Disappointing Huet

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Gary Schulte
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Disappointing Huet

#1 Post by Gary Schulte » September 23rd, 2018, 5:02 pm

A couple of nights back I opened a 2010 Huet Clos du Bourg sec. Purchased several at release and early openings years back were spot on delicious. After opening and pouring it was clearly more yellow than it should be. Had slight sherry notes on the nose and in the mouth it was showing oxidation. Spouse was not happy with it so I opened another white wine. Looks like we will be drinking our other Huets sooner rather than later.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#2 Post by Brian Gilp » September 23rd, 2018, 5:38 pm

Not happy to read this. I haven’t touched my 2010s yet.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#3 Post by Markus S » September 23rd, 2018, 6:26 pm

Gary Schulte wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 5:02 pm
A couple of nights back I opened a 2010 Huet Clos du Bourg sec. Purchased several at release and early openings years back were spot on delicious. After opening and pouring it was clearly more yellow than it should be. Had slight sherry notes on the nose and in the mouth it was showing oxidation. Spouse was not happy with it so I opened another white wine. Looks like we will be drinking our other Huets sooner rather than later.
I think the longevity of these dryer ones are overrated. Witness 2002.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#4 Post by Jayson Cohen » September 23rd, 2018, 6:37 pm

Markus S wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 6:26 pm
Gary Schulte wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 5:02 pm
A couple of nights back I opened a 2010 Huet Clos du Bourg sec. Purchased several at release and early openings years back were spot on delicious. After opening and pouring it was clearly more yellow than it should be. Had slight sherry notes on the nose and in the mouth it was showing oxidation. Spouse was not happy with it so I opened another white wine. Looks like we will be drinking our other Huets sooner rather than later.
I think the longevity of these dryer ones are overrated. Witness 2002.
And you are basing this on the 2002s, the only vintage known to have a serious premox problem?

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#5 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » September 23rd, 2018, 6:48 pm

I opened a 2005 Clos de Bourg Sec a couple of weeks ago, and it was delicious!

2002 is not a basis for judgement.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#6 Post by Warren Taranow » September 23rd, 2018, 7:50 pm

Here's a thread about this wine from earlier this year. I haven't had an oxidized 2010 Huet Sec yet, and I've gone through several cases. There are a few notes suggesting oxidized bottles amongst the majority positive TN's. Don't sell them short; most are still outstanding, with a long life ahead.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#7 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » September 23rd, 2018, 8:05 pm

Trolling Brad Kane, trolling Brad Kane?

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#8 Post by Jim Cowan » September 23rd, 2018, 8:25 pm

Gary,
It’s been awhile since I bought much sec but . . .
I wish to quote an old friend: “you can always dump it but why don’t you wait and see what happens?”
Especially with Huet; my suggestion - decant for 24 hours and see if it still shows oxidized.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#9 Post by Andrew Christiansen » September 23rd, 2018, 8:37 pm

Gone through a case+, with about 14-16 left, no issues, and loved every one. Every time I drink one there is one left Huet by Noel Pinguet left in the world...

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#10 Post by Chris Seiber » September 23rd, 2018, 9:24 pm

I think I’ve had two or three 2010 Huet which showed early premox.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104391&p=1540220

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#11 Post by Gary Schulte » September 24th, 2018, 4:50 am

Jim - I did indeed try it the following day and the oxidation progressed to where on day 3 it was undrinkable.

Will try the 2010 Le Mont and Haut Lieu next to see where they are at. Clos du Bourg has always been my favorite Huet for depth of complexity. That being the case some years the RS is slightly above my liking.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#12 Post by Brad Kane » September 24th, 2018, 5:04 am

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 8:05 pm
Trolling Brad Kane, trolling Brad Kane?
What Jayson said. The '02s are outliers.

I'll always lean towards storage/transportation issues first until I see repeated problem notes from a lot of geographic areas.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#13 Post by Michae1 P0wers » September 24th, 2018, 5:11 am

Andrew Christiansen wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 8:37 pm
Gone through a case+, with about 14-16 left, no issues, and loved every one. Every time I drink one there is one left Huet by Noel Pinguet left in the world...
Slight thread drift, but whatever happened to him? Does he have another project?

