SQN Graciano

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B. Buzzini
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#1 Post by B. Buzzini » September 30th, 2017, 8:38 am

Looks like a new wine from SQN.... [dance-clap.gif]

"Sine Qua Non's 2014 Graciano is the first wine off Manfred and Elaine Krankl's Third Twin Vineyard in Los Alamos. Lush, rich and voluptuous to the core, with off-the-charts fruit density and plenty of power, the 2014 is exquisitely beautiful. I can't wait to see how it ages. The 90% Graciano and 10% Mourvèdre done with fully destemmed fruit. 94pts" Vinous

The only Graciano I've had is from Bokisch Vineyards here in Lodi...and it is DARK! Should be interesting.
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#2 Post by mark rudner » September 30th, 2017, 9:02 am

97+ from "parker"

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#3 Post by Leonard Taylor » September 30th, 2017, 9:03 am

Is this a new release? How did you hear about this? I have been on SQN for years and I never heard of it.
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#4 Post by mark rudner » September 30th, 2017, 9:07 am

just reviewed by lisa at wa

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#5 Post by Neal.Mollen » September 30th, 2017, 9:14 am

mark rudner wrote:just reviewed by lisa at wa
Lisa is doing CA now? Really?

Not a fan.
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#6 Post by Leonard Taylor » September 30th, 2017, 9:18 am

Those are some pretty impressive ratings. Care to expand on why you are not a fan?
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#7 Post by Neal.Mollen » September 30th, 2017, 9:37 am

Leonard Taylor wrote:Those are some pretty impressive ratings. Care to expand on why you are not a fan?
I am not a fan because she has taken a number of measures to undermine what remained of TWA's editorial independence and integrity, and in doing so has further and aggressively degraded the reputation of what once was really a peerless publication. Her attitude towards her readership has been exceptionally and unashamedly arrogant and condescending. She could hardly be clearer: she doesn't give a f*ck what they think.

This is all very personal and very subjective; I don't imagine everyone else (or, perhaps, anyone else) feels this way. But for me, it is very hard to separate her fairly obvious commercial interests from her editorial content.

Anyway, I am not a subscriber any longer in large part because of her, and TWA reviews of SQN -- whether hers or someone else's -- are irrelevant to me. You buy what they offer or you get off the list. Simple as that
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#8 Post by Greg Ossi » September 30th, 2017, 9:45 am

I agree with Neal - not a fan either. I found Lisa’s reviews by far to be the weakest of all the WA reviewers. Most of her ratings and descriptions were neither useful nor fairly accurate in my opinion – and I have a whore of a palate (I love SQN and Dirty and Rowdy).

In addition, although it had nothing to do with my perception of her wine criticism, her editorial responses to a number of issues that cropped up over the years was a contributing factor to letting my WA subscription lapse.

I am excited to learn of a new SQN wine - hopefully there will be enough to go around to the entire list.

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#9 Post by GregT » September 30th, 2017, 10:15 am

There's very little Graciano produced as a monovarietal in Spain, so it's interesting that SQN is doing it. It's a fairly acidic grape that for years was dismissed as something to be blended in small amounts. Since I'd wager that most people haven't had it, I'm interested in seeing whether the SQN version becomes the paradigm in CA.

Haven't had the SQN so have no opinion. I'd love to try it, but won't be trying to get on the list. As far as Lisa's take - I'm kind of in Neal's camp.
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#10 Post by John Morris » September 30th, 2017, 10:47 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
mark rudner wrote:just reviewed by lisa at wa
Lisa is doing CA now? Really?
Someone posted a month or so ago that she's taken over California this year because Parker has some health problems. I think the suggestion was that this was temporary.
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#11 Post by larry schaffer » September 30th, 2017, 10:53 am

GregT wrote:There's very little Graciano produced as a monovarietal in Spain, so it's interesting that SQN is doing it. It's a fairly acidic grape that for years was dismissed as something to be blended in small amounts. Since I'd wager that most people haven't had it, I'm interested in seeing whether the SQN version becomes the paradigm in CA.

