Your favorite Boudot

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine

Your two favorite Boudot (ex-Leroy, etc.)

Camille Giroud
0
No votes
Georges Noellat
10
14%
Gerard Mugneret
11
15%
Grivot
14
19%
Hospices de Nuits
1
1%
Jean Tardy
3
4%
Jerome Chezeaux
4
6%
JJ Confuron
3
4%
Louis Jadot (Domaine Gagey)
6
8%
Méo-Camuzet
15
21%
Michel Noellat
2
3%
Mongeard-Mugneret
3
4%
 
Total votes: 72

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Sh@n A
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Your favorite Boudot

#1 Post by Sh@n A » September 12th, 2018, 9:26 pm

I would like to put together a mini vertical/horizontal of Les Boudots to sample and get smarter on. Accordingly, am keen for folk's recommendations for Boudots < ~$250 per bottle, and would appreciate a brief note for why you prefer that producer over others. I set a poll as well, that lets folks "pick 2" for the poll instead of "pick 1", thinking this might produce a better data set. Look forward to folks's thoughts!

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#2 Post by Robert Panzer » September 13th, 2018, 5:47 am

Hands down, Georges Noëllat, followed by Michel Noëllat....
Disclaimer, I import both.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#3 Post by Sh@n A » September 13th, 2018, 9:17 am

Why Grivot or Meo? Producer style or something else?

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#4 Post by Gerhard P. » September 13th, 2018, 1:13 pm

I could tell better next year as I´m planning a Boudots against Malconsorts-tasting next spring ...
Sh@n A wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 9:17 am
Why Grivot or Meo? Producer style or something else?
Two producers who print the strongest personal signature on their wines ...
hmm ... [scratch.gif]
(... not my favorites !)
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#5 Post by Sh@n A » September 13th, 2018, 1:34 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 1:13 pm

Two producers who print the strongest personal signature on their wines ...
hmm ... [scratch.gif]
(... not my favorites !)
How would you characterize the difference in styles with them versus the others? Eg jadot
Last edited by Sh@n A on September 13th, 2018, 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#6 Post by Marcus Dean » September 13th, 2018, 1:54 pm

I voted for Grivot and Jadot because they are the only 2 I have tried

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#7 Post by Kent Comley » September 13th, 2018, 4:39 pm

I hosted a dinner a number of years ago with three or four producers Boudots from 1999 vintage. The surprising winner on the night was the Tardy. IIRC two other producers were Confuron and Meo.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#8 Post by john stimson » September 13th, 2018, 8:31 pm

The last time we did a horizontal of Boudots (all from the 93 vintage in 2011), the Georges Noellat and the Leroy won. The Tardy and the Jadot were also very good. Several other wines were marked by too much oak or too much producer rather than vineyard character, as Robert has noted.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#9 Post by Gerhard P. » September 14th, 2018, 2:43 am

Sh@n A wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 1:34 pm
Gerhard P. wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 1:13 pm

Two producers who print the strongest personal signature on their wines ...
hmm ... [scratch.gif]
(... not my favorites !)
How would you characterize the difference in styles with them versus the others? Eg jadot
Grivot usually shows a deep dark-red colour with an aromatic component of sweet-sour overripe cherries and plums and a certain type of oak-toast aside (and has a catastrophic TCA-rate in the mid-late 90ies, at least here). The texture is a bit „narrow“, not expansive and lush (hint of rum pot).

Meo-Camuzet: usually very dark-red with black reflexes, hints of soot (reminding me a bit on La MissionHB), a bit lead pencil and quite heavy dark oak toast. The tannins are often a bit dry and astringent, lacking sweetness. Nevertheless very concentrated and long.

That doesn´t mean that both producers won´t mature into fine wines, but I´ve often recognized especially Grivot in blind tastings ...

Jadot (Nuits) has also a very dark colour, but more lead pencil, no soot and seems to be a bit purer with good minerality, more traditional in texture, often also with hints of stems.

