Update: FEDERAL INDICTMENT - Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

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Todd Laubach
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Update: FEDERAL INDICTMENT - Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#1 Post by Todd Laubach » July 12th, 2018, 1:30 pm

I want to thank the 2 people on this board that reached out to me. If you currently have wine stored at the facility, I urge you to immediately contact an attorney to get your wine back or what is left of it.

76 cases or 912 bottles in storage. Total wine delivered 153 bottles. That is correct, he completely wiped us out. He replaced some of the cases with cheap bottles of wine. My brother and I foolishly did not have insurance so a total loss. This is what Bill stole from us. We have been on the Rhys list since the beginning. He wiped us out of all of our Rhys from 2006 – 2013, All Bordeaux from 2003-2005, a lot of Pegau and Clos Des Papes, Barolo, Karl Lawrence, Outpost. Unfortunately, we have young families and are not in the position to replace the wine. We are officially out of the wine collecting business. Our guess based on information we have is that Bill has sold the wine to merchants across the United States and they are either unknowingly or knowingly selling stolen goods. He has no documentation for provenance so the wine merchants had to be suspicious but probably turned a blind eye.

Bordeaux 191 btls
CDP/N .Rhone 116 btls
California Cab 43 btls
Rhys 212 btls
Arcadian 33 btls
Saxum 25 btls
Italian 60 btls

If you are interested, here is a brief summary. There is a lot more detail that I have left out. My brother and I have had our wine stored at Safe Harbour since 2010. It had been uneventful until the last year or so. We always had access to our wine and were able to easily schedule a time with Bill to pick up wine or add to our collection. We tried to visit Safe Harbour in February of 2017 but Bill indicated he was unavailable that weekend. We became busy and did not attempt to get additional wine until November 2017. At that time, we were told by Bill that he had cervical fusion of his upper back and that Safe Harbour was closed until January 2018. We contacted Bill in January he stated that due to insurance change, people were no longer allowed in the warehouse. We told him at that time that we would like to get all of our wine delivered to our houses. I am not going to go into the gory details but let’s just say it was broken promise after broken promise and he never delivered the wine.

We began investigating what he was telling us and found most of everything to be untrue. Additionally, we discovered that Bill Holder was sued by AIG to recover $354,000 in “stolen” wine from the warehouse that AIG payed out from an insurance claim. Apparently, a customer showed up to get his wine and Bill reported a break-in and the Anne Arundel police were there when the customer showed up – This was in June/July of 2016. It is my understanding that 7-8 people were affected but only one of those clients has become public through the law suit by AIG.

Fast forward to April of 2018 – Federal law enforcement showed up at my brother’s house to ask if we had wine stored a Safe Harbour. At that point we retained and attorney and after our attorney tried to get Bill to deliver the wine, we filed suit in court to get access to our wine. We had a court date of July 10th but I reached out to Bill and stated the authorities were onto him, we had a court date in 10 days and it was to his advantage to release the wine. We told him we had a 3rd party ready to pick it up. He agreed to let the 3rd party pick it up on July 6th. The wine was delivered to my brother’s house that afternoon. Most of the wine was gone.
Last edited by Todd Laubach on December 20th, 2018, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#2 Post by c fu » July 12th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Wow. Sorry you had to go through this. Hope there’s some restitution.
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#3 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 12th, 2018, 1:47 pm

Where is (was) this place? DC?
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#4 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 12th, 2018, 1:50 pm

Glen Burnie, MD

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#5 Post by Todd Laubach » July 12th, 2018, 1:54 pm

c fu wrote:Wow. Sorry you had to go through this. Hope there’s some restitution.
Highly doubtful - We are small fish. This is going add up to losses in the millions. Our best hope is that he ends up in jail.

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#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 12th, 2018, 2:29 pm

So sorry to hear about this Todd. Money back would be better than the miscreants in jail, but the latter would be some measure of solace.
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#7 Post by Rich Brown » July 12th, 2018, 3:32 pm

Oh man, how terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that Todd. I can only imagine how you feel and obviously it's easy for me to say not being in your position, but I would do my best to try and keep things in perspective. Ultimately it's only wine, and you still have what's important in life - your family and your health.

Again, I know that's not what you want to hear....but it's the only thing that helps me in those types of scenarios.

Best of luck with some sort of resolution.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#8 Post by David Glasser » July 12th, 2018, 5:01 pm

Awful news, so sorry to hear this Todd. I wish/hope there will be an opportunity for at least some level of restitution.

