Wine drinking in France sucks

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Alan Eden
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Wine drinking in France sucks

#1 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 4:16 am

Just been in several places in France for the last week on business.

As it was business we eat out at reasonably good places most days, the wine overall sucked. The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines and a few token BDX. Burg and Rhone. The wines were very expensive and generally bland for example a local wine like Jurancon or Tennat ( excuse spelling ) in the South was still $50 in a local bistro despite tasting to me like a $10 table wine. Get into Paris and dont even bother !! my business associate ordered a bottle of Chasse Spleen 14 for $100 in a steakhouse, actually not too bad but then it came and he had not picked up it was the second wine, it was palettable for $10-12, not $100.

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.

Let me be very clear, if the French had to compete on the same terms as US wines they would get their ass kicked. Im sorry, i know a lot of people here like the French tasteless watery stagnant wines because they feel it is sophisticated to hunt for but when your buying wines for business clients $50 ( which is a limit for a lot of corporation people ) just gets you so much more in US wine

So if you want good value french wine eat in USA and if you want the best wines for the price drink US wines in the USA

I know there are a million places like Spain, italy, Chile, Australia that this is not the case, lets keep this strictly about France
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#2 Post by James Billy » March 4th, 2018, 4:29 am

French wine is the worst. Boooo!!!!!!!

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#3 Post by Chris V. » March 4th, 2018, 4:43 am

Alan Eden wrote:Im sorry, i know a lot of people here like the French tasteless watery stagnant wines because they feel it is sophisticated to hunt for but when your buying wines for business clients $50 ( which is a limit for a lot of corporation people ) just gets you so much more in US wine
Can you give an example of a business dinner situation where you spent $50 on a bottle of wine that you really enjoyed? I honestly can't remember the last time I was at a business dinner where the cheapest bottle on the list was $50 or less.
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#4 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 4th, 2018, 4:49 am

Is it possible that they indentified you as a boor when you walked in, and thus gave you the ugly American menu?

I have no clue where you went, whether you checked out their wine list in advance, or whether you know anything about French wine - I seem to recall you posting mostly about California wines - but my experience in France is dramatically different.

I’m surprised you didn’t notice it was the second label, and therefore have sent it back.

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#5 Post by Russell Faulkner » March 4th, 2018, 5:05 am

Don’t feed it!

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#6 Post by Marc Frontario » March 4th, 2018, 5:17 am

France absolutely destroys the US in wines under $50....it's not even close...jmho :)
Last edited by Marc Frontario on March 4th, 2018, 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#7 Post by Ian Sutton » March 4th, 2018, 5:17 am

Yes, another trolling post by the OP. No value in engaging.
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#8 Post by David Lobe » March 4th, 2018, 5:30 am

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:Is it possible that they indentified you as a boor when you walked in, and thus gave you the ugly American menu?

I have no clue where you went, whether you checked out their wine list in advance, or whether you know anything about French wine - I seem to recall you posting mostly about California wines - but my experience in France is dramatically different.

I’m surprised you didn’t notice it was the second label, and therefore have sent it back.
Ditto to your comments Robert.

I have been to France over 15 times and never had this issue...you need to research the places you go to, get recommendations and plan ahead. Part of this is a really about what type of wine you like as you seem to have a more Cali centered palate and this can be challenging in France as they don't rate Cali wines very highly.

Having said that, if I had to be constrained to only drinking California wines while in California....I too would go crazey as they don't generally float my boat.

Bottom line....do some research ahead of time when travelling.

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#9 Post by Howard Cooper » March 4th, 2018, 5:53 am

There is one thing that really feels fake about the OP post. In general, I have found markups at US restaurants to be much higher than markups in European restaurants. I don't know where he went and anything else about his trip except vague generalities, but while I can imagine $20 wines (around current US cellar tracker price of the 2014 of the second wines of Chasse Spleen) costing $100 in top NY restaurants (and have seen these types of markups many times), I have never seen anything like that type of markup in a French restaurant. Have any of you?