Just my 0.02
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#10 Post by PCLIN » September 14th, 2018, 3:45 am

john stimson wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 8:31 pm
The last time we did a horizontal of Boudots (all from the 93 vintage in 2011), the Georges Noellat and the Leroy won. The Tardy and the Jadot were also very good. Several other wines were marked by too much oak or too much producer rather than vineyard character, as Robert has noted.
I am slowly consuming a 6x of ‘93 Tardy Boudots, certainly better than expected.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#11 Post by Don Cornwell » September 14th, 2018, 7:26 am

Georges Noellat. I'm not a big fan of Nuits St. Georges and strongly prefer the NSG vineyards adjacent to Vosne Romanee. The Georges Noellat Boudots comes from 80 year old vines. The 2015 Georges Noellat NSG Boudot was just stunning -- a very dense wine with a lot Vosne Romanee character (the asian spice and plum aromas made me think Vosne Romanee, not Nuits.) The 2015 Grande Echezeaux was really spectacular too. Unfortunately my allocation was cut from 6 bottles to 2 bottles in 2015.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#12 Post by Sh@n A » September 14th, 2018, 6:37 pm

I ended up busting my plan for an organized tasting and picked up a 2012 Grivot locally. Below is my tasting note... and take it with a grain of salt newhere I liked the wine, but I didn't come away here thinking I should be loading up on Grivot... was too sweet (which I guess is the oak) to rave about / pick up a case without trying other producers. Same store had a Jadot... will try to go back tomorrow and find time to investigate....

TN: 2012 Grivot Boudot
aroma of darkly sweet rose, mixed with vegetables/earth – nice!
medium to full body (more full), won't say its creamy but texture is silky
palette of brooding, ripe strawberry (black strawberries!), subtle rose, and some herbaceous vegetable, a little earth – nice!
I perceived more vanilla/sweetness over time.. even a tinge of putrid sweetness – Not nice!
Moderate and dusty tannin
good acidity provides some nice balance
quite the long finish - nice!
A bit sweet on the start, a bit vegetable/earth (not in a bad way), and finished on a sweet note with those dusty tannins - Not nice!
quite smooth -- no heat here at all
no regrets drinking this one earlier, and I'm not sure I'm missing something material by having drunk it 3-4 years ahead of plan

92-93 (which is my personal scale of enjoyment/not a rigorous quantitative undertaking). Despite lacking heat, the putrid sweet sensation ultimately was too dominant on this one for me to really embrace the wine.

P.S. I posted about Economou before... this wine reminded me of Economou 2004 Sitia from Crete (weird I know...). The Grivot had more oak/less heat/longer finish and the Sitia more minerality/more freshness. But the Economou is half the price... I'm not sure which wine I prefer (I am sensitive to heat/prefer a longer finish... but the Economou style better resonates)... unequivocally I think the Economou is the better value. If the Economou had less heat/equivalent finish, I would prefer that by far...
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#13 Post by Don Cornwell » September 14th, 2018, 7:09 pm

I'm actually surprised that the Grivot has gotten the number of votes that it has -- except for the fact that it is more widely available. I used to cellar a number of Grivot wines (Richebourg, Echezeaux, Clos Vougeot and sometimes VR Beaumonts, but never Boudots. I was never particularly impressed, but perhaps they've gotten better lately. 2012 is also a vintage that a lot of people think is excessively ripe. You may want to try a Georges Noellat (very expensive) or Meo-Camuzet or Gerard Mugneret from a more balanced year like 2010.

Also, Benjamin Leroux started producing a NSG Boudots in 2015, and Lucien LeMoine also produces an NSG Boudots. Both would be worth a try, especially from the 2015 vintage. The problem with the Georges Noellat wines is that they have gone from being reasonable to insanely expensive way too fast.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#14 Post by Sh@n A » September 14th, 2018, 8:08 pm