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#14 Post by Frank Murray III » July 14th, 2019, 1:51 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 6:48 pm
I opened a 2005 Clos de Bourg Sec a couple of weeks ago, and it was delicious!

2002 is not a basis for judgement.
Buek, I decided I would play it conservative and open my last bottle of 05 Sec Bourg. ####! Whatever is going on with this wine and some other bottles of it that people have had, this bottle right now that I am sipping from is not suffering from any of those criticisms. What an electric bottle of Huet Sec.....lovely. I have Brig coming over later and I am going to pour it for him blind and see if he can guess the vintage/age.
  • 2005 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (7/14/2019)
    Damn it. Between my last note from 2017, when I thought the bottle was probably hitting the apex onto the downhill side, and along with the last 4 TNs on this wine from other users, I thought I better get this opened. It's perfect. Paid $25 for this back in 2012 from Envoyer. Absolutely zero premox or advanced markers of any kind in my bottle today. Opened about 15 mins ago, with the cork just falling apart into a mess of pieces. I got the inner 1/2 out cleanly, then poured the wine. Such a beautiful melange of peach, honey, citrus pith and a big plast of acidity in the finish. Damn it. This could fool me for a wine that is less than 5 years old, and in comparison to a 2015 Chidaine Choisilles I opened, it has the livelihood of that wine which is a decade younger. This is a cracking great bottle of Huet Bourg that drinks like it is connected to an electrical current. Damn it, what an awesome bottle of wine.
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2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#15 Post by Frank Murray III » July 14th, 2019, 1:51 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 6:48 pm
I opened a 2005 Clos de Bourg Sec a couple of weeks ago, and it was delicious!

2002 is not a basis for judgement.
Buek, I decided I would play it conservative and open my last bottle of 05 Sec Bourg. ####! Whatever is going on with this wine and some other bottles of it that people have had, this bottle right now that I am sipping from is not suffering from any of those criticisms. What an electric bottle of Huet Sec.....lovely. I have Brig coming over later and I am going to pour it for him blind and see if he can guess the vintage/age.
  • 2005 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (7/14/2019)
    Damn it. Between my last note from 2017, when I thought the bottle was probably hitting the apex onto the downhill side, and along with the last 4 TNs on this wine from other users, I thought I better get this opened. It's perfect. Paid $25 for this back in 2012 from Envoyer. Absolutely zero premox or advanced markers of any kind in my bottle today. Opened about 15 mins ago, with the cork just falling apart into a mess of pieces. I got the inner 1/2 out cleanly, then poured the wine. Such a beautiful melange of peach, honey, citrus pith and a big plast of acidity in the finish. Damn it. This could fool me for a wine that is less than 5 years old, and in comparison to a 2015 Chidaine Choisilles I recently opened, it has the livelihood of that wine which is a decade younger. This is a cracking great bottle of Huet Bourg that drinks like it is connected to an electrical current. Damn it, what an awesome bottle of wine.
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My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2017 Kutch Pinot Noir SC PN
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut
2017 Carlisle Zin Mancini Ranch RRV

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

Kindness matters.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#16 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 14th, 2019, 3:05 pm

With the 2002 Huets, you also have to wonder whether they might have been sitting in a non-climate-controlled warehouse during the Summer of 2003.

The European distribution channel simply wasn't prepared for 2003.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#17 Post by Brad Kane » July 14th, 2019, 3:24 pm

Nathan Smyth wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 3:05 pm
With the 2002 Huets, you also have to wonder whether they might have been sitting in a non-climate-controlled warehouse during the Summer of 2003.

The European distribution channel simply wasn't prepared for 2003.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#18 Post by Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡ » July 14th, 2019, 3:28 pm

Haven’t had any issues with 2010s...Still got a few 06/07 secs that are really lovely.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#19 Post by Paul McCourt » July 14th, 2019, 3:56 pm

I’ve had about half a case of 10’s this year and no prob
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#20 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 14th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 3:24 pm
Nathan Smyth wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 3:05 pm
With the 2002 Huets, you also have to wonder whether they might have been sitting in a non-climate-controlled warehouse during the Summer of 2003.

The European distribution channel simply wasn't prepared for 2003.
Have you ever been to their cellar? That's not a worry.
For most white wines in the summer [and early autumn] of 2003, it could have been anywhere in the distribution channel.