Look, it is easy to imagine someone who only likes fruit bombs like the OP going to France and not liking any of the wines. In fact, I would expect for him not to like any wines in France. But, the markup story just does not ring true to me.
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#10 Post by Paul Jaouen » March 4th, 2018, 6:02 am

Robert Alfert, Jr. wrote:Is it possible that they indentified you as a boor when you walked in, and thus gave you the ugly American menu?
[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [dance-clap.gif] [dance-clap.gif]
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#11 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 4th, 2018, 6:26 am

Thanks for the chuckle Alan
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#12 Post by John Morris » March 4th, 2018, 6:37 am

Alan Eden wrote:The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines....

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.
I guess you've never traveled in Europe. In Tuscany, you won't find Piedmont wines in the stores or on restaurant lists, or vice versa. And you're unlikely to find an Italian or French wine in a Spanish restaurant.

The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
Last edited by John Morris on March 4th, 2018, 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#13 Post by cjsavino » March 4th, 2018, 6:39 am

Probably had bad stemware too
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#14 Post by Julian Marshall » March 4th, 2018, 6:39 am

The wines were very expensive and generally bland for example a local wine like Jurancon or Tennat ( excuse spelling ) in the South was still $50 in a local bistro despite tasting to me like a $10 table wine.
Presumably you were somewhere like Pau? Of course they would sell and support local wines, just like any other wine-producing region would. There are excellent Jurançons, and wonderful Madirans: did you ask for advice as to what to choose?

The Chasse-Spleen story sounds a little odd. Normally the mark-up in a restaurant is 3. There aren't many wines in any restaurant on sale for $10 for obvious reasons. Perhaps you were just had - this could have happened anywhere else in the world, or maybe they just brought the wrong bottle by mistake.

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#15 Post by John Morris » March 4th, 2018, 6:42 am

Julian Marshall wrote: The Chasse-Spleen story sounds a little odd. Normally the mark-up in a restaurant is 3. There aren't many wines in any restaurant on sale for $10 for obvious reasons. Perhaps you were just had - this could have happened anywhere else in the world, or maybe they just brought the wrong bottle by mistake.
In Europe, restaurant prices are often close to retail, actually. But perhaps not in the Paris steakhouse where Alan ate.
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#16 Post by Craig G » March 4th, 2018, 6:43 am

Alan should never eat in a restaurant that would have him as a customer.
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#17 Post by M. Dildine » March 4th, 2018, 7:15 am

Here's a cozy little spot for you Francophiles - L’Ami Louis!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2011/0 ... uis-201104
What you actually find when you arrive at L’Ami Louis is singularly unprepossessing. It’s a long, dark corridor with luggage racks stretching the length of the room. It gives you the feeling of being in a second-class railway carriage in the Balkans. It’s painted a shiny, distressed dung brown. The cramped tables are set with labially pink cloths, which give it a colonic appeal and the awkward sense that you might be a suppository. In the middle of the room is a stubby stove that also looks vaguely proctological.

At the end of the dining room is the tiny kitchen and an even tinier bar, where the waiters lurk like extras for a Gallic version of The Sopranos. The staff are an essential part of Louis’s mystique. Paunchy, combative, surly men, bulging out of their white jackets with the meaty malevolence of gouty buffalo. They may well be related by blood—theirs or other people’s. They exude a pantomime insolence, an existential Le Fug Youse. As you walk in, one approaches with an eyebrow raised and nose aloft to give you the benefit of full-frontal froggy nostril. If you get past the door, and many don’t, the first thing your waiter does is take your coat. The next thing he does is fling it with effortful nonchalance into the luggage rack. Returning customers know to keep wallets, BlackBerrys, and spectacles out of their pockets. As it is, a tinkling dandruff of change scuttles behind the banquettes.

We are sat at a table by the door. Our particular chubby, oyster-eyed fellow dumps off a pair of menus and a large book without a word or the offer of a drink. The menu is brief and bloody. The tome is the wine list. It turns out to be a massive eulogy to claret. Every grand château and vintage is represented with sycophantic prices. The wine cellar is behind the lavatory in a crypt that smells overpoweringly of fetid bladder damp. After a lot of smiley semaphore, I manage to beg a single glass of house red for my companion.

We order foie gras and snails to start. Foie gras is a L’Ami Louis specialty. After 30 minutes what come are a pair of intimidatingly gross flabs of chilly pâté, with a slight coating of pustular yellow fat. They are dense and stringy, with a web of veins. I doubt they were made on the premises. The liver crumbles under the knife like plumber’s putty and tastes faintly of gut-scented butter or pressed liposuction. The fat clings to the roof of my mouth with the oleaginous insistence of dentist’s wax.

