BILD 800 Wine Room - Anyone know anything about these?

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BILD 800 Wine Room - Anyone know anything about these?

#1 Post by A S K R O B A C K » September 17th, 2017, 5:02 pm

All thoughts welcome.... I am looking for a low cost means to store as many bottles as possible in vacation home.

http://www.iwawine.com/bild-800-black-w ... gK2KvD_BwE

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#2 Post by GregT » September 17th, 2017, 5:08 pm

Don't know those specifically Drew but I do know some people who bought cool rooms from restaurant supply places. You can sometimes find those used and they're essentially the same thing. Would have to find some racking, but the few people I know who've done it have been quite pleased.
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#3 Post by A S K R O B A C K » September 17th, 2017, 5:12 pm

Interesting option, Greg. Will have to look into that. thx
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#4 Post by J.Durham » September 17th, 2017, 5:40 pm

Curious as well. I'm thinking about putting one in my garage but it sits around 95 in the summer which is the upper limit. Curious what others experience is like.
And is it hard to build?
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#5 Post by Peter Simpson » September 17th, 2017, 7:45 pm

I think these units are made by Le Cache.

http://www.lecachewinecabinets.com/wine-cabinets-bild
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#6 Post by CJ Beazley » September 18th, 2017, 4:55 am

Someone on the old board posted about buying a used one, and they were pretty handy so they took great pains to caulk, tape and seal all the joints, walls, where the walls meet the floor, etc. and apparently I worked out well. I'd also take extra precaution to make sure the door was square and sealed well. Just remembered him saying he could actually cram many more bottles in there than was advertised, if that sways your decision.
I have seen a few of these on Craigslist thru the years.
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#7 Post by Frank Drew » September 18th, 2017, 10:11 am

The wall panels and doors of restaurant style coolers are around 4" thick, more than most direct to consumer wine rooms. Restaurants close quite often so these units, often barely used, are sometimes available for a good price from restaurant supply houses. If you've got somewhere to park them (n.b. they're made to survive outdoors when necessary).

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#8 Post by John Morris » September 18th, 2017, 10:21 am

A S K R O B A C K wrote:All thoughts welcome.... I am looking for a low cost means to store as many bottles as possible in vacation home.

http://www.iwawine.com/bild-800-black-w ... gK2KvD_BwE
A cool idea. I'd never heard of this.

I don't see any mention of insulation ratings in the specs for this one, though, which raises red flags. And the door doesn't look particularly thick or insulated (leaving aside the glass). I would guess the restaurant-grade ones might be better insulated, since they would likely need to keep temperatures to refrigerator levels -- presumably 40F or something like that.
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#9 Post by C. Mc Cart » September 18th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Vintage Keeper used to make these years ago. I know someone that has one. Actually he has two that you could put together to make an even larger vault. He's had his going for years and it is VERY tightly packed to say the least. Great idea if you want something bigger than typical fridge, but don't want to be tied down to a $ build in a home you may not stay in.
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#10 Post by A S K R O B A C K » September 19th, 2017, 5:16 am

Frank Drew wrote:The wall panels and doors of restaurant style coolers are around 4" thick, more than most direct to consumer wine rooms. Restaurants close quite often so these units, often barely used, are sometimes available for a good price from restaurant supply houses. If you've got somewhere to park them (n.b. they're made to survive outdoors when necessary).
Thanks all. Does anyone have a link to such restaurant style coolers/supply houses?
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#11 Post by Frank Drew » September 19th, 2017, 7:29 am

Drew,

These units are commonly called walk-in coolers (or freezers); the other kind are called reach-ins. They're often made up of fairly easy to assemble panels, but not always. Here are a couple of links just to give you the idea:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/used-walk-in-coolers

http://www.polarking.com/walk-in-coolers-freezers.aspx

NYC used to have a lot of restaurant supply houses for both new and used, many down along the Bowery; these days, I don't know.

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#12 Post by A S K R O B A C K » September 20th, 2017, 5:36 pm

Thanks, Frank. They don't seem very easy to get into my basement. [wow.gif] Anyone ever bought a new or used walk-in and have any insight into how they are delivered and, presumably, built inside? [cheers.gif]
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#13 Post by kevanmah » March 12th, 2018, 1:39 pm

Bumping this up. I was thinking of biting the bullet on the BILD 800 to go into my den/office in the house.

