Found a lone bottle of this from a highly reputable retailer who is confident in the provenance. I’ve seen some varying opinions on the board about Leroy’s negociant bottlings, but it seems to depend on the decade. How were they in the '70s?
Also, the bottle has a vintage tag in a shape I’ve never seen before on Leroy bottles. Wondering if those with more experience with older Leroy can shed any light.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Max,
I thought Narbantons was a Domaine wine, or perhaps they didnt own the vineyard back then?, I dont have one that old to compare vintage neck labels but the rest of it looks pretty good to me
(edit), OK just learnt they bottle Narbantons, Domaine and negotiant.
Thanks, Marcus - yeah, the retailer has a great track record with provenance of older bottles. That beck label is just throwing me though.
Not sure, but I think Leroy owned the vineyard for a long time, but didn´t differentiate between own and purchased fruit back then …
I also think I´ve seen rectangular vintage labels in the 60ies or earlier … but I own 1969/70/71 with oval neck labels …
72s Burgs are certainly VERY mature … that doesn´t mean they cannot be fine … but usually with very noticable acidity … (and a bit fading fruit) …
Bottle condition looks fine …
If you consider to buy it … it´s a question of price …
if you already own it … be sure to open it well in advance and either don´t decant … or only immediately before serving …
I remember oval labels with fine script font in the style of the main label shown, not rectangular, nor that font. This is based on dozens of bottles from that era.
Thanks, guys. I’m considering buying it, but increasingly hesitant given your responses.
Share this thread with the retailer???
I had to go digging deep in the books to find it, but I was pretty sure I had a 1972 Leroy tasting note, and I do! The 1972 Vosne-Romanee Les Beaux Monts tasted in 1997. I had only been tasting a couple of years at the time, plus back then most of us were not totally clued in to negociant vs domaine- so I do not know which this was. Per my notes I had recently bought it at Premier Cru for $69.50, so I think it was most likely a negociant bottling.
I won’t write out the entire TN, but basically (and remember this is 20 years ago) I noted it had an attractive medium body but lacked a solid midpalate, acidity was becoming prominent plus it had a certain “thickness”- in a foursquare way, not a compliment.
I have had little experience with Leroy’s Savigny wines. The Auxey Duresses wines can, and do, far outlive what one might expect for their hierarchal status, but I would not expect a Savigny to have significantly greater staying power than a Vosne of the same vintage assuming similar vineyard quality performances within the vintage.
On all the above, I would pass if it were me since I think is likely past its best.
More worrying is that vintage label. Between personal experiences and my appraisal work, I have had a first hand look at several hundred bottles of Leroy from the 50s to today- including original and late, and negociant and domaine releases. EDIT- to be fair, I have been in this game long enough to know there are often anomalous situations with labeling on burgundy. My past experience is not conclusive proof that the vintage label did not originate at Leroy.
I have never, ever seen a vintage tag that was not the usual oval with a fancy scripted vintage date. And I do not recall having seen situations where the glue used on those labels would fail (as is common with Petrus from the 60s and 70s to give a key example) and thus necessitate someone creating a replacement for reference purposes.
The relative fame and asking price of Leroy’s Narbantons of today is a fairly new thing. And so any older bottles deserve extra scrutiny and concern when anything seems amiss. It may seem strange that someone would choose 1972 as a vintage to fake a Leroy, but back in the 90s, 1972 was considered a very good vintage for her and the wines traded at very solid prices on late release.
Thanks to all who posted here - really appreciate all the insight and experience…and warnings. I’m definitely going to pass, and I’ll (diplomatically) let the retailer know that after casting a pretty wide net, wasn’t able to verify the rectangular vintage label. He’s a good guy, so if it is a mistake, it’s an honest one.
Anyhow - thanks again.
Cheers,
Max
domaine not founded till 1988.
