UPS Really Sucks and should never be used to ship wine!

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J a y H a c k
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#1 Post by J a y H a c k » July 3rd, 2018, 11:46 am

Please join my UPS boycott. They stink and they absolutely refuse to be of any assistance even when they are told that they screwed up.

It's hot outside so I arranged for a wine shipment overnight by UPS so the temps would not damage it. BUT instead of getting it to me overnight, UPS "forgot" (their own term) the package in Kentucky and rescheduled the package for delivery the next business day. I was advised of this by email at 11:58 this morning, although UPS's tracking information stated that they had rescheduled the delivery at 7:30 am due to "operating conditions" (I guess that's their corpspeak euphemism for "we forgot"). By 12:15 pm, I was on the phone with someone complaining, who spoke with such a thick southern Asian accent that I could barely understand her. They said I would get a call back from customer service within an hour.

Having heard nothing in 90 minutes, I called a second time. They claimed to have no record of my first call and despite speaking first to someone in Asia for whom English was a distant second language at best and then to a supervisor after a long wait who seemed more conversant in the language of the shipper and the recipient, I was told that there was nothing that they could do - - - which is another euphemism for "there's nothing that we will do for you because it is cheaper for us not to have appropriate backups in place to deal with the occasional and screw an occasional customer than to actually function in a responsible manner." After giving them fair warning that I would make this post, I heard more corporate speak about logistics companies that occasionally make mistakes but that the complaint had to come from the shipper not the recipient (I had already alerted them but that's not going to do any good because UPS is not going to do anything for them either).

You see, it's just too expensive for us to have warehouses that protect the contents of shipments that would be destroyed by heat or cold when we screw up.

Yes, I know, I should have asked the winery to hold the shipment until November to reduce the risk, a mistake I will not make again, but I will also not make the mistake of ever voluntarily using UPS again. Please join me in that effort.
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#2 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 3rd, 2018, 11:57 am

Nah. The alternatives (USPS and FedEx) are not better. Stories like this are legion for all 3. Sorry about this incident though.
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#3 Post by Chuck Miller » July 3rd, 2018, 12:02 pm

Not too many complaints out there about USPS wine shipments, as it is against the law to ship alcohol via USPS!
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#4 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 3rd, 2018, 12:08 pm

FedEx cooked a bunch of my 2014 Hudelot-Noellot Burgundies a couple of years ago through their own delays, so it's not like they are any better.
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#5 Post by NED VALOIS » July 3rd, 2018, 12:11 pm

UPS in Miami, Is the BIG BROWN OVEN !
I always prefer Fed Ex and have the item deliver to the local Fed Ex store, so NO WAITIE for Me !

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#6 Post by Paul Jaouen » July 3rd, 2018, 12:19 pm

Says it all: "Yes, I know, I should have asked the winery to hold the shipment until November to reduce the risk, a mistake I will not make again"

It is too hot for even overnight shipping!
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#7 Post by mmarcellus » July 3rd, 2018, 12:20 pm

Some day, Amazon will decide they are ready to get into the wine shipping business. Until then, there's no hope.
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#8 Post by c fu » July 3rd, 2018, 12:24 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:After giving them fair warning that I would make this post, I heard more corporate speak about logistics companies that occasionally make mistakes but that the complaint had to come from the shipper not the recipient
Damn did UPS corporate reach out to you to apologize after reading this post? Maybe send a gift basket?

Shipping mistakes happen unfortunately, hopefully the winery can claim insurance on it.
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#9 Post by Marc Breitenmoser » July 3rd, 2018, 12:31 pm

Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
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#10 Post by Ian Dorin » July 3rd, 2018, 12:33 pm

mmarcellus wrote:Some day, Amazon will decide they are ready to get into the wine shipping business. Until then, there's no hope.
After a limited attempt to get in to the wine business, they left it to others to post their wines and handle the shipping.

My understanding was they struggled with the logistics. Taking a single bottle and shipping it was costly on all kinds of levels, and they could not figure out a good way to drop the costs to a level they could live with.

Shipping wine is pricey. Between labor, weight and all the little variables, it's just not something that Amazon can figure out better than those who already do it.
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#11 Post by c fu » July 3rd, 2018, 12:33 pm

Marc Breitenmoser wrote:Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
they must have said ya'll a lot
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#12 Post by Marc Breitenmoser » July 3rd, 2018, 12:34 pm

Like a troll asking for private aviation services on commercial cheap a$$ tickets [bleh.gif]
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#13 Post by Jorge Henriquez » July 3rd, 2018, 12:34 pm

Marc Breitenmoser wrote:Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
Like a fine-tuned palate, a fine-tuned ear is able to pick up the nuances between Southern, Northern and Western Asian accents.