Has anyone purchased one? Do they like it?

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#14 Post by David Glasser » March 12th, 2018, 10:04 pm

I built a similar pre-fab walk-in unit about 25 years ago. Capacity ~2000 bottles. Got it from IWA but not sure of their source. Not BILD back then. Walls were not thick enough to offer terrific insulation but the chiller had no trouble keeping a constant 55 degrees, and I don’t think it added much to the electric bill. It didn’t run much once it was half full. It was in a walk-out basement with ambient temps 68 to 78.

It came disassembled. The largest panels fit through the sliding door to the basement. They were moderately heavy and too unwieldy for 1 person to handle during assembly. There were a LOT of pieces to screw together to create the racking, but the pieces fit, the instructions were reasonably clear, and all the pieces were there. It took 2 of us about 2 and a half days to put it together. I’ve been thrilled with it and am sadly leaving it behind as we downsize.

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#15 Post by kevanmah » March 12th, 2018, 11:40 pm

David Glasser wrote:I built a similar pre-fab walk-in unit about 25 years ago. Capacity ~2000 bottles. Got it from IWA but not sure of their source. Not BILD back then. Walls were not thick enough to offer terrific insulation but the chiller had no trouble keeping a constant 55 degrees, and I don’t think it added much to the electric bill. It didn’t run much once it was half full. It was in a walk-out basement with ambient temps 68 to 78.

It came disassembled. The largest panels fit through the sliding door to the basement. They were moderately heavy and too unwieldy for 1 person to handle during assembly. There were a LOT of pieces to screw together to create the racking, but the pieces fit, the instructions were reasonably clear, and all the pieces were there. It took 2 of us about 2 and a half days to put it together. I’ve been thrilled with it and am sadly leaving it behind as we downsize.
Cool! Thanks so much for the info. I think this is the route I'm going to go. Invite some friends over to help and open up a nice bottle for the effort :)

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#16 Post by Jeffrey Neal » March 13th, 2018, 6:02 pm

Walk-in refrigerators are made with 4” insulation panels. The last ne we had built for our restaurant was about $12K (including the refrigeration unit).

An 8’ x 8’ walk-in with no refrigeration is about $4,500. A cellarpro cooling unit would add about $2K

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/nor-la ... L7788.html

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#17 Post by Karen Troisi » March 13th, 2018, 6:56 pm

We had one of the modular walk-in wine cellars in the late 90’s. Bought it from Wine Enthusiast. It took the two of us to put it together - if you are cnsidering buying one make sure you have some friends to help with assembly. We had the unit for about 5 years and sold it to a friend when we built a wine cellar. He has replaced the cooling unit once but the cellar module unit is still fine. A good option if you don’t want to commit to building a permanent wine cellar.
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#18 Post by kevanmah » March 13th, 2018, 8:16 pm

Jeffrey Neal wrote:Walk-in refrigerators are made with 4” insulation panels. The last ne we had built for our restaurant was about $12K (including the refrigeration unit).

An 8’ x 8’ walk-in with no refrigeration is about $4,500. A cellarpro cooling unit would add about $2K

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/nor-la ... L7788.html
Thats super cool. Im not sure if i could get a big stainless one wife-approved and it looks like it will cost a good chunk more than just doing the lacache BILD route. I wonder if I could make the exterior more stylish somehow because I like all the different options for sizes.
Would it work well for wine? How about humidity and noise levels on the cooler?

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#19 Post by M. Sai » March 13th, 2018, 8:17 pm

I'm in the middle of building my own version of this - but custom built with 2x4 framing, ply sheeting, pre-hung exterior steel door and spray foam insulation (R29). I shoot the spray foam this weekend. Cooler will be an 8000 btu window AC controlled by a CoolBot. Notice that the largest available cooler from CellarPro is less than 1900 btu...