I was contemplating offsite storage a few years ago and Safe Harbour was one place that I had considered. We fortunately stuck with home storage but under not too different circumstances I might have been in the same boat with you.

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#9 Post by Anton D » July 12th, 2018, 5:12 pm

Arrrrrrgh! [swearing.gif]

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#10 Post by Todd Laubach » July 12th, 2018, 6:34 pm

Rich Brown wrote:Oh man, how terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that Todd. I can only imagine how you feel and obviously it's easy for me to say not being in your position, but I would do my best to try and keep things in perspective. Ultimately it's only wine, and you still have what's important in life - your family and your health.

Again, I know that's not what you want to hear....but it's the only thing that helps me in those types of scenarios.

Best of luck with some sort of resolution.
Rich - I completely agree! I made a decision 2 years ago to change careers. I chose a life to help people and to leave a lucrative career in finance to peruse a passion to help people. I went back to school and just graduated with a BSN degree Nursing. Specifically, in emergency medicine. I will be starting a new career as a nurse in a large hospital in the emergency department. After working in this space, it puts everything in perspective....specifically money and wine. Health, happiness are the most important things is life!

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#11 Post by Victor Hong » July 13th, 2018, 4:00 am

Todd, I am sorry for your loss.

As a friendly suggestion, you may wish not to assert publicly in writing that he is a criminal, until an official legal proceeding has formally indicated such. Otherwise, he might sue you for defamation. In that case, he probably would not win ultimately, but could still cause you meaningful additional headache and legal bills meanwhile......which you seem not to need atop the lost wine.

Also, you may wish to document exactly what wines you have received from the facility, especially if damaged, or replaced with cheaper ones. If the facility were to file bankruptcy within 90 days of delivery to you, their fair market value may be deemed a preference item, which you might then owe back to any such bankruptcy estate. You would hate to find that a bankruptcy filing asserts that you received back Clos de Papes 1998, and you actually got only Two-Buck Chuck 2017 instead, but are liable to return the value of the former.

These events really kill the joy of wine collecting.
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#13 Post by Rich Brown » July 13th, 2018, 8:25 am

Todd Laubach wrote:
Rich Brown wrote:Oh man, how terrible. I'm so sorry to hear that Todd. I can only imagine how you feel and obviously it's easy for me to say not being in your position, but I would do my best to try and keep things in perspective. Ultimately it's only wine, and you still have what's important in life - your family and your health.

Again, I know that's not what you want to hear....but it's the only thing that helps me in those types of scenarios.

Best of luck with some sort of resolution.
Rich - I completely agree! I made a decision 2 years ago to change careers. I chose a life to help people and to leave a lucrative career in finance to peruse a passion to help people. I went back to school and just graduated with a BSN degree Nursing. Specifically, in emergency medicine. I will be starting a new career as a nurse in a large hospital in the emergency department. After working in this space, it puts everything in perspective....specifically money and wine. Health, happiness are the most important things is life!
Love it man! This is without a doubt a really shitty situation and its unfortunate that there's people out there like this can actually treat other human beings this way, but I give you a ton of credit for staying positive and trying to keep things in perspective.

Really hope you get some resolution.....and that the scumbag running the busines/scam gets what's coming to him.

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#14 Post by Chris Blum » July 13th, 2018, 8:49 am

Todd Laubach wrote:
Rich - I completely agree! I made a decision 2 years ago to change careers. I chose a life to help people and to leave a lucrative career in finance to peruse a passion to help people. I went back to school and just graduated with a BSN degree Nursing. Specifically, in emergency medicine. I will be starting a new career as a nurse in a large hospital in the emergency department. After working in this space, it puts everything in perspective....specifically money and wine. Health, happiness are the most important things is life!
Todd, check your PM inbox from yesterday.
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#15 Post by Jay Miller » July 13th, 2018, 10:49 am

For what it's worth, my condolences and sympathy. A lousy thing to have happen.

If you're ever up in NYC let me know and I'd be happy to organize a dinner and open some nice wines for you. No need to reciprocate.
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#16 Post by Clayton Wai-Poi » July 13th, 2018, 11:55 am

I echo this... if you’re in Chicago I will rustle up some of the Rhys you lost to have a dinner.


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#18 Post by Bruce Leiser_owitz » July 23rd, 2018, 11:32 am

First, my sympathies for your situation. I hope you're able to get some recompense in some fashion.

