Why do we think acidity helps wines to age well?

Serious question. A comment in the Gruner thread reminded me that I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time. Why is there this common “knowledge” that acidity helps wines to age well? Because it says so in so many wine books? I can’t think of any actual evidence that supports this theory. There are many highly acidic wines that won’t develop in any positive sense with age. There are also many wines without much acidity at all that age great, even for quite a long time. I don’t think there’s much actual knowledge in this “fact” that gets repeated so often. [stirthepothal.gif]

For a few examples, there are tons of high acid whites (Vinho Verde, most Muscadet, most Loire SB) that won’t develop in any positive sense, let alone improve with age. Ditto some fairly brisk reds like many from the Loire, Austria, and Germany. You might think this is partially because the wines I’m talking about aren’t of high enough quality to age, but why, then, do we think acidity plays a part at all when there are wines like Hermitage Blanc, white and red Rioja, and Bordeaux that don’t have a whole lot of acidity yet can make for revelatory old wines? I’m convinced that quality is very much a factor here, but not acidity.

Even within categories, we’re told that more acidic vintages of, for example, German Riesling will be the long lived vintages. What about 2003? What about certain really ripe vintages of Bordeaux that seem to be doing just fine with age, and even better than many vintages with more acidity? Again, you can make the quality argument, but then why do we think acid is a factor at all?

What do you think?

My understanding is that acidity acts as an anti-oxidant, much like squeezing citrus juice on fruit to keep it from discoloring.
There has to be something else underlying that develops with time, provided that the wine does not oxidize before the development occurs.

because tannins fade and acidity is required remain in balance…very generally speaking.

Don’t confuse the ability to survive with ability to gain complexity. Tannins and acid help preserve wines, but their presence doesn’t ensure that the wine will become more complex.

I’ve never heard that said. In any event, sugar is also a preservative/anti-oxidant, so very sweet wines generally last a long time. Hence, with sweet riesling it’s more complicated than mere acid levels.

Somebody call? LOL

Like John’s response.

Are there high alcohol / low acid wines that are age worthy? Lots of examples, KB in the day, where they are not.

It’s not acidity per se that helps with aging, but a lower pH which increases the antioxidant potential of various compounds in the wine (tannins, sulfites, etc.) Higher pH/higher tannin wines typically have plenty of antioxidant compounds (tannins) to age on. Acidity, while somewhat tied to pH does not always correlate to high acid/low pH, low acid/high pH as other compounds such as K+, Ca++, etc. can interfere with that classic dynamic.

Regards,
Brian Maloney
DeLoach Vineyards

Generally speaking, hi acid wines have lower pHs. The lower the pH, the better the wine will withhold oxidative pressures, all things equal.

There are of course many other potential reasons, but chemically speaking, this is a big one.

Cheers

I think the answer is that acid is just one element that can help preserve a wine so it can develop complexity. Other preservatives include tannins and other phenols (from skin contact or aging in wood), extract more generally (the ratio of water to other things) and sugar. Vinho verde, Muscadet and Loire sauvignon blanc tend to be very low on all those other things. Lighter reds can be, too.

Your other examples I think are just wrong. Good Hermitage blanc (e.g., Chave) has lots of acid, and traditional Rioja, both red and white, is quite acidic. And I don’t think of Bordeaux, white or red, being low acid, though they can be full-bodied. In any event, Bordeaux has lots of extract and it spends a lot of time in wood.

I think you may be assuming that full-bodied wines are low in acidity, but that’s not necessarily true. The level of fruit and alcohol can balance and mask the acidity.

The Wikipedia entry on aging of wine and the one on acid in wine have a lot of info on this. Acids support sulfur dioxide, they deter bacterial growth, they help protect pigments and they protect against browning.

It’s a little late since April 1st, so I’m assuming this isn’t a joke. Remember, it’s all about balance. Acidity plays a part, but there are many other ingredients to a wine’s success.
And Muscadet does age, beautifully.

I am happy to see so many winemakers contributing to this thread! :slight_smile:


My knee-jerk reaction was to consider the OP’s question to be rhetorical: pointing out to readers that coincidence does not equal causation.


However, many age-worthy wines - white, red, and in-between - commonly do possess high enough acidity to surpass the general sensory threshold of drinkers. I believe it is a contributing element for many ageable wines (perhaps a wine’s pH level is the true, scientific factor in such cases).

All cellar-worthy bottles probably do not possess lower pH levels. There are other factors that can aid in a wine’s long lifespan (residual sugar levels, yes). Moreover, the presence of several contributing elements in a bottle of wine would improve the total odds of the product lasting longer than others.


You know what? I do think that the OP was just stirring the pot!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

In addition to the more expert chemical opinions here, acidity fades with age IME so if you want a wine to develop and hold for a long time and be balanced when mature, there needs to be enough acidity to last.

I think that’s actually not the case. Tannins are altered and become softer, but acid remains fairly constant.

I’ve never quite understood the claim that acidity creates ageability in a wine, in and of itself. My own opinion is that acidity is a marker for the ripeness of the fruit that went into the wine, which is the more important factor in how a wine will age. If you took a high alcohol, lower acid wine, and added some additional acidity to it, I don’t believe that acidified wine would age particularly better than its non-acidified version.

Do acidic posts age better?

This sounds like there could be exceptions… high acid and high pH. How could that happen? Chemistry was not my forte, rather it was physics by I thought that pH was a measure of acidity or alkalinity.

Can’t speak for Muscadet but had a 2006 Melon de Bourgogne from Ontario (Norm Hardie) a couple of weeks ago and it was delicious. Under screwcap which maybe is cheating but it had developed some secondary flavours while keeping freshness. Acidity was low to moderate. (This was an odd bottle that surfaced in a corner of the cellar so I can’t comment on the evolution alas).
Not exactly old but not fresh out of the barrel either.

Again, there’s a lot of potential for misunderstanding here depending on what you mean by aging, I’m not sure if you mean (a) evolving complexity or (b) merely surviving/not fading/not cracking up/not oxidizing. What I’m talking about is (b).

You’re the chemist, but from what I’ve read (and I posted this above), acid itself enhances sulfur dioxide as a preservative, deters bacterial growth, helps protect pigments and protects against browning. That suggests that, other things being equal (which they never are with wine), even acid additions would help preserve a wine.

He made a good point. I think there’s a bit of both there. If you pick later than an optimal point. you may be losing both the stuff that will help a wine evolve well and several stabilizing factors. Merely restoring the level of one preservative might not even give you a stable wine.

Then again, most wineries don’t like to talk about it, but some sites yield very high pH at moderate brix. I guarantee Alan’s loved wines picked at moderate/optimal ripeness that required a huge acid add, which do age and evolve very well.

How are “high acid” and “low pH” not synonymous?

The same concentrations of sulphuric acid and acetic acid have different pH.