As I suck my teeth, I watch the waiters saunter up and down the aisle like Vichy ticket collectors. Another one appears. Not fat, not white, not a caricature. A lithe, handsome boy, who is probably North African. He is plainly a prop. His job is to be wrong, to soak up blame. The big men bully up, roll their eyes, wave their chubby knuckles at him as he delivers and clears and sweeps crumbs. A man pretends to cuff him round the ear and looks over at a table of Americans with a grin and a wink to include them in the jape.

An Englishman in blinding tweed and racy cap pushes through the door and roars. A waiter steps forward, arms outstretched, and makes hee-haw, hee-haw noises like Bart Simpson pretending to speak French. It is the practiced and familiar ritual greeting of mutual incomprehension and ancient contempt. Our servant glides past and does a silent-movie double take. “Your snails!” he exclaims. “They have not come!” His cheeks bulge as he flaps his short arms. In all my years of professional eating, I have never seen this before. I have seen waiters do many, many things, including burst into tears and juggle knives, and I once glimpsed one having sex. But never, ever has a waiter commiserated with me about the lack of service.

Twenty minutes later, possibly under their own steam, the snails arrive. Vesuvian, they bubble and smoke in a magma of astringent garlic butter and parsley. We grasp them with the spring-loaded specula and gingerly unwind the dark gastropods, curling like dinosaur boogers. They go on and on, expanding onto the plate as if they were alien. We have to cut them in half, which is just wrong. The rule with snails is: Don’t eat one you couldn’t get up your nose.

Twenty minutes later, our plates are taken away. Twenty minutes after that, our main courses arrive. Or rather, my companion’s does. A veal chop, utterly plain, unaccompanied or sullied by decoration or inspiration. Just an awkwardly butchered skinny rib that has been grilled for too long on one side and too little on the other so that it is simultaneously stingingly dry and overdone and flabbily, slimily raw. She can’t decide which side to complain about.

I have decided not to go for the famous roast chicken, mainly because I’ve suffered it before and I’d just been watching a Japanese couple wrestle with one like a manga poltergeist from some Tokyo horror movie, its scaly blue legs stabbing the air. So on to the broiled kidneys. Nothing I have eaten or heard of being eaten here prepared me for the arrival of the veal kidneys en brochette. Somehow the heat had welded them together into a gray, suppurating renal brick. It could be the result of an accident involving rat babies in a nuclear reactor. They don’t taste as nice as they sound.

As an afterthought, or perhaps as an apology, the waiter brings a funeral pyre of French fries—they taste of seared and overused cooking oil—and then a green salad of frisée and mâche, two leaves that rarely share a bowl, due to their irreconcilable differences. They have been doused in vinegar that may have been recycled from the gherkin bottle. Dessert is four balls of gray ice cream and something that had once been chocolate.
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#18 Post by Jeremy C » March 4th, 2018, 7:17 am

John Morris wrote: The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
Surely, this was in jest. In truth, I'm guessing cultural differences and the three-tier system play significant roles in this.
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#19 Post by Victor Hong » March 4th, 2018, 7:28 am

The wine lists at most entertainment-amenable restaurants seem to be like hair-trigger landmine fields, perhaps by deliberate design. The host implicitly faces two bad alternatives, sheepish embarrassment for not selecting the far-overpriced wines, versus painful explanation or even rejection when submitting the expense reports. That is why I bring my own wines, even to business dinners.

Because we research, collect, and taste so many different wines, we are far more likely than the average restaurant patron to know when we have stepped into a landmine field.....which still might not prevent us from being blown to smithereens.
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#20 Post by Scott G r u n e r » March 4th, 2018, 7:28 am

John Morris wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines....

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.

The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
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#21 Post by Brian Tuite » March 4th, 2018, 7:45 am

Victor Hong wrote:The wine lists at most entertainment-amenable restaurants seem to be like hair-trigger landmine fields, perhaps by deliberate design. The host implicitly faces two bad alternatives, sheepish embarrassment for not selecting the far-overpriced wines, versus painful explanation or even rejection when submitting the expense reports. That is why I bring my own wines, even to business dinners.

