Selling Wine

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Linda Johnson
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Selling Wine

#1 Post by Linda Johnson » August 29th, 2018, 7:01 am

I have asked people on another board however I think I am sending people nuts there asking silly questions.
I know nothing about wine,rather all I know is if you drink a lot of it you fall over.
I am from CT but I am in Europe at the moment as is the wine.
We were given 2 cases of Petrus as a wedding gift,one was a 1985 the other is a 1982.
I was asking for advice on another board and the latest offer from a British man is 1350 pounds a bottle for the 1982 and 650 pounds a bottle for the 1985.
Some people say I can get more than that,however somebody else tells me Petrus prices have gone down.
is 1350 and 650 a decent price,he said he will take all 24 bottles.
Sorry if I am asking silly questions,any advice would be gratefully received.
Best,Linda

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Re: Selling Wine

#2 Post by Brian Tuite » August 29th, 2018, 7:10 am

You got the wine for free, someone is offering you $31.2K for it and you’re concerned about getting cheated [scratch.gif]
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Re: Selling Wine

#3 Post by Bdklein » August 29th, 2018, 7:15 am

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 7:01 am
I have asked people on another board however I think I am sending people nuts there asking silly questions.
I know nothing about wine,rather all I know is if you drink a lot of it you fall over.
I am from CT but I am in Europe at the moment as is the wine.
We were given 2 cases of Petrus as a wedding gift,one was a 1985 the other is a 1982.
I was asking for advice on another board and the latest offer from a British man is 1350 pounds a bottle for the 1982 and 650 pounds a bottle for the 1985.
Some people say I can get more than that,however somebody else tells me Petrus prices have gone down.
is 1350 and 650 a decent price,he said he will take all 24 bottles.
Sorry if I am asking silly questions,any advice would be gratefully received.
Best,Linda

When were you given this wine? How is it being stored ?
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Re: Selling Wine

#4 Post by k s h i n » August 29th, 2018, 7:19 am

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 7:01 am
I have asked people on another board however I think I am sending people nuts there asking silly questions.
I know nothing about wine,rather all I know is if you drink a lot of it you fall over.
I am from CT but I am in Europe at the moment as is the wine.
We were given 2 cases of Petrus as a wedding gift,one was a 1985 the other is a 1982.
I was asking for advice on another board and the latest offer from a British man is 1350 pounds a bottle for the 1982 and 650 pounds a bottle for the 1985.
Some people say I can get more than that,however somebody else tells me Petrus prices have gone down.
is 1350 and 650 a decent price,he said he will take all 24 bottles.
Sorry if I am asking silly questions,any advice would be gratefully received.
Best,Linda
If cellared properly, you should get at least $36k for the 82 Petrus, $18k for the 85. There are a lot of London grey market merchants who would pay that or more.
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Re: Selling Wine

#5 Post by GregT » August 29th, 2018, 8:14 am

You will get the same advice here you got on WS. Since you are an unknown seller, if you can find someone who will buy it, you probably won't get top dollar for it. People who are seriously interested will want to know when your uncle bought it and from whom. IF he got it on release and stored it properly, that's good. If he bought from someone else who had bought from another, that's not good because you can't say anything about provenance.

So then people will want to see the bottles and some will imagine that they can tell a lot by looking. They can tell about the condition of the bottles, but not much about the wine inside unless the bottles are damaged in some way, in which case the storage conditions might be called into question.

You don't say how long you have been storing it, nor what a normal cellar is. My cousin who lived in Bath stored his wine in the unused fireplace. It got pretty hot in the summer.

As far as paying taxes if you bring it back into the US, as a consumer, you can bring in two cases of wine with no problem. I have done it many times, as have others. It's a gift, so you have no idea of the real value, and that is what I would declare. Customs isn't going to research the possible value and as mentioned, since you haven't owned the wine from day one, it may be of no value if it hasn't been stored properly.

I hope it's not bad luck to sell your wedding gifts.
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Re: Selling Wine

#6 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » August 29th, 2018, 10:04 am

Send them to an auction house
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Re: Selling Wine

#7 Post by Paul McCourt » August 29th, 2018, 10:32 am

Storage would be my first question.
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Re: Selling Wine

#8 Post by Jeff Leve » August 29th, 2018, 10:46 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 7:10 am
You got the wine for free, someone is offering you $31.2K for it and you’re concerned about getting cheated [scratch.gif]
Considering that 82 Petrus could sell for 50K and 85 should reach 25K, yes, it is reasonable to give it thought. That is if the story is even believable that a non-wine person would receive cases of Petrus as a gift.

