Best books on Burgundy

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Pirom P.
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Best books on Burgundy

#1 Post by Pirom P. » April 18th, 2018, 11:38 pm

I'm trying to find out if there's a book or resource which list the Lieu-dit's of Burgundy and those which are tied to their respective growers. Specifically listing why that respective lieu-dit is different from their neighbor.

The big compendiums I don't think consistently have that information, for example where Richebourg is written about quite a bit, there's less on Chambertin.

Any ideas?
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#2 Post by Alex Rychlewski » April 19th, 2018, 12:05 am

Hi,

This is the best book I know:



It is classified by appellation.

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#3 Post by g.colangelo » April 19th, 2018, 12:13 am

Alex Rychlewski wrote:Hi,

This is the best book I know:



It is classified by appellation.

Alex R.
Agreed, and I went through several...
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#4 Post by Alex Rychlewski » April 19th, 2018, 12:19 am

You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.

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#5 Post by Mich@el Ch@ng » April 19th, 2018, 1:15 am

How’s the Clive Coates book?

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#6 Post by Marcus Dean » April 19th, 2018, 1:51 am

Mich@el Ch@ng wrote:How’s the Clive Coates book?
Clive is a good writer and his books are a good read, but for straight up education and information it is really hard to go past Jaspers book (Inside Burgundy as mentioned above).

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#7 Post by Pirom P. » April 19th, 2018, 2:49 am

Thanks! Gotta see if my library has it before i buy.
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#8 Post by Jonathan G » April 19th, 2018, 2:56 am

Another nod for Inside Burgundy. I had luck calling in to BBR and asking them to ship the book internationally to me here in the US -- it might be good to check if that's a possibility for you (instead of paying $1400 on Amazon).
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#9 Post by maureen nelson » April 19th, 2018, 3:56 am

Try buying it from Sotheby’s

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#10 Post by Howard Cooper » April 19th, 2018, 5:54 am

Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
Great book, but if anyone wants to buy my copy for $1,411.16, let me know.
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#11 Post by Ian H » April 19th, 2018, 6:05 am

Remington Norman has written a couple of decent books. Grand Cru and The Great Domaines of Burgundy. I have an older version of the latter which is severely outdated, but I do see a newer edition on Amazon. If that's been updated I'd recommend looking at that. Grand Cru has a couple of pages each on most of the top vineyards.
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#12 Post by John Morris » April 19th, 2018, 6:23 am

Ian H wrote:Remington Norman has written a couple of decent books. Grand Cru and The Great Domaines of Burgundy. I have an older version of the latter which is severely outdated, but I do see a newer edition on Amazon. If that's been updated I'd recommend looking at that. Grand Cru has a couple of pages each on most of the top vineyards.
As I recall, the update was done by someone else and there were problems with it. I remember someone saying that the original was better in a number of ways. But I don't recall the details.
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#13 Post by Henry Kiichli » April 19th, 2018, 6:26 am

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#14 Post by John Morris » April 19th, 2018, 6:30 am

Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
Probably not if it's out of print. Many out-of-print books shoot up in price, particularly hardbacks.

I co-authored a book in 2010. The hardback had a list price of $27 and sold at Barnes & Noble and Amazon for ~$20 (standard discount). When the paperback came out, the publisher stopped selling the hardback. There are hardbacks available via Amazon now from $179 to more than $1,000.
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#15 Post by A.Gillette » April 19th, 2018, 6:53 am

Although outdated, Matt Kramer's "Making Sense of Burgundy" is a great resource with lots of wonderful information, including detailed vineyard ownership culled from various public records. Anthony Hanson's most recent edition of "Burgundy" (early 2000s, I think) is also great.
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#16 Post by William Kelley » April 19th, 2018, 7:09 am

The first and second editions of Remington Norman are indeed better than the new edition revised by Charles Taylor, and producers seem to have been more candid in detailing their practice in the first edition than the second. Lots of surprising insights there.

