Galloni on SantaBarbara

TomHill · October 3, 2017, 3:55pm

AntonioGalloni has a new report on SantaBarbara:
Galloni/SantaBarbara
where the main focus seems to be on the Pinot/Chard paradigm, a sidewise glance at Syrah, and a neglect of many of the other exciting things going on in SantaBarbara.
I was particularly amused & broke out into a big gaffaw over his “What I Did Not Like This Year” comment:

Well…doh !! I think SteveClifton’s Nebbs are first rate/world-class…with some age on them. As are JimClendenen’s. And Marisa & Kris’ Bevela Teroldego is right up there w/ Elisabetta’s.
Anyway, an interesting, if a bit superficial, read.
Tom

Brian_Gilp · October 3, 2017, 4:10pm

Tom you are again.

The full quote

Palmina – The reds are spending too much time in barrel. Santa Barbara Nebbiolo is not Barolo or Barbaresco

makes it obvious that what he is saying is that as the wines aren’t Barolo or Barbaresco, don’t try to treat them the same way. As you continue to suggest that they shouldn’t try to be Barolo, I would think you would actually support this statement.

John_Morris · October 3, 2017, 4:20pm

They might be more like Barolo or Barbaresco if they spent less time in barrel, actually! The two Clendenden nebbiolos I’ve had have been very much in the same neighborhood as Langhe nebbiolos.

TomHill · October 3, 2017, 4:21pm

Moi?? Surely you jest, Brian!!

I interpreted that comment to mean that he thought they had too much oak on them. Steve uses old oak and I don’t get much oak on his Nebbs at all.
The quote about B/B I interpreted to mean he didn’t think the Nebbs were any good and forget growing it in SantaBarbara.
Maybe I just mis-interpreted his one line there and read things into it that he didn’t intend. Certainly it’s not B/B nor should it be.
But , Brian. I’m shocked you would suggest that!!
Tom

TomHill · October 3, 2017, 4:25pm

Well, John…I’m not sure we’d want them to be like B/B. I want them to just be good SantaBarbara Nebb and that’s good enough for me.
Jim’s Nebbs spends something like 5 yrs in barrel (old oak). He feels it helps to beat down the tannins.
Tom

CJ_Beazley · October 3, 2017, 4:40pm

I don’t have a subscription, does anyone know what he said about ABC Pinots?

John_Morris · October 3, 2017, 5:22pm

Oh, I know, though it’s hard to keep my euro-centric prejudices in check. My point was really that Galloni shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Santa Barbara nebbiolo as something unrecognizable to a Barolo/Barbaresco lover.

larry_schaffer · October 3, 2017, 5:37pm

To me, I found it bizarre that he singled out Steve’s red wines in particular. Interesting.

He also bagged on ‘outsourced vineyard practices’, which I find interesting as well. Almost every top notch producer around here uses one of a handful of vineyard management companies - and most know what they are doing.

Lastly, his comments about 2015 pinots was interesting as well. I’m curious how he knows when everyone picked to know that he does not feel the ones picked ‘later’ will stand the test of time?

Cheers.

Ian_Dorin · October 3, 2017, 6:36pm

Then I will stir the pot!

Totally kidding, Tom and I recently had a friendly disagreement over Cali-Italian wines.

I think Palmina does great with the whites, but I agree with Galloni’s assessment that the Nebbiolos spend too long in oak, and it’s not that they are oaky, they just don’t need it like the wines in Piedmont do. The naturally riper grapes don’t lend themselves to the longer barrel process. In Piedmont the oak maturation is really about getting the grapes to “open up”, and since Cali gets plenty of sun and ripeness, it won’t take much oak to get the wines to open up.

I thank Tom for posting, as I would like to read his analysis of what is going on. I’m always more curious about that than the ratings. Whether or not I agree with the rest of what Antonio says remains to be seen!

Andrew_Kaufman · October 3, 2017, 10:27pm

Tom, I thought Jim stopped making and growing Nebbiolo.

