Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#1 Post by c fu » April 20th, 2018, 1:01 pm

I was at a restaurant yesterday and didn't finish the bottle I had purchased off the list so they gave me a Repour for the bottle. I don't believe it's multi bottle use but it's supposed to pull oxygen out of the bottle. I tried the wine again at lunch today at it tasted pretty fresh, if not a touch reductive (and bricked in color but not flavor/nose). It actually needed some time to open up.

I left the bottle in my bag in the car (low 50s) overnight. Seemed pretty effective. Will try again tonight with the same bottle as I have about 2/5th of the bottle left.

Anyone else have any experience with it?

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#2 Post by Paul McCourt » April 20th, 2018, 1:15 pm

Never heard of it. Would be interested in following it to see if it is actually effective.

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#3 Post by A. So » April 20th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Interesting. Picked up a 4 pack to try.
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#4 Post by Stan Y. » April 20th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Fascinating, I wonder if you can tie a $0.20 500cc oxygen absorber packet to some butcher's twine and hang it from the top of the recorked bottle with the same effect.
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#5 Post by Eric Lundblad » April 20th, 2018, 1:34 pm

I'm using it for bottles I pour for restaurants/shops. It's quite effective and keeps bottles in good shape much longer than the other options. Bottles poured with the other options would last 2 weeks max. The bottles weren't bad or off, but they were evolved compared to a newly opened bottle...and I'm not going to pour that for someone considering my wines for their list/shop.

Repour doesn't have that problem, with one caveat: the first couple of bottles I used it on were either a bit dumb (whites) or reductive (reds) the next time (both resolved with a bit of air time). Repour causes a 21% vacuum (the in-bottle oxygen is absorbed, and O2 is 21% of air). I wondered if this vacuum was a problem, so I pull and reseat the repour (to release the vacuum) after a few hours...since then no problems.

I'm also trying them out on partial kegs (partially full of wine) at the winery.

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#6 Post by BrianL » April 20th, 2018, 1:35 pm

I picked up a four pack a week or two ago based off a post over on GuildSomm https://www.guildsomm.com/4cb697f52c/di ... ing-repour that looked promising. Will probably try it on a bottle later tonight and will definitely report back.
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#7 Post by Scott Watkins » April 20th, 2018, 1:57 pm

I have used them and they seem to work quite well, never went past 2 days tho. It definitely sucks the air out you get a pop when you pull the cork.
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#8 Post by larry schaffer » April 20th, 2018, 2:01 pm

I would be interested in people comparing bottles using this versus bottles not using this to see how truly effective it is. Try taking an open bottle, putting it into a smaller screw cap bottle, and sticking it in the fridge overnight.
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#9 Post by Mark Y » April 20th, 2018, 2:06 pm

Full bottles into two halves. Bagged.
One has this. One regular cork.

Blind taste next day.
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#10 Post by Justin S » April 20th, 2018, 2:19 pm

Splitting a 10 pack with a friend. If it works well, may have to do a Berserker group buy.
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#11 Post by c fu » April 20th, 2018, 2:24 pm

BrianL wrote:I picked up a four pack a week or two ago based off a post over on GuildSomm https://www.guildsomm.com/4cb697f52c/di ... ing-repour that looked promising. Will probably try it on a bottle later tonight and will definitely report back.
Funny enough I was introduced to it by another somm at Spago. He said they use it for their by the glass and has been exceptional.
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#12 Post by Eric Ifune » April 20th, 2018, 2:28 pm

Wonder what they're using to scavenge oxygen that removes 100%?

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#13 Post by Alan Rath » April 20th, 2018, 2:57 pm

Ladybugs?