Haven't had the SQN so have no opinion. I'd love to try it, but won't be trying to get on the list. As far as Lisa's take - I'm kind of in Neal's camp.
I would find it hard to believe that their version would become the paradigm in CA, regardless of how good it is. It will be interesting how it is 'handled' - what oak treatment, how long in oak, alc level - to get some kind of 'comparison' with versions elsewhere. My real question is whether it will have some type of 'typicity' or not . . .

As far as Lisa goes, I agree with Neal - though I do find some of her recent posts to be pretty interesting. Her first post was on tasting Sonoma Pinots - and she mentioned how many corked wines she was seeing. Not something you'd 'expect' of someone who is trying to 'befriend' a region - but truthful from her perspective.

Cheers.
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#12 Post by Jay S. Miller » September 30th, 2017, 10:56 am

I just tasted the 2012 Contino Graciano, their latest release, and it was first class (my score 91 points). I'm a big fan of SQN although I dropped off the list a few years ago because it no longer seemed to make sense to buy young wine. Love to see what Manfred Krankl did with it. I know one person who might have some.
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#13 Post by S. Stevenson » September 30th, 2017, 11:00 am

And I thoght JD at TWA gave high scores. Lisa's scores:

2014 Sine Qua Non Grenache Shakti 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Grenache Jusqu' a l'os 100
2015 Sine Qua Non Syrah Trouver L’Arene 100
2014 Sine Qua Non Syrah Piranha Waterdance 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Le Supplement 100
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#14 Post by Neal.Mollen » September 30th, 2017, 11:09 am

Wow. Ok then
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#15 Post by John Morris » September 30th, 2017, 11:40 am

S. Stevenson wrote:And I thoght JD at TWA gave high scores. Lisa's scores:

2014 Sine Qua Non Grenache Shakti 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Grenache Jusqu' a l'os 100
2015 Sine Qua Non Syrah Trouver L’Arene 100
2014 Sine Qua Non Syrah Piranha Waterdance 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Le Supplement 100
Well, that is making friends.
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#16 Post by S. Stevenson » September 30th, 2017, 11:54 am

John Morris wrote:
S. Stevenson wrote:And I thoght JD at TWA gave high scores. Lisa's scores:

2014 Sine Qua Non Grenache Shakti 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Grenache Jusqu' a l'os 100
2015 Sine Qua Non Syrah Trouver L’Arene 100
2014 Sine Qua Non Syrah Piranha Waterdance 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Le Supplement 100
Well, that is making friends.
To be fair, those were the only 100 point scores she gave of the 900+ wines she reviewed from the area.
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#17 Post by GregT » September 30th, 2017, 12:52 pm

I just tasted the 2012 Contino Graciano, their latest release, and it was first class (my score 91 points). I'm a big fan of SQN although I dropped off the list a few years ago because it no longer seemed to make sense to buy young wine. Love to see what Manfred Krankl did with it. I know one person who might have some.
Dr.Jay
Yep - it's always first class. Jesus is no longer making it though.

Interesting that Manfred decided to use that grape, given all the rest of them he could have chosen.

Larry - as far as alc levels - if he's staying true to form, I would imagine it's starting out at 15 and moving north from that.
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#18 Post by jeffruggels » September 30th, 2017, 4:08 pm

just did a quick spin through, she is a couple of points higher on these SQNs but looks like most are in same range as Jeb (+/- a few points) so doesnt feel like overall point inflation. I have never really followed her before so have no sense of palate alignment - just scanning some numbers

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#19 Post by Bill Tex Landreth » September 30th, 2017, 4:17 pm

John Morris wrote:
S. Stevenson wrote:And I thoght JD at TWA gave high scores. Lisa's scores:

2014 Sine Qua Non Grenache Shakti 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Grenache Jusqu' a l'os 100
2015 Sine Qua Non Syrah Trouver L’Arene 100
2014 Sine Qua Non Syrah Piranha Waterdance 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Le Supplement 100
Well, that is making friends.
And influencing people.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. The company line for SQN is amazing. Wonder if they even taste the wines anymore?

Yes I have purchased the past two releases and I am not knocking the quality of the wine or trying to insult the myriad SQN fanbois.
It's not easy being drunk all the time. Everyone would be doing it if it were easy.