$2200 all in. 750-ish bottle capacity.
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#20 Post by kevanmah » March 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm

M. Sai wrote:I'm in the middle of building my own version of this - but custom built with 2x4 framing, ply sheeting, pre-hung exterior steel door and spray foam insulation (R29). I shoot the spray foam this weekend. Cooler will be an 8000 btu window AC controlled by a CoolBot. Notice that the largest available cooler from CellarPro is less than 1900 btu...

$2200 all in. 750-ish bottle capacity.
This is a super interesting idea. I do love building things. Do you have any pics/guides/or info that you used for this?

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#21 Post by M. Sai » March 13th, 2018, 8:42 pm

Thanks - I’ll post a thread with details once I get close to finishing, but here is the outside - not pretty, but it’s an ‘all go, no show’ type of project - and it fits perfectly in the spot that was available. Size is 4’x6’x9’h.
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#22 Post by kevanmah » March 13th, 2018, 8:51 pm

M. Sai wrote:Thanks - I’ll post a thread with details once I get close to finishing, but here is the outside - not pretty, but it’s an ‘all go, no show’ type of project - and it fits perfectly in the spot that was available. Size is 4’x6’x9’h.
This looks awesome. Nothing a coat of paint wouldn't make look better.
I saw the demo video on coolbot of them building an outdoor one that looked pretty straightforward. I may go with a garage build similar to yours now. You are definitely getting the creating juices flowing.

Looking forward to your thread when you finish!

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#23 Post by M. Sai » March 13th, 2018, 8:58 pm

Cool - watch Amazon Warehouse Deals for a cooler, especially right now when the are out of season. I got mine for a song...may get a second at that price just to have a backup.

This is what I purchased - LG is the preferred vendor for CoolBot:
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#24 Post by Brian Hostetler » March 13th, 2018, 9:25 pm

Glad to see you finishing this up, M. I'm hoping to start mine in about a month, once the weather warms up enough to support shooting the foam. I look forward to your completion thread!

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#25 Post by M. Sai » March 14th, 2018, 5:59 am

Thanks - I hate it when little things like grad school get in the way... ;)
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#26 Post by Jeffrey Neal » March 14th, 2018, 8:35 pm

kevanmah wrote:
Jeffrey Neal wrote:Walk-in refrigerators are made with 4” insulation panels. The last ne we had built for our restaurant was about $12K (including the refrigeration unit).

An 8’ x 8’ walk-in with no refrigeration is about $4,500. A cellarpro cooling unit would add about $2K

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/nor-la ... L7788.html
Thats super cool. Im not sure if i could get a big stainless one wife-approved and it looks like it will cost a good chunk more than just doing the lacache BILD route. I wonder if I could make the exterior more stylish somehow because I like all the different options for sizes.
Would it work well for wine? How about humidity and noise levels on the cooler?
I think one of these could work well for wine if you use a wine cooling unit rather than the refrigeration units they sell. The BILD unit looks like a good deal too.

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#27 Post by Frank Drew » March 15th, 2018, 6:23 am

I don't think it's a big deal to swap thermostats for one that cools around mid-50s rather than normal 40ish refrigerator temps.

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#28 Post by Eric LaMasters » March 19th, 2018, 10:16 am

Has anyone tried one of these: http://www.vintagecellars.com/walk-ins/ ... -room-1300 ? It looks similar to the BILD, but is a bit larger, with a capacity of 1200+ bottles. It seems like a good value, but I'm curious if the quality of the panels and the racking is decent.
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#29 Post by kevanmah » March 19th, 2018, 9:14 pm

Eric LaMasters wrote:Has anyone tried one of these: http://www.vintagecellars.com/walk-ins/ ... -room-1300 ? It looks similar to the BILD, but is a bit larger, with a capacity of 1200+ bottles. It seems like a good value, but I'm curious if the quality of the panels and the racking is decent.
Image
Hadn't seen that one before. I do like that there is 5 different models so there is some choice on size instead of the BILD only having the one size.
That said, I think I feel more comfortable with BILD/Lecache due to reading what some of the people here have said about Lecache and the cooling unit that they use.

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#30 Post by Ben Argov » April 1st, 2018, 4:40 pm

BILD units are built by Le Cache, and the refrigeration units are made in the USA by CellarPro.