Locally, I have availability of Georges Noellat 2013, Jadot 2011/12, G-M 2011, Meo 2014 (and can ship a 2006 Meo). Which would you suggest out of these? I'm tempted to scrap the Georges Noellat outright given that aforementioned price inflation.... 2015 runs locally $300 (I see on CT folks paid $150)... I suspect $300 is indeed insane for that bottle.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#15 Post by Don Cornwell » September 14th, 2018, 8:44 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 8:08 pm
Locally, I have availability of Georges Noellat 2013, Jadot 2011/12, G-M 2011, Meo 2014 (and can ship a 2006 Meo). Which would you suggest out of these? I'm tempted to scrap the Georges Noellat outright given that aforementioned price inflation.... 2015 runs locally $300 (I see on CT folks paid $150)... I suspect $300 is indeed insane for that bottle.
The Meo 2014 will be a bit more open than the 2013 Georges Noellat, but those are the two I would try to see the real potential of what the vineyard can deliver. Yes, either will be very young to try. I was not a fan of the 2006 vintage for the most part, otherwise I would suggest that one.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#16 Post by Tom Reddick » September 14th, 2018, 9:43 pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 7:09 pm
I'm actually surprised that the Grivot has gotten the number of votes that it has -- except for the fact that it is more widely available. I used to cellar a number of Grivot wines (Richebourg, Echezeaux, Clos Vougeot and sometimes VR Beaumonts, but never Boudots. I was never particularly impressed, but perhaps they've gotten better lately. 2012 is also a vintage that a lot of people think is excessively ripe. You may want to try a Georges Noellat (very expensive) or Meo-Camuzet or Gerard Mugneret from a more balanced year like 2010.
During the 2000s, I bought and tasted Grivot across the board and my cellaring pattern was similar to yours except that Beaumonts was always on the must-have list. I did cellar Boudots occasionally, but I generally found the wine a bit too hard and angular- even given that we are talking about a NSG versus a Vosne wine.

In the late 2000s when I started sampling a lot of the 90s wines I had been cellaring- notably Roumier and Rousseau- my interest in Grivot declined because in retrospect, while the Grivot wines were nicely muscled, they just did not seem like they were going to develop those earthy forest floor, floral and mineral tones of other really top producers. Having had some 80s and 90s vintages, I suspect that some of the less attractive aspects of the heavy Accad influence has never fully departed from this Domaine. By that I mean that the imbalances of the 80s and early 90s are gone, but yet there still seems to be a certain sacrifice of subtlety in the interests of getting more extract.

Add in what happened to the pricing (Grivot was one of the first to go really nuts with price increases in the late 00s), and I just gave up on them entirely.

Meo and Jadot got my votes and they are my go-tos for Boudots. Leroy makes an incredible Boudots- but I am just not interested in any wine at the price that one currently commands. I would especially encourage people who have not indulged to give the Meo Nuits Boudots a try. Yes, it bears quite a signature- but so does DRC for that matter- and it has quite a lot of spice and earth to it, plus in recent vintages I think Meo has finally hit his stride with a fine consistency. Also note that this is a rare case where some prices have come down. Meo Richebourg, Parantoux and Brulees have gone through the roof, but the 2015 and 2016 Boudots were less expensive than the excellent 2009 at release. $175 before discounts is certainly not a cheap bottle of wine, but for a top premier cru from a small production top producer that is a very nice price these days.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#17 Post by Robert Pavlovich » September 14th, 2018, 10:26 pm

I was going to vote Verdet, though I haven't tried very many, the 2015 really impressed me.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#18 Post by john stimson » September 15th, 2018, 7:21 am

By happenstance, i had the 2005 Tardy Boudots last night. It's actually quite a nice wine, still a bit too young, but very well balanced and without any excessive oak influence that can sometimes show up in Tardy from that era. I haven't looked at prices, but I imagine that this bottle is much more affordable than many of the others we're discussing. I don't believe that they still have access to these grapes.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#19 Post by Joel Deutsch » September 15th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Tardy farmed the Meo parcel until Nicolas took it back a few years ago. I found the Tardy wines to be very good and extremely well priced.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#20 Post by joz€f p1nxten » September 16th, 2018, 6:16 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 7:09 pm
The problem with the Georges Noellat wines is that they have gone from being reasonable to insanely expensive way too fast.
Curious to know where this price hike comes from in the US. Ex-domaine, the wines are still very reasonably priced. Retail pricing seems very steep in the US. We served the regular Nuits 15 as my brother's wedding together with the main plate. Quite delicious young.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#21 Post by Don Cornwell » September 16th, 2018, 2:58 pm

jwpinxten wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 6:16 am
Don Cornwell wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 7:09 pm
The problem with the Georges Noellat wines is that they have gone from being reasonable to insanely expensive way too fast.
Curious to know where this price hike comes from in the US. Ex-domaine, the wines are still very reasonably priced. Retail pricing seems very steep in the US. We served the regular Nuits 15 as my brother's wedding together with the main plate. Quite delicious young.
It's not just in the US. In part, it is the 2015 vintage. The current prices on the 2015 Georges Noellat Boudots in Europe begin at 130 Euros ($152) and go up rapidly from there. The least expensive price in the US is currently $249 (212 Euros).

