Dan is involved in.
Wow that was quick. I spoke with Dan not even a month ago but you’re right, the website now shows Steve Matthiason (which might not make me change my answer :)
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#20 Post by Steve Crawford » September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am

most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#21 Post by Craig G » September 27th, 2018, 5:34 am

Steve Crawford wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am
most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.
I think it’s even more complicated than that for MacDonald. I believe they don’t own it (at least yet) but they are buying grapes from their family. Isn’t that right?

If the intent of the OP is something like “what will be the next wine to have a resale value 2x-3x its list price, obviously it’s going to have to be an excellent wine with a way of catching interest, but you also have to understand the philosophy of the owners. MacDonald has gone from $150 for 2010s (according to the other thread) to $165 for 2015s, and I believe that restraint is largely because they understand the value of a stable and loyal relationship between the business and customer. When they talk about their longstanding relationship with Mondavi, it’s not just a story. I believe they really value that way of doing business. They could raise the price to $250 and likely sell out, but it would mean turning over a significant part of the customer base. I asked Alex about this last year and he said something similar to the above. Sure enough, the price did not change this year.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#22 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 27th, 2018, 6:12 am

Steve Crawford wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am
most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.
Not analogous, but Will's wife's family owns the vineyard.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#23 Post by T Fletcher » September 27th, 2018, 7:13 am

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 6:12 am
Steve Crawford wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am
most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.
Not analogous, but Will's wife's family owns the vineyard.
I think W&M is more analogous than anything else that's been posted here thus far. The vineyard has been owned by the family for multiple decades, some fruit is sold to other high-end producers for vineyard-specific wines, W&M is small production, and in my opinion, the wine could easily be sold for more than what Will is asking.

(I also consider Will a friend...but most anyone who has spent any amount of time with him will say the same thing)
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#24 Post by A.Gillette » September 27th, 2018, 7:49 am

D. Mowe wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:59 pm
Hard to compare because Macdonald have thier own estate vineyard.
Old Macdonald has a farm?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#25 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 27th, 2018, 8:15 am

D. Mowe wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:59 pm
Hard to compare because Macdonald have thier own estate vineyard. However In terms of new labels from talented guys with good fruit sources there are 2 names -

Kinsman (sleeping lady fruit). Nigel is formerly of Araujo (now eisele) among others and consults for 5 or so clients. This is his own. Not sure if they released yet.

La Pelle - Maayan is rt hand to Melka and this is his own project. Just released first vintage last week.
Signed up for both. Within 10 minutes Miguel reached out to me via email, so I pointed him to this thread. Hopefully he will join and post.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#26 Post by Steve Crawford » September 27th, 2018, 8:26 am

Bill Tex Landreth wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 6:12 am
Steve Crawford wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am
most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.
Not analogous, but Will's wife's family owns the vineyard.
this is why I said most. I was purposefully excluding W&M.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#27 Post by GregT » September 27th, 2018, 8:36 am

My mind runs a little like Larry’s - I think the next 5+ year wait list is going to be something that scratches the northern Rhône itch in that low alcohol, highly aromatic, lean, acid driven way - maybe a Pax, Arnot Roberts or Jolie Laide.
Not out of Napa.

Also, MacDonald is not a "cult" wine other than on this board. Probably better than some, but doesn't quite fit.

Not sure there's going to be another like SE, Schrader, Colgin, or Bryant b/c there's no more Bob Parker to anoint or Wall Street frenzy competing for limited wine to make it such. Those wines were big and ripe and relatively rare, so easy for traders to understand. There are more choices now and different status symbols. SQN was the last one anointed by Parker. These days you buy your own winery rather than the finished product.

There are unlikely to be more MacDonalds, because as mentioned, there aren't that many people whose families have owned Napa land for a few generations.

But the good news is that there will always be more wine, and with luck, more interesting wine!

The next cult Napa Cab for this board will be whatever project one of the currently popular Napa wine makers gets involved with. But I'd be interested in seeing what happens with some families that have property - e.g. Larner, W&M, etc.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#28 Post by Brandon R » September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am

Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#29 Post by D. Mowe » September 27th, 2018, 8:45 am

I took the post as “what’s new in Napa” that is small (like Macdonald) and of a very high quality and will sell out fast. Both I mention check those boxes. Both are very very good fruit sources and very talented winemakers who are excited/motivated to do thier own thing.

Talk to Nigel about what he is doing with kinsman-the passion along with his pedigree will make you a believer (you won’t be disappointed with either of these projects).
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#30 Post by Gray G » September 27th, 2018, 9:17 am

Craig G wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:34 am
Steve Crawford wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:26 am
most of those mentioned aren’t really a project analogous to macdonald- winemaker owns the estate.
I think it’s even more complicated than that for MacDonald. I believe they don’t own it (at least yet) but they are buying grapes from their family. Isn’t that right?

