What quality red wines see zero oak?

This is a breakout from the “added flavors” thread. Ian Sutton said a growing number of red wines see zero oak, and he referenced two Foradori bottlings as examples.

I’m curious what other red wines are out there that are never in barrels and never have any oak exposure.

Two clarifications:

(1) I’m only asking about quality wines, of the kinds we care about here at WB. Not Two Buck Chuck or other cheap industrial wine, or Beaujolias Nouveau.

(2) By no oak, I mean no oak, including old barrels no matter how old, large casks, Slavonian oak, oak staves, oak cubes, sawdust or anything.

What wines are out there? And to those who have tried them, how and how much are they different from wines that see oak?

Off the top of my head, and only from places I know from visiting near us in Provence, Charvin, Ferrand (except for his 100% Syrah CdR), and Ourea, both his Gigondas and his Vacqueyras. There are surely many more.

So what do these wines do between fermentation and bottling? And do you notice a difference between them and similar wines from those or other producers that are aged in barrels?

Bila-Haut by Michel Chapoutier?

I believe a number of Washington wineries, including Cor, Gramercy, Kerloo, Syncline among others are using concrete eggs for some red wines.

Easy answer is Cru Beaujolais…Peter, pretty sure they all see oak in WA…also wines like Elio Grasso Nebbiolo, all stainless and Barolo level fruit. Plenty of Rhone wines with no oak from CdR to Gigondas to CdP.

True.

Beckham Estate in Oregon makes some Pinot aged in amphora.

In Barolo, saw some wineries using stainless steel, concrete or amphora for Langhe Nebbiolo, Dolcetto or Barbera.

A few Chianti Classicos by Candialle (one aged in large concrete vats, another in small, spherical clay containers).

Rivetto makes a Nebbiolo that is macerated with the skins for almost a year in a clay amphora.

Cascina Val del Prete’s Bricco Medica was a terrific and dead-serious Roero Nebbiolo that sees only concrete, IIRC.

A lot of Rhône producers using only concrete vats, for example Pierre-Henri Morel.

As said above, most entry-level Barbera d’Albas and Dolcettos see only stainless steel. The same applies to many German and Austrian Pinot Noir. And with these wines I don’t mean some insipid plonk, but well-
made serious red wines.

Tenute Dettori in Sardinia and Yves Leccia in Corsica use no oak whatsoever and still make some of the most profound Mediterranean reds. The same applies to many producers in Santorini, although some producers believe you can make serius red wines only by aging your red wines in new barriques.

came in to say this.

also I’d venture that most Rioja Jovens or basic riojas are seeing little if any oak

A guess you are not that familiar with Spanish wine regulations and requirements?

Colares?

oops! went one rank too high up. My buying normally starts there so I forget theres a next step down sometimes. haha, edited, thanks!

I think that there’s an obvious movement (in many US wines) away from new oak, or at least from what one may perceive as overt oak on the nose and palate.

I think that implementing used (I mean old) barrels can contribute to the development of a wine prior to bottling. Otherwise, a noticeable reductive element in the final product could rear its ugly head, especially if bottled under screwcap.

The delicious reds and whites from Dirty & Rowdy Family Wines don’t present any/much noticeable oakiness, nor do many other wineries’ bottlings.

The avoidance of all traces of oak in the vinification of a wine may be a common thing in many inexpensive bottles (I am thinking of most sub-$15/btl Spanish reds and whites), but I am sure that more astute drinkers can name a few long-lived, world class wines that are made in glass demijohns, concrete or stainless steel tanks, etc.

They sit in their inox or concrete vats, rather than sitting in oak foudres or barriques. I don’t know why that would be a mystery. I doubt I could pick them or any other wine out in a blind tasting, but, yes, they do seem to let cepage and parcel come through more clearly. Your own belief that oak always adds something would perforce entail that its absence would also create a difference, whether you liked it or not. There is a domaine in Cairanne, Grand Bois, which makes separate cuvees of their Cairanne in which the only difference is in terms of oak treatment, ranging from none to 11 months in barriques. When you taste the three side by side, the differences are clear.

[Deleted]

They’re gaining popularity in California, too. I know Unti uses some.

Wines aged in stainless can not only get reductive, they have a different mouthfeel than wines aged in wood, concrete, amphorae. I think both are related to the lack of oxygen, but they’re different effects. Some wineries that use concrete, including some mentioned above, only use them for fermentation and transfer the wine to neutral barrels (or larger format), or a combination of stainless and wood.

-Al

Sounds awesome! Please, do tell more.

I know that, according to Mayberry’s book on the Rhône Valley wines, several wineries used to do this and, for all I know, may still. The Bonny Doon “Cigare Volant” reds are offered in a similar way.

Thanks Al!

For fermentation or for aging also?