With all of that said, I did note that the 2015 Grands Echezeaux took a huge jump in price in 2015 vs. 2014 even from the same source in Europe that I always buy from pre-arrival.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#22 Post by joz€f p1nxten » September 17th, 2018, 1:20 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 2:58 pm
jwpinxten wrote:
September 16th, 2018, 6:16 am
Don Cornwell wrote:
September 14th, 2018, 7:09 pm
The problem with the Georges Noellat wines is that they have gone from being reasonable to insanely expensive way too fast.
Curious to know where this price hike comes from in the US. Ex-domaine, the wines are still very reasonably priced. Retail pricing seems very steep in the US. We served the regular Nuits 15 as my brother's wedding together with the main plate. Quite delicious young.
It's not just in the US. In part, it is the 2015 vintage. The current prices on the 2015 Georges Noellat Boudots in Europe begin at 130 Euros ($152) and go up rapidly from there. The least expensive price in the US is currently $249 (212 Euros).

With all of that said, I did note that the 2015 Grands Echezeaux took a huge jump in price in 2015 vs. 2014 even from the same source in Europe that I always buy from pre-arrival.
On the GE, indeed, that one went up ex-domaine in 2015 - to bring it more in line with the market so I was told, but it was indeed a bit underpriced the previous years.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#23 Post by PCLIN » September 17th, 2018, 3:40 am

Due to this thread, I decided to open another bottle of ‘93 Tardy Boudots, drinking really well now, tannins were completely resolved, acidity of the vintage was keeping this alive. Exceptionally QPR.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#24 Post by Sh@n A » September 17th, 2018, 4:51 am

I am planning to set up a compare of the 2014 Meo and 2014 Georges. In the interim I saw the 2015 Meo on a sale (below the 2014) and snagged a bottle. Any thoughts on how the 2015 Meo may/may not be representative? The tasting notes are a little bit disjointed to me (looks like early notes were concerned about jamminess, and later notes talked about it still being "sappy' but balanced with some interesting saline notes).

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#25 Post by Sh@n A » September 26th, 2018, 6:54 pm

Had a 2011 Gerard Mugneret Les Boudots, which I picked up retail as I saw it randomly (still waiting for the Meos to arrive, I was able to procure a 2006 and a 2008). Preferred the Grivot over the GM. The GM was more dense and concentrated, a bit ripe as well, and lacked the spice and nuance of the Grivot, while having slightly more heat. There were dark fruits and some tertiary notes but I didn’t pick up much. Overall I felt the wine was ripe, a bit rounded and lacking a sense of earth, rusticity or other tertiary notes. (Please don’t Crucify me for my less sophisticated tasting notes!). I paid 100 for the bottle vs cellar tracker cost of 67 and the inflated price wasn’t worth it for me, but it is cheaper than Grivot. Maybe I don’t like boudots as much. Will do the Meo(s) next.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#26 Post by Don Cornwell » September 26th, 2018, 7:49 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 6:54 pm
Had a 2011 Gerard Mugneret Les Boudots, which I picked up retail as I saw it randomly (still waiting for the Meos to arrive, I was able to procure a 2006 and a 2008). Preferred the Grivot over the GM. The GM was more dense and concentrated, a bit ripe as well, and lacked the spice and nuance of the Grivot, while having slightly more heat. There were dark fruits and some tertiary notes but I didn’t pick up much. Overall I felt the wine was ripe, a bit rounded and lacking a sense of earth, rusticity or other tertiary notes. (Please don’t Crucify me for my less sophisticated tasting notes!). I paid 100 for the bottle vs cellar tracker cost of 67 and the inflated price wasn’t worth it for me. Maybe I don’t like boudots as much. will do the Meo(s) next.
Shon:

Trying to compare a 2012 Grivot Boudots with a 2011 Gerard Mugneret Boudots is a very difficult comparison because of the huge difference in vintages. The 2012 vintage was quite ripe while the 2011 vintage is a much lighter styled vintage that will not require nearly as long to be ready to drink. The vintages aren't quite polar opposites, but suffice it to say that there are lot of burgundy collectors who really affirmatively dislike the 2011 vintage because of the lack of density on the palate and the perception that the vintage is thin and too light.