If the intent of the OP is something like “what will be the next wine to have a resale value 2x-3x its list price, obviously it’s going to have to be an excellent wine with a way of catching interest, but you also have to understand the philosophy of the owners. MacDonald has gone from $150 for 2010s (according to the other thread) to $165 for 2015s, and I believe that restraint is largely because they understand the value of a stable and loyal relationship between the business and customer. When they talk about their longstanding relationship with Mondavi, it’s not just a story. I believe they really value that way of doing business. They could raise the price to $250 and likely sell out, but it would mean turning over a significant part of the customer base. I asked Alex about this last year and he said something similar to the above. Sure enough, the price did not change this year.
true, yet as discussed by them, they also want to please more people than just those currently on their list whatever the price they set
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#31 Post by kevanmah » September 27th, 2018, 9:24 am

I'm a fan of what Ketan Mody has done so far with Beta, and looking forward to what he does with his land on Diamond Mountain for his Jasud Estate label in the coming years.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#32 Post by Gray G » September 27th, 2018, 9:28 am

Brandon R wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am
Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
haha
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#33 Post by Todd F r e n c h » September 27th, 2018, 9:29 am

Gray G wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 9:28 am
Brandon R wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am
Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
haha
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#34 Post by ykwon » September 27th, 2018, 9:41 am

Brandon R wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am
Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
Next time you’ll be in for six... + Proprietary Red.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#35 Post by Ian Dorin » September 27th, 2018, 9:49 am

kevanmah wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 9:24 am
I'm a fan of what Ketan Mody has done so far with Beta, and looking forward to what he does with his land on Diamond Mountain for his Jasud Estate label in the coming years.
Wasn't the DM vineyard planted in 2011?

I was think DiCostanzo is climbing that ladder, but he's buying fruit. Farella goes back to the early 80s, Rafael was planted in the mid-late 90s, and Montecillo was late 80s? (someone double check me).

I think the part about MacDonald owning the vineyard means a lot.

There's always Detert :)
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#36 Post by Alan Eden » September 27th, 2018, 10:06 am

GregT wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:36 am
My mind runs a little like Larry’s - I think the next 5+ year wait list is going to be something that scratches the northern Rhône itch in that low alcohol, highly aromatic, lean, acid driven way - maybe a Pax, Arnot Roberts or Jolie Laide.
Not out of Napa.

Also, MacDonald is not a "cult" wine other than on this board. Probably better than some, but doesn't quite fit.

Not sure there's going to be another like SE, Schrader, Colgin, or Bryant b/c there's no more Bob Parker to anoint or Wall Street frenzy competing for limited wine to make it such. Those wines were big and ripe and relatively rare, so easy for traders to understand. There are more choices now and different status symbols. SQN was the last one anointed by Parker. These days you buy your own winery rather than the finished product.

There are unlikely to be more MacDonalds, because as mentioned, there aren't that many people whose families have owned Napa land for a few generations.

But the good news is that there will always be more wine, and with luck, more interesting wine!

The next cult Napa Cab for this board will be whatever project one of the currently popular Napa wine makers gets involved with. But I'd be interested in seeing what happens with some families that have property - e.g. Larner, W&M, etc.
So Macdonald being in WSJ and selling at 3-4x release is not a "cult" wine, what would make it a cult wine ?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#37 Post by Joe B » September 27th, 2018, 10:25 am

Five years ago someone should have asked who is the next screaming eagle.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#38 Post by Doug Schulman » September 27th, 2018, 10:31 am

GregT wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:36 am
Also, MacDonald is not a "cult" wine other than on this board. Probably better than some, but doesn't quite fit.
Check the wine-searcher pro listings. I don't think that's only because of people on this board. I would call it a cult wine.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#39 Post by blarmston » September 27th, 2018, 11:31 am

MAC is for sure a cult wine. Its silly not to think it is- small supply, exponentially larger demand, almost universally revered by those who have tasted it, prices in secondary reflective of that, multi year wait list, etc.

Thanks for the tip on Kinsman. I signed up and am looking forward to their offer next year...
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#40 Post by spkaiser » September 27th, 2018, 1:35 pm

Mike Evans wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:45 pm
Whatever it is, I just hope its fans don’t feel compelled to write the name in all caps. Maybe follow e.e. cummings or bell hooks for inspiration.
m/ac
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#41 Post by Chris Seiber » September 27th, 2018, 1:42 pm

I think Burger King was the next McDonalds

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#42 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 27th, 2018, 1:57 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 1:42 pm
I think Burger King was the next McDonalds
FTW
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#43 Post by blarmston » September 27th, 2018, 2:13 pm

Shake Shack is the next McD, but SS is actually decent food...
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#44 Post by Robert Dentice » September 27th, 2018, 2:20 pm

Well coming from the first person to write about MacDonald on any wine board and to organize their first winemaker dinner this is very easy - Ketan Mody.

https://vinous.com/multimedia/a-convers ... y-aug-2015

The current release wines are from purchased fruit...just wait until the Diamond Mountain estate wines come online.

https://www.beta-wines.com/

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#45 Post by Anton D » September 27th, 2018, 2:47 pm

Brandon R wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am
Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
champagne.gif

I think W & M is a good call.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#46 Post by Bud Carey » September 27th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Agreed.
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Roy Piper
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#47 Post by Roy Piper » September 27th, 2018, 4:53 pm

To be the next MacDonald, you will need fruit as good as MacDonald. That presents a problem.
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David Baum
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#48 Post by David Baum » September 27th, 2018, 5:01 pm

I know one with potential. Met a gal in a tasting room whose family owns a vineyard several years ago. They all have regular jobs but make a little wine they sell direct to locals and a few others but very off the radar. The vast majority of their grapes are sold to their neighbor that makes one of the iconic cult type wines that has sold above $200 in Napa for years. If they ever put their grapes in the hands of a great winemaker who knows what they could produce. Next visit up Im gonna try to set up a tasting with them to check out their wines. Dont bother asking who it is for now:)

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#49 Post by AlexS » September 27th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:53 pm
To be the next MacDonald, you will need fruit as good as MacDonald. That presents a problem.
This.

That said, I'll add in another vote for W&M, first bottle of the 2014 I tried a couple months ago blew me away. One more to add in as well:

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#50 Post by luc@sl@belle » September 27th, 2018, 5:36 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:53 pm
To be the next MacDonald, you will need fruit as good as MacDonald. That presents a problem.
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