Perhaps Huet holds onto their wines a little longer than do others [before finally releasing the wines to the channel], but my impression has always been that the overwhelming majority of white wines are bottled & packaged & pallet-ed & container-ed up for transport by the summer after the harvest.

For a while now, I've been wondering if that's why so many of the Theise/Skurnik 2002 German Rieslings were torched - I can easily imagine those wines sitting in a pallet within a metal shipping container within a non-climate-controlled metal warehouse [or out on a dock, in the direct sunlight], during the summer of 2003, waiting until it was their turn to be loaded into a cargo ship, and being fried for weeks on end.

BTW, this scenario would apply equally well to any wine [red or white] which was moved into the [non-climate-controlled] channel in the summer [or early autumn] of 2003.

[For the reds, it could have been older vintages which might have been at risk for frying in the summer of 2003, such as 1999/2000 for Bordeaux, or 1997/98 for Barolo, although perhaps those wines were considered sufficiently valuable for their entire channels to have been climate-controlled.]

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#21 Post by John Morris » July 14th, 2019, 6:03 pm

For the record, an '02 Haut-Lieu sec that I served to friends Thursday was everything it should have been -- round, oily, very honeyed, with nice acid structure and no oxidation whatsoever. 91.7++ for me.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#22 Post by brigcampbell » July 14th, 2019, 8:14 pm

Here's Frank's bottle. Really great wine tonight and same experience two years ago with the same vintage.
  • 2005 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (7/14/2019)
    Blind: guessed Chenin with 10-15 years of age. FMIII handed this to me "what do you think?" love it.

    Great acidity with tart yellow fruit and medium plus weight followed by a strong acid finish. Wife said "taste fancy" and I'll go with that.
Posted from CellarTracker
Frank Murray III wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 1:51 pm
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
September 23rd, 2018, 6:48 pm
I opened a 2005 Clos de Bourg Sec a couple of weeks ago, and it was delicious!

2002 is not a basis for judgement.
Buek, I decided I would play it conservative and open my last bottle of 05 Sec Bourg. ####! Whatever is going on with this wine and some other bottles of it that people have had, this bottle right now that I am sipping from is not suffering from any of those criticisms. What an electric bottle of Huet Sec.....lovely. I have Brig coming over later and I am going to pour it for him blind and see if he can guess the vintage/age.
  • 2005 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Clos du Bourg - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (7/14/2019)
    Damn it. Between my last note from 2017, when I thought the bottle was probably hitting the apex onto the downhill side, and along with the last 4 TNs on this wine from other users, I thought I better get this opened. It's perfect. Paid $25 for this back in 2012 from Envoyer. Absolutely zero premox or advanced markers of any kind in my bottle today. Opened about 15 mins ago, with the cork just falling apart into a mess of pieces. I got the inner 1/2 out cleanly, then poured the wine. Such a beautiful melange of peach, honey, citrus pith and a big plast of acidity in the finish. Damn it. This could fool me for a wine that is less than 5 years old, and in comparison to a 2015 Chidaine Choisilles I recently opened, it has the livelihood of that wine which is a decade younger. This is a cracking great bottle of Huet Bourg that drinks like it is connected to an electrical current. Damn it, what an awesome bottle of wine.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#23 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 14th, 2019, 8:27 pm

I haven’t touched my 2005s. I was thinking about waiting at least a decade more, but Brad maybe I should pull a CDB Sec from the cellar to eat with your famous chicken.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#24 Post by Ian S » July 14th, 2019, 8:32 pm

More Huet has shit the bed?
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#25 Post by Brad Kane » July 14th, 2019, 8:54 pm

Ian S wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:32 pm
More Huet has shit the bed?
See, this is what happens when people cry wolf with premox.