If the wine were real, it could still be very good. Have not had a '72 Leroy Savigny bottling, but Savignys from the domaine in this era were all good that I have tried and still drinking very well. 1972 was a very high acid vintage for red Burgundy, with the wines not really drinkable at all until the early 1990s, but quite good once they finally blossomed. Today, some have started to lose fruit and are pretty shrill, as the acidity remains strong. Others are still drinking beautifully; it just depends on the individual wine and how cold the storage has been. This would be pure negociant wine, as the family did not own anything in Savigny back in these days. As Alan noted, there was no Domane Leroy until 1988, but the negociant red bottlings from the Cote de Beaune in the '60s, '70s and early '80s were excellent. However, like others, the neck label jumps out at me as completely incorrect, as it should be the oval with fine script. I would ask the merchant for an explanation of the neck label and see if they have one.
I did - he said this bottle came from the cellar of a long-time collector who passed away, and that it was likely privately imported directly from Europe. I hunted online to see if I could find a similar example in European auction catalogs, etc. but came up empty. And given that you guys have so much collective experience and haven’t seen this before, I don’t think it’s worth the risk.
Write to the Domaine and ask them if they know about this? Maybe they ran out of vintage labels during the labeling and had to borrow from another Domaine near by? There could be some really valid reasons…and who knows? It could be an amazing experience…
more likely that the original neck label fell off and the collector relabeled it himself, depending on price I think its worth a punt
Thanks Alan, so apart from the shareholding in DRC did Leroy own any other vineyards prior to 1988?
Yes, it did (but at the moment no time for reseach)
Thanks Alan, so apart from the shareholding in DRC did Leroy own any other vineyards prior to 1988?[/quote]
Yes, it did (but at the moment no time for reseach)[/quote]
Yes- quite a lot of holdings actually. And it gets even more complicated because when the Domaine was formed in 1988, Leroy purchased Charles Noellat along with all their library holdings, and Domaine Phillipe Remy in 1989- I am unsure the extent to which library stocks were included.
I have never heard any official word on the matter, but I can tell you many collectors assumed that some library releases were Noellat stock. Whether a library release was from Leroy holdings or purchased grapes vinified by Leroy was never clear to me either.
However, I and most people I know made assumptions based on the price. Prior to the very clear labeling differences we have today, the price points for relatively similar wines in terms of age, vintage reputation and cru hierarchy were very different. It was generally assumed- at least among people I tasted with- that the highest price wines, relatively speaking, were likely from Leroy holdings, the lowest negociant or potentially Noellat library stock.
All conjecture, but in the glass there was a real difference. I do not recall ever having had a “bad” bottle of burgundy with the Leroy label, but the big dollar bottles, regardless of site, tended to deliver in a big way compared to the others.
Yes, it did (but at the moment no time for reseach)[/quote]
Yes- quite a lot of holdings actually. And it gets even more complicated because when the Domaine was formed in 1988, Leroy purchased Charles Noellat along with all their library holdings, and Domaine Phillipe Remy in 1989- I am unsure the extent to which library stocks were included.
I have never heard any official word on the matter, but I can tell you many collectors assumed that some library releases were Noellat stock. Whether a library release was from Leroy holdings or purchased grapes vinified by Leroy was never clear to me either.
However, I and most people I know made assumptions based on the price. Prior to the very clear labeling differences we have today, the price points for relatively similar wines in terms of age, vintage reputation and cru hierarchy were very different. It was generally assumed- at least among people I tasted with- that the highest price wines, relatively speaking, were likely from Leroy holdings, the lowest negociant or potentially Noellat library stock.
All conjecture, but in the glass there was a real difference. I do not recall ever having had a “bad” bottle of burgundy with the Leroy label, but the big dollar bottles, regardless of site, tended to deliver in a big way compared to the others.[/quote]
Thank you, at some point in the future this information could be most helpful
Twenty years ago, I attended a Petrus vertical going back to the early 20th century, hosted by a well known collector, Tom Black. The night before the tasting he had a tasting at his house, and among others, pulled out a Leroy Auxey 1949. It was magnificent, and the wine that I most remember from that weekend.
So in answer to your question, and given all my subsequent older Leroy experiences, which have all been great, grab that bottle.