Guaranteed Allocations w/Poll

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What’s your take?

I want guaranteed allocations.
41
30%
I appreciate guaranteed allocations.
52
38%
I’m neutral, if I want it bad enough I’ll order on time.
43
31%
I need week to think it over.
2
1%
 
Total votes: 138

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Brian Tuite
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Guaranteed Allocations w/Poll

#1 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 2:42 pm

You read it all the time, "I want guaranteed allocations, I don’t like first come first served, if you value me as a customer guarantee my allocation or I’ll shop elsewhere."

Some version of it is seen in the forums on a regular basis. Question, if you chose option 1 in the poll do you purchase your entire allocation every time one is offered?
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#2 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 23rd, 2018, 2:51 pm

I want guaranteed allocations.
I appreciate guaranteed allocations.
I’m neutral, if I want it bad enough I’ll order on time.
I need week to think it over.
I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between "want" and "appreciate," unless you meant for "want" to mean "require."

I voted "want." I almost never purchase my entire allocation. That said, it is true that "if I want it bad enough I'll order on time" *IF* my memory and work schedule allows for that. Some offers sell out nearly instantaneously, which can be aggravating if it's a FCFS situation. And, although I don't "need" a week to think it over, I certainly like having time to think it over.
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#3 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 2:57 pm

In general, I want guaranteed allocations. I would be happy to call it a subscription and go from there!

As to "entire allocations"...this can inflate beyond my ability to buy.

If I buy two cases of wines from winery X each year, suddenly making my allocation four cases for me to stay on the list would not work. I'd be fine with past purchasing volume being calculated in my ongoing 'allocation' with my 'promise' to keep buying.

I would vote: guaranteed baseline allocation that is fixed, with wish list abilities if they desire.
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#4 Post by Joe B » April 23rd, 2018, 3:15 pm

I am not here to demand anything of a business I do not own nor control.
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#5 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 3:22 pm

Joe B wrote:I am not here to demand anything of a business I do not own nor control.
That would be another forum. [wink.gif]
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#6 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 3:33 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between "want" and "appreciate," unless you meant for "want" to mean "require."
That’s what I meant just not how I worded it.
I voted "want." I almost never purchase my entire allocation. That said, it is true that "if I want it bad enough I'll order on time" *IF* my memory and work schedule allows for that. Some offers sell out nearly instantaneously, which can be aggravating if it's a FCFS situation. And, although I don't "need" a week to think it over, I certainly like having time to think it over.
So my question is why should you be guaranteed something you don’t purchase all of?
Or
What’s in it for the winery if they have to re-release the wines you passed on in hopes of selling it to someone else?

When people feel they have missed out they often allocate their money to another offer. I’m obviously talking allocated wines, not something where you are offered 10 cases or more and there’s some sent to retail and restaurants. From a businesses perspective I would want my customers to buy what I offer them. I like Anton’s idea of basing allocations on purchase history. I buy "x" nottles of this every year and "y" bottles of that. You want a large format? Wishlist.
Going to be in a meeeting all day? Good thing you got a "save the date" email a week or two in advance so you could be sure to email the winery and secure your order if you were not going to be available. I’ve done that with Hardy in the past. It really works.

What happenes when it’s not a vintage of the century? I think I’ll pass. Then they jab at the winery when wine goes to the second wave because they "couldn’t sell out." Couldn't sell out? Or were they too cheap to buy that allocation that had to be guaranteed?

Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
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#7 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » April 23rd, 2018, 3:39 pm

I don't really care which mechanism is used, I care about the outcome.

What would make me unhappy is a system under which I can buy the wine one (or more) years and then later get a "first come" offer which sells out if I don't respond within some unreasonably short time (say, two weeks). If I wait longer than that and it sells out, I can't really complain about the system. And if the system (how many offers go out, maximum order size, early window for repeat customers before the wait list or general public can order, etc.) is designed to prevent this, then I don't really care if I got a "guaranteed allocation" or not.

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#8 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 3:41 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
Hence, I referred to the idea of "subscribing."

Even without a promise to buy, I think the wineries I 'belong' to know my buying patterns and can decide if I am worth the risk/peril of a guaranteed allocation.
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#9 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 3:46 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:I don't really care which mechanism is used, I care about the outcome.

What would make me unhappy is a system under which I can buy the wine one (or more) years and then later get a "first come" offer which sells out if I don't respond within some unreasonably short time (say, two weeks).
Why whould I want to wait two weeks to get paid for something that someone else will pay me for today? A lot can happen in an unreasonably short two weeks.
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#10 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 3:58 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:I don't really care which mechanism is used, I care about the outcome.