Second, it reminds me of the infamous Mark Anderson/Vallejo wine storage theft incident detailed in this book:



Third, given these kinds of stories, I would be extremely reluctant to store my wines with any wine storage facility that has direct access to my wines. In my facility, the customer have their own lockers, and we put our own lock on our lockers. Theoretically, someone could still break into individual lockers, but it's more challenging to do.

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#19 Post by Dan Kravitz » July 23rd, 2018, 4:10 pm

Please keep us updated. Has any legal action (civil or criminal) been taken beyond what you described?

Thank you.

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#20 Post by Tim Heaton » July 23rd, 2018, 4:30 pm

Todd, very sorry to hear of your misfortune, and thank you for letting others know as soon as you were suspect.

Have you filled a personal property claim through your home/renters insurance carrier? If so, what was the written/formal disposition?

Your new career sounds great, all the best.
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#21 Post by A Laubach » July 25th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Tim Heaton wrote:Todd, very sorry to hear of your misfortune, and thank you for letting others know as soon as you were suspect.

Have you filled a personal property claim through your home/renters insurance carrier? If so, what was the written/formal disposition?

Your new career sounds great, all the best.
Todd's brother here and was also affected by this. In the process of the personal property claim. Quite a bit of paperwork that needs to be submitted, etc. so I have yet to get the point of formal disposition. Going and finding replacement value for my missing bottles was quite a task. Also in the past week there have been a few additional developments with this whole mess of a situation. Do not want to discuss publicly at this time but will have an update eventually.

I learned a few things through this whole process:

There must be a lot of don't ask / don't tell in the wine buying business. This guy sold millions of dollars of other people's wine and it appears some even reputable retailers didn't seem to think twice about buying it from the owner of a storage facility.

You can't over insure your collection. Keeping up to date values for replacement cost might be a chore, but it is worth it to ensure that you are entirely covered in the even of a loss. I know this sounds like common sense but in our busy lives we often don't think about spending time to make sure things like this are protected.

I am still upset about the loss, but in the end it is just wine. Health and happiness is much more important!
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#22 Post by Karl K » July 25th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Maybe an offline for the Laubachs?
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#23 Post by Randy Bowman » July 25th, 2018, 8:25 pm

It is unfortunate that this occurs but we've watched it happen again and again. Mare Island, Sausalito and in a small way, Amedeo in Napa in my area. The losses in the millions of dollars for many individuals and the collapse of several wineries. Investigation across multiple jurisdictions across the nation or world make it even tougher to come up with a prosecution in a timely fashion. Most of those we've seen involved in this type of criminal activity know their time is limited and set up ways to disperse the stolen money so it cannot be seized/located until the crook gets out of jail and needs his nest egg for the next con or comfortable retirement.

How many of you have wines stored at, for example, 55 degrees in St. Helena or off the other major storage facilities in another state than where you live? If it disappeared today, when do you think you would find out it's gone? Live inventory is when you look at it personally and hold it in your hand. Imagine storing wines at a facility for twenty years and you find out your oldest bottles are gone. The owner stole it and sold 6 years ago. The statute of limitations has expired, there will be no prosecution. Gather up all your spare cash and hire an attorney to go after the owner civilly and hope there's assets you can obtain.
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#24 Post by Victor Hong » July 26th, 2018, 3:24 am

Other than this thread, there seems almost no other complaint or allegation about this operator. I wonder if other customers are either unaware, or just staying quiet while pursuing recovery.

Below is a dead give-away that this operator was problematic, at outset.
Each customer releases the operator unconditionally of all loss liability, unless he or she signs up for a "coverage plan"----from the operator itself, conveniently. The Coverage fee is a flat $30 monthly, regardless of the total value covered, oddly enough, which sounds like a bargain for customers with big collections. However, a customer should thereby doubt if any storage operator is properly capitalized or licensed to sell property insurance. Upon a material loss, especially if operator-related theft, any claim would seem very unlikely to be paid. As another example of default correlation risk (like Negam-Aki), this would resemble buying travel-based life insurance from your current airplane pilot, who guarantees to pay your estate after he or she crashes.