Because we research, collect, and taste so many different wines, we are far more likely than the average restaurant patron to know when we have stepped into a landmine field.....which still might not prevent us from being blown to smithereens.
Yeah, Alan should have brought a Saxum or a Kosta Browneand told them to stop pouring their insipid swill and serve him a real Murican wine.
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#22 Post by Craig G » March 4th, 2018, 7:47 am

Twenty minutes later, possibly under their own steam, the snails arrive.
[snort.gif]
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#23 Post by R Greene » March 4th, 2018, 7:52 am

Alan:

1) If you travel through Europe, you'll notice that wine lists are dominated by their country's own wines (see other comment above).

2) I've traveled to France very often, mostly to Bordeaux and Northern Rhône. I have had only positive experiences at restaurants, in regards to wine selection and value. For instance, in Saint-Emilion, I have been introduced to some fantastic <$50 wines that you can't fine here in the U.S. It just takes an open mind, a little research, and a brief conversation with the waiter/somm.

3) Calling French wines "tasteless watery stagnant" is laughable.
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#24 Post by Jeremy C » March 4th, 2018, 7:53 am

Scott G r u n e r wrote:
John Morris wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines....

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.

The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
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#25 Post by Julian Marshall » March 4th, 2018, 8:01 am

In Europe, restaurant prices are often close to retail, actually. But perhaps not in the Paris steakhouse where Alan ate.
I agree it may seem that way, because some know where and how to buy wine! But we have to make a 3x mark-up for tax reasons: if the inspector sees less than 3 in the books, he suspects fraud; likewise if it's over 3 - both lead to closer scrutiny! Another reason for regional preference - costs are lower.
This is why in the past, when EP made sense, one could find incredible Bordeaux bargains in restaurants. Sadly, not any more.
Off track here, but since I know you like Loire reds, if you ever plan a trip to the Loire, I'll give you the name of a wonderful restaurant (for the wine, not the food) where you can find the most extraordinary cellar anywhere with very old wines sold by the glass.

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#26 Post by John Morris » March 4th, 2018, 8:10 am

Craig G wrote:
Twenty minutes later, possibly under their own steam, the snails arrive.
[snort.gif]
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#27 Post by John Morris » March 4th, 2018, 8:11 am

Julian Marshall wrote: Off track here, but since I know you like Loire reds, if you ever plan a trip to the Loire, I'll give you the name of a wonderful restaurant (for the wine, not the food) where you can find the most extraordinary cellar anywhere with very old wines sold by the glass.

Thanks! I'll remember that.

And I think the best thing that could happen to this thread would be if it went off track.
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#28 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 4th, 2018, 8:22 am

M. Dildine wrote:Here's a cozy little spot for you Francophiles - L’Ami Louis!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2011/0 ... uis-201104
What you actually find when you arrive at L’Ami Louis is singularly unprepossessing. It’s a long, dark corridor with luggage racks stretching the length of the room. It gives you the feeling of being in a second-class railway carriage in the Balkans. It’s painted a shiny, distressed dung brown. The cramped tables are set with labially pink cloths, which give it a colonic appeal and the awkward sense that you might be a suppository. In the middle of the room is a stubby stove that also looks vaguely proctological.

At the end of the dining room is the tiny kitchen and an even tinier bar, where the waiters lurk like extras for a Gallic version of The Sopranos. The staff are an essential part of Louis’s mystique. Paunchy, combative, surly men, bulging out of their white jackets with the meaty malevolence of gouty buffalo. They may well be related by blood—theirs or other people’s. They exude a pantomime insolence, an existential Le Fug Youse. As you walk in, one approaches with an eyebrow raised and nose aloft to give you the benefit of full-frontal froggy nostril. If you get past the door, and many don’t, the first thing your waiter does is take your coat. The next thing he does is fling it with effortful nonchalance into the luggage rack. Returning customers know to keep wallets, BlackBerrys, and spectacles out of their pockets. As it is, a tinkling dandruff of change scuttles behind the banquettes.

We are sat at a table by the door. Our particular chubby, oyster-eyed fellow dumps off a pair of menus and a large book without a word or the offer of a drink. The menu is brief and bloody. The tome is the wine list. It turns out to be a massive eulogy to claret. Every grand château and vintage is represented with sycophantic prices. The wine cellar is behind the lavatory in a crypt that smells overpoweringly of fetid bladder damp. After a lot of smiley semaphore, I manage to beg a single glass of house red for my companion.