I've mentioned before that from what I've heard, the issue with the '02s was that the domaine reduced the amount sulfur that they normally used that year. The problems were numerous and were reported globally. Folks on this board reporting off bottles here and there on various other vintages since '02, are almost assuredly due to storage/transport issues in the distribution/sales chain, plain old poor vintage conditions and folks relatively new to drinking Chenin not knowing that Loire Chenin sometimes shows oxidative characteristics on a normal good day.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#26 Post by Brad Kane » July 14th, 2019, 8:58 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:27 pm
I haven’t touched my 2005s. I was thinking about waiting at least a decade more, but Brad maybe I should pull a CDB Sec from the cellar to eat with your famous chicken.
Always happy to make my famous chicken and drink Huet with you and comrade Sasha. Of course, you know '05 wasn't my favorite vintage for their drier wines given the riper grapes and lower acidity...
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#27 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 14th, 2019, 9:02 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:58 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 8:27 pm
I haven’t touched my 2005s. I was thinking about waiting at least a decade more, but Brad maybe I should pull a CDB Sec from the cellar to eat with your famous chicken.
Always happy to make my famous chicken and drink Huet with you and comrade Sasha. Of course, you know '05 wasn't my favorite vintage for their drier wines given the riper grapes and lower acidity...
Me either. 😀

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#28 Post by Humberto Dorta » July 15th, 2019, 9:08 am

Ive had 3 or 4 different oxidized huets from other than 2002 years. It happens.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#29 Post by Mike Grammer » July 15th, 2019, 9:14 am

But you've also had many great Huets---those seem to be the ones we open together. Maybe you just need your Canadian and North Carolinian good luck charms? :)

A bit off-topic, but a 2009 Le Mont Moelleux opened last week was fledgling but wondrous.

Sorry you had the unhappy experience Gary--hopefully doesn't replicate with your other bottles.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#30 Post by Brad Kane » July 15th, 2019, 9:16 am

Humberto Dorta wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:08 am
Ive had 3 or 4 different oxidized huets from other than 2002 years. It happens.
Yes, but there's a big difference between oxidized wine and premox.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#31 Post by Humberto Dorta » July 15th, 2019, 9:19 am

Sure but one was an 05 and at least two other 1eres from the 90s and in each case I had other bottles that were just fine, so Id call all of them premoxed.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#32 Post by Brad Kane » July 15th, 2019, 9:30 am

Humberto Dorta wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:19 am
Sure but one was an 05 and at least two other 1eres from the 90s and in each case I had other bottles that were just fine, so Id call all of them premoxed.
You'd be incorrect in calling them that and that's part of the problem with folks just calling out premox whenever they have an oxidized bottle of wine. Premox is a specific condition where the origin of the fault is based at the winery and affects a large percentage of production of a specific bottling/vintage.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#33 Post by Michael Lewis » July 15th, 2019, 10:09 am

Drank a 1982 Le Haut Lieu Sec last week. What a fantastic wine (despite that not being an especially noteworthy vintage for Vouvray). Starting to get close to peak, but not quite there yet to my taste. 1945 Moelleux is just about ready if you have any of that, though. Does benefit from a couple of hours in a decanter to open up.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#34 Post by Robert Love » July 15th, 2019, 10:39 am

Had a 1945 Moelleux Le Haut-Lieu a month back that didn’t have a whiff of oxidation — not a drop, despite being completely browned through. Was absolutely gorgeous. They don’t make ‘em like they used to!

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#35 Post by Ian S » July 15th, 2019, 10:52 am

Robert Love wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 10:39 am
They don’t make ‘em like they used to!
I think people may need to be more careful picking the vintages they want to cellar. 1945 was an exceptional year. Not all vintages are phenomenal for any place or producer, let alone the Loire. If you were to ask me my 3 favorite vintages of Huet this century, the sweet list (Moelleux & Premiere Trie: 2002, 2009, 2005) would be completely different from the dry list (Sec & Demi-Sec: 2008, 2010, 2015).
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#36 Post by Mike Evans » July 15th, 2019, 11:12 am

A recent 1957 Clos de Bourg Demi-Sec was incredibly fresh and much lighter in color than a 1997 Champalou Moelleuse opened with it. Tasted blind, I don’t know if I would have gotten within 40 years of the vintage on the Huet.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#37 Post by Brad Kane » July 15th, 2019, 11:30 am

That '57 always shows nicely and lightly colored. Of course, they were using a lot more sulfur then.