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Re: Selling Wine

#9 Post by Howard Cooper » August 29th, 2018, 1:06 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 10:46 am

Considering that 82 Petrus could sell for 50K and 85 should reach 25K, yes, it is reasonable to give it thought. That is if the story is even believable that a non-wine person would receive cases of Petrus as a gift.
Are these the prices the wines would sell for if you went to buy them or the prices she could expect to receive? Obviously, if she goes through an auction house like Christies or something similar in Europe, she will not net full retail price, and, if she tries to sell them on her own, she is highly unlikely to be able to find the broad customer base for such wines (she has no real contacts) and is again likely to net less than full retail price.
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Re: Selling Wine

#10 Post by Todd Hamina » August 29th, 2018, 1:11 pm

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Re: Selling Wine

#11 Post by lleichtman » August 29th, 2018, 2:28 pm

Problem I see here is that the wines may have not been stored properly. No information was given on the provenance of these wines. Properly stored from the beginning(the year they were gifted wasn't mentioned either), the value of these at auction the 1982 is going for but not sold at $3000 per bottle, the 1985 right around $2500 per bottle retail. No auction prices for the 1985 seen. I'm sure Acker would sell these without much provenance.
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Re: Selling Wine

#12 Post by Sh@n A » August 29th, 2018, 3:38 pm

Why don't folks in this scenario allow for x% of the wines to be popped and poured to provide additional information regarding provenance?

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Re: Selling Wine

#13 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » August 29th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 10:46 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 7:10 am
You got the wine for free, someone is offering you $31.2K for it and you’re concerned about getting cheated [scratch.gif]
Considering that 82 Petrus could sell for 50K and 85 should reach 25K, yes, it is reasonable to give it thought. That is if the story is even believable that a non-wine person would receive cases of Petrus as a gift.
Did they pass through Thomas Jefferson’s cellar?

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Re: Selling Wine

#14 Post by Kirk.Grant » August 29th, 2018, 5:59 pm

M A T T H A R T L E Y wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 10:04 am
Send them to an auction house
This...not knowing a history and the "gifting" of such wines leads me to think this is the best choice for you. You will know that the wine was sold at auction and fetched the best price possible.
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Re: Selling Wine

#15 Post by Markus S » August 29th, 2018, 6:24 pm

You're not drinking any to see if you really do fall over?
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Re: Selling Wine

#16 Post by Mattstolz » August 29th, 2018, 6:33 pm

Image

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Re: Selling Wine

#17 Post by GregT » August 29th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Wow - did he really eat with his mouth open like that? Gross.
Why don't folks in this scenario allow for x% of the wines to be popped and poured to provide additional information regarding provenance?
It might. But as mentioned though - IF the story is believable anyway.
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Re: Selling Wine

#18 Post by Randy Bowman » August 29th, 2018, 8:09 pm

Linda Johnson
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[rofl.gif]

Okay, which one of you created an account to pull the troll?

[rofl.gif]
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Re: Selling Wine

#19 Post by Todd F r e n c h » August 29th, 2018, 8:16 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:
August 29th, 2018, 8:09 pm
Linda Johnson
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:17 am

[rofl.gif]

Okay, which one of you created an account to pull the troll?

[rofl.gif]
Was starting to wonder the same thing - one post, plenty of replies, none from 'Linda'
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Re: Selling Wine

#20 Post by Jorge Henriquez » August 29th, 2018, 8:48 pm

At least they weren't in a self-storage locker. Amiright?
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Re: Selling Wine

#21 Post by John A Hunt » August 29th, 2018, 10:59 pm

Sorry, my spidey senses are tingling. This post is a fishing trip.

Or an ad, at best, if the wine exists.

Berserkers are a terrific bunch for responding authentically. OP....., not so much.

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Re: Selling Wine

#22 Post by Andy Cobin » August 29th, 2018, 11:33 pm

Inform those who gifted you the wine that you're selling it and ask them what a fair price would be. I'm sure their answer to the price or assessment that your selling their gift, will give you the answer(s) you seek.