Gerard Mugneret also isn't considered to be on the same level as a burgundy producer with Grivot, Georges Noellat (who has only been considered to be high level producer since approximately the 2012 vintage), and Meo-Camuzet. Also, you're probably not going to see much secondary (and no tertiary) character in a red burgundy only 6 or 7 years old.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#27 Post by Gerhard P. » September 26th, 2018, 11:41 pm

Seriously, I don´t understand the missing love for JJ Confuron´s Boudots. It´s his best 1er Cru (usually better than his VR Beaumonts) and only a hint below the Clos Vougeot (if at all) ...
Also aging perfectly ... and should be available for around 100 ...

Any biases here ?
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#28 Post by Sanjay Nandurkar » September 27th, 2018, 2:25 am

Nobody mentions Leroy?

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#29 Post by Gerhard P. » September 27th, 2018, 2:32 am

Sanjay Nandurkar wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 2:25 am
Nobody mentions Leroy?
The poll stated: ex-Leroy ...
(simply a price-question)
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#30 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 27th, 2018, 5:10 am

Wow Don , my friend , I don't think you know the wines from Gerard Mugneret all that well . His wines consistently perform greatly at our blind tastings against all premier cru's from various terroirs . His wines are , imho , a grade above Noellat .
I think that Gerard Mugneret's wines are one of the best kept secrets in Burgundy . It's quite amazing that he always ends at the top in our blind tastings , again and again over the last years . ( see my nephew's website Vinotopia for the results ) . ( www.vinotopia.be )

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#31 Post by Craig G » September 27th, 2018, 5:40 am

Herwig is just raving, as are the eight people who voted for Gerard Mugneret. Nothing to see here. Move along and please keep buying Grivot and Meo.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#32 Post by Herwig Janssen » September 27th, 2018, 5:54 am

haha Craig , you are like Rainer .... But I fully agree : Mugneret sucks , move on .

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#33 Post by Craig G » September 27th, 2018, 6:01 am

Fortunately most people are confused about which Mugneret to buy. It’s like living in that neighborhood with Mugneret Road, Mugneret Court and Mugneret Lane: If you don’t want people to find your house, it’s ideal.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#34 Post by Sh@n A » September 27th, 2018, 6:16 am

Hah! I originally bought the wrong Mugneret thinking I found a "deal" and then groaned at myself when realizing my mistake (but was able to return it).

I should say, the G-M wasn't miles apart from the Grivot for my personal enjoyability...and the G-M looks like much better value (which was not my poll question). The CT "average value", which I ?think? is the cost basis for the 2012 Grivot is nearly 1.8x of the 2011 G-M. I didn't think the Grivot was 2x better, maybe only slightly so, so the G-M was better value to me. If the 2011 vintage was that noticeably weaker a vintage, then the G-M may literally have been on top/better if apples-for-apples 2012. FWIW, the 2012 Grivot vs. 2012 G-M is 1.2x the cost though, so the CT "average value" closes in 2012. But in 2016 "average values" should be a better proxy for cost (time of season we are in right now)... and the multiple blows out to 1.6x again (Grivot being much more expensive)... with Vinous giving the G-M a slightly higher score (!). Although, maybe 2016 an odd year as I don't see any offers on WS for Grivot 2016 and only one for G-M at a higher price; going back to 2015 has a big spread though. That said, my poll wasn't "what's the best value", but rather, "your favorite"... only clipping out Leroy on price.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#35 Post by Gerhard P. » September 27th, 2018, 7:44 am

... but don´t confuse G-M with M-G ... ! neener
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#36 Post by Don Cornwell » October 3rd, 2018, 6:44 pm

Herwig Janssen wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:10 am
Wow Don , my friend , I don't think you know the wines from Gerard Mugneret all that well . His wines consistently perform greatly at our blind tastings against all premier cru's from various terroirs . His wines are , imho , a grade above Noellat .
I think that Gerard Mugneret's wines are one of the best kept secrets in Burgundy . It's quite amazing that he always ends at the top in our blind tastings , again and again over the last years . ( see my nephew's website Vinotopia for the results ) . ( www.vinotopia.be )
Herwig:

My experience with Gerard Mugneret was in the mid-90s and it wasn't good. The only Boudots I ever had from him was the 1996 and I thought it was very forgettable. I also tasted a bottle of his 1999 Echezeaux that didn't excite me much either, despite being from my favorite vintage since 1962. Also, outside of Vosne Romanee, I have historically bought very few 1ers -- the exceptions being Clos St. Jacques, Amoureuses, Chambolle Les Cras (from Roumier and Barthod), Chambolle Combe d'Orveaux (Clavelier).

Part of the problem (or benefit I suspect from your perspective) is that he has zero name/brand recognition in the US. His wines are repped/exported by Becky Wasserman, but even most of the people here that import Becky's producer's don't bring in Gerard Mugneret. You would have do a very thorough search to find anyone here carrying the wines and you won't see them on restaurant lists either. Steve Tanzer first began reviewing his wines with the 2015 vintage (some nice reviews). Meadows has reviewed the wines for years, but he never gave the wines good enough reviews to really generate attention. The fact that I have encountered his wines at all is mostly due to inquisitiveness on my part.

I've learned over the years, as you obviously have done, that there are some producers who make very good wines that for some reason don't make the critic's radar screens -- or are slow to get their attention. (I often suspect that this occurs because the people running the winery have little time for, or little use for, wine critics.) But I do appreciate the heads up, even though I've now stopped buying new vintages of red burgundy.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#37 Post by Jayson Cohen » October 3rd, 2018, 10:34 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 11:41 pm
Seriously, I don´t understand the missing love for JJ Confuron´s Boudots. It´s his best 1er Cru (usually better than his VR Beaumonts) and only a hint below the Clos Vougeot (if at all) ...
Also aging perfectly ... and should be available for around 100 ...

Any biases here ?
My recollection, which may be wrong after so many years, is that the US bottles used to be different than the European ones, the former getting the extra oak treatment. That created a bias in the US among traditionalists and purists, who didn’t want to drink oaky wines. (Someone jump in if I’m remembering this incorrectly.).

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#38 Post by Tom Reddick » October 3rd, 2018, 10:48 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:34 pm
Gerhard P. wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 11:41 pm
Seriously, I don´t understand the missing love for JJ Confuron´s Boudots. It´s his best 1er Cru (usually better than his VR Beaumonts) and only a hint below the Clos Vougeot (if at all) ...
Also aging perfectly ... and should be available for around 100 ...

Any biases here ?
My recollection, which may be wrong after so many years, is that the US bottles used to be different than the European ones, the former getting the extra oak treatment. That created a bias in the US among traditionalists and purists, who didn’t want to drink oaky wines. (Someone jump in if I’m remembering this incorrectly.).
There were long-standing rumors along these lines about many of the wines Robert Kacher was importing at the time (including Confuron)- and such rumors were most intense with regards to Claude Dugat and Christian Serafin. The tales often went hand in hand with conspiracy theories about Parker and Kacher plotting to change the face of burgundy.

I never did find out if there was any truth to them, though certainly a great many wines in the Kacher portfolio had more oak than I would have liked. But that could be a function of his selection of such wines as much as anything else.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#39 Post by Gerhard P. » October 3rd, 2018, 11:39 pm

Tom Reddick wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:48 pm
Jayson Cohen wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 10:34 pm
Gerhard P. wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 11:41 pm
Seriously, I don´t understand the missing love for JJ Confuron´s Boudots. It´s his best 1er Cru (usually better than his VR Beaumonts) and only a hint below the Clos Vougeot (if at all) ...
Also aging perfectly ... and should be available for around 100 ...

Any biases here ?
My recollection, which may be wrong after so many years, is that the US bottles used to be different than the European ones, the former getting the extra oak treatment. That created a bias in the US among traditionalists and purists, who didn’t want to drink oaky wines. (Someone jump in if I’m remembering this incorrectly.).
There were long-standing rumors along these lines about many of the wines Robert Kacher was importing at the time (including Confuron)- and such rumors were most intense with regards to Claude Dugat and Christian Serafin. The tales often went hand in hand with conspiracy theories about Parker and Kacher plotting to change the face of burgundy.

