Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

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Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

#1 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » July 5th, 2017, 4:45 am

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#2 Post by Brian Lynch » July 5th, 2017, 4:56 am

Ever eat at a 3 star tire company restaurant?

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#3 Post by M A T T H A R T L E Y » July 5th, 2017, 5:02 am

Brian Lynch wrote:Ever eat at a 3 star tire company restaurant?
The subject line was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek...

The way the TWA worded their version of the release, it sounds like they actually raised new equity vs. Michelin buying existing shares...which is interesting.

Also wonder if this deal getting inked prompted Jeb to head for the hills.
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#4 Post by T Klonoski » July 5th, 2017, 5:03 am

"notes of burnt rubber and roadkill"
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#5 Post by Ian Dorin » July 5th, 2017, 5:17 am

This has super interesting written all over it. This may be the smartest thing they've ever done.
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#6 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 5th, 2017, 5:53 am

This was a way to raise capital while aligning the pub with high-lux branding. Makes sense. I suppose LVMH was out so this is next best.
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#7 Post by Anton D » July 5th, 2017, 6:51 am

One hundred point restaurant scale, here we come!

This deal probably cost Michelin several hundred dollars!
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#8 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 5th, 2017, 8:17 am

This is part & parcel of a really ugly phenomenon laying waste to the entire world today.

I was reading an article this morning about how people in Europe can't afford to live in their hometowns anymore:

Bye-bye locals: Europe's city centres sound alarm
http://www.france24.com/en/20170705-bye ... ound-alarm

With the central banksters' monetization of everything, there's so much fake money floating around in the system that if you don't have direct access to The Source, then you're nothing more than an ant which is about to be squished beneath the boot of Global Finance.

And the result which you see in contemporary economic dynamical systems is a binary outcome space which consists of quickly achieving monopolization status in some sustainable niche, or rapidly disappearing into bankruptcy.

So either Robert Parker Inc hitches its star to a well-financed globalist entity, like Michelin, or Robert Parker Inc is washed out to sea by Cellar Tracker & Snooth & Yelp & AirBNB & Open Table & whatnot.

In fact, I'd guess that the new Open Table [with its verified-diner rating system of restaurants] poses a severe threat to Michelin's travel & dining interests.

Note that Open Table is now a subsidiary of Priceline, and even Michelin might not have enough money to bag Priceline.

BTW, has anyone looked at Chow Hound recently?

It's a wasteland.

Fake money has decimated the very concept of cottage industry.

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#9 Post by GregT » July 5th, 2017, 8:27 am

Nathan - Michelin doesn't have nearly enough money to bag Priceline. More likely the other way around. Priceline's market cap is around 90 billion, Michelin's is about a fifth of that.
Neal.Mollen wrote:This was a way to raise capital while aligning the pub with high-lux branding. Makes sense. I suppose LVMH was out so this is next best.
I don't know Neal - if the WA were a successful operation with positive cash flow, why would it need to raise capital?

Alternatively, this is was a way for the Singapore investors to cut some of their losses. The release doesn't say how much Parker had to say about it, whether he even comes along as part of the package and if so, for how long, or whether he is still physically up to reviewing much wine. He's backed off from his main areas and isn't in great health from some reports.
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#10 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 5th, 2017, 8:43 am

GregT wrote:Nathan - Michelin doesn't have nearly enough money to bag Priceline. More likely the other way around. Priceline's market cap is around 90 billion, Michelin's is about a fifth of that.
Now take your index finger and point it at something which Priceline produces.

It's utter insanity.

Here's a screenshot of Priceline's monetizations:
priceline_MONETIZATIONS.png
priceline_MONETIZATIONS.png (159.03 KiB) Viewed 3253 times
And here's a screenshot of Trip Advisor's monetizations:
trip-advisor_MONETIZATIONS.png
trip-advisor_MONETIZATIONS.png (132.85 KiB) Viewed 3253 times
Normal folks can't play this game.

It's the exclusive province of globalists with access to Fake Money.

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#11 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 5th, 2017, 8:57 am

There have been some really good articles lately about how the airlines are now themselves simply players in Global Monetization Inc, e.g.:

Airlines make more money selling miles than seats

http://www.expressnews.com/business/nat ... 051066.php

It turns out that the scam involves forcing the Cottage Industrialists [the hotels & motels & BnBs & restaurants & wine shops & whatnot] to eat 6 points or more on credit card transactions, with the wolves getting 4 or 5 points of that, and the airlines getting one or two points, which they then convert into a new Fake Currency called "Frequent Flyer Miles".

And the idiot consumeristic sheep think they're getting Free Shit when in fact everyone is now paying an extra six points or more to subsidize these new Fake Currencies [with the ostensibly prudent & penurious, who pay in cash, getting hit the hardest].

It's all just Monetization upon Monetization upon Monetization, fueled by the never-ending creation of Fake Money, courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Central Banksters.

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#12 Post by M. Sai » July 5th, 2017, 9:29 am

When did RP start is own K-Pop group?

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#13 Post by Paul Luckin » July 5th, 2017, 10:39 am

M. Sai wrote:When did RP start is own K-Pop group?

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#14 Post by Drew Goin » July 5th, 2017, 10:51 am

T Klonoski wrote:"notes of burnt rubber and roadkill"
:P :P

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#15 Post by John Morris » July 5th, 2017, 11:18 am

"The power of the ratings given to fine wines are based on the noses and palates of the passionate wine critic and his team of experts, but also on a methodology that is unique in this field."