Jasper is currently working on a new edition of Inside Burgundy, so you may want to hold off purchasing for a year, or just buy the ebook for now.

Charles Curtis' book on the historical classifications is very interesting, though the notion that scrutinizing past classifications can turn up underrated wines worth buying today is flawed since the fundamental heuristic for finding quality in Burgundy remains, in the end, the producer.

James Wilson's Terroir, now out of print, is invaluable for its chapter on Burgundy.

Clive Coates' books are really pretty out-of-date at this stage, and filled with vast numbers of obsolete and obsolescent tasting notes.

If you want a deep dive into a village, try Simon Loftus' Puligny-Montrachet.

There are also quite a few interesting French books.
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#17 Post by Art R » April 19th, 2018, 7:16 am

Climats et Lieux-Dits de Grands Vignobles de Bourgogne by Sylvain Pitiot at amazon.fr or amazon.co.uk
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#18 Post by Jay Miller » April 19th, 2018, 8:17 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
Great book, but if anyone wants to buy my copy for $1,411.16, let me know.

Ditto.
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#19 Post by Mark C Johnson » April 19th, 2018, 9:40 am

William Kelley wrote:Jasper is currently working on a new edition of Inside Burgundy, so you may want to hold off purchasing for a year, or just buy the ebook for now.
The ebook is really great with lots of interactive maps and such.
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#20 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » April 19th, 2018, 10:37 am

Nothing compares to Jasper's book, IMO.

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#21 Post by R Nanda » April 19th, 2018, 7:15 pm

William Kelley wrote:If you want a deep dive into a village, try Simon Loftus' Puligny-Montrachet.
Thanks for the suggestion. Ordered a copy from Amazon.
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#22 Post by Dave English » April 19th, 2018, 7:31 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
Howard Cooper wrote:
Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
Great book, but if anyone wants to buy my copy for $1,411.16, let me know.

Ditto.
I thought they did this as a placeholder until the book is back in stock/print, to save removing it and recreating it all over again they just put a silly price on it.

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#23 Post by James Billy » April 19th, 2018, 7:41 pm

I think it's someone hoping a cash in on a university or big business that needs it and is willing to pay whatever.

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#24 Post by John Morris » April 19th, 2018, 9:00 pm

James Billy wrote:I think it's someone hoping a cash in on a university or big business that needs it and is willing to pay whatever.
Institutions buy when books when they're first published. They don't wait till it's out of print. I think the Amazon sellers are looking for buyers like us -- people who want a unique, best-of-category work that's out of print. It's the same economic principle behind the $1,500 Toro, of which there are only 60 barrels. Very limited supply.

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#25 Post by Robert Grenley » April 19th, 2018, 10:32 pm

Pirom P. wrote:I'm trying to find out if there's a book or resource which list the Lieu-dit's of Burgundy and those which are tied to their respective growers. Specifically listing why that respective lieu-dit is different from their neighbor.

The big compendiums I don't think consistently have that information, for example where Richebourg is written about quite a bit, there's less on Chambertin.

Any ideas?
Are you talking about a book about Burgundy, in which case I think Jasper!s book is one of the best, or a book specifically about the Lieux-dits of Burgundy, in which case you could look into The Climats and Lieux-dits of the Great Vineyards of Burgundy by Sylvain Pitiot
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#26 Post by Dennis Borczon » April 20th, 2018, 12:03 pm

John Morris wrote:
Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
Probably not if it's out of print. Many out-of-print books shoot up in price, particularly hardbacks.

I co-authored a book in 2010. The hardback had a list price of $27 and sold at Barnes & Noble and Amazon for ~$20 (standard discount). When the paperback came out, the publisher stopped selling the hardback. There are hardbacks available via Amazon now from $179 to more than $1,000.


That is just insane. I thought actual prices of the wine were going out of sight. now even the books about Burgundy are getting hyperinflated? You could get a first edition of a classic signed by the author for not much more than that!