What would make me unhappy is a system under which I can buy the wine one (or more) years and then later get a "first come" offer which sells out if I don't respond within some unreasonably short time (say, two weeks).
Why whould I want to wait two weeks to get paid for something that someone else will pay me for today? A lot can happen in an unreasonably short two weeks.
We can parse it until doomsday.

You asked for preferences, you got them.

In general, if I have been a steady customer and my ongoing business is not worth allowing me to buy without a "first come first served" threat, then I wander away from those lists. No demands, just buy or do not buy.

There are wines that sell out in a matter of hours - I don't like to scramble and have a life. You can opine about two weeks all you like, I would simply ask for a day so I could check my emails at random and continue my relationship with the winery. I would think that's not too great a strain on revenue and if it is, they don't need me, for sure!

I also drop lists that require buying wine X in order to buy wine Y.
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#11 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » April 23rd, 2018, 4:01 pm

Brian Tuite wrote: Going to be in a meeeting all day? Good thing you got a "save the date" email a week or two in advance so you could be sure to email the winery and secure your order if you were not going to be available. I’ve done that with Hardy in the past. It really works.
Interesting. I've never had this situation, and I suppose I would have tried that too, but often I don't know in advance when I'm going to be tied up or snowed under. Moreover, I've received many "save the date" e-mails and never interpreted them as "you can also respond to this and order early if you're going to be busy when the time comes." If they really mean that, then they aren't "save the date" e-mails, they are "get your orders in" e-mails. But either way, I get way too much e-mail, so I have never been a fan of the "save the date" e-mail that seems to have become the rage. I would rather get ONE e-mail with an offering to which I have a reasonable time to respond.
Brian Tuite wrote:Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
My experience with highly allocated offerings is that if you cut your purchases back, then your allocation gets reduced accordingly in the future, and that seems eminently fair to me, a nice way to balance customer satisfaction with the needs of the winery to make the process manageable.

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#12 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » April 23rd, 2018, 4:10 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
Why whould I want to wait two weeks to get paid for something that someone else will pay me for today? A lot can happen in an unreasonably short two weeks.
I'm with Anton. You asked for preferences, these are my preferences, others may have other preferences. Seems to me that if customer loyalty and relationships are of no value to the winery because their wines are so wonderful that demand will always support high prices and complete sell-through, they should just auction off their entire production every year. That would be one extreme. That would 100% be the winery's right, and I wouldn't complain about it in that sense, but I also wouldn't be a customer.

On the other hand, if the winery wants to build up a base of loyal repeat customers that include me, I've given you my thoughts on what would keep me around (in addition to the obvious of making wines I like and selling them for what I'm willing to pay). And if "waiting two weeks" to get paid is a problem, send the offering out two weeks sooner! [snort.gif]

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#13 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 4:13 pm

Anton D wrote:
Brian Tuite wrote:
D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:I don't really care which mechanism is used, I care about the outcome.

What would make me unhappy is a system under which I can buy the wine one (or more) years and then later get a "first come" offer which sells out if I don't respond within some unreasonably short time (say, two weeks).
Why whould I want to wait two weeks to get paid for something that someone else will pay me for today? A lot can happen in an unreasonably short two weeks.
We can parse it until doomsday.

You asked for preferences, you got them.

In general, if I have been a steady customer and my ongoing business is not worth allowing me to buy without a "first come first served" threat, then I wander away from those lists. No demands, just buy or do not buy.

There are wines that sell out in a matter of hours - I don't like to scramble and have a life. You can opine about two weeks all you like, I would simply ask for a day so I could check my emails at random and continue my relationship with the winery. I would think that's not too great a strain on revenue and if it is, they don't need me, for sure!

I also drop lists that require buying wine X in order to buy wine Y.
I’m not arguing with you Anton. I asked for preferences. I am now asking back-up questions based on those preferences. I didn’t know I had to disclose that in advance.

