TN: '15 Northern Rhones (Souhaut, Faury, Paris, Balthazar ...) - Can you say ripe?

Boy, were we in for a surprise last night when my monthly blind tasting group sampled '15 Northern Rhones. I’ve never encountered young Rhones like this – so fruit-forward, and with so little apparent structure. “If you’d told me these were California syrahs, I’d have believed you,” said one person who tastes very widely across different categories of wine. And he wasn’t thinking Anderson Valley.

Key take-aways:

1. Among the people in the group who I take most seriously, there was amazement at the ripeness and fruitiness. Not cooked, but definitely in the jammy direction. Blackberry and ripe black cherry fruit flavors predominated, not the plums or blueberries I’d expect. A lot of puzzled looks were exchanged. WTF?
2. I’ve been tasting Northern Rhones on release since the ’83 vintage and I can’t recall an array remotely like this. (I didn’t taste the ‘03s young, however.) The only wines I can think of that can resemble these are some young Graillot Crozes, but those typically have more freshness, more zip.
3. These really were yummy last night. Don’t get me wrong. But I have serious doubts about their aging potential.
4. On the whole, I think I’d rather buy the ’15 Copain Les Voisins syrah I tasted at the winery last month, which had a better balance of fruit and structure than these.

Some footnotes/qualifications/caveats:

  • With the exception of the Barruol-Lynch, these are all established traditional producers with good reputations.

  • Sometimes structure hides out and only emerges later, so it’s conceivable we were fooled by the fruit. But I don’t think so.

  • The wines were decanted into serving bottles about an hour ahead of the tasting, and sampled over an hour and a half or more. I’ll sample the leftovers again this evening.

Here’s my ranking in ascending order. There was little consensus in the group’s ranking, so the group scores are meaningless.

Hervé Souhaut – St. Joseph - Les Cessieux: Weedy on the nose, like the freshly broken stalk of a large thistle. (This I like.) Some black cherries, but generally a bit tighter than the others. That would have been a plus, but in the mouth this seemed diffuse, unfocused, to me. There’s tannin, but it seems a bit disjointed. A bit hot on the finish with a strand of hard tannins. Where’s the acid? $53
My rank/score: 8th/83 points

Dard & Ribo – Crozes-Hermitage: Brighter, redder fruit than the others, in a good way. A bit of reduction on the nose. Very drinkable – very fruity. This was particularly Graillot-like, though at a higher price point.
My rank/score: 7th/87 points: Yummy but do I want to pay $45 for current pleasure?
Barruol-Lynch – Crozes-Hermitage: Luscious ripe black cherry jam on the nose. I want to spread this on peanut butter! Some oak showing, too. In the mouth, blackberry and black cherry jam with a good whack of new oak. Yummy, but doesn’t seem like a serious wine. On my third or fourth pass through this, it cried out “shiraz!” and I started to wonder if the person who arranged the line-up had slipped in an Aussie ringer. Shiraz blackberry fruit at the back, and a bit of heat. I don’t understand why Kermit Lynch is involved in producing this kind of wine. Nice if you liked well-balanced, restrained Australian shiraz. $35
My rank/score: 6th/87 points

Domaine Faury – Cote Rotie: Ripe black cherry nose, but with a nice contrasting tartness. Chewy in the mouth – more grip than most of these. Still lots of ripe dark fruit. Approachable now. At first this reminded me of young St. Josephs I drank in the 80s from people like Trollat – grapiness combined with a healthy measure of soft tannins. With more time in the glass, this seemed more serious, though the acid still seemed a little lacking. No signs of new oak, though it sees some. $60
My rank/score: 5th/89 points, but retasting after the rankings, I gave it 91, which would have put it in second place behind the Paris Cornas 60.

Gilles Barges - St. Joseph: More reduction on the nose than the others. Lots of fruit, but good tannin and acid. I think some of the tartness may have been from sulfur. (One person in the group thought this wine suffered from too little added sulfur and that the reduction was from the wine itself rather than sulfur additions.) More restrained in the mouth. $25
My rank/score: 4th/89+ points

Balthazar - Cornas - Sans souffre: Keeping up with the Allemands! A lot of reduction at first. In the mouth, this was denser and chewier and less fruity than most. “It doesn’t hand over the goods,” I wrote. I guess that’s why I liked it in this ready-for-business line-up. $60
My rank/score: 3rd/90 points

Dom. Faury – St. Joseph - Vieille Vignes: Rich black cherry and blackberry on the nose and a trace of sulfur. Rich, ripe, sweet, big, but with good structure. A tad hot, but with nice sweetness fruit on the finish. My descriptors don’t capture what I liked about the wine – that it seemed to have more backbone than most. $30
My rank/score: 2nd/90+ points

Vincent Paris - Cornas - Granit 60: I’ve been more impressed with Paris’s wines in recent years than I was in the 2000s. His ’15 St. Joseph Les Cotes is lovely and fresh. Here there’s a slight reduction on the nose, and then something pleasantly earthy. Great depth, great grip. Tannic, some alcohol, and with a nice sweetness (not candiedness). This just seemed like a more serious wine than most, but I still had doubts about its aging potential. $50
My rank/score: 1st/92 points

Thanks for the notes. As I noted in the other “2015 Rhone Buying” thread, I’m mostly a casual observer as I am not a buyer of the 15s, at least until I was poked with the TN on the 2015 Faurie VV Saint-Joseph.