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#27 Post by maureen nelson » April 20th, 2018, 7:19 pm

Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
$75 from Sotheby’s

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#28 Post by NoahR » April 21st, 2018, 5:55 am

+1 on Pitiot English translation.
Don’t have the Morris book though.
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#29 Post by Ken V » April 21st, 2018, 6:03 pm

maureen nelson wrote:Try buying it from Sotheby’s
I did this to get the Jasper Morris book at a reasonable price. Great book. Great for figuring out whether Jean X is related to Jean Marc X or Jean Paul X or . . . . [cheers.gif]
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#30 Post by John Morris » April 21st, 2018, 6:11 pm

Dennis Borczon wrote:
John Morris wrote:I co-authored a book in 2010. The hardback had a list price of $27 and sold at Barnes & Noble and Amazon for ~$20 (standard discount). When the paperback came out, the publisher stopped selling the hardback. There are hardbacks available via Amazon now from $179 to more than $1,000.


That is just insane. I thought actual prices of the wine were going out of sight. now even the books about Burgundy are getting hyperinflated? You could get a first edition of a classic signed by the author for not much more than that!


If you buy my book, I'll be happy to autograph a copy in exchange for 50% of the increase in value ascribed to the autograph.
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#31 Post by A Songeur » April 23rd, 2018, 9:12 am

Very often, I can find what I want at a price 20 to 30% lower than Amazon given their marketing strategy (exploiting their dominant position) but 30 times the price???... this is cheeky! But anyway, I got it at a small discount on the list price (50€). Inside Burgundy is a super and competent book.
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#32 Post by Bob G » April 23rd, 2018, 9:35 pm

I quite liked the Bill Nanson book "The Finest Wines of Burgundy." In addition to a very good overview of Burgundy, the text covers the 100 finest wines, the Domaines they come from and the ownership and wine making teams. A nice portrait of the best producers and the best wines they produce with parcel information and production volume for each of the best wines. It may be a bit dated (2012 publication) but a very nice read. Bill sometimes posts here so he may be open to answering questions and providing further detail.
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#33 Post by A Songeur » April 24th, 2018, 9:17 am

Indeed, Bill's book is also quite good. Just lacks a few great producers especially in Nuits and Vosne but very good indeed including his list of great wines.
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#34 Post by William Kelley » April 24th, 2018, 10:45 am

maureen nelson wrote:
Alex Rychlewski wrote:You will have noticed, by the way, that Amazon lists the book as costing... $1,411.16.

That is obviously a mistake!!!

Alex R.
$75 from Sotheby’s

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Strongly recommend waiting for the forthcoming second edition. It should be out pretty soon.
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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#35 Post by Gaudissabois Johan » April 27th, 2020, 8:37 am

Hi everyone,

Jasper's book on BURGUNDY is great. Pity he does not rank the domaines. He is not that comprehensive as say COATES was in his days. Too many domaines are left "under discussed". Still I am eagerly awaiting his updated version due for early 2021. I also hope REMINGTON NORMAN gives us a new edition of his excellent Great Domaines of Burgundy. I still do not grasp the point of Alan Meadow's latest effort. What is the use of discussing vintages that old. I did not buy the book. His PEARL OF THE COTE was lots better but overemphasising on DRC. Do we truly believe that LA TACHE abd ROMANEE-CONTI left aside their RICHEBOURG, RSV, GRANDS ECHEZEAUX and ECHEZEAUX are the best on the market??? Don't think so.Still I hope Alan writes a new tome on the region. The best CHAMBERTINS ??????

GREETS GAUDISSABOIS JOHAN

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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#36 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » April 27th, 2020, 9:43 am

FWIW, Jasper's book remains the best. Clive Coates was good, but very limited to those domaines he tasted and , presumably, he favored. He did write some nice vignettes of those domaines in his Burgundy book. But, for me, tasting notes, which formed the basis of all of Clive's books, is not valuable..for one thing, they get easily dated and regimes change at domaines. For the other thing....it's a matter of "who do you trust".
I used to trust Burghound's pallet and integrity....and then came his involvement with the marketing and selling of RUDY K.