Additionally, and this ties in with the whole premox debate, folks should bear in mind that they were pressing the grapes harder in the old days, so there is more phenolic strength to the wines which may offer more protection to the wine. As I've said on other Huet threads, this change and along with modern winemaking practices, additional ripeness due to global warming and the generally reduced levels of sulfur being used, may be changing the aging curve not only for Huet, but for a lot of our favorite wines. The jury is still out. However, when it comes to Chenin, I'd argue aging is relative and on a much longer timescale.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#38 Post by Barry L i p t o n » July 15th, 2019, 11:42 am

2007 Haut Lieu has last week was brilliant

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#39 Post by Humberto Dorta » July 15th, 2019, 12:59 pm

Well premox is short for premature oxidation. The name does not indicate a cause. Afaik, no true cause has been identified. If I see a clearly faulty cork, I may not call it premox, however with a winery that has clearly suffered from premox as you refer to it, and a seemingly intact cork, with bottles from the same lot being sound, I will continue to call it premox. Same thing for Fevre. It is, in fact, premature oxidation.
Brad Kane wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:30 am
Humberto Dorta wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:19 am
Sure but one was an 05 and at least two other 1eres from the 90s and in each case I had other bottles that were just fine, so Id call all of them premoxed.
You'd be incorrect in calling them that and that's part of the problem with folks just calling out premox whenever they have an oxidized bottle of wine. Premox is a specific condition where the origin of the fault is based at the winery and affects a large percentage of production of a specific bottling/vintage.
Last edited by Humberto Dorta on July 15th, 2019, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#40 Post by Mike Grammer » July 15th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Some rather interesting points brought up here. First, I've had the pleasure and honour of drinking with both of you and respect both your palates tremendously.

I had not been aware of that, what I'll call "technical", meaning to premox, Brad, so thanks. That said, I myself use the term in the way that Berto has. I'm keenly aware of the difference between oxidative wines---which I often quite like---and wines that are oxidized before their normal and usual time, which I use the term "premox" for. I guess the question with Huets and Chenin in general is, what *is* that timeline? There, Brad, I'd defer to your far greater experience with 'em....with an additional question----is there variation for you across the different cuvees? (e.g. does Clos du Bourg get oxidative faster than Le Mont or Le Haut Lieu, e.g.?)

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Brad Kane
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#41 Post by Brad Kane » July 15th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Humberto Dorta wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 12:59 pm
Well premix is short for premature oxidation. The name does not indicate a cause. Afaik, no true cause has been identified. If I see a clearly faulty cork, I may not call it premox, however with a winery that has clearly suffered from premox as you refer to it, and a seemingly intact cork, with bottles from the same lot being sound, I will continue to call it premox. Same thing for Fevre. It is, in fact, premature oxidation.
Brad Kane wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:30 am
Humberto Dorta wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:19 am
Sure but one was an 05 and at least two other 1eres from the 90s and in each case I had other bottles that were just fine, so Id call all of them premoxed.
You'd be incorrect in calling them that and that's part of the problem with folks just calling out premox whenever they have an oxidized bottle of wine. Premox is a specific condition where the origin of the fault is based at the winery and affects a large percentage of production of a specific bottling/vintage.
The problems at Fevre, other Burgundy producers, Trimbach and '02 Huet all stem from issues during the winemaking/bottling process at the winery and it affects a significant part o the production. That's why it's premox, at least that's how it's really come to mean, certainly within the trade, even if not an actual dictionary definition. As you point out, usually the cause is a mystery, but it is an issue at the winery. Additionally, in the case of many of the Burgs affected, as well as with Trimbach and the '02 Huet, the premox seems to show up like clockwork about 7-10 years after vintage. It's been pretty specific.

Heat along the distribution chain and/or cellar conditions is responsible for most of the oxidized wine out there and it strikes haphazardly and doesn't affect only specific vintages throughout the global distribution for that specific wine, unless perhaps the rare occurrence where a tiny production wine happens to all be shipping out to one market and there happens to be heat issues either at the dock, or in transit, that impacts the entire shipment.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#42 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 15th, 2019, 1:52 pm

I think Brad is correct. Premox is our term for a systemic problem whose cause is still crazily unknown. Having a random oxidized bottle that isn’t what it should be because it cooked or that cork was randomly faulty or all the stuff that caused oxidation before we had the systemic problem, and still do, is not premox. And Chenin goes through phases in which it appears oxidized but is not. Always has.

That is why I have not seen premox in Huet except 2002. It could be time will reveal it. But the failure rate on certain Huet 2002s is extraordinary (although some random good results lately), just like the cork rate on 89s is very high (unfortunately).