Easter Asian is a redundancy so it doesn’t exist.
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#14 Post by mmarcellus » July 3rd, 2018, 1:01 pm

Ian Dorin wrote:
mmarcellus wrote:Some day, Amazon will decide they are ready to get into the wine shipping business. Until then, there's no hope.
After a limited attempt to get in to the wine business, they left it to others to post their wines and handle the shipping.

My understanding was they struggled with the logistics. Taking a single bottle and shipping it was costly on all kinds of levels, and they could not figure out a good way to drop the costs to a level they could live with.

Shipping wine is pricey. Between labor, weight and all the little variables, it's just not something that Amazon can figure out better than those who already do it.
They weren't ready, but some day they can be if they want to be. They are in the process of starting their own shipping service. It's entirely possible they could use Whole Foods as a package pickup location just as FedEx uses Kinko's. They could buy, or partner with, existing distributors. Amazon seems to want to eventually be everything to everybody. I think it's more likely than not that they will get to selling alcohol products sooner or later. Though it may not happen until some time after they open their first warehouse on Mars. (Mars logistics are easier because there's less regulation [wink.gif] ).
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#15 Post by Brian Tuite » July 3rd, 2018, 1:06 pm

Jorge Henriquez wrote:
Marc Breitenmoser wrote:Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
Like a fine-tuned palate, a fine-tuned ear is able to pick up the nuances between Southern, Northern and Western Asian accents.

Easter Asian is a redundancy so it doesn’t exist.
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#16 Post by Matthew King » July 3rd, 2018, 1:17 pm

c fu wrote:
Marc Breitenmoser wrote:Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
they must have said ya'll a lot
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#17 Post by David Glasser » July 3rd, 2018, 4:46 pm

mmarcellus wrote:Some day, Amazon will decide they are ready to get into the wine shipping business. Until then, there's no hope.
Bezos is too smart to get mixed up with the likes of us. ;)

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#18 Post by Carlos Delpin » July 3rd, 2018, 6:19 pm

And you all don’t have to deal with having big ocean water in between...

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#19 Post by Brad Kane » July 3rd, 2018, 7:10 pm

Jay, it's the Summer and we're in the middle of a heat wave and you're shipping wine? Sorry, dude. That's just silly, even if it is overnight. Too many things can go wrong as you've now learned and, frankly, should've known. You're a smart guy. Really surprised you took the risk.
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#20 Post by Victor Hong » July 3rd, 2018, 7:22 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:Please join my UPS boycott. They stink and they absolutely refuse to be of any assistance even when they are told that they screwed up.

It's hot outside so I arranged for a wine shipment overnight by UPS so the temps would not damage it. BUT instead of getting it to me overnight, UPS "forgot" (their own term) the package in Kentucky and rescheduled the package for delivery the next business day. I was advised of this by email at 11:58 this morning, although UPS's tracking information stated that they had rescheduled the delivery at 7:30 am due to "operating conditions" (I guess that's their corpspeak euphemism for "we forgot"). By 12:15 pm, I was on the phone with someone complaining, who spoke with such a thick southern Asian accent that I could barely understand her. They said I would get a call back from customer service within an hour.

Having heard nothing in 90 minutes, I called a second time. They claimed to have no record of my first call and despite speaking first to someone in Asia for whom English was a distant second language at best and then to a supervisor after a long wait who seemed more conversant in the language of the shipper and the recipient, I was told that there was nothing that they could do - - - which is another euphemism for "there's nothing that we will do for you because it is cheaper for us not to have appropriate backups in place to deal with the occasional and screw an occasional customer than to actually function in a responsible manner." After giving them fair warning that I would make this post, I heard more corporate speak about logistics companies that occasionally make mistakes but that the complaint had to come from the shipper not the recipient (I had already alerted them but that's not going to do any good because UPS is not going to do anything for them either).

You see, it's just too expensive for us to have warehouses that protect the contents of shipments that would be destroyed by heat or cold when we screw up.