We order foie gras and snails to start. Foie gras is a L’Ami Louis specialty. After 30 minutes what come are a pair of intimidatingly gross flabs of chilly pâté, with a slight coating of pustular yellow fat. They are dense and stringy, with a web of veins. I doubt they were made on the premises. The liver crumbles under the knife like plumber’s putty and tastes faintly of gut-scented butter or pressed liposuction. The fat clings to the roof of my mouth with the oleaginous insistence of dentist’s wax.

As I suck my teeth, I watch the waiters saunter up and down the aisle like Vichy ticket collectors. Another one appears. Not fat, not white, not a caricature. A lithe, handsome boy, who is probably North African. He is plainly a prop. His job is to be wrong, to soak up blame. The big men bully up, roll their eyes, wave their chubby knuckles at him as he delivers and clears and sweeps crumbs. A man pretends to cuff him round the ear and looks over at a table of Americans with a grin and a wink to include them in the jape.

An Englishman in blinding tweed and racy cap pushes through the door and roars. A waiter steps forward, arms outstretched, and makes hee-haw, hee-haw noises like Bart Simpson pretending to speak French. It is the practiced and familiar ritual greeting of mutual incomprehension and ancient contempt. Our servant glides past and does a silent-movie double take. “Your snails!” he exclaims. “They have not come!” His cheeks bulge as he flaps his short arms. In all my years of professional eating, I have never seen this before. I have seen waiters do many, many things, including burst into tears and juggle knives, and I once glimpsed one having sex. But never, ever has a waiter commiserated with me about the lack of service.

Twenty minutes later, possibly under their own steam, the snails arrive. Vesuvian, they bubble and smoke in a magma of astringent garlic butter and parsley. We grasp them with the spring-loaded specula and gingerly unwind the dark gastropods, curling like dinosaur boogers. They go on and on, expanding onto the plate as if they were alien. We have to cut them in half, which is just wrong. The rule with snails is: Don’t eat one you couldn’t get up your nose.

Twenty minutes later, our plates are taken away. Twenty minutes after that, our main courses arrive. Or rather, my companion’s does. A veal chop, utterly plain, unaccompanied or sullied by decoration or inspiration. Just an awkwardly butchered skinny rib that has been grilled for too long on one side and too little on the other so that it is simultaneously stingingly dry and overdone and flabbily, slimily raw. She can’t decide which side to complain about.

I have decided not to go for the famous roast chicken, mainly because I’ve suffered it before and I’d just been watching a Japanese couple wrestle with one like a manga poltergeist from some Tokyo horror movie, its scaly blue legs stabbing the air. So on to the broiled kidneys. Nothing I have eaten or heard of being eaten here prepared me for the arrival of the veal kidneys en brochette. Somehow the heat had welded them together into a gray, suppurating renal brick. It could be the result of an accident involving rat babies in a nuclear reactor. They don’t taste as nice as they sound.

As an afterthought, or perhaps as an apology, the waiter brings a funeral pyre of French fries—they taste of seared and overused cooking oil—and then a green salad of frisée and mâche, two leaves that rarely share a bowl, due to their irreconcilable differences. They have been doused in vinegar that may have been recycled from the gherkin bottle. Dessert is four balls of gray ice cream and something that had once been chocolate.
Bon appetit!
I'm guessing he didn't like it but can't be sure because there was no rating. No stars or scores.

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#29 Post by Craig G » March 4th, 2018, 8:29 am

To achieve the true pinnacle of berserkerdom, you must strive to eliminate any trace of self-awareness.
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#30 Post by Marc Breitenmoser » March 4th, 2018, 8:31 am

John Morris wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines....

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.
I guess you've never traveled in Europe. In Tuscany, you won't find Piedmont wines in the stores or on restaurant lists, or vice versa. And you're unlikely to find an Italian or French wine in a Spanish restaurant.

The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
That’s so much off base one wonders of the mold issue is really just a phenomenon in your friends cellar or more wide spread [tease.gif]
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#31 Post by David Cooper » March 4th, 2018, 8:36 am

Perhaps Alan was traveling with Bubba Watson.