I believe the R-Value of the panels in the BILD 800 is R-9, but I am confirming and if that's wrong, I'll post the correct info.

I would definitely caution against placing the BILD 800 with our CellarPro 1800XTS cooling unit in a living space, because the noise level will be objectionable. It's really designed for garage environments, not living spaces.

CellarPro 1800XTS cooling units produce around 1900 BTUH, and they are the most powerful units in their class (1/4 ton nominal). (Btw these are not the most powerful units offered by CellarPro - not even close - CellarPro units go as large as 2 tons.)

Our advertised capacity for the BILD 800 (ie 800 bottles) is way low - eg, it doesn't account for any boxes or bottles that can be stored on the floor.

I don't know much about the cellars advertised by Vintage Cellars - eg R-Value, quality of construction, size of rack opening - but I can say definitively that, over the years, we've taken many calls from customers looking to replace their cooling units with a CellarPro cooling unit. In these cases, we've had some problems with their placement of the cooling unit near the bottom of the cellar, because the cold air struggles to circulate throughout the cellar, instead getting stuck in the bottom third of the cellar.

The BILD 800s are beasts - several years ago, one customer was very angry at us because of the size and weight when it was delivered (disassembled and on a pallet) - I'm not sure what we could have done differently on this score - but be prepared.

Hope this helps!

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#31 Post by David Glasser » April 1st, 2018, 6:43 pm

Eric LaMasters wrote:Has anyone tried one of these: http://www.vintagecellars.com/walk-ins/ ... -room-1300 ? It looks similar to the BILD, but is a bit larger, with a capacity of 1200+ bottles. It seems like a good value, but I'm curious if the quality of the panels and the racking is decent.
Image
I had the 1900 bottle version of that. It had 2 chillers mounted near the ceiling so the design predated this version. Quality of the paneling and racking was very good. Purchased about 25 years ago.

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#32 Post by Eric LaMasters » July 3rd, 2018, 8:05 pm

Eric LaMasters wrote:Has anyone tried one of these: http://www.vintagecellars.com/walk-ins/ ... -room-1300 ? It looks similar to the BILD, but is a bit larger, with a capacity of 1200+ bottles. It seems like a good value, but I'm curious if the quality of the panels and the racking is decent.
Image
I bought one of these units from vino-cellars.com, and just assembled it this weekend. I am very happy with it. It is very well built and was surprisingly easy to assemble. All the parts were well labeled and it clearly had been designed to be easy to assemble. Two of us got the whole thing finished in about three hours.
I ordered customized racking to have one side standard racking and the other side Champagne racking with two rows of Magnum racking. I was pleased that even very large over-sized Cabernet bottles and most Pinot bottles fit comfortably into the standard racking. The Champagne racking easily accommodates wide bottles like Taittinger Comtes and Turley. In fact, even many of my magnums fit easily into the Champagne racking.
I would heartily recommend this unit to anyone wanting to easily add some additional storage.

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#33 Post by Rich Brown » July 3rd, 2018, 8:44 pm

That's pretty sweet Eric - glad it worked out well and you're happy with it!

How's the sound level on those bad boys? Fairly quiet or is this the kinda thing you want in a room you don't spend a ton of time in?

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#34 Post by Eric LaMasters » July 3rd, 2018, 10:40 pm

Rich, I have it in an out-of-the-way spot so I haven't paid much attention to the sound. The cooling unit is a BreezAir WKL-3000. I don't think it is whisper-quiet, so I wouldn't probably want it in a living room. It isn't obnoxiously loud, though.

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#35 Post by Rich Brown » July 3rd, 2018, 11:16 pm

Gotcha. Was just curious if it was roaring loud or not. Congrats again on the cellar!

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#36 Post by David Glasser » July 4th, 2018, 3:51 am

Eric, that looks very similar to the ~2000 bottle unit I put in when we fished our basement over 25 years ago. You should be very happy with it. And if you are still living there when the chiller eventually fails (they don't last forever), CellarPro makes identically sized units.

