How often is counterfeit wine sold on WineBid?

I log into WineBid and for giggles click on the “rare” 1982 Petrus which is being featured. There is currently a winning bid of $2,950. I generally don’t spend more than $100 on a bottle of wine so this super high end rare wine world is not where I play. But with all the talk of wine fraud out there, it got me thinking…what are the odds that a decent number of super high end bottles on WineBid (or other similar places) are fake? I mean, how do you bid $3k for something that has a simple description and 2 photos???

I checked the terms of service for the site and they clearly state they aren’t vouching for the authenticity.

The property described on the WineBid Website will be offered for sale by WineBid.com Inc. as a marketing agent on behalf of the Seller. Every attempt has been made to describe all property as accurately as possible. However WineBid does not warrant or represent, and denies responsibility for the accuracy of the descriptions, encompassing but not limited to vintage, provenance, authenticity, quality and condition as may be stated on the site. Any and all statements made relating to the property offered on the site are merely statement of opinion and at no time can be construed as warranties and representations of fact or assumptions of any liability on the part of WineBid.

So what am I missing here? Or are people really just bidding recklessly?

Not that different from most auction houses (2 photos and a small description).

Sounds like the usual auction house caveats.

For bricks and mortar auctions, it very much pays to go in person, check the levels, wine colour, bottle condition and for fancier bottles, definitely look for things that don’t look right in terms of authenticity. In addition, it allows you to ferret around in mixed lots that occasionally hide a gem, note any corrections, bid on last minute additions to the auction, avoid auctioneers deploying fake bids to ensure you pay the full amount of your commission bid, plus have the option to take multiple lots at the same price if you win the 1st lot.

Online has advantages in terms of cutting overhead costs, but relies on very accurate listings / greater trust. I would expect they have much more of a problem with purchasers taking exception to what arrives, if it appears something isn’t right / as advertised. I would expect vendor payment to be held until the wine is received by the purchaser, who may have a limited time to flag up concerns.

Yeah, it’s a problem. Similar to the art world. I know people that say the ‘real’ Mona Lisa is under someone’s bed and the one hanging in The Louvre is a fake.

Very hard to say, as tt almost never gets discussed here. I do recall last year they supposedly had 4 bottles of 1934 DRC Richebourg Vieux Cepages (A unicorn of a unicorn wine) which were taken down within days of the bidding opening, so one can draw the conclusion that they were not real. Again, no discussion here about it, so I have to imagine it went largely unnoticed. So if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to report it, then it’s hard to say what happened.

My Winebid purchases are typically too cheap and unglamorous to attract fakers. Who would bother to fake a $20 1991 Sonoma merlot?

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Exactly. If you’re buying collector trophies, you need to be educated and diligent about the risk of fakes.

If you’re buying lower and mid wines to drink like I used to, I don’t think it’s ever worth worrying about.

So at what price point should we start worrying?

As someone who’s perused every sing winebid auction, I don’t recall every hearing about counterfeits. There have been mislisted bottles and other issues that cause then to immediately pull the lot. Once or twice, in response to buyer complaints that point to questionable storage, they’ve pulled every single lot from that seller. They built up their operation by delivering. They accurately describe bottle conditions (which most online sellers of older wines don’t) and the wines they sell have a high batting average relative to that. Their customer base are regulars and their auctions are weekly.

It’s like pornography - you’ll know when you see it.

I remember seeing this crap a few months back. I LOLed at the pristine label and fill level.

MOTOVATING WINE BUYERS? Counterfeit, Manipulation, Error OR Fraud?


FAKE - Rating/review

CA: Napa. Add 15% buyer’s premium to all bids. Tax payable on auction fees and/or commission.

2005 Godme Pere et Fils Chardonnay Brut Les Alouettes Saint Bets [I5180731], Chardonnay - 1er (Premier) Cru, France, Champagne $ 60.00 AUCTION:Bottle 23-Jul-2015

2005 Godme Pere et Fils Chardonnay Brut Les Alouettes Saint Bets

Item #I5180731

Available5 (Uncontested)

Starting Bid$60

High Estimate$85

Format Individual bottles

Size750ml

Type Sparkling, Chardonnay, 1er (Premier) Cru

Appellation France, Champagne

Provenance Removed from a professional wine storage facility

The ALLEGED Wine Advocate rating/review by winebid: 94

Lemon, pastry, savory herbs and crushed rocks all jump from the glass in this precise, beautifully articulated wine…all about the energy, precision and pure tension of Chardonnay allied to the structure and cool bracing minerality…”

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The Wine Advocate Review & Rating:

2005 Godme Pere et Fils Brut Chardonnay les Alouettes Saint Bets

A Chardonnay Dry White Sparkling wine from

France, Verzenay, Champagne, France

Source-eRobertParker.com #1113
Reviewer-David Schildknecht
Rating-91
Maturity-Drink 2013 - 2017
Current (Release) Cost- (120)

Representing the second installment of cask-vinified Chardonnay from a thin-soiled plot of 40-year-old vines in Villers-Marmery, Godme’s 2005 Brut Les Alouettes delivers a winning combination of lusciously ripe peach and orange with mouthwatering salinity. While harboring a mere four grams of residual sugar, this isn’t labeled “extra brut,” and if you’d asked me, I would have guessed that six to seven grams had been put to work encouraging such vivid and rich fruit impressions. Maritime alkalinity and black tea smokiness add intrigue and piquant peach kernel serves to intensify the glowing persistence of this bottling that will no doubt replay at least 3-4 years of attention.

Heavy signs of past seepage

And yet the fill level looks like it’s hardly lost a drop… smh.

I had to return a lot of fake wines awhile back. However I still have a couple fake bottles that WB refuses to take back.

Kevin,

Care to let us know what the bottles were?

Cheers.

You have to wonder why these would show up on WineBid. I suppose if the seller had only these two bottles to sell, WineBid might be a practical way to dispose of them, as an auction house probably wouldn’t be bothered with two bottles. But I would think a retailer might be able to offer more, and would give the seller an assured price.

Larry,
The high end Bordeaux and Burgundy. I asked if they were Rudy wines and the answer was clear no. Two that are still in my possession are the 69 Roumier BM with Remoissenet capsule and the 71 Petrus.
Kevin

Looked and tasted as most genuine.

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