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Re: Selling Wine

#23 Post by Linda Johnson » August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am

Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda

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Re: Selling Wine

#24 Post by Peter Hirsch » August 30th, 2018, 3:21 am

Linda. Imagine one of your bottles is worth (X) if it has perfect provenance. Now imagine it's worth (X-Y) if it has terrible provenance. So (Y) is the cost of the lack of great provenance, and presence of terrible provenance. Fractions of (Y) define the range from terrible to average to great provenance. If provenance is unknown, different people with different risk appetites will factor different values for (Y). Take your case. If you say (but can not prove) your uncle kept the wine in a proper cellar, different people will assign different risk premia to the value of (Y) to them. If you can prove (original receipts, bills of lading showing when the wine arrived, date of cellar construction, pictures with dates showing the wine in your uncle's cellar, your uncle's bona fides as a known and careful wine collector, etc, etc) that the wine has great provenance, then the cost of (Y) drops. The less you can prove and the more you just 'say', the more variable (Y) becomes based on individual risk tolerances. Long winded, but if you want the best price, you have to prove provenance or find a buyer who's very risk accepting.

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Re: Selling Wine

#25 Post by k s h i n » August 30th, 2018, 5:17 am

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am
Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda
You can easily sell for $3000 for the 82. As long as the fill, color and label look good, the market really doesn't care much about the provenance.
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Re: Selling Wine

#26 Post by GregT » August 30th, 2018, 8:16 am

One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?
They usually can't unless the cork has been pushed out because it was frozen. So they look at external factors and what can be known. If the label is torn and shredded, they don't trust the storage. And like Peter says, if you can't prove storage but just tell them the story, they don't trust it unless you have a track record of storing and selling pristine wine.

And if they don't trust your story or wine, you won't get top price. But you'll get a decent price just because of the label and name. Even if it's fake wine. That's why people make fakes after all.
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Re: Selling Wine

#27 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » August 30th, 2018, 9:59 am

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am
Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda
You could be leaving lots of $$$ on the table by not, at the bare minimum, getting a second opinion from any reputable auction house.

What is the rush?
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Re: Selling Wine

#28 Post by Poppy Davis » August 30th, 2018, 10:16 am

M A T T H A R T L E Y wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 9:59 am
Linda Johnson wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am
Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda
You could be leaving lots of $$$ on the table by not, at the bare minimum, getting a second opinion from any reputable auction house.

What is the rush?
Agreed. At the very least, submit photos of the wine and a detailed description of how they have been stored with the full timeline to Sotheby's in London: https://www.sothebys.com/en/auction-estimates?locale=en
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Re: Selling Wine

#29 Post by larry schaffer » August 30th, 2018, 10:19 am

My advice is to go to a local wine auction house or to speak to someone directly - and take this off this board . . .

Cheers.
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Re: Selling Wine

#30 Post by Jorge Henriquez » August 30th, 2018, 11:09 am

What is a “proper cellar” vs. a “normal cellar”?
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Re: Selling Wine

#31 Post by Poppy Davis » August 30th, 2018, 11:20 am

Jorge Henriquez wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 11:09 am
What is a “proper cellar” vs. a “normal cellar”?
I'm guessing active vs. passing cooling. She's in Europe, so a passive underground cellar might be just fine.
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Re: Selling Wine

#32 Post by Josh Grossman » August 30th, 2018, 12:00 pm

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am
Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda
The biggest issue is heat. Ideally you want it stored at between 54 and 60 degrees Fahrenheit. However-if it's ever been over 80 for a sustained amount of time--it's almost guaranteed worthless. Usually ullage is going to indicate if it's mostly been stored properly where as seepage and/or a raised cork indicate that something was majorly wrong with the storage:
https://www.bbr.com/bbx-wines-inspection-guidelines

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Re: Selling Wine

#33 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 30th, 2018, 12:11 pm

k s h i n wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 5:17 am
Linda Johnson wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 12:22 am
Thank you for your advice,as for storage,according to my husband his uncle had a proper wine cellar,we have had the wine about 6 weeks,we have it in a normal cellar.
I think I will take the British guy up on his offer.
One thing I do not understand is,people saying if it has been stored correctly,how can anybody tell if has been stored correctly until they drink it?.
Best,Linda
You can easily sell for $3000 for the 82. As long as the fill, color and label look good, the market really doesn't care much about the provenance.
Well that's interesting.