Peter_Simpson · October 3, 2017, 10:34pm

Tom, wait till you read TWA’s latest Central Coast review by Lisa Perotti-Brown. Her introduction includes the following words of wisdom:

This report covers a lot of AVAs, grape varieties and styles. The good news is that there are some absolutely stunning pearls being produced in most of those regions and across most of those grapes and styles. But there is also a lot of mediocrity, which—from what I’ve tasted—seems largely to be the results of quixotic pursuits, amateur approaches and/or lack of resources. I’m not going to talk too much about the latter two reasons. The part-timer/lifestyle/amateur winemakers usually aren’t in the faces of consumers too much anyway, tending to fade out of the scene rather quickly, after they’ve lost enough money and interest. And, let’s face it, most of us have to make due from time to time when it comes to resources, a situation that the best winemakers will eventually rise above. It’s the army of Don Quixote winemakers jousting vineyards around the Central Coast that really worry me.

I’d like to confront the elephant in the room: lean, green, tart and mean wines—in particular Pinot Noirs, Chardonnays and a few Shirazes and Grenaches—from too-early harvested grapes versus those that are actually in “balance.” When I was tasting Australia a few years ago, I experienced some winemakers going through a trend of early harvesting in efforts to create lower-alcohol, more “elegant,” cooler climate styled wines. The major problem with these “skinny” wines was that—of course—the flavor and phenolic (tannin) compounds weren’t manifested or ripe. So, these wines had little or no flavor, and if the tannins were notable, they were hard and bitter. I see this same trend occurring in parts of California Central Coast. Maybe this group is flying another flag, but it’s the same deal.

TomHill · October 3, 2017, 10:39pm

Nope, Andrew…not to my knowledge. He grows it on his family estate and makes it under
the ClendenenFamily label still.
Tom

TomHill · October 3, 2017, 10:54pm

Ian Dorin:

Brian Gilp:

Tom you are again.

The full quote

Palmina – The reds are spending too much time in barrel. Santa Barbara Nebbiolo is not Barolo or Barbaresco

makes it obvious that what he is saying is that as the wines aren’t Barolo or Barbaresco, don’t try to treat them the same way. As you continue to suggest that they shouldn’t try to be Barolo, I would think you would actually support this statement.

Then I will stir the pot!

Totally kidding, Tom and I recently had a friendly disagreement over Cali-Italian wines.

I think Palmina does great with the whites, but I agree with Galloni’s assessment that the Nebbiolos spend too long in oak, and it’s not that they are oaky, they just don’t need it like the wines in Piedmont do. The naturally riper grapes don’t lend themselves to the longer barrel process. In Piedmont the oak maturation is really about getting the grapes to “open up”, and since Cali gets plenty of sun and ripeness, it won’t take much oak to get the wines to open up.

I thank Tom for posting, as I would like to read his analysis of what is going on. I’m always more curious about that than the ratings. Whether or not I agree with the rest of what Antonio says remains to be seen!

Well…you’re a good too, Ian. You been taking lessons from me??
I’m not so sure that the Nebb grapes in Calif are all that riper then from what they are in Piemonte. It’s pretty rare that you’ll
see a Calif Nebb over 14%. But have no real data to support that. The difference between Piemonte/Calif my be the difference
in diurnal cycle that KevinHarvey mentions frequently.
The Calif Nebbs typically have more richness and less acidity than their Piemonte brethern, but they still have that same hard tannic
bite that you get in Piemonte Nebb. I find the Calif versions more akin to Roero & AltoPiemonte (and Valtelline) Nebbs.
I think the prolonged aging that Steve & Jim use on their Nebb is to cut down on that tannic bite. And still they’re pretty tannic
when they’re released. You gotta be a tannin pig to love Nebb. But I’m not sure, still, I agree w/ Galloni.
Tom

larry_schaffer · October 4, 2017, 12:51am

Peter Simpson:

Tom, wait till you read TWA’s latest Central Coast review by Lisa Perotti-Brown. Her introduction includes the following words of wisdom:

This report covers a lot of AVAs, grape varieties and styles. The good news is that there are some absolutely stunning pearls being produced in most of those regions and across most of those grapes and styles. But there is also a lot of mediocrity, which—from what I’ve tasted—seems largely to be the results of quixotic pursuits, amateur approaches and/or lack of resources. I’m not going to talk too much about the latter two reasons. The part-timer/lifestyle/amateur winemakers usually aren’t in the faces of consumers too much anyway, tending to fade out of the scene rather quickly, after they’ve lost enough money and interest. And, let’s face it, most of us have to make due from time to time when it comes to resources, a situation that the best winemakers will eventually rise above. It’s the army of Don Quixote winemakers jousting vineyards around the Central Coast that really worry me.

I’d like to confront the elephant in the room: lean, green, tart and mean wines—in particular Pinot Noirs, Chardonnays and a few Shirazes and Grenaches—from too-early harvested grapes versus those that are actually in “balance.” When I was tasting Australia a few years ago, I experienced some winemakers going through a trend of early harvesting in efforts to create lower-alcohol, more “elegant,” cooler climate styled wines. The major problem with these “skinny” wines was that—of course—the flavor and phenolic (tannin) compounds weren’t manifested or ripe. So, these wines had little or no flavor, and if the tannins were notable, they were hard and bitter. I see this same trend occurring in parts of California Central Coast. Maybe this group is flying another flag, but it’s the same deal.

I am not a subscriber, but I would think that more folks here and elsewhere wpuld take notice of this.

Here is someone coming into an area without having the experience of others and offering up some interesting insights.

I have no idea who she reviewed so have no idea how 'accurate this is, but it’s a pretty strong statement.

Cheers.

Ian_Dorin · October 4, 2017, 1:30am

I would argue most on this board aren’t reading much of TWA any more, and LPB in particular

It’s interesting, she wasn’t very complimentary of Storm, and Galloni said it they “killed it this year”

She also didn’t love Wenzlau (which I adore), Jonata (SUPER strange), Jaffurs (also strange), and A Tribute to Grace. She was luke warm on most of the Liquid Farm wines, and Tyler too.

Wines she loved were of the norm for TWA, like SQN, Saxum, Booker, Sanguis, DAOU, L’Aventure, Epoch, Next of Kyn, etc. Interestingly, she only gave 3 Pinots a score of 95 (out of the Top 100 wines rated), so clearly you can tell where her pallet lies…

Ian_Dorin · October 4, 2017, 1:33am

TomHill:

Well…you’re a good too, Ian. You been taking lessons from me??
I’m not so sure that the Nebb grapes in Calif are all that riper then from what they are in Piemonte. It’s pretty rare that you’ll
see a Calif Nebb over 14%. But have no real data to support that. The difference between Piemonte/Calif my be the difference
in diurnal cycle that KevinHarvey mentions frequently.
The Calif Nebbs typically have more richness and less acidity than their Piemonte brethern, but they still have that same hard tannic
bite that you get in Piemonte Nebb. I find the Calif versions more akin to Roero & AltoPiemonte (and Valtelline) Nebbs.
I think the prolonged aging that Steve & Jim use on their Nebb is to cut down on that tannic bite. And still they’re pretty tannic
when they’re released. You gotta be a tannin pig to love Nebb. But I’m not sure, still, I agree w/ Galloni.
Tom

I try

Denny_Marin · October 4, 2017, 1:47am

larry schaffer:

Peter Simpson:

Tom, wait till you read TWA’s latest Central Coast review by Lisa Perotti-Brown. Her introduction includes the following words of wisdom:

This report covers a lot of AVAs, grape varieties and styles. The good news is that there are some absolutely stunning pearls being produced in most of those regions and across most of those grapes and styles. But there is also a lot of mediocrity, which—from what I’ve tasted—seems largely to be the results of quixotic pursuits, amateur approaches and/or lack of resources. I’m not going to talk too much about the latter two reasons. The part-timer/lifestyle/amateur winemakers usually aren’t in the faces of consumers too much anyway, tending to fade out of the scene rather quickly, after they’ve lost enough money and interest. And, let’s face it, most of us have to make due from time to time when it comes to resources, a situation that the best winemakers will eventually rise above. It’s the army of Don Quixote winemakers jousting vineyards around the Central Coast that really worry me.