I just think that we has wine buyers want to be spoiled when with every other transaction we do in life it’s first come first served. The wine business is unique in which they work all year long spending, spending, spending, spending, spending and when they finally have a product sell to in order to pay the bills all-of-a-sudden the customer wants them to wait an unreasonably short two weeks before informing them whether or not they are going to buy. But guarantee that wait! [stirthepothal.gif]

So like I asked earlier, what’s the benefit to them to guarantee the offer?
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#14 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » April 23rd, 2018, 4:18 pm

The wine business is hardly unique in this regard. If you have Lakers season tickets, they don't offer your same seats for next season to you and the rest of the general public FCFS, nor do they make you wait for a magic date to renew, but then respond in a matter of hours or lose your seats to another guy who's willing to respond and pay immediately. OTOH, if you don't renew for this year because you think they'll stink, you can't call up next year and get your same seats back (or any seats if they're sold out). There are many other examples.

Edited to add:

The benefit to the seller of guaranteeing the offer is - hopefully - a stable base of repeat customers. It's all about scarcity. If there isn't any scarcity, offer it all FCFS and it won't sell through for quite a while anyway, and no one can complain about not having time to order some. If it's scarce enough that demand will always be there, vintage in, vintage out, at higher and higher prices, auction it all off every year and who cares if your past customers get outbid by the new kids on the block? If the scarcity level is in between those two, the winery can, by guaranteeing allocations to its repeat customers, leverage the scarcity in high-demand times (be they excellent vintages, good overall economic times, your grape varieties are in fashion but not too many others make them, etc.) to help sales in low-demand times (again be they weaker vintages, bad economic times, shifts in fashion away from your grape varieties or tons of new competition jumping on the bandwagon). This is because customers will have an incentive to buy every year, for fear of losing their guaranteed allocation in the future. If it's FCFS every year, customers can take a pass in low-demand times without any reduction in their chance to get the wine in the future if they are fast enough on the "reply" button, so there's no incentive for them to buy year-in, year-out. I don't have any data, but I suspect the fear of losing an allocation also makes long-term customers less resistant to price increases, but that's just a guess.
Last edited by D@ve D y r 0 f f on April 23rd, 2018, 4:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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#15 Post by Scott E. » April 23rd, 2018, 4:30 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:
Brian Tuite wrote:Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
My experience with highly allocated offerings is that if you cut your purchases back, then your allocation gets reduced accordingly in the future, and that seems eminently fair to me, a nice way to balance customer satisfaction with the needs of the winery to make the process manageable.
This is my experience as well - and let me tell you, it is sometimes very difficult to get an increase in an allocation once it is cut back. What is the point of waiting sometimes several years to become an eligible buyer and then only receive a FCFS offer? If it is FCFS, why not open it up to the wait list as well?

Regarding waiting to get paid for two weeks, what about the fact that we, as the buyer, sometimes have to wait months to get our purchases delivered? Cheers!
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#16 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 4:53 pm

D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:The wine business is hardly unique in this regard. If you have Lakers season tickets, they don't offer your same seats for next season to you and the rest of the general public FCFS, nor do they make you wait for a magic date to renew, but then respond in a matter of hours or lose your seats to another guy who's willing to respond and pay immediately. OTOH, if you don't renew for this year because you think they'll stink, you can't call up next year and get your same seats back (or any seats if they're sold out). There are many other examples.
Non-sequitor. Entertainment vs Consumble Goods. If you buy those seats and the Lakers suck do they give you free tickets to another game/season to make up for the flawed product?
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#17 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 4:57 pm

Scott E. wrote:
D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:
Brian Tuite wrote:Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
My experience with highly allocated offerings is that if you cut your purchases back, then your allocation gets reduced accordingly in the future, and that seems eminently fair to me, a nice way to balance customer satisfaction with the needs of the winery to make the process manageable.
This is my experience as well - and let me tell you, it is sometimes very difficult to get an increase in an allocation once it is cut back. What is the point of waiting sometimes several years to become an eligible buyer and then only receive a FCFS offer? If it is FCFS, why not open it up to the wait list as well?

Regarding waiting to get paid for two weeks, what about the fact that we, as the buyer, sometimes have to wait months to get our purchases delivered? Cheers!
Perfect.