http://safeharbourwinestorage.com/SAFE- ... TORAGE.pdf

".....Under the Basic Storage Plan, the Tenant hereby releases Safe Harbour Wine Storage, LLC and the landlord from any and all liability whatsoever for any loss or damage regardless of the cause thereof, to the wine stored. The Tenants wine is stored at the sole risk of loss or damage from any and all causes...........I agree that Safe Harbour Wine Storage, LLC., and the landlord will not be responsible for, and I hereby release Safe Harbour Wine Storage, LLC and the landlord from any liability for loss or damage to my wine while in their custody UNLESS I HAVE SIGNED ON THE PAGE MARKED ‘SCHEDULE B’ FOR THE PREMIUM COVERAGE PLAN OFFERED BY SAFE HARBOUR WINE STORAGE, LLC. ........"
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#25 Post by C h r i s t i n e Z u b r i s » July 26th, 2018, 6:16 am

Karl K wrote:Maybe an offline for the Laubachs?
I’d happily contribute to an offline.

On a side note, you’d think the book, The Grapes of Wrath, and the mess in Vallejo would create some kind of message of, “you are going to get caught” - that guy got 20+ years behind bars.
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#26 Post by Todd Laubach » July 29th, 2018, 7:23 pm

Thanks for all the kind words and support. I used to visit this board every day but I have hardly been on it since July 6th - the day we found out our wine was gone. It is quite shocking and we have found that many people have been affected. I wish someone would have posted 2 years ago when this all started....probably would have recovered a lot more of my wine and other people would have had a chance to get their wine back as well. I suspect Bill robbed Peter to pay Paul. I have learned he settled with AIG and at least one other client. I am sure our wine as well as others was used to pay those settlements as well to fund his lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am covered for very little....my policy only covers about 10-15% of the value of what I lost. Lesson learned although at this point it does not matter. I am going to stick to beer going forward.....best drunk fresh and you dont need to store it! I hope I can look up the SOB someday and find his inmate number in a federal penitentiary.

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#27 Post by c fu » July 29th, 2018, 8:22 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:It is unfortunate that this occurs but we've watched it happen again and again. Mare Island, Sausalito and in a small way, Amedeo in Napa in my area. The losses in the millions of dollars for many individuals and the collapse of several wineries. Investigation across multiple jurisdictions across the nation or world make it even tougher to come up with a prosecution in a timely fashion. Most of those we've seen involved in this type of criminal activity know their time is limited and set up ways to disperse the stolen money so it cannot be seized/located until the crook gets out of jail and needs his nest egg for the next con or comfortable retirement.

How many of you have wines stored at, for example, 55 degrees in St. Helena or off the other major storage facilities in another state than where you live? If it disappeared today, when do you think you would find out it's gone? Live inventory is when you look at it personally and hold it in your hand. Imagine storing wines at a facility for twenty years and you find out your oldest bottles are gone. The owner stole it and sold 6 years ago. The statute of limitations has expired, there will be no prosecution. Gather up all your spare cash and hire an attorney to go after the owner civilly and hope there's assets you can obtain.
the SOL of the theft doesn’t trigger until the owner of the good knows there was a theft or the authorities are made aware (whichever comes first)
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#28 Post by Randy Bowman » July 29th, 2018, 8:32 pm

Wish that worked as well as it was written. I've testified on a number of cases that didn't fly and testified on civil cases with a slightly higher success rate.
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#29 Post by c fu » July 29th, 2018, 8:39 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:Wish that worked as well as it was written. I've testified on a number of cases that didn't fly and testified on civil cases with a slightly higher success rate.
Did you testify that you knew about the theft earlier? Is that why it didn't work? [snort.gif] [snort.gif] [snort.gif]
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#30 Post by Chuck Miller » July 29th, 2018, 8:58 pm

Todd Laubach wrote:Thanks for all the kind words and support. I used to visit this board every day but I have hardly been on it since July 6th - the day we found out our wine was gone. It is quite shocking and we have found that many people have been affected. I wish someone would have posted 2 years ago when this all started....probably would have recovered a lot more of my wine and other people would have had a chance to get their wine back as well. I suspect Bill robbed Peter to pay Paul. I have learned he settled with AIG and at least one other client. I am sure our wine as well as others was used to pay those settlements as well to fund his lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am covered for very little....my policy only covers about 10-15% of the value of what I lost. Lesson learned although at this point it does not matter. I am going to stick to beer going forward.....best drunk fresh and you dont need to store it! I hope I can look up the SOB someday and find his inmate number in a federal penitentiary.
Boy, Todd, you seem to be giving up kind of easy. It may not be worth it to you to pursue this, and it may be that there is little left to recover, but if he used your or other people's wine to pay for the earlier settlements, I would think he is starting a new legal liability from a SOL perspective. Also, no matter what the contract says, he can’t waive liabilty for gross negligence. And outright theft or fraud perpetrated by one of the parties to the contract would seem to be unwaivable to me as a layman.