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#32 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 8:41 am

A few things to add

I was the only non French person present, i did not pick the wines.

Mark up outside Paris appeared to be 2-3 times, inside Paris 3-5 times, bad on wine, really bad on whiskey. Any malt thats sells here for $50 ish a bottle was €20 a shot in Paris.

For the most part the food was excellent, i was genuinely surprised how bad the wines were.
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#33 Post by Warren Taranow » March 4th, 2018, 8:41 am

M. Dildine wrote:Here's a cozy little spot for you Francophiles - L’Ami Louis!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2011/0 ... uis-201104

Bon appetit!
Mike,
That's a really funny read. Thanks for posting it!
Cheers,
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#34 Post by ERPark » March 4th, 2018, 8:44 am

The irony of the posts noting the OP sounds like an "ugly Murican" is that he's actually Welsh (aka the infamous Welshturd from the WS forums).

Please do carry on with the rightfully deserved skewering!!!
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#35 Post by Jayson Cohen » March 4th, 2018, 8:47 am

Stick with a pitcher of berry smoothie next time. Sounds like you would have been happier.

If the OP wasn’t a troll, I’d engage. I’ll leave it at — you haven’t spent much time in France.

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#36 Post by Julian Marshall » March 4th, 2018, 8:56 am

The irony of the posts noting the OP sounds like an "ugly Murican" is that he's actually Welsh (aka the infamous Welshturd from the WS forums).
Ah, hence the dragon!

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#37 Post by Sc0tt F!tzger@ld » March 4th, 2018, 9:06 am

Alan Eden wrote:A few things to add

I was the only non French person present, i did not pick the wines.

Mark up outside Paris appeared to be 2-3 times, inside Paris 3-5 times, bad on wine, really bad on whiskey. Any malt thats sells here for $50 ish a bottle was €20 a shot in Paris.

For the most part the food was excellent, i was genuinely surprised how bad the wines were.
Alan, can you provide the names of some of the restaurants you visited? Not doubting your experience, but it might be no different than someone visiting the states and eating at a decent U.S. restaurant, only to find a subpar overpriced wine list.

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#38 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 4th, 2018, 9:14 am

Scott Fitzgerald wrote:Not doubting your experience
Not to worry Scott; others have that covered
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#39 Post by Arv R » March 4th, 2018, 9:19 am

Alan Eden wrote:A few things to add

I was the only non French person present, i did not pick the wines.

Mark up outside Paris appeared to be 2-3 times, inside Paris 3-5 times, bad on wine, really bad on whiskey. Any malt thats sells here for $50 ish a bottle was €20 a shot in Paris.

For the most part the food was excellent, i was genuinely surprised how bad the wines were.
The best Parisian travel advice I was ever given: bring half as many clothes, and twice as much money.

Sorry that you didn't enjoy the place. I still find the humblest Beaujolais sipped in a cafe there to be a wondrous experience.

If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life it stays with you, for Paris is a moveable feast.
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#40 Post by Chris Seiber » March 4th, 2018, 9:27 am

Scott G r u n e r wrote:
John Morris wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:The choices in French restaurants are limited to local wines....

The reason they sell so much French wine in the restaurants is because they do not sell anything else, not even Spanish or Italian, this really surprised me when we basically in the foothills of the Pyrenees and still not a Spanish wine in site. We were also eating in what you would call foodie type places, not chains.

The reason we have such eclectic, diverse wine lists here is that the US doesn't produce any good wines.
Ha! “I see your troll and I raise you a Troll!”
My thought exactly. Somehow managed to one up the OP.

It is amazing how lucky we are to be wine lovers in the US. Maybe especially the west coast. You have the best of everything to choose from, locally and internationally. Though restaurant lists aren’t usually the best place to experience that.

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#41 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 9:33 am

Arv R wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:A few things to add

I was the only non French person present, i did not pick the wines.

Mark up outside Paris appeared to be 2-3 times, inside Paris 3-5 times, bad on wine, really bad on whiskey. Any malt thats sells here for $50 ish a bottle was €20 a shot in Paris.

For the most part the food was excellent, i was genuinely surprised how bad the wines were.
The best Parisian travel advice I was ever given: bring half as many clothes, and twice as much money.

Sorry that you didn't enjoy the place. I still find the humblest Beaujolais sipped in a cafe there to be a wondrous experience.