A lot can happen between my buying in the spring and getting my wine in the fall. champagne.gif

There is obviously an equilibrium, but what is the winery gambling by offering me a guaranteed allocation for a set period of time? If I don't buy, then they won't make me the offer again, so the 'flakes' get rapidly filtered out. Also, if I don't buy, it's as if I weren't on the list in the first place, so what would they do with the wine after a 1-14 day sales delay?
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#18 Post by Joe B » April 23rd, 2018, 5:05 pm

Anton D wrote:
Joe B wrote:I am not here to demand anything of a business I do not own nor control.
That would be another forum. [wink.gif]
I feel like that is an invitation and my cue?
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#19 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f » April 23rd, 2018, 5:09 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
D@ve D y r 0 f f wrote:The wine business is hardly unique in this regard. If you have Lakers season tickets, they don't offer your same seats for next season to you and the rest of the general public FCFS, nor do they make you wait for a magic date to renew, but then respond in a matter of hours or lose your seats to another guy who's willing to respond and pay immediately. OTOH, if you don't renew for this year because you think they'll stink, you can't call up next year and get your same seats back (or any seats if they're sold out). There are many other examples.
Non-sequitor. Entertainment vs Consumble Goods. If you buy those seats and the Lakers suck do they give you free tickets to another game/season to make up for the flawed product?
I think your example is the non-sequitur, not that I see how any difference in what is enough of a "flaw" to require a refund makes any difference to the "guaranteed allocation" question. Buying a ticket doesn't guarantee you a win, or a close game, or a certain level of play, and thus the lack of any of those things isn't a "flaw" in the sense of making the product defective or requiring a refund or substitute. OTOH, the ticket does guarantee you a Lakers game. They can't send the UCLA team out instead and call it even. If they cancel the game due to a power outage, they schedule a make-up game at no extra charge. If they stink, or their opponent stinks and it's a boring blowout, no refund. Same thing with a winery, some things are flaws that justify a refund or replacement bottle (corked bottle, etc.), others not (this vintage isn't as highly rated as last year, I'm not sure I still like pinot as much as I used to).

But none of that has anything to do with either a) why customers would rather it be easier rather than harder for them to order your wine year after year; or b) what's in it for the winery to go through the additional hassles of using a guaranteed allocation system (or some other system that gives repeat customers some reasonable window of time in which to order before being shut out) instead of just using FCFS.

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#20 Post by Bryan M » April 23rd, 2018, 5:56 pm

I would surmise that some of these wineries might not have enough wine to guarantee everyone on their list an allocation-

In such case, (IMHO) FCFS seems to me to be a pretty legit and straight forward system- If you want it, be firstish.
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#21 Post by Scott Brunson » April 23rd, 2018, 6:04 pm

I want guaranteed allocations, in case I can't get to a computer right away. I probably should not abandon a class of middle school students so I can order wine.
I do not always take my full allocation--depends on available funds.
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#22 Post by Anton D » April 23rd, 2018, 6:05 pm

Bryan M wrote:I would surmise that some of these wineries might not have enough wine to guarantee everyone on their list an allocation-

In such case, (IMHO) FCFS seems to me to be a pretty legit and straight forward system- If you want it, be firstish.
And that is fine.

Buyers can decide and the wineries can run the system they prefer.

I was only answering regarding having a personal preference.
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#23 Post by james l moleberg » April 23rd, 2018, 6:08 pm

Have to agree with the others here, and sharply disagree with Brian's analysis that wineries spend, spend, spend. Almost exactly the opposite. It takes a lot of balls for schrader to go FCFS AND sit on your money for a year. A lot of these wineries that are FCFS are not shipping out your wine for a minimum of a month. If they can't wait 2 weeks for payment but we have to wait 2 weeks minimum for shipment, then screw em. So many of these wineries have pushed their releases up, so they can catch the first wave of wine release spending dollars, even though the spring or fall shipping seasons then become further out. Sorry, that's the one way street.

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#24 Post by Bryan M » April 23rd, 2018, 6:33 pm

Anton D wrote:
Bryan M wrote:I would surmise that some of these wineries might not have enough wine to guarantee everyone on their list an allocation-

In such case, (IMHO) FCFS seems to me to be a pretty legit and straight forward system- If you want it, be firstish.
And that is fine.

Buyers can decide and the wineries can run the system they prefer.

I was only answering regarding having a personal preference.