Yes, I know, I should have asked the winery to hold the shipment until November to reduce the risk, a mistake I will not make again, but I will also not make the mistake of ever voluntarily using UPS again. Please join me in that effort.
You should have conference-called me, for translation. I am Chinese, and was born in rural Arkansas, making me able to understand Southern Asian.
Oh, wait,.......
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#21 Post by Victor Hong » July 3rd, 2018, 7:27 pm

Last week, my relatives in China called Fedex customer service about a lost package, but they could barely understand the call-center MAGA redneck on the other end of the phone.
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#22 Post by Anton D » July 3rd, 2018, 7:33 pm

I think Jay should lawyer up!
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#23 Post by J a y H a c k » July 3rd, 2018, 8:12 pm

Marc Breitenmoser wrote:Deep southern Asian accent? Wtf?
If you cannot tell the difference between southern Indian accented English and northern Indian accented English, you should pay more attention, or get out more. It is quite obvious. My guess is that she was from Chennai or, if answering from one of the Mumbai call centers, was a transplant from the south.
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#24 Post by Randy Bowman » July 3rd, 2018, 8:18 pm

HELLO,

1. You do not ship your $200.00 per bottle case of wine ground in the middle of the summer or winter.
2. You have to be home to accept shipment or ship to a business where deliveries are early.
3. UPS is great here while FedEx sucks and vice versa. It's your delivery person, not the company.
4. I'll ship your wine FedEx ground for $75.00 or $70.00 UPS.

Who do you want to deliver your wine? You know who your delivery people are and what your relationship is with them. We have customers who provide keys to their delivery person so the wine is delivered and secured.
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#25 Post by Albert R » July 3rd, 2018, 8:26 pm

NED VALOIS wrote:UPS in Miami, Is the BIG BROWN OVEN !
I always prefer Fed Ex and have the item deliver to the local Fed Ex store, so NO WAITIE for Me !

AGREE 100%! UPS_ _ _! They suck in South Florida. I just wish most wineries would give you the option to choose...... I am 99% FedEx or no sale. Some of our regular/board favorite winery owners should take note.......
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#26 Post by Albert R » July 3rd, 2018, 8:30 pm

Randy Bowman wrote:HELLO,

1. You do not ship your $200.00 per bottle case of wine ground in the middle of the summer or winter.
2. You have to be home to accept shipment or ship to a business where deliveries are early.
3. UPS is great here while FedEx sucks and vice versa. It's your delivery person, not the company.
4. I'll ship your wine FedEx ground for $75.00 or $70.00 UPS.

Who do you want to deliver your wine? You know who your delivery people are and what your relationship is with them. We have customers who provide keys to their delivery person so the wine is delivered and secured.
I'll pay the $5 all day long for FedEx in South Florida....... Some wineries for several reasons won't give you the option....... [snort.gif] pileon
Cheers,

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#27 Post by Randy Bowman » July 3rd, 2018, 8:39 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
J a y H a c k wrote:Please join my UPS boycott. They stink and they absolutely refuse to be of any assistance even when they are told that they screwed up.

It's hot outside so I arranged for a wine shipment overnight by UPS so the temps would not damage it. BUT instead of getting it to me overnight, UPS "forgot" (their own term) the package in Kentucky and rescheduled the package for delivery the next business day. I was advised of this by email at 11:58 this morning, although UPS's tracking information stated that they had rescheduled the delivery at 7:30 am due to "operating conditions" (I guess that's their corpspeak euphemism for "we forgot"). By 12:15 pm, I was on the phone with someone complaining, who spoke with such a thick southern Asian accent that I could barely understand her. They said I would get a call back from customer service within an hour.

Having heard nothing in 90 minutes, I called a second time. They claimed to have no record of my first call and despite speaking first to someone in Asia for whom English was a distant second language at best and then to a supervisor after a long wait who seemed more conversant in the language of the shipper and the recipient, I was told that there was nothing that they could do - - - which is another euphemism for "there's nothing that we will do for you because it is cheaper for us not to have appropriate backups in place to deal with the occasional and screw an occasional customer than to actually function in a responsible manner." After giving them fair warning that I would make this post, I heard more corporate speak about logistics companies that occasionally make mistakes but that the complaint had to come from the shipper not the recipient (I had already alerted them but that's not going to do any good because UPS is not going to do anything for them either).

You see, it's just too expensive for us to have warehouses that protect the contents of shipments that would be destroyed by heat or cold when we screw up.