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#14 Post by Stan Y. » April 20th, 2018, 3:18 pm

Eric Ifune wrote:Wonder what they're using to scavenge oxygen that removes 100%?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4375217/

I'm guessing it's as simple as ferrous iron.
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#15 Post by etomasi » April 20th, 2018, 3:44 pm

Seems like a waste for a single use item.
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#16 Post by Scott Fitzgerald » April 20th, 2018, 3:56 pm

Just watched the video on their website. Claim you can open and close the bottle as many time as you want while using the same stopper. Now that's interesting. I just ordered a 10-pack off their website - free shipping too. Will report back in later.
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#17 Post by c fu » April 20th, 2018, 4:03 pm

etomasi wrote:Seems like a waste for a single use item.
It’s single bottle but not single use. You can use the stopper for the same bottle. Pop open. Pour. Then close back up quickly.
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#18 Post by Justin S » April 20th, 2018, 4:25 pm

I think his point is that this is just another plastic waste product...hopefully it can be recycled.
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#19 Post by BrianL » April 20th, 2018, 4:54 pm

c fu wrote:
etomasi wrote:Seems like a waste for a single use item.
It’s single bottle but not single use. You can use the stopper for the same bottle. Pop open. Pour. Then close back up quickly.
I think the creator also said that they're made to absorb the oxygen of ~ 10 glasses of air and that in theory a stopper could be reused on multiple bottles with careful tracking... don't have that quote handy though

Edit: Here's where I got that from https://www.thegrommet.com/repour
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#20 Post by Carlos Delpin » April 20th, 2018, 5:56 pm

I have been testing this for two weeks now with 5 different bottles opened the same day. Will post detailed comments later but so far, having tried 2 ounces every other day of each wine (whites and reds), I can not find deterioration nor development. The wines are in great shape. Fits for my purpose of having a slew of bottles open at the same time and be able to decide what to drink based on menu or mood.

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#21 Post by Eric Ifune » April 21st, 2018, 10:25 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4375217/

I'm guessing it's as simple as ferrous iron.
100ppm is not 100%, but it probably works as advertised. The chemistry would work. No way to reuse them unless you open up the entire device and renew the scavenging compound.

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#22 Post by DanielPaik » April 21st, 2018, 11:21 am

Is it just as effective without refrigerating the wine?

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#23 Post by DAVID GIBBS » April 21st, 2018, 7:26 pm

c fu wrote:
BrianL wrote:I picked up a four pack a week or two ago based off a post over on GuildSomm https://www.guildsomm.com/4cb697f52c/di ... ing-repour that looked promising. Will probably try it on a bottle later tonight and will definitely report back.
Funny enough I was introduced to it by another somm at Spago. He said they use it for their by the glass and has been exceptional.
we're using them, they work pretty well.
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#24 Post by c fu » April 21st, 2018, 7:31 pm

DAVID GIBBS wrote:
c fu wrote:
BrianL wrote:I picked up a four pack a week or two ago based off a post over on GuildSomm https://www.guildsomm.com/4cb697f52c/di ... ing-repour that looked promising. Will probably try it on a bottle later tonight and will definitely report back.
Funny enough I was introduced to it by another somm at Spago. He said they use it for their by the glass and has been exceptional.
we're using them, they work pretty well.
Big vote of confidence if you’re using them!! Do you find it you need to put the wines back in the fridge? Is there an optimal level of wine that you feel it’s no longer efficient?
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#25 Post by Bryan Price » April 21st, 2018, 8:41 pm

At my tasting with Joe Davis, he was using some not yet patented version of this which were $2.50 each. Most of the bottles we tasted at Arcadian were "open" for two weeks on this device, and tasted fresh.
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#26 Post by John Morris » April 21st, 2018, 8:54 pm

I haven't tried this, but it strikes me that it rests on the assumption that the only problem with leaving an open bottle is exposure to oxygen. That ignores the evaporation of aromatic compounds out of the wine.
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#27 Post by Bryan Price » April 21st, 2018, 10:22 pm

etomasi wrote:Seems like a waste for a single use item.
A waste is cracking open a $95 pinot noir and leaving about half in the bottle uncorked in the fridge [head-bang.gif] .