I am sorry for your loss, and willing to chip in some wine for an offline if things develop into one.
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#31 Post by Victor Hong » July 30th, 2018, 5:29 am

Todd Laubach wrote:Thanks for all the kind words and support. I used to visit this board every day but I have hardly been on it since July 6th - the day we found out our wine was gone. It is quite shocking and we have found that many people have been affected. I wish someone would have posted 2 years ago when this all started....probably would have recovered a lot more of my wine and other people would have had a chance to get their wine back as well. I suspect Bill robbed Peter to pay Paul. I have learned he settled with AIG and at least one other client. I am sure our wine as well as others was used to pay those settlements as well to fund his lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am covered for very little....my policy only covers about 10-15% of the value of what I lost. Lesson learned although at this point it does not matter. I am going to stick to beer going forward.....best drunk fresh and you dont need to store it! I hope I can look up the SOB someday and find his inmate number in a federal penitentiary.
Notifying the FBI, filing an insurance claim, and diligently documenting all communications would be wise, to achieve your wish.
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#32 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 30th, 2018, 5:33 am

c fu wrote:
Randy Bowman wrote:It is unfortunate that this occurs but we've watched it happen again and again. Mare Island, Sausalito and in a small way, Amedeo in Napa in my area. The losses in the millions of dollars for many individuals and the collapse of several wineries. Investigation across multiple jurisdictions across the nation or world make it even tougher to come up with a prosecution in a timely fashion. Most of those we've seen involved in this type of criminal activity know their time is limited and set up ways to disperse the stolen money so it cannot be seized/located until the crook gets out of jail and needs his nest egg for the next con or comfortable retirement.

How many of you have wines stored at, for example, 55 degrees in St. Helena or off the other major storage facilities in another state than where you live? If it disappeared today, when do you think you would find out it's gone? Live inventory is when you look at it personally and hold it in your hand. Imagine storing wines at a facility for twenty years and you find out your oldest bottles are gone. The owner stole it and sold 6 years ago. The statute of limitations has expired, there will be no prosecution. Gather up all your spare cash and hire an attorney to go after the owner civilly and hope there's assets you can obtain.
the SOL of the theft doesn’t trigger until the owner of the good knows there was a theft or the authorities are made aware (whichever comes first)
State law issue, I would think. This might not be the law in DC (MD, or VA).
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#33 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 30th, 2018, 5:38 am

Todd Laubach wrote:Thanks for all the kind words and support. I used to visit this board every day but I have hardly been on it since July 6th - the day we found out our wine was gone. It is quite shocking and we have found that many people have been affected. I wish someone would have posted 2 years ago when this all started....probably would have recovered a lot more of my wine and other people would have had a chance to get their wine back as well. I suspect Bill robbed Peter to pay Paul. I have learned he settled with AIG and at least one other client. I am sure our wine as well as others was used to pay those settlements as well to fund his lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am covered for very little....my policy only covers about 10-15% of the value of what I lost. Lesson learned although at this point it does not matter. I am going to stick to beer going forward.....best drunk fresh and you dont need to store it! I hope I can look up the SOB someday and find his inmate number in a federal penitentiary.
I've learned many things from this board, but one painful lesson reinforced by what you read here is that you have to be very skeptical and to a degree distrustful of anyone you give your money or your wine to. Not news, but still. Since the PC debacle, I have limited my spend with any one retailer and am happy to keep all my wine at home once delivered. Easier for me to do now that I no longer am buying futures but I still watch what I have awaiting delivery so that if the retailer craters or skips off to Bimini with my money, the pain won't be too great. I recognize that some have no alternatives, and I am not "blaming he victim," just acknowledging the painful reality
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#34 Post by Mattstolz » July 30th, 2018, 5:48 am

so sorry to hear that this has happened. i wanna echo others in saying if you are ever near me in upstate SC let me know and we can find some fun bottles to open, my treat.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#35 Post by c fu » July 30th, 2018, 12:03 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
c fu wrote:
Randy Bowman wrote:It is unfortunate that this occurs but we've watched it happen again and again. Mare Island, Sausalito and in a small way, Amedeo in Napa in my area. The losses in the millions of dollars for many individuals and the collapse of several wineries. Investigation across multiple jurisdictions across the nation or world make it even tougher to come up with a prosecution in a timely fashion. Most of those we've seen involved in this type of criminal activity know their time is limited and set up ways to disperse the stolen money so it cannot be seized/located until the crook gets out of jail and needs his nest egg for the next con or comfortable retirement.