I wasn't speaking directly to you but only throwing out my 2 cents (worth about 1 cent) on the topic- As for preference (as was the question in the OP), I too would prefer a guarenteed allocation but I surly don't want to guarantee the purchase of that allocation.. [cheers.gif] champagne.gif newhere
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#25 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » April 23rd, 2018, 7:25 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference between "want" and "appreciate," unless you meant for "want" to mean "require."
That’s what I meant just not how I worded it.
In that case, I change my vote to "appreciate."
I voted "want." I almost never purchase my entire allocation. That said, it is true that "if I want it bad enough I'll order on time" *IF* my memory and work schedule allows for that. Some offers sell out nearly instantaneously, which can be aggravating if it's a FCFS situation. And, although I don't "need" a week to think it over, I certainly like having time to think it over.
So my question is why should you be guaranteed something you don’t purchase all of?
I never said that. I don't think a customer "should" be guaranteed an allocation, necessarily. That's a business decision for each business to make. I would point out, however, that the very term "allocation" implies that certain product has been set-aside, or "allocated" for the given customer. FCFS offers are just that --- Offers --- not allocations.
Or
What’s in it for the winery if they have to re-release the wines you passed on in hopes of selling it to someone else?
Keeps happy customers happy. Customer relations. I believe it's always a good idea for any business to make it as easy/convenient as possible for their customers to spend their money on the product/service being sold. Obviously, there are other interests at play, but separating the customer from their money should probably be at the top of the list.
When people feel they have missed out they often allocate their money to another offer. I’m obviously talking allocated wines, not something where you are offered 10 cases or more and there’s some sent to retail and restaurants. From a businesses perspective I would want my customers to buy what I offer them. I like Anton’s idea of basing allocations on purchase history. I buy "x" nottles of this every year and "y" bottles of that. You want a large format? Wishlist.
Going to be in a meeeting all day? Good thing you got a "save the date" email a week or two in advance so you could be sure to email the winery and secure your order if you were not going to be available. I’ve done that with Hardy in the past. It really works.
That's a good idea about emailing ahead of time, although it does run counter to the buying system the winery is advertising. I could turn that good idea on its head and ask, "Why should you be entitled to purchase early based on your representation that you are going to be too busy to buy at the time the Offer opens? Is that an example of the "entitled" behavior you seem to be railing against? (for the record, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate; I actually think emailing ahead of time is a good idea and does not reflect any sense of entitlement; of course, I also think "appreciating" guaranteed allocations are not reflective of any sense of entitlement)
What happenes when it’s not a vintage of the century? I think I’ll pass. Then they jab at the winery when wine goes to the second wave because they "couldn’t sell out." Couldn't sell out? Or were they too cheap to buy that allocation that had to be guaranteed?

Guaranteed allocations with no purchase obligation seems a bit one sided to me.
Good point, albeit one that doesn't emotionally reasonate with me because I am vintage-adverse w/r/t the very few lists I am on. Many wineries will drop you if you don't buy, so no one-sidedness there. Other wineries will adjust allocations based on purchase history (i.e.: Rhys), and that takes this behavior into account, as well, so not so one-sided there, either. If a winery's wines are in such high demand that they can sell-through vis-a-vis a "list," then I have to believe they're doing a-okay, and we probably don't need to be worried about their financial well-being. If that statement isn't true, then I'd suggest the winery needs to take a long hard look at their financials and figure out if they can somehow make some changes that would allow them to be profitable.
Last edited by Brian G r a f s t r o m on April 23rd, 2018, 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#26 Post by Mark Y » April 23rd, 2018, 7:29 pm

First come first serve I usually avoid.
What’s wrong with how Cayuse does it.
They offer. U buy. U get offered again.
U can wishlist more. Next year it’s guarantees of wishlist Is granted.
U pass partially, it’s cut back to ur actual purchase. Totally fair.

If something unusual happens like massive cut In production then everyone’s allocation drops but u don’t lose your lot once the following years production comes back up.

Seems to work so well....
Y.e.

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#27 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 7:44 pm

james l moleberg wrote:and sharply disagree with Brian's analysis that wineries spend, spend, spend. Almost exactly the opposite.
Let’s look at that.

Order barrels.
Buy fruit.
Hire a crew/custom crush client fees/winemaker
Pay lab fees
Put wine to barrel
Pay for artwork
Buy labels
Get labels approved
Order barrels
Buy fruit
Hire crew/pay custom crush client fees
Pay lab fees
Put wine to barrel
Buy glass
Buy corks
Buy capsules
Bottle your previous vintage
Pay your alcohol tax
Release wine for sale.
Store wine in temp controlled warehouse until weather is acceptable for shipping.

Two vintages in barrel before you even have an opportunity to sell a single drop.
Time to buy more fruit for vintage 3.
Pay shipping/fulfillment company. Pay salesperson/tasting room employee.

Yeah, theyre rolling in cash. Schrader is an outlier. Not all allocated wines are cash cows. Get a less than stellar score, wines don’t move fast enough. Release 3 wines because people want choices and they buy 2 bottles of the highest scoring wine and snub the other two. Then they complain you didn’t ship it right away during a heat wave and beat you up on the wine boards.