Luckily this was a very nice Morlet wine that somehow tasted great the next day! Seriously though, I think a $1-2 cost added on to a very nice bottle, if you know you won't drink it all, would be worth it on an irregular basis.
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#28 Post by Bryan Price » April 21st, 2018, 10:35 pm

Carlos Delpin wrote:I have been testing this for two weeks now with 5 different bottles opened the same day. Will post detailed comments later but so far, having tried 2 ounces every other day of each wine (whites and reds), I can not find deterioration nor development. The wines are in great shape. Fits for my purpose of having a slew of bottles open at the same time and be able to decide what to drink based on menu or mood.
Very very cool! My wife always wishes she could have just 1 glass, this will do the trick nicely. I've ordered a few on Amazon.
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#29 Post by Carlos Delpin » April 22nd, 2018, 1:49 am

John Morris wrote:I haven't tried this, but it strikes me that it rests on the assumption that the only problem with leaving an open bottle is exposure to oxygen. That ignores the evaporation of aromatic compounds out of the wine.
Good point. So far in my trials the aromatics of the wines have maintained well and if anything they feel a bit more concentrated.

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#30 Post by John Morris » April 22nd, 2018, 6:17 am

Carlos Delpin wrote:
John Morris wrote:I haven't tried this, but it strikes me that it rests on the assumption that the only problem with leaving an open bottle is exposure to oxygen. That ignores the evaporation of aromatic compounds out of the wine.
Good point. So far in my trials the aromatics of the wines have maintained well and if anything they feel a bit more concentrated.
That is the problem with pumps like the Vacuvin. They wipe out the aromas.

I don't understand from reading the links what the Repour does. It's supposed to neutralize oxygen somehow?
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#31 Post by Stan Y. » April 22nd, 2018, 8:11 am

It's in the paper I linked John, reduced iron wants to react with oxygen significantly more than anything else in the package wants the oxygen. So all the other gases remain, i.e. not a vacuum.
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#32 Post by John Morris » April 22nd, 2018, 8:24 am

Stan Y. wrote:It's in the paper I linked John, reduced iron wants to react with oxygen significantly more than anything else in the package wants the oxygen. So all the other gases remain, i.e. not a vacuum.
Even without a pump, you've vastly increased the headspace so you can still lose aromas.
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#33 Post by Al Osterheld » April 22nd, 2018, 9:24 am

I think this gets rid of more oxygen than a Vacuvin (don't think it pulls a perfect vacuum). I would also wonder about the increased head space affecting the wine since some of the volatile/aromatic compounds will partially come out of the wine.

FWIW, if it does what is claims (and it sounds like it does), it will create a partial vacuum in the head space, as Eric mentioned. But, that won't affect the release of other aromatic compounds because each substance sets up an equilibrium where the partial pressure of the substance is the head space is the same as in the wine. So, more head space means more of the substance comes out of the wine but removing the oxygen doesn't affect the equilibrium for any other substance (dissolved oxygen would come out and also be scavenged).

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#34 Post by Eric Lundblad » April 22nd, 2018, 9:32 am

John Morris wrote:
Stan Y. wrote:It's in the paper I linked John, reduced iron wants to react with oxygen significantly more than anything else in the package wants the oxygen. So all the other gases remain, i.e. not a vacuum.
Even without a pump, you've vastly increased the headspace so you can still lose aromas.
If you pour out half the bottle and insert a repour, it'll absorb all the oxygen...21% of the air, so it'll have a partial vacuum (21%).

Aromatics occur because of diffusion (within wine, and from the wine to air). Diffusion in a gas is extremely fast...repour depends on this to absorb the O2 quickly. But diffusion in a liquid is very very slow...years/decades slow. So you'd lose aromatics from the very top layer of the wine. And it's not a continious loss...it'll reach a steady state fairly quickly (same amt of aromatic molecules going into the air as are going back to the liquid). This fact, aromatics only comes from the surface, is why we like large wine glasses, and like to swirl them.

So loss of aromatics isn't an issue imo. I've tested this many times over 1+ year periods via my wine in partly filled kegs (used for topping barrels, head space in keg is nitrogen)...no loss of aromatics.
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#35 Post by Alan Rath » April 22nd, 2018, 9:59 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:Aromatics occur because of diffusion (within wine, and from the wine to air). Diffusion in a gas is extremely fast...repour depends on this to absorb the O2 quickly. But diffusion in a liquid is very very slow...years/decades slow. So you'd lose aromatics from the very top layer of the wine. And it's not a continious loss...it'll reach a steady state fairly quickly (same amt of aromatic molecules going into the air as are going back to the liquid).
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#36 Post by larry schaffer » April 22nd, 2018, 10:08 am

Eric,

You use these for partial kegs? Do they make various sizes? Interesting . . .

