My wife and I will be in France to visit Champagne and the Loire. Having not visited there before, I have some curiosity as to how to think about these visits based on the customs of the local area. I am making visit appointments with only small houses, so the connections are being made already via email reachouts with those producers who I buy and drink already. So, I am not looking for suggestions on who to visit, but instead to make these visits as successful as we can. I speak no French, yet my wife speaks some and is working to refresh what she learned some time ago.
With that said, here are my questions for those who want to have input. Thank you in advance for your replies:
Is there anything specific we need to think to keep top of mind about how to engage when we arrive? Is it cool/acceptable to bring a gift, say something from CA that I like that I would like to offer?
In some instances, a few of our proposed stops do not speak much English. Is that a visit buster with respect to really being able to engage, taste and in some instances, tour with the owner/chef du cave?
Is there any custom around timeliness, visitation?
Any other best practice or good manners type of things to recommend? Relationships and respect is always how I want to lead so anything around how to bring that to the fore within the French customs in our visits would be good to know.
FM3, let me somewhat ignore your specific questions/directives and say the following based on our trip to Champagne & Alsace last year:
I know you will have a great deck of houses to visit, but if you need any gaps to fill, I would highly recommend visits to Larmandier-Bernier and De Sousa. Both speak English well, have great wines, and are relatively close to each other (Champagne is huge). If not staying at Selosse’s place, I would recommend hitting it for lunch. Although we stayed in a great Airbnb in Epernay (with a washer & dryer that made a week+ so easy to pack for), we were dragging my mom and would recommend Selosse’s Hotel for a couple. If picking a city to stay in, I strongly preferred Epernay over Reims.
We did not bring gifts, but they are definitely welcomed and I wish I had remembered them for the small houses.
As far as navigating French only houses, we spoke 0 and hired Jiles to accompany us for those visits (e.g., Godme etc). He can drive too if you like: http://www.mymaninchampagne.com/ Just be specific about your itinerary demands. Mrs. FM3 could probably handle it, but a 100% translator like Jiles that can also drive (if you choose) can make those visits better imo. He can also get you in some very difficult places that might not be an option without a Distributor helping you. If you want to remove all stress, just give him your dream list and let him schedule it all.
Another thing I would note is to give yourself 2 hrs per visit. Nearly every house has to tour the cellars and walk you through the process of making Champagne. You will wake-up in the middle of the night reciting the process if you are there a few days.
Ruinart, if you do any large house, is a nice visit and their chalk caves are fairly neat to see. Also, don’t skip the Cathedral in Reims. It is amazing. If you need a meal in Reims, we loved Racine. Great food, great space, great list.
Frank, your idea of bringing gifts is an excellent one. John’s advice is good if French is a problem. Obviously language can be a huge barrier otherwise.
I just fished out some Loire restaurant info for Nathan V which might interest you too:
Hi Frank, glad it’s coming to together as a reality! Good questions, and (I think) pretty easy answers: Gifts are never a bad thing. I’ve done it with California wines, some specialty foods, whatever moves you as a nice gesture. Being on time is never bad, better you wait then them We’ve done a couple of visits where there was not good communication; it can work, as long as you try, and are enthusiastic (not a problem for you, I know). With phones and google translate, you can actually make a lot of progress even with someone who speaks no english. You already know quite a few wine terms in French, so you have something there.
I know you didn’t ask for visit recs, but here are two that I would like to do on my next trip to Loire: Guiberteau, and Jacky Blot at Domaine de la Taille Aux Loups. I’d give you a Champagne rec, but I got that one from you
Web, thanks for the advice, pal. I’ll take a look at Larmandier-B, as I own their wines and like their approach. I’m targeting just 2 visits a day and I have 6-7 targeted already in Champagne so let me see how it shakes out. Also, with Godme, did you visit? I have been trading some emails with Hugues and he has good command of English is my take…did you not find that when you were there? I’ll take a look at the Selosse place and also Racine. As for the guide, will look into that, too. My sense is that Jill has enough French to pull this off, so with the balance of getting the trip plan dialed and her French, we might be able to do this on our own OK.
Julian, the castle looks like a cool place to lodge. I will show it to the Boss and let her take a look at it. We do need a night in Loire so it might work out well. Moulin Fleuri has a terrific menu that could work well and will show that to her, too. Again, thank you for the suggestions, I appreciate them.
Alan, I’ll look at Guiberteau. Had had their stuff before and really liked it. Perhaps we can squeeze this in with Chidaine and Baudry.