I’d like to confront the elephant in the room: lean, green, tart and mean wines—in particular Pinot Noirs, Chardonnays and a few Shirazes and Grenaches—from too-early harvested grapes versus those that are actually in “balance.” When I was tasting Australia a few years ago, I experienced some winemakers going through a trend of early harvesting in efforts to create lower-alcohol, more “elegant,” cooler climate styled wines. The major problem with these “skinny” wines was that—of course—the flavor and phenolic (tannin) compounds weren’t manifested or ripe. So, these wines had little or no flavor, and if the tannins were notable, they were hard and bitter. I see this same trend occurring in parts of California Central Coast. Maybe this group is flying another flag, but it’s the same deal.

I am not a subscriber, but I would think that more folks here and elsewhere wpuld take notice of this.

Here is someone coming into an area without having the experience of others and offering up some interesting insights.

I have no idea who she reviewed so have no idea how 'accurate this is, but it’s a pretty strong statement.

Cheers.

She crushed Jaffurs, Storm and Jonata, with scores of 79 to 87, all quality producers who typically produce quality wines year in, year out.

larry_schaffer · October 4, 2017, 4:03pm

Ian Dorin:

larry schaffer:

I am not a subscriber, but I would think that more folks here and elsewhere wpuld take notice of this.

Here is someone coming into an area without having the experience of others and offering up some interesting insights.

I have no idea who she reviewed so have no idea how 'accurate this is, but it’s a pretty strong statement.

Cheers.

I would argue most on this board aren’t reading much of TWA any more, and LPB in particular

It’s interesting, she wasn’t very complimentary of Storm, and Galloni said it they “killed it this year”

She also didn’t love Wenzlau (which I adore), Jonata (SUPER strange), Jaffurs (also strange), and A Tribute to Grace. She was luke warm on most of the Liquid Farm wines, and Tyler too.

Wines she loved were of the norm for TWA, like SQN, Saxum, Booker, Sanguis, DAOU, L’Aventure, Epoch, Next of Kyn, etc. Interestingly, she only gave 3 Pinots a score of 95 (out of the Top 100 wines rated), so clearly you can tell where her pallet lies…

I would venture to guess that a good number of people on this board, whether they are active or ‘lurkers’, still pay attention to the TWA. I know it’s not ‘cool’ to do so anymore, but my gut feel is that many still do.

I’m not sure if Lisa actually met with many or any winemakers in this area, whereas Galloni did - and has done so in the past. As we all know, ‘context’ does come into play with wines. I dig Ernst Storm’s wines, but they are definitely more ‘old world’ in style and may not appealed to her. As far as the others goes, I have not had Wenzlau for awhile, Jonata is making killer stuff so not sure there, and Jaffurs has been killing it, but not sure what wines were poured. My guess is that the Tribute to Grace stuff came across as much lighter in comparison to others, and may have fallen into that category she alluded to in her paragraphs mentioned above.

What were the 3 pinots that you mentioned? And what vintages? Remember, we have had some challenging vintages around here . . . AND she was looking at all of the Central Coast, no? And how many Chardonnays did she have in that list?

Cheers!

Michael_Martin · October 4, 2017, 4:09pm

I am one buyer of Santa Barbara County Pinots, blends, Syrahs, Petites that will not change my buying habits as the result of these reviews.

larry_schaffer · October 4, 2017, 4:19pm

And I for one certainly appreciate that

But it is interesting to read these insights - both from someone who has traveled to and tasted from this area for awhile as well as a relative newbie to the area . . .

Cheers!