Yes, I know, I should have asked the winery to hold the shipment until November to reduce the risk, a mistake I will not make again, but I will also not make the mistake of ever voluntarily using UPS again. Please join me in that effort.
You should have conference-called me, for translation. I am Chinese, and was born in rural Arkansas, making me able to understand Southern Asian.
Oh, wait,.......
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#28 Post by Markus S » July 4th, 2018, 6:19 am

Question for you: WHY are you even shipping in 90-100 degree heat??? [wow.gif]

I don't care if it's "overnight", as supply chains and logistics are not perfect instruments.
And isn't there enough wine in your massive cellar to not need something "right this instance"?
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#29 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 4th, 2018, 6:26 am

Markus S wrote:Question for you: WHY are you even shipping in 90-100 degree heat??? [wow.gif]

I don't care if it's "overnight", as supply chains and logistics are not perfect instruments.
And isn't there enough wine in your massive cellar to not need something "right this instance"?
C'mon, man!
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#30 Post by Bob Davis » July 4th, 2018, 6:27 am

Shipping in the middle of summer was why I dropped the Jaffurs wine club a long time ago.
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#31 Post by ClarkstonMark » July 4th, 2018, 6:47 am

Shipping wine on Monday when the 4th of July is Wednesday is crazy.
Jay - when you write the CEO of UPS an email, ask them how many workers took vacation this week, and how many called in sick?
But I am guessing you had a reason why you wanted the wine yesterday, and I am curious what that reason was. Did you need it for a 4th of July tasting?
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#32 Post by Michae1 P0wers » July 4th, 2018, 6:57 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:Nah. The alternatives (USPS and FedEx) are not better. Stories like this are legion for all 3. Sorry about this incident though.
This.

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#33 Post by John Davis » July 4th, 2018, 7:19 am

I think most of us have a shipping nightmare-esque story. My issues in the past have been with FedEx but I believe there are likely local differences. And as said before, often it is the driver and not the company. After digging in to it a bit, I found out my repeated FedEx issues were entirely the driver’s fault. Of course, I got that from someone at the local Kinko’s as FedEx customer service obviously didn’t give a .......

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#34 Post by J a y H a c k » July 4th, 2018, 7:24 am

ClarkstonMark wrote:Shipping wine on Monday when the 4th of July is Wednesday is crazy.
Jay - when you write the CEO of UPS an email, ask them how many workers took vacation this week, and how many called in sick?
But I am guessing you had a reason why you wanted the wine yesterday, and I am curious what that reason was. Did you need it for a 4th of July tasting?
No, it was just not my best decision, but it is my wife's favorite and her birthday is Friday so I tried to get It. It was also not $200 a bottle wine. Im not that stupid.

Yes, I shipped to a business. My issue is that they said that they just "forgot" to put the wine in a container some time between 3 am and 730 am and they made no effort to correct the error. I doubt my box was the only one they forgot. They made no effort to correct the error. If that was a winery, we would be all over them for bad customer service, but when it comes to mega multi ultra Corp, everyone blames the customer.

PS. - Victor: South Asia is not China. It is India, Sri Lanka, etc.
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#35 Post by Victor Hong » July 4th, 2018, 7:27 am

I know. It was a joke.
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#36 Post by Tom G l a s g o w » July 4th, 2018, 7:29 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
ClarkstonMark wrote:Shipping wine on Monday when the 4th of July is Wednesday is crazy.
Jay - when you write the CEO of UPS an email, ask them how many workers took vacation this week, and how many called in sick?
But I am guessing you had a reason why you wanted the wine yesterday, and I am curious what that reason was. Did you need it for a 4th of July tasting?
No, it was just not my best decision, but it is my wife's favorite and her birthday is Friday so I tried to get It. It was also not $200 a bottle wine. Im not that stupid.

Yes, I shipped to a business. My issue is that they said that they just "forgot" to put the wine in a container some time between 3 am and 730 am and they made no effort to correct the error. I doubt my box was the only one they forgot. They made no effort to correct the error. If that was a winery, we would be all over them for bad customer service, but when it comes to mega multi ultra Corp, everyone blames the customer.

PS. - Victor: South Asia is not China. It is India, Sri Lanka, etc.
you just realized your wife’s birthday was approaching? Speaking of which I’d better get to the card store quick, wife’s bday is Saturday.

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#37 Post by Victor Hong » July 4th, 2018, 7:30 am

You are lucky that UPS did not destroy the evidence.
Oh, wait, different company....
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#38 Post by Todd Hamina » July 4th, 2018, 7:31 am

June to September, no shipping.
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#39 Post by Brian Tuite » July 4th, 2018, 8:01 am

When absolutely positively as to be there overnight the clear choice is FedEx. No matter what, you will receive your delivery.
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Didn’t spill a drop!
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CSI ready
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#40 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 4th, 2018, 8:39 am

Albert R wrote: AGREE 100%! UPS_ _ _! They suck in South Florida. I just wish most wineries would give you the option to choose...... I am 99% FedEx or no sale. Some of our regular/board favorite winery owners should take note.......
I've dropped over half the wineries I was buying from that use FedEx. Too many issues. Too many hassles.