Thanks again guys.
To everyone else, if you have a suggestion or reply to my post, please offer it. No suggestion is a bad one and I appreciate anything you want to post. I will look at everything.
I scheduled most of my visits, but Jiles took care of Huges Godme among a couple of others. On our visit, which is essentially to a small office, the Mrs. hosted and she did not speak a lick of English. Very welcoming and nice, but it definitely helped to have a translator. For you, i’m sure Jill can cover it. It is not like you will be getting into deep philosophical conversations.
2 visits with a nice lunch will be great. You can always fill-in with walk-in spots in Epernay if you want.
FMIII, my wife and I have been to champagne several times in the last few years. Each time I have either called and/or emailed the champagne house requesting a tasting; in the emails, I send in both English and French. We don’t speak French and have had tastings where google translate was the only method of communication (Jean Milan, Blondel, and Vazart Coquart to name a few). Two of our favorite places to visit are Gimmonet and Bereche, both fluent in English and create a personal service with great wines.
We never brought American wines but we always bought champagne at each house to bring home. As far as timing of visitation, generally everywhere is closed from noon-2 and on Sunday; most small houses are closed on Saturday also.
Hope all goes well, the champagne region is one of my favorite places in the world.
Interesting. I have also visited them while the Mrs. was hosting and we managed to spend ~1,5 hours there without any French words spoken besides wine/winemaking-related ones That being said it did seem to take a while before our host really felt comfortable speaking English.
Julian,
Have you eaten at Olivier Arlot’s new place, L’atelier Olivier Arlot, located on the quai across the river from Tours, in Saint-Cyr-sur-Loire? I very much enjoyed his previous restaurants, Restaurant Olivier Arlot in Tours and Restaurant La Chanceliere in Montbazon.
Mark -no sadly I haven’t - those pesky things they call children have stopped us going back to that area recently. Couldn’t help chuckle at the children’s menu - beef kebab with foie gras sauce!!!
We’ve been to Champagne and the Loire a number of times and, based on those experiences, you’ll be fine. I speak no French but between my wife’s limited French, my knowledge of wine terms and the often very basic English of the host, we’ve always gotten by. Particularly when your host knows you enjoy and buy their wines, everyone wants to share information and comments and manages to do so. The one exception I can remember in the areas to which you’re traveling is Foreau some years back. I had limited knowledge of Vouvray at the time and our host had absolutely no English at all. It was still a nice visit. (Huet, literally right down the road, was no problem.)
As anywhere, promptness is expected and appreciated. Your host is giving up part of his or her day for you, particularly at the small houses, so be kind. That doesn’t mean they won’t see you if you’re late, but it impacts the visit. Our GPS broke the morning we had an appointment at Vilmart and we got lost. We called to say we’d be late and our host was very nice about it, but we clearly got a shortened visit - completely understandable as I’m sure she had other things planned that day.
I’ve never understood the concept of bringing a gift, unless I’ve been invited to dine with the owner/staff. Do you bring a gift to a California winery you visit? On the other hand, I always buy something (preferably something I can’t get in the US) unless I’m meeting with the owner of a very small house in which he or she is not set up for or used to sales.
Even though you’ve got appointments set, be aware that a lot of houses in Champagne are now open for walk in tastings. Sometimes it’s just a tasting but sometimes you get an improvised tour that can be very informative and enjoyable. Something to think about as you’re driving or walking by and have time available in your day. Depending on how many visits you’ve scheduled (assume 1 1/2 to 2 hours a visit), how much travel time you need between visits and how long you leave for lunch, you could easily have time to fill.
I don’t know what part of the Loire you’re going to but there are also a lot of walk in degustations in the area around the chateaux. You have to be selective, though. A lot are small farmer producers whose wines are not very good.
If you are near the chateaux, make sure you leave time to visit one or more, even if you’ve planned a mainly wine-centric trip. They are beautiful and filled with history.
I would echo others above and add that punctuality is key. You can get by the language aspect. The gift idea is interesting, wondering what you were thinking of bringing, wine or food or what from California?
Hey, thanks for the new posts and to Jeff, for the care in his posting. Appreciate that, Jeff.
I’m getting more to the point of skipping Loire this time as it just seems out of the way given the amount of stops we can do (2 per day) and not having to chew time driving to and from Tours. If we’re in the Montage and the Aube, that seems like enough for 4-5 days with 2 stops (max) per day. I don’t want to rush the visits and so doing a late AM and late afternoon per day seems more practical. Thoughts on that?