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#37 Post by larry schaffer » April 22nd, 2018, 10:12 am

I also wonder about its effectiveness versus a screw cap and just putting the screw cap back on tight. Eric, any comments or thoughts?

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#38 Post by John Morris » April 22nd, 2018, 10:15 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:
John Morris wrote:
Stan Y. wrote:It's in the paper I linked John, reduced iron wants to react with oxygen significantly more than anything else in the package wants the oxygen. So all the other gases remain, i.e. not a vacuum.
Even without a pump, you've vastly increased the headspace so you can still lose aromas.
If you pour out half the bottle and insert a repour, it'll absorb all the oxygen...21% of the air, so it'll have a partial vacuum (21%).

Aromatics occur because of diffusion (within wine, and from the wine to air). Diffusion in a gas is extremely fast...repour depends on this to absorb the O2 quickly. But diffusion in a liquid is very very slow...years/decades slow. So you'd lose aromatics from the very top layer of the wine. And it's not a continious loss...it'll reach a steady state fairly quickly (same amt of aromatic molecules going into the air as are going back to the liquid). This fact, aromatics only comes from the surface, is why we like large wine glasses, and like to swirl them.

So loss of aromatics isn't an issue imo. I've tested this many times over 1+ year periods via my wine in partly filled kegs (used for topping barrels, head space in keg is nitrogen)...no loss of aromatics.
That's very interesting. I suppose what you're saying about rapid diffusion into a gas explains the burst of aromas when you first pop the cork.

What about changes in pressure? When you cork, does that put the air in the headspace under slight pressure? I've been curious about that.

Do you agree that the vacuums are a different story? I used to use the Vacuvin. I found they were OK if the bottle was, say, 3/4 full, but below that, and after multiple pumps, the wine lost all aroma; they were flatter than I would find just recorking the partially full bottle. (I always refrigerate opened bottles.)

The reason I challenged the idea of the Repour is that virtually all the discussions here about devices like this or Coravin, or about decanting, start from the assumpion that the only factor at play when you expose to wine to air is its interaction with oxygen. Some of Jamie Wolff's articles talk about factors affecting diffusion of aromatics, including alcohol and sugar levels. That made me aware that there's more going on than just oxygen.

Alan R's data in an earlier thread about how little oxygen diffuses into a liquid also suggested (to me, anyway) that something else is also going on in a decanter.
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#39 Post by Nick Ryan » April 22nd, 2018, 10:43 am

This can't be better than a Coravin, right, since if you Coravin properly oxygen never even makes it into the bottle in the first place?
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#40 Post by Bob G » April 22nd, 2018, 10:48 am

Wouldn't a shot of argon gas in the bottle be just as effective and be less wasteful? I've had good results keeping wine fresh for days with the Winesaver gas canisters. I purchased some on the Berserker days offer last year.

I typically drink about 25 percent of a bottle then give it a shot of argon and seal the bottle with a wine bottle stopper. I enjoy seeing how a wine evolves over several days in the bottle with this limited exposure to air. Many young wines are better after one if not two days after being opened and stored in this manner.
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#41 Post by Robert Grenley » April 22nd, 2018, 11:07 am

One problem in trying to save remaining wine after a wine tasting is that the bottles have been open for hours and in many cases they were double decanted hours before that. Winesaver doesn’t help in that situation it seems nor placing in half bottles, etc. Woud this have any better effect then them or is the cat out of the bag?
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#42 Post by larry schaffer » April 22nd, 2018, 11:19 am

I think that enough questions have been raised that someone - or a group of folks - really need to 'test' this out versus the other methods suggested:

Coravin
Argon gas (winesaver, etc)
Putting into smaller container
Doing nothing

The 'challenge' is to do this blind - and to make sure that you are only dealing with a single variable. Perhaps this won't be done on an 82 Bordeaux but instead on a less expensive wine that is a) young enough to 'need' air and b) expressive enough that you will note the difference.

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#43 Post by larry schaffer » April 22nd, 2018, 11:23 am

And one question since I have not used these - are they 'universal' in fit so they will work with cork / screw cap / any type of closure? My guess is yes based on the design, but the reason I ask is that if you look at the Amazon reviews, a bunch of people say that it 'does not fit'. Comments please?