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#20 Post by S. Stevenson » September 30th, 2017, 4:19 pm

jeffruggels wrote:just did a quick spin through, she is a couple of points higher on these SQNs but looks like most are in same range as Jeb (+/- a few points) so doesnt feel like overall point inflation. I have never really followed her before so have no sense of palate alignment - just scanning some numbers
She did drop the '13 and '14 Andremily's 2-3 points from where Jeb had them which I think is correct since IMHO they were a tad overrated.
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#21 Post by Eric LeVine » September 30th, 2017, 5:13 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:"Sine Qua Non's 2014 Graciano is the first wine off Manfred and Elaine Krankl's Third Twin Vineyard in Los Alamos. Lush, rich and voluptuous to the core, with off-the-charts fruit density and plenty of power, the 2014 is exquisitely beautiful. I can't wait to see how it ages. The 90% Graciano and 10% Mourvèdre done with fully destemmed fruit. 94pts" Vinous
Whether or not Lisa reviewed this, the original post was a Vinous review from Antonio.
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#22 Post by Eric Egan » October 1st, 2017, 10:45 am

Lisa's back reviewing wines again? Last I read she was in Denmark doing a feature on the Emperor's new spring collection (I hear it's 100pts).
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#23 Post by Steve Crawford » October 1st, 2017, 11:55 am

S. Stevenson wrote:
jeffruggels wrote:just did a quick spin through, she is a couple of points higher on these SQNs but looks like most are in same range as Jeb (+/- a few points) so doesnt feel like overall point inflation. I have never really followed her before so have no sense of palate alignment - just scanning some numbers
She did drop the '13 and '14 Andremily's 2-3 points from where Jeb had them which I think is correct since IMHO they were a tad overrated.
why do you think the andremilys were overrated?

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#24 Post by Erich Sachse » October 1st, 2017, 12:01 pm

Back to the Graciano -- is there any info about production levels and/or how it will be released?

Hopefully not another mag-only limited release like "Writing on The Wall" for those of us more "junior" on the list

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#25 Post by S. Stevenson » October 1st, 2017, 12:17 pm

Steve Crawford wrote:
S. Stevenson wrote:
jeffruggels wrote:just did a quick spin through, she is a couple of points higher on these SQNs but looks like most are in same range as Jeb (+/- a few points) so doesnt feel like overall point inflation. I have never really followed her before so have no sense of palate alignment - just scanning some numbers
She did drop the '13 and '14 Andremily's 2-3 points from where Jeb had them which I think is correct since IMHO they were a tad overrated.
why do you think the andremilys were overrated?
A TAD overrated. Have tasted them all and they are a bit monolithic for me. Need a little faith to see how they evolve hence a 96 rather than a 99.
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#26 Post by Jeb Dunnuck » October 1st, 2017, 12:21 pm

Erich Sachse wrote:Back to the Graciano -- is there any info about production levels and/or how it will be released?

Hopefully not another mag-only limited release like "Writing on The Wall" for those of us more "junior" on the list
It's handled separately and released under the Third Twin label (the wine comes from their Third Twin Vineyard outside Los Alamos)... It will be released just like the Next of Kyn releases.
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#27 Post by Eric S n y d e r » October 1st, 2017, 12:32 pm

S. Stevenson wrote:[quote="Steve Crawford"
jeffruggels wrote:just did a quick spin through, she is a couple of points higher on these SQNs but looks like most are in same range as Jeb (+/- a few points) so doesnt feel like overall point inflation. I have never really followed her before so have no sense of palate alignment - just scanning some numbers
She did drop the '13 and '14 Andremily's 2-3 points from where Jeb had them which I think is correct since IMHO they were a tad overrated. /quote
why do you think the andremilys were overrated?
A TAD overrated. Have tasted them all and they are a bit monolithic for me. Need a little faith to see how they evolve hence a 96 rather than a 99.[/quote] (too many quotes embedded)

I think the 2014 was a tad overrated too. I opened one a month ago and it was extremely closed. A quality wine no doubt, but I wasn’t doing backflips, even taking its youth into consideration.
The 2012 Andremily that I opened last night was stellar though.

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#28 Post by Leonard Taylor » October 1st, 2017, 12:55 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
Erich Sachse wrote:Back to the Graciano -- is there any info about production levels and/or how it will be released?