If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life it stays with you, for Paris is a moveable feast.

I forgot about that, the first night i was alone and had a Morgon at a nice fish restaurant, i did enjoy that. It was €33 a bottle so not to bad. Maybe the issue was the people picking the wines !!
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#42 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 9:35 am

ERPark wrote:The irony of the posts noting the OP sounds like an "ugly Murican" is that he's actually Welsh (aka the infamous Welshturd from the WS forums).

Please do carry on with the rightfully deserved skewering!!!
Om
Oh no, the scary man from Wine Spectator has come out to join in, he does like to bully people
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#43 Post by Tim McCracken » March 4th, 2018, 9:37 am

I have to partly agree with the OP. The French restaurant attention to wine is often abysmal. Generally speaking, anything that you would find exported outside of France (classified growth Bordeaux, other well known wines) have huge markups. Plus there is such an objection to BYOB that it is nearly impossible unless you are a regular customer who knows the owner or chef. And don't get me started on how many restaurants have crappy stemware. When I go out to eat, whether Paris or other cities in France, I do not expect to have a spectacular wine experience. I expect to have a mediocre to decent wine experience with excellent food.

That being said, once you resolve yourself to having a mediocre wine experience, you can be surprised. I generally follow the strategy of going as local as possible in selections, or picking something I don't know to try to match the food. If choosing Bordeaux, I'll look for something in a satellite appellation and stay away from the big names.

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#44 Post by Thomas Keim » March 4th, 2018, 9:39 am

Arv R wrote:Sorry that you didn't enjoy the place. I still find the humblest Beaujolais sipped in a cafe there to be a wondrous experience.
Spot on. My greatest memories of Paris itself are those sidewalk cafes. A lipsmacking Cru Beaujolais and a little plate of fromage. It doesn't get any better.

And the beauty of France is the regionalism. I remember being in Burgundy, sitting at a table with a bunch of older vignerons, and was shocked to hear that at least half of them had never been to Bordeaux (and wondered why I would even ask such a silly question). Another time we were staying in Saint Emilion and heard about a restaurant on the main drag that actually had some older Burgundies on their list. And it was like they had to whisper this info to us, for fear of being heard...
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#45 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 9:42 am

I did see one weird wine i thought was out of place

A villes vignes trembley for €130 , i know zero about burgs but thought i had heard people complain about prices for that wine
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#46 Post by NED VALOIS » March 4th, 2018, 9:49 am

Vous parlez de mon héritage. Êtes-vous le «vilain américain» que nous connaissons tous?

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#47 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 10:06 am

NED VALOIS wrote:Vous parlez de mon héritage. Êtes-vous le «vilain américain» que nous connaissons tous?
Je suis l'Américain laid qui aime votre nourriture mais n'aime pas votre vin
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#48 Post by Martin Steinley » March 4th, 2018, 10:10 am

Alan Eden wrote:I did see one weird wine i thought was out of place

A villes vignes trembley for €130 , i know zero about burgs but thought i had heard people complain about prices for that wine
It's actually Tremblay (Cecile Tremblay, I expect). And, if there was any doubt, this post establishes the root of your problem dining/drinking in France: you are ignorant (i.e., lacking knowledge or awareness; uneducated).
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#49 Post by Alan Rath » March 4th, 2018, 10:16 am

I'm not sure how to say "why are people posting in response to this" without violating my own advice.
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#50 Post by Alan Eden » March 4th, 2018, 10:28 am

Martin Steinley wrote:
Alan Eden wrote:I did see one weird wine i thought was out of place

A villes vignes trembley for €130 , i know zero about burgs but thought i had heard people complain about prices for that wine
It's actually Tremblay (Cecile Tremblay, I expect). And, if there was any doubt, this post establishes the root of your problem dining/drinking in France: you are ignorant (i.e., lacking knowledge or awareness; uneducated).
Is it ignorant when i state upfront i know zero about burgs ?

Seems ignorant to attack when i freely admit upfront i have no knowledge

I know ill be called a troll but the whole snobbery about French wine is summed up in your post, a small spelling mistake is enough for you to be rude.

I dont claim expertise, i do claim living life on my terms and calling it as i see it and not being a blind follower kissing the ring just to be one of the cool crowd.
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