I never did find out if there was any truth to them, though certainly a great many wines in the Kacher portfolio had more oak than I would have liked. But that could be a function of his selection of such wines as much as anything else.
Sure I´ve never tasted anything like that (in Europe), but I once asked Alain Meunier, and he said that it was a short period in the early 90ies when he used special barrels for the US-market, but that has long been finished ...
But ok, that leaves more bottles for Europe ... [cheers.gif]
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#40 Post by Craig G » October 4th, 2018, 4:12 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 6:44 pm
My experience with Gerard Mugneret was in the mid-90s and it wasn't good. The only Boudots I ever had from him was the 1996 and I thought it was very forgettable.
Don, when did you have that wine? I’ve had it twice in the past three years and thought it was quite good. The 2002 is super. I’ve bought some 1999 but don’t have them in hand yet.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#41 Post by Tom Reddick » October 4th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Gerhard P. wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 11:39 pm
Sure I´ve never tasted anything like that (in Europe), but I once asked Alain Meunier, and he said that it was a short period in the early 90ies when he used special barrels for the US-market, but that has long been finished ...
But ok, that leaves more bottles for Europe ... [cheers.gif]
Thank you Gerhard- that confirms one of the earliest wine tales I ever heard where the answer has remained a mystery, or at least until now.

Makes me feel a little better about those producers overall. I always felt the Ambroise and Serafin wines could eventually overcome the oak- but not the others.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#42 Post by Don Cornwell » October 4th, 2018, 8:11 pm

Craig G wrote:
October 4th, 2018, 4:12 am
Don Cornwell wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 6:44 pm
My experience with Gerard Mugneret was in the mid-90s and it wasn't good. The only Boudots I ever had from him was the 1996 and I thought it was very forgettable.
Don, when did you have that wine? I’ve had it twice in the past three years and thought it was quite good. The 2002 is super. I’ve bought some 1999 but don’t have them in hand yet.
Craig:

I consumed the Boudots in 2010 along with a few others from the vineyard. Then we did another NSG tasting in 2012 and in deference to me, since I generally just don't like NSG, the group decided to bring mostly Boudots, including several Leroys and a couple of Meos.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#43 Post by Herwig Janssen » October 4th, 2018, 11:26 pm

Also , when there is a generation switch , wines can become completely different

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#44 Post by Sh@n A » October 6th, 2018, 7:47 pm

I had the 2006 Meo. A more detailed note on cellar tracker (take the little from it that you will). Ultimately, felt this was the best producer. Had more complexity and the putrid sweetness was not at the forefront. At the end, I was not wowed by this either — that same sweetness popped up again. So maybe I’m just not a boudots fan anymore. My takeaway thus far is (I) palate shift is real and (II) i will rank them Meo first, G-M second, Grivot last (without miles of difference between them). I purchased a 2008 and 2015 Meo alongside the 2006, and will drink them and hope for a better reaction.
Last edited by Sh@n A on June 29th, 2020, 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#45 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » June 29th, 2020, 5:42 am

Friends,

My vote goes to GEORGES NOELLAT followed by Grivot. I must,however, add JJ Confuron who rarely disappoints at a far more interesting price than most other competitors.

SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#46 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » June 29th, 2020, 5:45 am

I know I am late to join this thread but since it is a very intersting issue with always valuable newcomers on the block the discusssionn can never be closed. Anyone having positive experiences lately with the MONGEARD-MUGNERET BOUDOTS?
SINCERELY JOHAN

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#47 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » June 29th, 2020, 5:52 am

I’ve really liked the Michel noellat boudots.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#48 Post by Robert Sand » June 29th, 2020, 8:34 am

I know it's an old thread, but where is Leroy?
It's expensive - but usually great

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#49 Post by john stimson » June 29th, 2020, 6:04 pm

Robert--you missed the header, which says "X-Leroy" what are your two favorite Boudots.

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Re: Your favorite Boudot

#50 Post by Robert Sand » June 30th, 2020, 9:29 am

john stimson wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:04 pm
Robert--you missed the header, which says "X-Leroy" what are your two favorite Boudots.
Yes, now I see ... thanks.
That happens when not scrolling up completely ... [shrug.gif]

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