Hopefully not another mag-only limited release like "Writing on The Wall" for those of us more "junior" on the list
It's handled separately and released under the Third Twin label (the wine comes from their Third Twin Vineyard outside Los Alamos)... It will be released just like the Next of Kyn releases.
How are they handling signing up?
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#29 Post by Erich Sachse » October 1st, 2017, 12:55 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
Erich Sachse wrote:Back to the Graciano -- is there any info about production levels and/or how it will be released?

Hopefully not another mag-only limited release like "Writing on The Wall" for those of us more "junior" on the list
It's handled separately and released under the Third Twin label (the wine comes from their Third Twin Vineyard outside Los Alamos)... It will be released just like the Next of Kyn releases.
Thanks Jeb -- will have to be on the lookout for the signup

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#30 Post by Reginald Wheeler » October 1st, 2017, 4:03 pm

I liked Lisa's reviews and her opinions on wines.
Well done.

I was not aware of Graciano from SQN. Would enjoy trying it.

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#31 Post by Sean_S » October 2nd, 2017, 9:20 pm

B. Buzzini wrote:Looks like a new wine from SQN.... [dance-clap.gif]

"Sine Qua Non's 2014 Graciano is the first wine off Manfred and Elaine Krankl's Third Twin Vineyard in Los Alamos. Lush, rich and voluptuous to the core, with off-the-charts fruit density and plenty of power, the 2014 is exquisitely beautiful. I can't wait to see how it ages. The 90% Graciano and 10% Mourvèdre done with fully destemmed fruit. 94pts" Vinous

The only Graciano I've had is from Bokisch Vineyards here in Lodi...and it is DARK! Should be interesting.
Never had graciano until I tried this one from Santa Cruz Mountain Vineyards/Quinta Cruz from above mentioned Lodi vineyard. Its 100% Graciano and I love the herb flavors that layer on top of the acid/fruit.

http://www.santacruzmountainvineyard.co ... o2007.html

Its a darn good wine. Maybe if I'm uber lucky one of these years I can taste the SQN version.

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#32 Post by GregT » October 2nd, 2017, 11:09 pm

2-3 points from where Jeb had them which I think is correct since IMHO they were a tad overrated.
Two or three points?
[wow.gif]
What a finely calibrated palate.

Quite astonishing.
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#33 Post by Michael Diaz » October 3rd, 2017, 7:07 am

Eric LeVine wrote:
B. Buzzini wrote:"Sine Qua Non's 2014 Graciano is the first wine off Manfred and Elaine Krankl's Third Twin Vineyard in Los Alamos. Lush, rich and voluptuous to the core, with off-the-charts fruit density and plenty of power, the 2014 is exquisitely beautiful. I can't wait to see how it ages. The 90% Graciano and 10% Mourvèdre done with fully destemmed fruit. 94pts" Vinous
Whether or not Lisa reviewed this, the original post was a Vinous review from Antonio.
On the plus side, this could bring the obscure grape back into contention but not as prolific as Merlot (ahem). Will be glad to try some California versions along side the Spanish.

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#34 Post by Bill Gibbs » October 7th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Graciano is the next big thing. You may already be a fan, and not even know it.
Lisa outlined the tale in her article. The most popular (80%?) Mourvedre clone planted in the Paso Robles area over the last decade is Monastrell, the spanish clone. It is a popular ingredient in the very best Paso Rhone blends (GSMs, etc.). There are 100% bottlings of it. Only it isn't a clone of Mourvedre. Recent DNA testing reveals it to be Graciano. The rumor is that the local Nursery blames Plansel, the certifier of original material. If it is their error, than this is bigger than Paso. I think there is going to be a lot of relabeled wine next year, and the planted variety census will shift overnight. Don't be surprised that wines you love already have Graciano in them. It's a great grape and can make great wine, doesn't matter what you call it. In the interests of full disclosure, I was concerned upon learning my acres of Monastrell were not Mourvedre. I felt better when all my customers decided to continue with it. Graciano is not as rare as you think.