How many of you have wines stored at, for example, 55 degrees in St. Helena or off the other major storage facilities in another state than where you live? If it disappeared today, when do you think you would find out it's gone? Live inventory is when you look at it personally and hold it in your hand. Imagine storing wines at a facility for twenty years and you find out your oldest bottles are gone. The owner stole it and sold 6 years ago. The statute of limitations has expired, there will be no prosecution. Gather up all your spare cash and hire an attorney to go after the owner civilly and hope there's assets you can obtain.
the SOL of the theft doesn’t trigger until the owner of the good knows there was a theft or the authorities are made aware (whichever comes first)
State law issue, I would think. This might not be the law in DC (MD, or VA).
definitely, was just replying to Randy as he mentioned St Helena and I know he's in CA.
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#36 Post by Todd Laubach » July 31st, 2018, 4:55 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
Todd Laubach wrote:Thanks for all the kind words and support. I used to visit this board every day but I have hardly been on it since July 6th - the day we found out our wine was gone. It is quite shocking and we have found that many people have been affected. I wish someone would have posted 2 years ago when this all started....probably would have recovered a lot more of my wine and other people would have had a chance to get their wine back as well. I suspect Bill robbed Peter to pay Paul. I have learned he settled with AIG and at least one other client. I am sure our wine as well as others was used to pay those settlements as well to fund his lifestyle.

Unfortunately, I am covered for very little....my policy only covers about 10-15% of the value of what I lost. Lesson learned although at this point it does not matter. I am going to stick to beer going forward.....best drunk fresh and you dont need to store it! I hope I can look up the SOB someday and find his inmate number in a federal penitentiary.
Notifying the FBI, filing an insurance claim, and diligently documenting all communications would be wise, to achieve your wish.
Lets just say Billy has been up and close with the FBI since the beginning of May. Law enforcement has been aware for awhile.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#37 Post by Todd Laubach » July 31st, 2018, 4:56 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
c fu wrote:
Randy Bowman wrote:It is unfortunate that this occurs but we've watched it happen again and again. Mare Island, Sausalito and in a small way, Amedeo in Napa in my area. The losses in the millions of dollars for many individuals and the collapse of several wineries. Investigation across multiple jurisdictions across the nation or world make it even tougher to come up with a prosecution in a timely fashion. Most of those we've seen involved in this type of criminal activity know their time is limited and set up ways to disperse the stolen money so it cannot be seized/located until the crook gets out of jail and needs his nest egg for the next con or comfortable retirement.

How many of you have wines stored at, for example, 55 degrees in St. Helena or off the other major storage facilities in another state than where you live? If it disappeared today, when do you think you would find out it's gone? Live inventory is when you look at it personally and hold it in your hand. Imagine storing wines at a facility for twenty years and you find out your oldest bottles are gone. The owner stole it and sold 6 years ago. The statute of limitations has expired, there will be no prosecution. Gather up all your spare cash and hire an attorney to go after the owner civilly and hope there's assets you can obtain.
the SOL of the theft doesn’t trigger until the owner of the good knows there was a theft or the authorities are made aware (whichever comes first)
State law issue, I would think. This might not be the law in DC (MD, or VA).
Federal law once it has been sold all across the United States to many reputable retailers....you all would be surprised.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#38 Post by Russell A » August 7th, 2018, 6:06 pm

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#39 Post by Todd Laubach » August 10th, 2018, 9:30 pm

Anyone that still has wine with Safe Harbour / Bill Holder should contact me via PM and I will put you in touch with the appropriate person at the FBI. I couple of people have contacted me and have spoken with authorities. It keeps getting more and more interesting by the day.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#40 Post by Arv R » August 11th, 2018, 8:30 am

Why would anyone who has seen this thread still have anything (theoretically) stored at this place?
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#41 Post by John Morris » August 11th, 2018, 8:46 am

Todd Laubach wrote:
Neal.Mollen wrote:
c fu wrote: the SOL of the theft doesn’t trigger until the owner of the good knows there was a theft or the authorities are made aware (whichever comes first)
State law issue, I would think. This might not be the law in DC (MD, or VA).
Federal law once it has been sold all across the United States to many reputable retailers....you all would be surprised.
I assume Neal was talking about the statute of limitations. I'm not sure about criminal law, but in civil suits, federal fraud statutes (e.g., securities fraud) incorporate state SOLs as I recall (from many, many years ago). So a civil securities action brought in federal court involving fraud in NY will incorporate NY state's six-year SOL, while a federal suit involving fraud in another state could have a shorter SOL.