I'll look forward to early 2021 and Jasper's update. Thanks for the heads up.

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#37 Post by William Kelley » April 27th, 2020, 10:06 am

Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 8:37 am
I still do not grasp the point of Alan Meadow's latest effort. What is the use of discussing vintages that old. I did not buy the book.
If you had purchased and read the book, you would have grasped the point. It is a socioeconomic history of Burgundy, relating the region's history with the wines it produced. And it's the most interesting book on Burgundy published in the last twenty years. What's more, it has certainly contributed much more to the literature on Burgundy than a book on "the best Chambertins" would.

Given Remington Norman's age, I think you may be waiting some time for an updated edition.
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#38 Post by Mel Knox » April 27th, 2020, 10:28 am

Jasper Morris!

Get to work!! Your fans need you.
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#39 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 10:33 am

Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 8:37 am
Hi everyone,

Jasper's book on BURGUNDY is great. Pity he does not rank the domaines. He is not that comprehensive as say COATES was in his days. Too many domaines are left "under discussed". Still I am eagerly awaiting his updated version due for early 2021. I also hope REMINGTON NORMAN gives us a new edition of his excellent Great Domaines of Burgundy. I still do not grasp the point of Alan Meadow's latest effort. What is the use of discussing vintages that old. I did not buy the book. His PEARL OF THE COTE was lots better but overemphasising on DRC. Do we truly believe that LA TACHE abd ROMANEE-CONTI left aside their RICHEBOURG, RSV, GRANDS ECHEZEAUX and ECHEZEAUX are the best on the market??? Don't think so.Still I hope Alan writes a new tome on the region. The best CHAMBERTINS ??????

GREETS GAUDISSABOIS JOHAN
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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#40 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 10:36 am

I like Jasper Morris' book.

Also, two interesting Burgundy books are quite old.



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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#41 Post by Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow » April 27th, 2020, 12:06 pm

William Kelley wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 10:06 am
Gaudissabois Johan wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 8:37 am
I still do not grasp the point of Alan Meadow's latest effort. What is the use of discussing vintages that old. I did not buy the book.
If you had purchased and read the book, you would have grasped the point. It is a socioeconomic history of Burgundy, relating the region's history with the wines it produced. And it's the most interesting book on Burgundy published in the last twenty years. What's more, it has certainly contributed much more to the literature on Burgundy than a book on "the best Chambertins" would.

.
What IS his latest, anyway? I've lost "touch"......is it the book on Vosne-Romanee?

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#42 Post by Sean S y d n e y » April 27th, 2020, 12:19 pm

William Kelley wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 10:06 am
If you had purchased and read the book, you would have grasped the point. It is a socioeconomic history of Burgundy, relating the region's history with the wines it produced. And it's the most interesting book on Burgundy published in the last twenty years. What's more, it has certainly contributed much more to the literature on Burgundy than a book on "the best Chambertins" would.
I got my copy a couple months ago and it is really and truly wonderful. The vintage assessments make up a tiny fraction of the book and its value.
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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#43 Post by JasperMorris » April 27th, 2020, 1:10 pm

I have just reviewed the Meadows & Barzelay Vintages book for World of Fine Wine, should appear any day now - it is a brilliant book, as William suggests and does indeed break new ground.

Now back to work on my second edition - which will have a great deal more detail on who owns what of each lieu-dit, as the Original Post was interested in. Also, now that I am no longer trading in wine, I can express more opinions about producers which would not have been correct before.

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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#44 Post by Tom Blach » April 27th, 2020, 1:34 pm

William Kelley wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 10:06 am


Given Remington Norman's age, I think you may be waiting some time for an updated edition.
There is an updated edition. Unfortunately the revision is by another author and it has none of the distinction of the original.

