2015 White Burgundy

Last night I went to a dinner at Atlas.
Bob Conrad and Michael Bowden organized.
Erwan Faiveley was the star guest.

Allen Meadows flew in from California also.
A big contingent of NY Tastevin members and Cleveland Tastevin members.

We had fun. Notes to come and a big vertical of Clos des Cortons today.

Erwan and I had a very nice discussion about the 2015 whites in Burgundy.
He is a big fan. So am I. Like the 2012 vintage that is now focusing and starting to show the true colors,
2015 has plenty of backbone and acid to go with the riper fruit. With a little time, he feels this will be a special vintage.
It is also a clean vintage with the best producers. No botrytis.
Erwan feels it will be one of the most ageworthy vintages.

I have more than a few friends who think 2012 and 2015 whites are too flabby. Not me. My 12s are starting to sing and only going to get better.

What do you think?

I think that so far I like the 2014s better than any other recent vintage in white Burgundy. There has not been a vintage lately where good producers have not made good wines, but the vintage that has stood out to me has been 2014.

It would not shock me if the 2015s turn out to be like 2009s, where some producers like Ramonet have made very excellent wines.

Howard. Erwan thinks that 2015 will outlive 2014. I love the 2014s right now. They will age great for the short term. Long term I don’t know. 2010 is my favorite right now but 2014 is right there.

Erwan feels these denser years like 2009/2012/2015 and even 2003 are going to become wonderful aged white burgundy.

I only have my own experience. 2007/2008 are having serious issues already but the riper years like 2003 and 2006 have little issues. Same with 2009. It is an interesting thought experiment.

I don’t know why a year with more fruit density would age better than a year with less ripe fruit and higher perceived acidity. ( I put perceived here because some years like 2015 have quite good acidity.)

Right now, I rarely age white Burgundy more than a few years because of premox. I don’t have that much confidence that any vintage is going to become wonderful aged white Burgundy. That saying, I have had a wonderful 2007 (Bouchard Meursault Perrieres) and 2008 (HAG Meursault Charmes) this year, so who knows.

Did he say anything about 2016s?

Yes. I am not sure he is a big fan of the whites in the Cote de Beaune. He loves the reds from this vintage. I can’t remember specifics however. I love the fact that he isn’t making a sales pitch but giving his take and information. A very thoughtful man.

I had a 2009 Leflaive Puligny-Montrachet Folitieres last Wednesday. Delicious!

Don , I think a mlot of the 2015’s are too flabby to be called great as an overall vintage statement . They lack minerality and freshness .( Last week , I had a Ramonet Chassagne les Ruchottes which was nice but nothing special , fully ready and plump .) It’s hard to understand Erwan’s point of view . I was also quite disappointed with Coche Dury’s 2015 wines. But at other places , I did like them ( Henri Boillot , Lamy Caillat , Comte Lafon for example )
That does not mean 2015 will not age . Some 2003’s are aging nicely but I still don’t like them
2008 and 2014 are the best vintages imho , that does not mean they will not premox unfortunately .

It’s sad that some of us no longer want to age the best white Burgundies . The 1986 Chevalier Montrachet from leflaive I had this week proves my point : the wine was fantastic with at least 1 or 2 decades aging potential .

15 whites are tightening up and showing more focus and less alcohol, IMO. Still prefer 14, no decision re 16 yet.

Erwan’s point of view may be colored by the fact that he might still have 15s to sell, as viewed through my jaded eyes.

Another fan of 2014 for white burg. I lhave not had a bad one yet. Even the bourgogne blancs are amazing.

I heard comparisons of 2015 to 1985 white burgs, which evolved well over a couple decades. Also some producers have said that they prefer 15s to 14s. I guess we’ll have to see in a few years.

Don C. - I had a '12 Bouchard Meursault Perrieres last night - delicious.

Interesting topic Don.

I’m another huge fan of 2014 whites and went long on them. Having tasted 2015 reds in barrel, to be honest, I didn’t expect much of the 2015 white vintage. Drinking some 2015s and attending tastings more recently (eg Chartrons, Girardin, PYCM etc) I have however been surprised by the quality of white '15s and the freshness retained.

I’ve loved some 2007 and 2008 WBs of late but worry that my 2010s may be prematurely advancing …

I need to try a few more but I’d be surprised if my 2015 WBs exceeded my 2014s. But, to be fair, Burgundies have surprised me before …

I am glad that there are still people willing to buy expensive WB’s and brave the premox plague in order to age them so that I can live vicariously. Personally I am far too pissed off to continue.

For decades, Robert Parker was telling people that wines “age on their fruit” [presumably their esters?].

And during his brief tenure, Pierre Rovani also took up that mantle [rather aggressively, as I recall].

This. To me WB raison d’être is to age. Fun to read these debates but have been on the sidelines for years.

Off topic, but I hope someone will post notes on that Clos des Cortons vertical…our group did an excellent vertical with Erwan Faiveley in HK a couple of years back.

i have definitely had some impressively tense 15 whites, but buying without tasting would have been a minefield.

I think 2014s have much better tension and focus

Big fan of 14’, but as I’ve stated in another thread, in the right hands I think the 15’s are ultimately going to be the better wines.

Hung out with a winemaker for three days that was getting to the end of his 15’s, and after his visit to La Paulee completely sold out. I had asked him about the 15’s and said that he thought that they would turn out better than the 14’s for his address and loved the wines. When I asked about the 15’ ness of the wines, he got a little agitated and said people were making presumptions before the wines had a chance to show… I asked him how he felt they compared to other warmer vintages and he kinda pushed it off as being not as warm a vintage as people are saying…

From what I’ve tried, the 15’s are complete wines that are going to age well…

Well, for about 5 years safely. I apologize for my pessimism.

2014s have been so spectacular across the board–as Fred says, from GCs on down they are just so consistent. They have a combo of density and freshness that slays me. I also agree that '12s have been drinking well.

So it’s hard to imagine that '15s will approach '14, but I’m glad to hear a good report. The run of White Burg vintages since '07 or so has been killer.