I'd phrase it differently. The market cares a great deal, but almost never knows much about provenance. There is no way to be certain of how the wines were stored, or by whom, so the auction market tends to buy blind. Lots of auction offerings contain the boast "removed from temperature controlled storage" or similar, which means less than nothing (put into this storage on Monday, removed on Tuesday?) or even "stored in 55 degree cellar since Hector was a pup," but these are just lies we tell and accept because, well, what else are you going to do?

Once in a while, there will be a "Doris Duke Collection" auction equivalent, and you have an inlining of where the wine has been, but that is the rare exception.
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Re: Selling Wine

#34 Post by YacobovE » August 30th, 2018, 2:11 pm

I'm confused on two points that are semi-related, but also semi-unrelated to OPs original ask:
1. Your uncle gave you a wedding present 6 weeks ago and you're already trying to flip it?
2. And if your answer to my first question is that your uncle knows you're selling the wine, why wouldn't he help you sell the wine? My guess is that he probably knows the most about wine between you, your husband and your uncle.
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Re: Selling Wine

#35 Post by Marcus Dean » August 30th, 2018, 2:51 pm

I know a Nigerian prince who would be very interested in these wines

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Re: Selling Wine

#36 Post by Karl K » August 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm

I agree with the skepticism of Yacobov and others

She doesn’t know about extremely rare wine but possesses some, just recently given as a gift, and she is going to sell at a deep discount?

Major disconnect here

What kind of collector would put such gems in the hands of someone so inexperienced in the hobby?

If he wanted to help her, he would have sold the wines himself and given her the money

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Re: Selling Wine

#37 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » August 30th, 2018, 6:39 pm

Karl K wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm
I agree with the skepticism of Yacobov and others

She doesn’t know about extremely rare wine but possesses some, just recently given as a gift, and she is going to sell at a deep discount?

Major disconnect here

What kind of collector would put such gems in the hands of someone so inexperienced in the hobby?

If he wanted to help her, he would have sold the wines himself and given her the money

Definition of a con is a transaction where one participant suspends normal belief and hard-won experiential knowledge because they think they are getting something at a major discount
So you think she is Rudi’s beard?

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Re: Selling Wine

#38 Post by Marcus Dean » August 30th, 2018, 6:58 pm

Tom G l a s g o w wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 6:39 pm
Karl K wrote:
August 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm
I agree with the skepticism of Yacobov and others

She doesn’t know about extremely rare wine but possesses some, just recently given as a gift, and she is going to sell at a deep discount?

Major disconnect here

What kind of collector would put such gems in the hands of someone so inexperienced in the hobby?

If he wanted to help her, he would have sold the wines himself and given her the money

Definition of a con is a transaction where one participant suspends normal belief and hard-won experiential knowledge because they think they are getting something at a major discount
So you think she is Rudi’s beard?
I dont believe the wines exist and this is a straight con designed to part someone with their money.
1st post baited the hook,
2nd post pulled the bait away by saying that the wines were going to be sold to the "englishman" at the disclosed prices.
I am sure if you PMed "linda" and offered just a little more she/he/they would agree to stall the earlier buyer if you could deposit the funds pronto,.

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Re: Selling Wine

#39 Post by Rauno E (NZ) » August 30th, 2018, 9:45 pm

Well, if this IS a con and Linda is just baiting good luck to her. I would be amazed if any regular poster - even reader - of this forum would go for it. So many threads on risks of fakes etc etc. And if it's NOT a con: Welcome Linda :)!! I would say your uncle was quite unwise gifting you guys the wine, presumably knowing you care little for such, instead of just giving you a pair of Rolexes or something. If you want to sell, go for it. The offer you have on the table is ok given the little info you / we seem to have, and there's plenty of sources (e.g. winesearcher or auction houses) you can go to for price validation. If they are pristine with great provenance, then you're selling them too cheap - but how much hassle is it worth to you?
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Re: Selling Wine

#40 Post by Linda Johnson » August 31st, 2018, 1:08 am

To The people that have offered me advice I thank you.
To the people that want to argue,please evolve,not everything in this world is a con.
I do not know wine,maybe some of you do not know my subject.
We are drowning in debt,frankly how wine can be worth so much money is beyond me,I was just trying to get some advice.
I thank the genuine people that offered me advice.
Best,Linda

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Re: Selling Wine

#41 Post by ky1em!ttskus » August 31st, 2018, 9:04 am

Sitting on blue chip wines with no knowledge of wine while drowning in debt and simultaneously questioning an offer for thousands of dollars for said wine. Totally following.