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#43 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » July 15th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Gary Schulte wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 4:50 am
Jim - I did indeed try it the following day and the oxidation progressed to where on day 3 it was undrinkable.

Will try the 2010 Le Mont and Haut Lieu next to see where they are at. Clos du Bourg has always been my favorite Huet for depth of complexity. That being the case some years the RS is slightly above my liking.
Clos du Bourg is also my favorite. I bought a case each of the 2010 CdB and Le Mont. Early bottles were great, but they started fading around 2015(not bad but more Jura-esque than I want from Chenin Blanc). A year ago I went through the last 5btls of each and all were definitely tired(nicest way I can put it). Maybe my cases, bought on arrival from a very good local distributor, and never on a store shelf, had some issue in transport?

I am a believer that wines can freshen up with air, but I didn’t find that to be the case. I’m jealous of those posting that their experience are still good, as these have always been some of my favorite wines.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#44 Post by Doug Schulman » July 16th, 2019, 12:48 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 1:52 pm
I think Brad is correct. Premox is our term for a systemic problem whose cause is still crazily unknown. Having a random oxidized bottle that isn’t what it should be because it cooked or that cork was randomly faulty or all the stuff that caused oxidation before we had the systemic problem, and still do, is not premox. And Chenin goes through phases in which it appears oxidized but is not. Always has.
I agree. There has always been some incidence of sporadic oxidation in all wines as they get older. I think this is usually due to cork failure, which can probably happen even if the cork looks fine. Of course, there could be other causes. A bad bottle here and there does not equal premox as we use the term. It helps to all use the term to mean the same thing (as most of us do at this point) to avoid alarmism and distraction from whatever the systemic problem is.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#45 Post by Frank Murray III » August 3rd, 2019, 9:31 am

2 more TNs just hit CT this week, by tasters who are not rookies at this stuff. Andreaskoeberl and christyler, who combined have about 3,000 TNs in the database. Both made comments about the 2010 Huet Sec Cdb being oxidized. Whatever term we want to attribute to the wine in terms of the state it is in, the point is that others are finding more issues with Huet. The vintage is not even a decade old.
My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2017 Kutch Pinot Noir SC PN
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut
2017 Carlisle Zin Mancini Ranch RRV

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#46 Post by Brad Kane » August 3rd, 2019, 10:22 am

Unless you are getting a lot of people, globally, reporting repeated and multiple issues, it's not premox. It's simply oxidized. Ten people reporting an off bottle or two with plenty of other good notes in between, does not a premox problem, make.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#47 Post by Frank Murray III » August 3rd, 2019, 10:47 am

Brad, this is not looking like a few off bottles of many. The ratio within reported notes is concerning. i am opening my final 10 CdB today, it is chilling now.
My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2017 Kutch Pinot Noir SC PN
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut
2017 Carlisle Zin Mancini Ranch RRV

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

Kindness matters.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#48 Post by Brad Kane » August 3rd, 2019, 11:41 am

Are people seeing it in the petillant and all the the different vineyard bottlings of the secs and demi-secs? Have folks been experiencing 70% or more oxidized rates? Have you personally experienced off bottles sourced from a number of different markets around the country, or sourced internationally? That's what was going on with the '02s.
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Re: Disappointing Huet

#49 Post by Frank Murray III » August 3rd, 2019, 11:56 am

Brad, I recognize your expertise in this space, and it's why I respect your view on this topic. The power of the forum here is the presence of people who are strong/well-versed in certain spaces, for which you are for Chenin.

I will answer no to your questions, as mine were all sourced from either Wine Exchange or Envoyer.

My post is just to raise some other POVs from people who have had bottles open recently. As for my bottle, I just opened it to see if it is sound for the event later. It is. I will bring back a TN tomorrow.
My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2017 Kutch Pinot Noir SC PN
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut
2017 Carlisle Zin Mancini Ranch RRV

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

Kindness matters.

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Re: Disappointing Huet

#50 Post by Rich Brown » August 3rd, 2019, 11:36 pm

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the bottle you're popping tonight Frank, as 2010 is my sons birth year and I've snagged a solid amount of Huet to age for the long haul. As a point of reference (per Brad's comments), I've consumed eight (8) 2010 pettilants over the past year and have not experienced a single oxidized bottle. Here's to hoping that I'm not just super lucky.

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