Correct me if I’m wrong.
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#28 Post by Brian Tuite » April 23rd, 2018, 7:53 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: (just playing Devil's Advocate; I actually think emailing ahead of time is a good idea and does not reflect any sense of entitlement; of course, I also think "appreciating" guaranteed allocations are not reflective of any sense of entitlement)
As I am. I’m just trying to figure out the reasoning a customer has to want a certain quantity of a product held for them and not be obligated to buy it all or any. As a retailer I have 30 days from the day I order a product until it’s to be paid for in full. If my customers were like wine buyers I’d go broke..
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#29 Post by Scott E. » April 24th, 2018, 11:11 am

Mark Y wrote:First come first serve I usually avoid.
What’s wrong with how Cayuse does it.
They offer. U buy. U get offered again.
U can wishlist more. Next year it’s guarantees of wishlist Is granted.
U pass partially, it’s cut back to ur actual purchase. Totally fair.

If something unusual happens like massive cut In production then everyone’s allocation drops but u don’t lose your lot once the following years production comes back up.

Seems to work so well....
I really don't like Cayuse's system. They initially only allocate one (maybe two?) wine - that is the only offer you get. Maybe you don't like Grenache (or whatever) - if you pass, you will never get another allocation offer. If you buy, it may be years until you get an allocation for a wine that you really want.
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#30 Post by Anton D » April 24th, 2018, 11:33 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote: (just playing Devil's Advocate; I actually think emailing ahead of time is a good idea and does not reflect any sense of entitlement; of course, I also think "appreciating" guaranteed allocations are not reflective of any sense of entitlement)
As I am. I’m just trying to figure out the reasoning a customer has to want a certain quantity of a product held for them and not be obligated to buy it all or any. As a retailer I have 30 days from the day I order a product until it’s to be paid for in full. If my customers were like wine buyers I’d go broke..
Just to be clear, they aren't "holding product," just giving someone an early shot at it.

Do you sell people tools and tell them they can't have them for 6 mos? Where's your 30 day model for mailing list wines that you buy?

They hold my money, they can "hold" my product for a few days.

If you want to think of it as "holding product" then consider a guaranteed allocation as selling before the official release date - there! Not "holding product." They are pre-selling product.
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#31 Post by J a y H a c k » April 24th, 2018, 11:41 am

I have a life outside wine. Sometimes, it gets in the way of putting in a prompt order. I lost out on 2005 Saxum Rocket Block because of that. I lost out on the Next of Kyn original sign up because of that. Although I joke about how annoying it was, the truth is that it's only fermented grape juice and I already own enough wine for the rest of my life, so why get upset about it. I appreciate it but I am not going to kill over it.

NOW I will kill over wineries that I have been buying from for a decade still not allocating me any of their special cuvee. I don't like Constellation and did not like the fact that they bought Schrader. I was on the fence about continuing my allocation. I waited until the last offer and when I still got a ZERO allocation of Old Sparky, never having been offered even one bottle, I said F* them and stopped ordering. I came pretty close on Cayuse when they never offered me a Flying Pig despite a promise, but I decided that the way they handled the recent cork taint issue (refund with interest) was nice so I didn't advise Mr. Dorland what to do with his wine.
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#32 Post by J a y H a c k » April 24th, 2018, 11:48 am

PS - I did once order a FCFS allocation from my laptop while sitting on the dais and about to present as part of a Continuing Legal Education panel during the Bar Association annual meeting. I told the moderator that if she made sure my slot didn't some up at exactly noon, I would share a bottle with her. She now tells the story to everyone as an example of multi-tasking,
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#33 Post by Chris Seiber » April 24th, 2018, 12:49 pm

I don’t feel strongly, except that, like everyone else, I don’t want an allocation email hitting at 10:00 am that has sold out by 10:24 or something.

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#34 Post by Anton D » April 24th, 2018, 1:01 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:I don’t feel strongly, except that, like everyone else, I don’t want an allocation email hitting at 10:00 am that has sold out by 10:24 or something.
This.
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#35 Post by Joe B » April 24th, 2018, 1:15 pm

Chris Seiber wrote:I don’t feel strongly, except that, like everyone else, I don’t want an allocation email hitting at 10:00 am that has sold out by 10:24 or something.
I only feel bad in the above situation when I find out that while they said it opens at 10:00 but it actually opened up at 9:00 or 8:00 or the night before. Then I’m a bit put off.
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