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#44 Post by c fu » April 22nd, 2018, 11:24 am

Nick Ryan wrote:This can't be better than a Coravin, right, since if you Coravin properly oxygen never even makes it into the bottle in the first place?
Oxygen is in the headspace because you remove wine from the bottle. Having the cork introduces oxygen.
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Alan Rath
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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#45 Post by Alan Rath » April 22nd, 2018, 11:30 am

Bob G wrote:Wouldn't a shot of argon gas in the bottle be just as effective and be less wasteful? I've had good results keeping wine fresh for days with the Winesaver gas canisters. I purchased some on the Berserker days offer last year.
That depends on how much you believe the volatiles in the head space are important to keep in the bottle. This device leaves those in place, while purging with a gas drives them out.

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Robert Grenley
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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#46 Post by Robert Grenley » April 22nd, 2018, 11:33 am

Meaning that further oxidation would be “prevented” but previous oxidation not reversed. I only ask because it seems that Winesaver works well when a freshly opened bottle has a glass or two poured out and then the argon placed, but when the bottle has been open for hours it’s relative level of freshness does not seem to be as well maintained by the next day. That also seems to be the case when I pour to the top of a small bottle and seal it. So I am wondering whether the oxidation process and degradation that has already occurred over hours continues in some way so that simply preventing further exposure to oxygen is not enough to maintain its condition as effectively. If any of that makes any sense at all.
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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#47 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » April 22nd, 2018, 11:58 am

Yeah typically when I use my vacuvin I’ll pour the wine out then immediately vacuum the bottle; if you leave it open I’m sure it it’d evolve more. I bought a few of these to try.

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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#48 Post by BrianL » April 22nd, 2018, 12:17 pm

larry schaffer wrote:And one question since I have not used these - are they 'universal' in fit so they will work with cork / screw cap / any type of closure? My guess is yes based on the design, but the reason I ask is that if you look at the Amazon reviews, a bunch of people say that it 'does not fit'. Comments please?

Cheers!
They do fit on screw caps (actually have it on your Watch Hills Grenache right now). Just remove the screw and place the stopper into the bottle. I’d expect it to work with any typical bottle.
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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#49 Post by TimK » April 22nd, 2018, 9:44 pm

Got a pack of these recently after some online discussions over here. No conclusions as yet but have just started an initial trial comparing two bottles of entry level chardonnay, same wine, same source. Empty out half the wine from each, Repour on one, original screwcap on the other, back into fridge, leave for a week, take out, leave 10 mins to warm up slightly, re-taste blind. Will report back, and look forward to hearing results from others. Trial with red wine resealed using Repour and not put into a fridge for a week would also be interesting.

Based on their blurb, one person over here calculated Repour could absorb the O2 from around 10-20 bottles (depending on fill level), so I see no reason you can't just keep using it on multiple bottles, although obviously there will come a point where it's O2 absorption is complete and your bottle is no longer protected. I suppose enough experience should determine how far this can go.

Assuming it works (and it does according to many people), I'm surprised no one thought of it earlier! Iron and Salt eh, that's some fancy chemistry right there. [cheers.gif]
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Repour wine saver - anyone use this?

#50 Post by Eric Lundblad » April 23rd, 2018, 6:39 pm

larry schaffer wrote:Eric,

You use these for partial kegs? Do they make various sizes? Interesting . . .

Cheers
One of the bungs I use is the Alasco Dalco Dual bung...it's a silicone bung that has a 'plug' in the middle, pull it up to be a fermentation bung, push it down to be a solid/non-ferm bung. I'm sure you've seen/use them. They're terrible for anything with a steady/rapid fermentation rate, but I like them for barrels whose ML is trickling along on/off. Anyways, I believe the diameter of the plug is compatible/same as the repour (haven't verified this yet). So I'm thinking I could put the bung (sans plug) on the partial keg, gas the keg with Nitrogen/Argon, then put the repour in to get the remaining O2 that you can never get with gassing alone. Currently, I'm doing more elaborate (and boring, so will spare the details) to avoid this...if the repour works it'd simplify my life. Woo Hoo.
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