Why I do not score wines...

I am adding on to the thoughtful comments of Subu Ramachandran in the Leve thread…In the last couple years I stopped attaching a score to wines…The reasoning is, how can you apply a fixed score to something that is constantly evolving and changing?..and sometimes not for the best…I guess we see the sliding scale range like 90-93 for example, but for me this still doesn’t work…where are the 93-90 descending sliding scale scores? Truth is, many of these wines fall apart just a often as they improve. I guess as a critic you have to play nice to a certain degree, play the game etc… Sure I have seen the rare ( - ) added to a score (does this is add a smidge of street cred. for the critic?) Regardless, this happens very few and far between.

Another reason is, I have seen a wine change so dramatic over the next day or two that if I was to apply a score it would have looked like this: 84-92pts. (8points in 24hrs!!) Plus if you look at the Parker scoring you could have a superior tasting wine rated much lower in score than an inferior tasting wine. I believe most tasters are going to go more by taste than anything, again a disconnect.

for example:

wine 1: 50+20(taste)+9 (nose)+3 (color) +8 (overall quality) score: 90 points

wine 2: 50+17(taste)+13 (nose)+5 (color) +9 (overall quality) score: 94 points

If you didn’t see this broken down you would choose the inferior tasting (wine #2) majority of the time

I have seen it too many times to count, disappointed tasters, sitting there dumbfounded declaring, “I don’t get it, this got 93 points”

So again, there is disconnect for consumers. Therefore, if you are the score a wine I suggest breaking the scoring down in an itemized fashion. Then if you wanted to add a sliding scale to this, tell me what components you think are going to improve or decline based on your experience? This is probably asking way too much, but in a perfect world…though I believe a scoring breakdown in general would be a nice start.


Maybe I missed some of the previous debates on this, but please tell me I’m not a fuqn outlier here?

Whether its score or verbal affirmation of some sort, a meaningful tasting note should describe whether or not the taster actually enjoyed the wine or at least whether the wine was well made for that style of wine. I can’t tell you how many tasting notes I’ve read on this Board and wondered whether the person actually liked the wine or whether they were simply good at I-Spy. Of course I want to know the flavor profile and whether it was balanced, but in the end the sum is more important than the parts.

wine 1: 50+20(taste)+9 (nose)+3 (color) +8 (overall quality) score: 90 points

wine 2: 50+17(taste)+13 (nose)+5 (color) +9 (overall quality) score: 94 points

It’s why I don’t understand most people’s tasting notes.

Points for color?

Points for the aroma?
“It stinks but I really like it but I can only give it 89 because it didn’t do so well on the smell test and besides, I don’t think the color really works.”

Points are only a quick way to indicate whether or not you like a wine. They’re convenient if someone cares to know your opinion without reading the verbiage. They’re nothing absolute, and since most people aren’t great tasters anyway, their likes and dislikes are not particularly important, and their verbiage is less so.

Parker points used to matter, some of the WS points did, and that’s about it. Nobody buys a wine because Jancis gave it 18.5 points, at least not enough people to matter in the market, and same with anyone else. Look at all the threads congratulating this or that wine maker when he gets high Parker scores, and try to find one that congratulates anyone for anyone else’s scores.

People will buy points because there’s a shelf talker that says 92 points, but in that case, it really doesn’t matter who that shelf talker is from and it’s not really worth the reviewer worrying about. If Vinous hands out 84 points and Suckling hands out 93 for the same wine, no retailer will use the Vinous points so they won’t matter. If no “name” reviewer hands out 93 points but some lady down the block does, retailers will use that lady’s score. Leve scores and Dunnuck scores are pretty much like that lady’s.

Some people on boards like this will have favorite reviewers and buy things based on their fave’s suggestions, but it’s miniscule numbers of people who buy from those reviews, even here. Shelf talkers on the other hand, sell exclusively by points, not by reviews, and it doesn’t matter whose points those are because the customer is just looking for some kind of validation from someone.

So if you’re not Parker, it doesn’t pay to worry about the “accuracy” of your scores.

If people like Jeff and others care to write about wine, that’s nice - it’s their passion so why not. But nobody is moving the market. Attaching a score is just a shorthand way of telling you how much they liked a wine at a particular time and place. There’s no need to worry about accuracy - what’s the dif between two points in either direction?

OTOH, if they say they really loved a Chardonnay but didn’t care for the dark brown color and so only scored it 90 points, draw your own conclusions.

I give this thread a 92 but after a few more posts and a day or 2 to get some legs it could be a 95.

Good point. Threads are always better with some air. It’s why I generally try not to read until the second day.

[basic-smile.gif] [cheers.gif]

I was expecting more of a 85-87 range,

Why 50 points just for showing up?

Talk about ‘rating inflation.’ (Wine college is full of this improperly entitled wines thinking they are all 94 pointers when, in fact, they are actually 44 pointers.)

Back in my day, a crap wine could get a zero, now they get fifty points just because they can be poured into a glass?

Buncha snowflake wines is what I think. Stop coddling them.

What’s next “Participant Medals” so no wine at one of those phony competitions feels left out, no matter how lousy? (Hell, what am I saying? We already have “bronze medals” for those wines.)

Besides that, I feel tastes and aroma are too closely intertwined to give them separate ratings ‘numbers.’ (I realize that may be controversial.)

Points are a way to quantify how much someone likes a wine. I personally find write ups utterly useless without a numeric value as there is littler reference point. Might be flawed but I’ve yet to see something better than a 100pt scale, at least for me.

Very much this ^

+1

20 point scales and even 5-point scales work – just something to indicated the taster’s relative preferences.

How useful are Clive Coates’s “Fine,” “Very Fine, Indeed” and so on comments?

So, anything beyond a two digit score is TLDR? champagne.gif

That’s like only looking at GPA to determine the quality of one of your law firm’s applicants. [stirthepothal.gif]

So wait . . . we like points now? Did I miss a meeting?

Anything a taster can do to communicate clearly their enthusiasm for a wine is ok by me. If someone tastes a bdx, says its classic, and gives it a 95, that tells me one hell of a lot more than a paragraph of obscure references to fruit I’ve never seen or prior wines I’ve never had (“a hypothetical combination of 59 Petrus and 66 Segla, with a dash of Screagle just to keep you guessing”).

On the other hand, I never have trouble discerning how enthusiastic F Audouze is about a bottle without a score.

Ah, so, the crux of this biscuit is the prose.

For someone who can’t communicate a tasting experience in a comprehensible fashion, a numerical score renders that taster suddenly more insightful. Why trust a number from someone who can’t tell you where it came from?

i’m 96 points on this post.

Ok yes, good points

In addition, with a great wine, I could see a motivation to apply a score, ESPECIALLY, if you would like your note read. Lots of us are passionate about our tasting notes, they are creative, interesting and well crafted.
I can see myself more interested in reading a note IF a high score is attached…though if a score of 85 is attached, I may probably take a pass.

Still, I would love to see the notes broken down as a line-item type scoring of each component…that would really peak my interest.

As long as the prose includes an apostrophe.

Up to 5 points for label artwork.

At last check, about $30-$50.

HA

and we know this>>>actually just for the label

like the power of the suit

the power of the prestigious label always garner a couple extra points.

And another 7 for the view from the tasting room porch.