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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#45 Post by Howard Cooper » April 27th, 2020, 3:12 pm

JasperMorris wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 1:10 pm
I have just reviewed the Meadows & Barzelay Vintages book for World of Fine Wine, should appear any day now - it is a brilliant book, as William suggests and does indeed break new ground.

Now back to work on my second edition - which will have a great deal more detail on who owns what of each lieu-dit, as the Original Post was interested in. Also, now that I am no longer trading in wine, I can express more opinions about producers which would not have been correct before.
Jasper,

I have loved your first edition. When would you expect the second edition to be published? I very much look forward to your opinions on producers.
Howard

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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#46 Post by TGigante » April 27th, 2020, 3:38 pm

This is a good book in an encyclopedic kind of way
This edition is from 2010 so might be a bit dated
Not sure if it has been updated

If anyone wants to borrow it, I’ll ship it over
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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#47 Post by Juliec » April 27th, 2020, 4:22 pm

TGigante wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 3:38 pm
This is a good book in an encyclopedic kind of way
This edition is from 2010 so might be a bit dated
Not sure if it has been updated

If anyone wants to borrow it, I’ll ship it over
I would. :). If op doesn’t get it first. Ty. I’ll send a pm.
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Re: Best books on Burgundy

#48 Post by TGigante » April 27th, 2020, 4:45 pm

Juliec wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 4:22 pm
TGigante wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 3:38 pm
This is a good book in an encyclopedic kind of way
This edition is from 2010 so might be a bit dated
Not sure if it has been updated

If anyone wants to borrow it, I’ll ship it over
I would. :). If op doesn’t get it first. Ty. I’ll send a pm.
Ok Julie
I’ll send it over
Cheers,
Tony

Maxwell A.
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Joined: October 12th, 2018, 9:48 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Best books on Burgundy

#49 Post by Maxwell A. » April 27th, 2020, 6:50 pm

I own 10-15 books on Burgundy and "Inside Burgundy" by Jasper is the one I've gone back to most. Definitely the first I'd recommend for someone really wanting to dive into Burgundy and get a good idea of producers in each village, what their holdings are, info about all the GC, 1er and important village level vineyards etc.

If you want to read about the most famous terroirs, Remington Norman's "Grand Cru" is a good option. It's helpful in getting a better grasp on the Grand Crus and will make you want to go spend a lot of money...

I am very happy with "A History from 1845" by Meadows and Barzelay. It's a must-have for any serious Burgundy lover.

There's some good info. in the Coates books but I agree with others that a lot of it is out of date or heading in that direction.
Max Andrle

Instagram - musignymax

Juliec
Posts: 202
Joined: August 16th, 2019, 3:57 pm

Re: Best books on Burgundy

#50 Post by Juliec » April 27th, 2020, 7:08 pm

Thank you Tony! (All, I did realize that there are eBooks that are online and available for Inside Burgundy, so I’ll probably purchase them first.) Also, I agree to the Climats book, it is comprehensive with maps. Thanks everyone for sharing the knowledge about specific books. Meadows has a little shipping disc. on the site for his book. (FYI, there is a eBay book for about 385. Still too high. I have a feeling it’s a book that is obscure enough to be a some used book bins that are not online, but then not so available that it is everywhere.)

To turn the question a bit, what reviewers follow or references /use for individual commendations and reference points? (Still in the Burgundy frame of subject). Are they generally equal, or do you see a lens on each one? I’ve been following BH. Didn’t know what individual experiences were with Jasper Morris’ site or Jancis Robinson. In wine, each bit of support or advice has been monetized (understandable as ppl need to support themselves). That why we have to be thankful for WB!!, prince of pinot, CT, and w-s.

Also, another great resource is the French tourism bureau or burgundy vintners that have a very comprehensive overview of the regions, terriors and lieu-dits.
hong

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