Your note says you tasted 2 wines from Dom. Faury. Wasn’t one of them a Domaine Faurie, as in Bernard Faurie? The other TN in the other thread said “Faurie”. These are confusing producers in the same space with almost similar names and with similar stable of wines and I’m simply asking to clarify.

No, both of these were Domaine Faury (see Kermit Lynch’s blurb on the property). Someone else may have referred to Faurie, but my post over there listed these correctly.

And, yes, it is confusing!

Ok, then. I’m back to being a casual observer with no interest in buying. I was hoping your TN meant to say Faurie (the Saint Joseph).

Thanks for the detailed notes, John. This is very helpful and I appreciate your attention to detail. By the way, for you, these are actually decent scores. I’m really surprised by the showing of Paris, perhaps I need to circle back and try a 30 or 60 again. I think my last attempt was the 2012 vintage, and it did not thill me any differently than prior vintages failed to thrill. I do like the Geynale, Which comes from a killer vineyard and has stem inclusion.

Thanks for the notes. Would you say '15 is similar to '09?

Rama, I do think there is a lot of similarity, though I also think 15s have just bit more structure and complexity than 09, if that’s not too much of a generalization. Really, you can go by the rule of 3s in N. Rhone: 03, 06, 09, 12, 15, all riper vintages.

Like the Field of Dreams, if you make a wine, the structure will come. I highly doubt these will fall apart over the next 1-3 years. But I have noticed, say post-2007, that Northern Rhones are getting frootier and full of lip-smacking gobs occur more often than not. Perhaps it’s a NEW PARADIGM??

nice notes. I have a case of the 15 Faury VV. Pouring it in March as part of the red lineup for my daughter wedding

I certainly didn’t mean to imply that. I’m just questioning the assumption that this is a vintage to stash away for a decade or two.

I just tasted back through all eight. I thought maybe they would tighten up today and show more backbone, but there was little change. They’re really tasty, fruit-forward wines without a lot of structure.

The only marked change was in the Souhaut, which came into better balance. It’s no longer disjointed and shows more structure. I’d give it 87/88 tonight instead of 83/84.

I wouldn’t change my scores or rankings for any of the others (note that I would have moved up the Faury Cote Rotie later last night).

In his tasting notes in the other '15 Rhone thread, Zachary Ross remarked that one wine (the '15 Clusel-Roch St. Joseph) tasted like gamay to him. That really sums up our experience: These taste more like '09 cru Beaujolais than young Northern Rhones from serious producers.

Now, I loved lots of '09 Bojo, and these eight wines are really tasty. But will do they have the precision and structure to age over many years and develop lots of complex tertiary qualities? I would be very surprised. I’m not a buyer, except perhaps for the Barges St. Joseph at $25 for current drinking.

  1. These really were yummy last night. Don’t get me wrong. But I have serious doubts about their aging potential.

John, but you know well that very ripe fruit can easily hide the structure and bury it almost undedectable in the background.
I´ve tasted a good number in 2016 from cask, and the best are marvallous (Rostaing, Ogier, Chave …) - but they will need time …

(for those without enough patience: simply don´t buy them …)

More like climate change.

Hey, remember that’s a banned word now! pileon

That’s why I retasted all eight wines last night. I thought perhaps they would tighten up and reveal more structure. They didn’t. Overall they still seem very ripe and a bit low in acid, with very soft tannins. By comparison, even the '09s did not show this kind of very ripe, jammy fruit and had much more structure at this stage.

Did you mean '15? Or are you just saying that the '16s are wines for the long haul?

Two words.

I´ve tasted (vintage) 2015 in (the year) 2016 from cask, when they were around 10-11 months old.
I hope my grammar wasn´t misleading …
[cheers.gif]

OK, that clarifies it. Thanks.

I’d be curious to hear your thoughts when you taste '15s from bottle.

Interesting notes, John. I had the Paris La Geynale some time ago - impressive wine with a lot of ripe fruit and stuffing, but I also noted a lot more structure in that (and the Gonon Les Iles Feray, which I thought outstanding) than you note in any of those wines. Have some others on deck - now might pop a Faury St. Jo (regular, not the VV) tonight.

I’ll pop the Geynale tonight as well, Salil. Been meaning to try it, really loved some prior vintages but have not tried any of the Paris 2015 offerings. Have not really been a fan of the other bottlings, but John is confident that Paris is starting to hit a stride and worth a second look.