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#37 Post by Bob S a r g e n t » January 28th, 2019, 8:31 am

Great info! Any updates on how this system is working? And has anyone used one in a colder clime, for example a garage that gets below freezing? Thanks, Bob

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#38 Post by Howard Cooper » January 28th, 2019, 1:25 pm

I used to have a similar type room in my basement - about 1300 bottles. Room was great in my basement. Only issue were the cooling units - none lasted more than 6 years, the Cellar Pro ones lasted less long. I now have a bigger cellar with a split unit cooling system.
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#39 Post by ChrisU » January 28th, 2019, 2:04 pm

Eric LaMasters wrote:
July 3rd, 2018, 8:05 pm
Eric LaMasters wrote:Has anyone tried one of these: http://www.vintagecellars.com/walk-ins/ ... -room-1300 ? It looks similar to the BILD, but is a bit larger, with a capacity of 1200+ bottles. It seems like a good value, but I'm curious if the quality of the panels and the racking is decent.
Image
I bought one of these units from vino-cellars.com, and just assembled it this weekend. I am very happy with it. It is very well built and was surprisingly easy to assemble. All the parts were well labeled and it clearly had been designed to be easy to assemble. Two of us got the whole thing finished in about three hours.
I ordered customized racking to have one side standard racking and the other side Champagne racking with two rows of Magnum racking. I was pleased that even very large over-sized Cabernet bottles and most Pinot bottles fit comfortably into the standard racking. The Champagne racking easily accommodates wide bottles like Taittinger Comtes and Turley. In fact, even many of my magnums fit easily into the Champagne racking.
I would heartily recommend this unit to anyone wanting to easily add some additional storage.
I just took delivery of almost the same thing. So much so that I thought I posted this and didn't remember writing it until i looked at your avatar. Except I did one side with standard and the other with all champagne. Good to know that some mags also fit in the champagne slots. So far mine is kicking on a lot even though our house is relatively cool (ours is in an office in the house - garage gets too hot), but I only have about the bottom couple of rows filled with wine until I can transfer everything from my wine locker. I'll be switching to a bottle probe in the interim. champagne.gif
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#40 Post by Mark Christenson » January 28th, 2019, 2:31 pm

I was given a used one of the version posted by Eric and Chris. I keep in in the garage, and it gets hot in San Diego from July-September (we crack the garage door, but it still gets to 100ºF). It was a bit of a pain to disassemble, move, and rebuild, but with plenty of caulking to make it airtight it has worked great for probably three years. I do worry a bit about the life of the refrigeration unit, but it has worked well and doesn't run all the time (unlike my previous, 600-bottle Vinotemp that was, let's just say, less-than-ideal).
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#41 Post by David Glasser » January 29th, 2019, 1:27 am

Once the cellar is over half full the cycling will slow down. In the meantime the bottle probe will reduce cycling without risk to the wines.

I’ve had much better than average luck with cooling units. Maybe because they’re in a below grade basement where they don’t have to work that hard. My Breezaires lasted 10 and 12 years and I haven’t had a CellarPro quit on me yet. But they will. Why I recommend two. A split system should last longer. If you’ve got the layout to accommodate one it will probably be cheaper over your lifetime than the cost of replacing self-contained units.

Ben Argov
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Re: BILD 800 Wine Room - Anyone know anything about these?

#42 Post by Ben Argov » January 29th, 2019, 6:53 am

It’s interesting that split systems are reputed to last longer than self-contained units. We haven’t seen that trend - based on our experience, if taking into account failures due to improper installations (because splits are much more complicated to install), split failures far surpass the failures of self-contained units.

What’s the theory for why splits last longer? My theory is that splits are more commonly purchased from higher-end manufacturers, whereas self-contained units include the junk made by the lower-end manufacturers, and/or self-contained units too often are installed into improperly-constructed “closet conversions” whereas splits seem to be more commonly installed in properly constructed cellars.

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David Glasser
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Re: BILD 800 Wine Room - Anyone know anything about these?

#43 Post by David Glasser » January 29th, 2019, 7:33 am

Ben, your experience beats my speculation. I’ve never had a split system for wine storage. I’m just making assumptions based on comparisons to the length of time our home AC systems have lasted. Maybe not a valid assumption given the different temperature and humidity levels required for cellar conditions.

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