It's stuff like this that keeps law professors occupied. I remember it because of a case where the partner I worked for sent our client a framed copy of the NY six-year SOL when the six years had run on possible claims against him. [wink.gif]
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#42 Post by David Glasser » August 11th, 2018, 12:13 pm

To this non-lawyer, SOL takes on an entirely different meaning in the context of this thread.

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#43 Post by Victor Hong » August 11th, 2018, 2:36 pm

David Glasser wrote:To this non-lawyer, SOL takes on an entirely different meaning in the context of this thread.
After a certain date, depending upon state or federal jurisdictions, the meaning of SOL changes from legal to vernacular.
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#44 Post by John Morris » August 11th, 2018, 2:39 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
David Glasser wrote:To this non-lawyer, SOL takes on an entirely different meaning in the context of this thread.
After a certain date, depending upon state or federal jurisdictions, the meaning of SOL changes from legal to vernacular.
Or, rather, the two merge.
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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#45 Post by JFertitta » August 11th, 2018, 3:32 pm

Hey Todd - just read this for the first time. I’m in Baltimore so whenever you want to share a bottle, let me know. In case you’ve switched over to only beer, one of my good friends is the head brewer at Peabody Heights and I can hook you up.
Jeff

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Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#46 Post by Victor Hong » August 11th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Arv R wrote:Why would anyone who has seen this thread still have anything (theoretically) stored at this place?
Free long-term storage, like at Premier Cru?
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Re: Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#47 Post by Todd Laubach » August 15th, 2018, 7:00 am

Victor Hong wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 8:01 pm
Arv R wrote:Why would anyone who has seen this thread still have anything (theoretically) stored at this place?
Free long-term storage, like at Premier Cru?
I think the only people that still have wine stored at Safe Harbour are people that have not been able to get their wine out. I have spoken to a number of people that have recently gotten access by someone other than Bill Holder and what they are finding - pallets of their wine boxes shrink wrapped. When they have opened them there is nothing in them. We are talking cases of 1st growths, etc that people have been storing with Bill for years before he started his criminal activity a couple of years ago. He had operated a viable and legitimate business for 20+ years before his criminal activity. The gig is up with Bill and the end is near. People that think they have wine left there will find out that nothing is left.

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Re: Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#48 Post by G. Bienstock » August 15th, 2018, 7:36 am

What a maggot.
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Re: Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#49 Post by Mark Fister » August 15th, 2018, 5:25 pm

Clayton Wai-Poi wrote:
July 13th, 2018, 11:55 am
I echo this... if you’re in Chicago I will rustle up some of the Rhys you lost to have a dinner.
I will also contribute bottles gratis for a dinner if you come to Chicago or find yourself passing through...

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Re: Update: Safe Harbour Wine Storage and Bill Holder – CRIMINAL

#50 Post by Russell A » August 16th, 2018, 5:21 am

Todd Laubach wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 7:00 am
Victor Hong wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 8:01 pm
Arv R wrote:Why would anyone who has seen this thread still have anything (theoretically) stored at this place?
Free long-term storage, like at Premier Cru?
I think the only people that still have wine stored at Safe Harbour are people that have not been able to get their wine out. I have spoken to a number of people that have recently gotten access by someone other than Bill Holder and what they are finding - pallets of their wine boxes shrink wrapped. When they have opened them there is nothing in them. We are talking cases of 1st growths, etc that people have been storing with Bill for years before he started his criminal activity a couple of years ago. He had operated a viable and legitimate business for 20+ years before his criminal activity. The gig is up with Bill and the end is near. People that think they have wine left there will find out that nothing is left.
As Todd has stated, none of Bills wrong doings has shown up until a couple of months ago for some of us. Yes I'm included in this, but not giving any details for now. But I will say that if you or anyone you know has wine stored there, you should do what ever is needed to get it out.......If it is there
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