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Mattstolz
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Re: Selling Wine

#42 Post by Mattstolz » August 31st, 2018, 1:33 pm

Linda Johnson wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 1:08 am
To The people that have offered me advice I thank you.
To the people that want to argue,please evolve,not everything in this world is a con.
I do not know wine,maybe some of you do not know my subject.
We are drowning in debt,frankly how wine can be worth so much money is beyond me,I was just trying to get some advice.
I thank the genuine people that offered me advice.
Best,Linda
if this is true, the best advice you've gotten so far is to have your uncle who bought the wine help you find a way to resell them. if he has a connection, the means, and the knowledge to buy cases of 82 Petrus, he is bound to be a resource you trust to get you good information on how people go about buying and selling wines like these. these are not wines people just stumble upon.

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Jorge Henriquez
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Re: Selling Wine

#43 Post by Jorge Henriquez » August 31st, 2018, 3:14 pm

ky1em!ttskus wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 9:04 am
Sitting on blue chip wines with no knowledge of wine while drowning in debt and simultaneously questioning an offer for thousands of dollars for said wine. Totally following.
Totes normal.....and I don’t mean cellar.
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"I'm a bowl of excitement, bitch!" TMF 08/13/10

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David Glasser
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Re: Selling Wine

#44 Post by David Glasser » August 31st, 2018, 4:48 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 1:33 pm
Linda Johnson wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 1:08 am
To The people that have offered me advice I thank you.
To the people that want to argue,please evolve,not everything in this world is a con.
I do not know wine,maybe some of you do not know my subject.
We are drowning in debt,frankly how wine can be worth so much money is beyond me,I was just trying to get some advice.
I thank the genuine people that offered me advice.
Best,Linda
if this is true, the best advice you've gotten so far is to have your uncle who bought the wine help you find a way to resell them. if he has a connection, the means, and the knowledge to buy cases of 82 Petrus, he is bound to be a resource you trust to get you good information on how people go about buying and selling wines like these. these are not wines people just stumble upon.
Unless they don't want uncle to know they're selling or in debt. If that's the case I hope he doesn't read WB.

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Re: Selling Wine

#45 Post by Karl K » August 31st, 2018, 8:33 pm

Bob’s yer uncle.
K a z a k s

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Jorge Henriquez
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Re: Selling Wine

#46 Post by Jorge Henriquez » August 31st, 2018, 8:51 pm

Karl K wrote:
August 31st, 2018, 8:33 pm
Bob’s yer uncle.
Parker?
Cohort Numero Uno!
"I'm a bowl of excitement, bitch!" TMF 08/13/10

Karl K
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Re: Selling Wine

#47 Post by Karl K » August 31st, 2018, 9:15 pm

😆
K a z a k s

Linda Johnson
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Re: Selling Wine

#48 Post by Linda Johnson » September 1st, 2018, 12:28 am

Thanks,I am sending it to the British guy Monday.
My husband does not want to ask his uncle,maybe angry we are selling a gift,however up to our necks in debt.
Best,Linda

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Re: Selling Wine

#49 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » September 1st, 2018, 7:24 am

Good luck, make sure you get paid.

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Jorge Henriquez
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Re: Selling Wine

#50 Post by Jorge Henriquez » September 1st, 2018, 8:01 am

Linda Johnson wrote:
September 1st, 2018, 12:28 am
Thanks,I am sending it to the British guy Monday.
My husband does not want to ask his uncle,maybe angry we are selling a gift,however up to our necks in debt.
Best,Linda
British guy gonna be mad AF when he finds out the truth. [snort.gif]
Cohort Numero Uno!
"I'm a bowl of excitement, bitch!" TMF 08/13/10

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