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#35 Post by Tony Trumbo » October 7th, 2017, 4:25 pm

Bill Gibbs wrote:Graciano is the next big thing. You may already be a fan, and not even know it.
Lisa outlined the tale in her article. The most popular (80%?) Mourvedre clone planted in the Paso Robles area over the last decade is Monastrell, the spanish clone. It is a popular ingredient in the very best Paso Rhone blends (GSMs, etc.). There are 100% bottlings of it. Only it isn't a clone of Mourvedre. Recent DNA testing reveals it to be Graciano. The rumor is that the local Nursery blames Plansel, the certifier of original material. If it is their error, than this is bigger than Paso. I think there is going to be a lot of relabeled wine next year, and the planted variety census will shift overnight. Don't be surprised that wines you love already have Graciano in them. It's a great grape and can make great wine, doesn't matter what you call it. In the interests of full disclosure, I was concerned upon learning my acres of Monastrell were not Mourvedre. I felt better when all my customers decided to continue with it. Graciano is not as rare as you think.
How many acre's did you have planted that turned out to be Graciano? Any sense on the amount in the Paso area also mislabeled?

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#36 Post by Bill Gibbs » October 7th, 2017, 5:02 pm

[quote="Tony Trumbo"

How many acre's did you have planted that turned out to be Graciano? Any sense on the amount in the Paso area also mislabeled?[/quote]

About 10.

Since Mataro and Monastrell are listed as Mourvèdre by the TTB, I believe a winemaker can use anyone of these interchangeably. No need to align them with clone name. So no way to tell from the label. Only the nurseries know how much has been planted. I can believe the 80% rumor. Planting wasn't my idea, customers ordered it.

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#37 Post by Manfred Krankl » October 7th, 2017, 5:36 pm

Just to be clear, we DID mean to plant Graciano, not Mourvèdre. We do have that grape too and frankly it tastes rather different from Graciano. A great grape that SHOULD be a Rhone variety. God, or someone, made a mistake.
Cheers.

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#38 Post by B. Buzzini » October 7th, 2017, 6:32 pm

Manfred Krankl wrote:Just to be clear, we DID mean to plant Graciano, not Mourvèdre. We do have that grape too and frankly it tastes rather different from Graciano. A great grape that SHOULD be a Rhone variety. God, or someone, made a mistake.
Cheers.
So M....can you tell us a little about how and when this new wine will be offered? ;) And...you can go ahead and pencil me in for some...thanks! :)
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#39 Post by Mark Christenson » October 7th, 2017, 8:55 pm

Jeb Dunnuck wrote:
Erich Sachse wrote:Back to the Graciano -- is there any info about production levels and/or how it will be released?

Hopefully not another mag-only limited release like "Writing on The Wall" for those of us more "junior" on the list
It's handled separately and released under the Third Twin label (the wine comes from their Third Twin Vineyard outside Los Alamos)... It will be released just like the Next of Kyn releases.
Thanks for posting--I was going to point out that this was already on your new website some time ago.
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#40 Post by Bill Gibbs » October 7th, 2017, 11:35 pm

Manfred Krankl wrote:Just to be clear, we DID mean to plant Graciano, not Mourvèdre. We do have that grape too and frankly it tastes rather different from Graciano. A great grape that SHOULD be a Rhone variety. God, or someone, made a mistake.
Cheers.
I would never suggest otherwise.
I am actually very thankful that, coincidentally, you are a leader in introducing the American market to Graciano. Who better?

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#41 Post by larry schaffer » October 8th, 2017, 10:04 am

Bill Gibbs wrote:Graciano is the next big thing. You may already be a fan, and not even know it.
Lisa outlined the tale in her article. The most popular (80%?) Mourvedre clone planted in the Paso Robles area over the last decade is Monastrell, the spanish clone. It is a popular ingredient in the very best Paso Rhone blends (GSMs, etc.). There are 100% bottlings of it. Only it isn't a clone of Mourvedre. Recent DNA testing reveals it to be Graciano. The rumor is that the local Nursery blames Plansel, the certifier of original material. If it is their error, than this is bigger than Paso. I think there is going to be a lot of relabeled wine next year, and the planted variety census will shift overnight. Don't be surprised that wines you love already have Graciano in them. It's a great grape and can make great wine, doesn't matter what you call it. In the interests of full disclosure, I was concerned upon learning my acres of Monastrell were not Mourvedre. I felt better when all my customers decided to continue with it. Graciano is not as rare as you think.
Would you care to share the entire article if possible? Is this something one of the wineries up there discovered? And why would they be curious about it?