It's a rotten choice no matter what.
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#41 Post by Bruce Leiser_owitz » July 4th, 2018, 9:36 am

I've generally had better luck here in LA with FedEx than with UPS. But one reason is that I can have packages delivered to the FedEx Office just a few blocks from me. With UPS, I have to be home to ensure delivery. Otherwise, it gets a "free ride" on the non air-conditioned UPS truck for at least another day.

But where there is a problem or question, I've found FedEx vastly superior to UPS. I had a shipment via UPS some months ago where EVERY time I called or checked the website, I got a different story about what was going on. No one appears to be in charge........

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#42 Post by Chris Seiber » July 4th, 2018, 9:39 am

In fairness, you think of the insane scope of what those companies do, it’s impossible they won’t make the occasional mistake. I think you just have to consider it a small but unavoidable risk.

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#43 Post by larry schaffer » July 4th, 2018, 9:56 am

My guess is that if you ask the wineries, they might be able to ship via either UPS or FedEx - your choice. I know that I generally can, except to a handful of states. Therefore, if you have a preference, you might be able to gain at least a bit of control.

That said, this thread could be altered as such:

'XXXX Shipping Company' Really Sucks . . . .

None of them are 'perfect', and as others have pointed out, with the scope of products that they handle, they generally do a good job. Wine is not a normal shipment for them because of potential temperature issues, but they don't necessarily comprehend this all of the time - since they are generally not faced with these same issues with most of their packages. Heck, wine is just a challenging product to ship and keep cool. Period . . .

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#44 Post by Sean_S » July 4th, 2018, 10:08 am

Bruce Leiser_owitz wrote:I've generally had better luck here in LA with FedEx than with UPS. But one reason is that I can have packages delivered to the FedEx Office just a few blocks from me. With UPS, I have to be home to ensure delivery. Otherwise, it gets a "free ride" on the non air-conditioned UPS truck for at least another day.

But where there is a problem or question, I've found FedEx vastly superior to UPS. I had a shipment via UPS some months ago where EVERY time I called or checked the website, I got a different story about what was going on. No one appears to be in charge........

Bruce
This is exactly why fedex is better for me. Re-directing any package to my local 24Hr Fedex kinkos is painless. Redirecting UPS is much more complicated and has shown to be far less reliable. Even though I deliver wine to work and we have a recptionist it still gets 2nd chanced like 1/2 the time. With Fedex this is never an issue. Always reliably delivered to local store. Both treat you like crap when something goes wrong but I have much better luck with Fedex with things going right.
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#45 Post by ericleehall » July 4th, 2018, 10:13 am

mmarcellus wrote:Some day, Amazon will decide they are ready to get into the wine shipping business. Until then, there's no hope.
Perhaps sooner than you think!

Amazon is launching its own delivery service to compete with UPS and FedEx

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-l ... dex-2018-2
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#46 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » July 4th, 2018, 10:14 am

I work 1 mile from a major UPS depot. Easy pick up.

I can get my FedEx stuff at a local Walgreen's now, but the folks at Walgreen's are sketchy at best in terms of controlling the packages.
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#47 Post by Brian Tuite » July 4th, 2018, 10:48 am

Chris Seiber wrote:In fairness, you think of the insane scope of what those companies do, it’s impossible they won’t make the occasional mistake. I think you just have to consider it a small but unavoidable risk.
^ ^ This ^ ^
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#48 Post by Victor Hong » July 4th, 2018, 11:02 am

Maybe those South Asians are used to hot weather. pileon
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#49 Post by Siun o'Connell » July 4th, 2018, 11:21 am

Isn't the issue not if these companies will sometimes make a mistake but how they respond when they do make that mistake? They use their size and market control as an excuse to have virtually no customer service.

At least with Amazon when I've had an issue, they do a fast refund and apology. UPS/FedEx could learn from them ... a lot.

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#50 Post by J a y H a c k » July 4th, 2018, 12:20 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:In fairness, you think of the insane scope of what those companies do, it’s impossible they won’t make the occasional mistake. I think you just have to consider it a small but unavoidable risk.
Another apologist. Let me repeat myself. The issue is not the initial screw up. The issue is their failure to make any effort, either corporately across the board or in an individual case, to mitigate damage from the error by providing a backup system. Their approach is simply - too bad on you, we'll bring it to you the next business day.
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