As for getting around Champagne, does it make the most sense to get a rental car in Champagne-Ardenne? It seems the rental car places there are Mon-Fri only, no? Is it customary in the area to not have rental car places open on the weekend? My plan was to get us to Champagne on Sunday afternoon and get a car so we are ready on Monday AM to head to our first place. Any thoughts on this?
As for GPS, is it a safe and sound bet to just use GPS via Google Maps on our cell phones versus anything provided by the rental car people?
Frank, depending on your exact itinerary, your best bet IMO is to get the car at CDG on arrival. Particularly on a Sunday, when traffic is lighter driving out to Champagne, and when local rental agencies are likely to be closed. Rates may also be cheaper at the airport. Airport agencies are pretty much always open, don’t close for holidays, etc.
I have used GPS in a car, but the past few trips I have used my phone instead, and it has worked well. Only issue is making sure you have a decent data plan that doesn’t cost you too much. There are a couple of threads on that topic in Travel forum I think.
Alan, that makes sense. I was locked into the train idea but if you think the pick up at CDG is the better way to go, then I’ll use that thinking and we’ll just commute out to/back from Champagne.
Kris, I forgot to address your post y/day. Yes, the gift I had in mind was going to be CA wines, to bring something from here over to there, to share.
I haven’t taken the train from CDG (assuming that’s your entry) and Reims, but it does look pretty easy. It’s worth exploring if there is a rental outlet that’s open on Sunday, if you do want to avoid driving out of Paris. But on a Sunday, you’re already well outside of the city, and it’s not a bad drive at all, especially for someone used to driving around Orange County, lol. About an hour trip by train, otherwise maybe 1.5 to drive, but then you don’t have to deal with getting the car on the other end. It might make a lot more sense to drop the car in Reims and train back, if you’re return is on a weekday. Depending on how much they want to charge you for dropping at a different location. On our trip last fall it was worth exploring different rental companies, different locations, because the prices and drop fees were all over the map.
Just looked at Hertz, Avis, and Europecar, all are closed on Sunday in Reims.
I would definitely pick up the car at CDG if you’re arriving on Sunday. It will be, as noted, an easy drive and it’s not unusual for facilities away from cities and airports to have limited hours. Then again, I always pick up the car at CDG. I don’t like having to deal with luggage, particularly wine, on a train and I like to drive. Also as noted, allow for traffic around Paris when you’re coming back and try to avoid doing so in rush hour (which is actually several hours).
I’ve done very well in France with my Garmin, using the phone as back up if needed (note to anyone reading who is going to Italy - GPS is not nearly as accurate in the Piedmont or Tuscany; locals will advise you to use Google maps on your phone). If you’ve got an inexpensive plan to use the phone in France, though, that should be fine. I’ve never felt the need to rent one with the car. In fact, on our last several trips to Europe, the cars have come loaded with GPS. You just have to figure out how to change the language setting, which really isn’t difficult.
2 visits a day is a good plan, leaving time for a leisurely lunch and walking around the towns. Research locations when you plan your visits, i.e. group visits around Epernay the same day and do some closer to Reims or in the smaller towns on another day. While getting from Reims to Epernay is easy, it still takes some time. As noted above, if you find yourself with extra time, there are plenty of wine and non-wine ways to fill it.
I have no info for you responsive to your questions but in classic Berserker tradition offer these tips on questions you did not ask:
Eat at Les Crayeres. An all-time top 10 dining experience for us. Their wine list is a phone-book sized encyclopedia of champagnes you have never seen or heard of (as well as those you have always wanted to drink). The somm we had was fabulous and extremely indulgent; although I spent far too long looking at the list we ultimately gave him a budget and he picked 2 bottles for us that one rarely/never sees in the states. Fantastic.
Shop at Caves du Forum. Go down into the cellar and just go wild. Unbelievable selection.
Leave more time than you might think necessary to visit the cathedral in Reims. Amazing place.
We’ve done a couple of visits where there was not good communication; it can work, as long as you try, and are enthusiastic (not a problem for you, I know). With phones and google translate, you can actually make a lot of progress even with someone who speaks no english. You already know quite a few wine terms in French, so you have something there.![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
That being said it did seem to take a while before our host really felt comfortable speaking English.
Nice to see another from San Antonio on the board (esp. one that likes Bereche)! We are rare.