I certainly know many wineries that use that clone but so many others use the Tablas cline, right?

I'm sure many Vineyard managers and owners down here would love to know more about this as well.
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#42 Post by Bill Gibbs » October 8th, 2017, 10:30 am

https://www.robertparker.com/articles/RwAiwyA68ha2rbGCG
Here is the link to the Robert Parker article by Lisa Perotti-Brown
USA, California’s Central Coast: Pearl Hunting
Its in a subscriber's only section, so I'm not sure how well it will work.

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#43 Post by larry schaffer » October 8th, 2017, 10:40 am

It is behind the paywall, my friend. Curious whether a specific Winery or group of wineries lead to the investigation or something else happened? And what percentage of folks up there do you think planted that clone is opposed to the Tablas clone?
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#44 Post by Drew Goin » October 18th, 2017, 7:41 am

Fascinating concept (Mourvedre that is actually Graciano). I am willing to believe it, as I have experienced so many different expressions of Mourvedre over the past few years. It would actually be fun to discover that I have been singing the praises of 3 different grapes, and not merely two (Mourvedre and Carignan). ;)

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#45 Post by larry schaffer » October 18th, 2017, 7:52 am

Drew,

I too have tasted a tremendous amount of 'variability' in domestic mourvedres over the past few years - but I'm not sure this can be attributed to this possible 'screw up'. I'm of the belief that there is a tremendous amount of variability due to a) site differences and, more importantly b) differences in 'understanding' the variety leading to picking/fermenting/oak treatment differences.

I did a tasting of SB County mourvedres not too long ago with some fairly knowledgable wine folks, and their faves were ones that I found overly ripe with lots of new oak - characteristics which I found masked the individuality of the variety.

Just my $.02 here . . .
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#46 Post by S. Stevenson » October 19th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:2014 Sine Qua Non Grenache Shakti 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Grenache Jusqu' a l'os 100
2015 Sine Qua Non Syrah Trouver L’Arene 100
2014 Sine Qua Non Syrah Piranha Waterdance 100
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Le Supplement 100
Wow. Ok then
Bit of a follow up from Lisa:
As you will see from my notes and scores, my excitement for these wines is about as fervent as it gets. Those who know me, know that I do not hand out 100-point scores lightly or often, but I am compelled to give a perfect score when the wine clearly deserves nothing less. My visit to Sine Qua Non was after having spent two weeks driving from Napa to Paso Robles and down to Santa Barbara, visiting wineries, staying in Airbnbs and tasting, tasting, tasting my way through more than 1,100 California Central Coast wines. At the risk of preaching to the many of the converted out there, I cannot but say openly what a lot of followers of this winery already know: Sine Qua Non is leagues ahead of most of the wineries of this major area in terms of not just signature style, consistency and plain deliciousness, but in terms of utmost quality. This is the undeniable truth right now. The levels to which the Krankls and their team have taken the vineyards in the heart of California Central Coast is astonishing. Their work ethic, creativity and no-compromise stance should be considered a beacon for other wineries seeking sky’s-the-limit heights.
Stan

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Re: SQN Graciano

#47 Post by Greg D » August 15th, 2018, 1:22 pm

"The Third Twin" mailing list can be signed up for now.
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Re: SQN Graciano

#48 Post by Eric S n y d e r » August 15th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Greg D wrote:
August 15th, 2018, 1:22 pm
"The Third Twin" mailing list can be signed up for now.
Can’t find a sign up website... link to site?
Or was this an invite only situation?

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Re: SQN Graciano

#49 Post by Leonard Taylor » August 15th, 2018, 1:32 pm

Could you share the link on signing up??
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Re: SQN Graciano

#50 Post by Charles Kersten » August 15th, 2018, 1:50 pm

thethirdtwin.net

The wine will be offered soon as a 4 pack 2 each from 2014 and 2015 vintage. I am really excited to try this and hope I signed up in time to get on the list.

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