Hmm. If you say so.
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#16 Post by GregT » July 5th, 2017, 1:04 pm

But Nathan - I don't think this has anything to do with fake money. It's just a company getting scammed by another. Forty percent non-controlling interest in a one-man shop where the proprietor is heading out the door for good?

And there is a solution to your money issues - block chain technology! Look at the market cap of Bitcoin or Ethereum.
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#17 Post by Arv R » July 5th, 2017, 1:37 pm

John Morris wrote:
"The power of the ratings given to fine wines are based on the noses and palates of the passionate wine critic and his team of experts, but also on a methodology that is unique in this field."

Hmm. If you say so.
The WA cognoscenti have a proprietary 100 pt scale, that no one else has figured out yet.

Sure people talk about 110 pts and other such pie in the sky ideas.

But like the 4 minute mile, and the self scooping dog, such dreams are beyond todays systems.

Perhaps Michelin thinks they can apply the 100 pt technology to their legacy star ratings technology.

A strategic deal as great as Packard + Studebaker, or Packard + Compaq.
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#18 Post by John Morris » July 5th, 2017, 3:02 pm

Michelin does have a pretty strict methodology, and they don't give out a lot of three-star ratings. You wonder if they imagine imposing some discipline on Parker et al. -- a strict set of rules for awarding points for different components of a wine, multiple tastings of the same wine on different occasions and a rationing of top rankings.... [shock.gif]
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#19 Post by R. Frankel » July 5th, 2017, 4:23 pm

GregT wrote:
I don't know Neal - if the WA were a successful operation with positive cash flow, why would it need to raise capital?
I have no clue about the economics of this deal, but there are many reasons to do a deal like this. Most likely previous investors and insiders saw an opportunity to cash out and took it. Something any wise owner of a small business likes to do.

The combination of these two brands makes total sense to me. They are both publishers and distributors of information/opinion on luxury products with huge overlap. In biz parlance this is called adjacency. Michelin's tire biz is clearly not relevant.
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#20 Post by P@u1_M3nk3s » July 5th, 2017, 5:50 pm

This thread is spinning it's wheels. I'm tired of it.
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#21 Post by Ken Strauss » July 5th, 2017, 6:00 pm

John Morris wrote:
"The power of the ratings given to fine wines are based on the noses and palates of the passionate wine critic and his team of experts, but also on a methodology that is unique in this field."

Hmm. If you say so.
Independence and integrity separates WA from most of the rest.

Parker was the the leader in this area.

Also his calculations in awarding points is unique.

This is a great combination that I for one will respect.
"Explaining is not supporting."

"Independence is a state of mind"

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#22 Post by Kelly Walker » July 5th, 2017, 6:32 pm

3 Stars = 97 -100 points
2 Stars = 94 -96 points
1 Star = 90 - 93 points

Troisgros 98 points
Dal Pescatore 99 points

Funny but not beyond possibility.

Ironically David S. used to score wines on the three star scale.
White wines matter

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#23 Post by Nathan Smyth » July 5th, 2017, 6:41 pm

GregT wrote:But Nathan - I don't think this has anything to do with fake money.
Global Finance is devouring everything in its path.

A retired lawyer, living on his parents' old cow farm, out in the middle of nowhere, sampling wines in the peace & quiet of the garage, can't hope to compete with Global Finance.

You either figure out a way to get your IV Drip laced with Fake Money, or you go to the morgue.

And all of the economic statistics are now reflecting this horrible reality.

PS: As you're pointing out above, I'm not even sure that Michelin can compete with the Fake Money which has been lavished upon the likes of Priceline [or Trip Advisor].

PPS: I just glanced at the Monetizations of Expedia - my God, they've got Fake Money bleeding out of their ears.
expedia_MONETIZATIONS.png
expedia_MONETIZATIONS.png (236.93 KiB) Viewed 2178 times
Nobody in a Cottage Industry can compete with Fake Money like that - not Robert Parker, not Stephen Tanzer, not James Suckling, not Antonio Galloni, not Allen Meadows, not any of them - not even the ghost of Auberon Waugh himself.

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#24 Post by Scott Everson » July 5th, 2017, 7:32 pm

Any idea how much they paid? Didn't Parker sell it for 15 million? I always thought he would have gotten more. If Michelin paid six million to prostitute the WA name then that was a super smart move. They can go the way of LVMH and pair high cuisine/fine wine with urban chic and blow it up.

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#25 Post by Mel Knox » July 5th, 2017, 7:48 pm

I have never understand what is so special about a 100 pt system vs a 20 p-t system...unless you want to go to 1000 pts!!

Hasn t Parker said that scores just come to him in his head??

It isn t just in Europe where nobody can afford to live. There was a story in the paper here about a school teacher who was homeless. I just saw an ad for what we used to call a townhouse ( a two story duplex) in what used to be ghetto for 1.8 million.

Airlines miles?? What a joke...impossible to use in a meaningful way, unless you are one of those guys who really flies a lot.

By the way, there is/was a three star restaurant in London called Bibendum....who is also the icon of Michelin
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#26 Post by GregT » July 5th, 2017, 8:05 pm

Well since this thread has taken that turn -

There was, or still is, a guy at Google who decided rents were too high so he bought a truck and lives out of that. Said the bed was the only part of an apartment he needed and the box truck held his mattress so he was good.

Apparently there are a number of high-tech employees who live in their cars and trucks. Housing prices are high in the Bay area.

Then there's Detroit. My mother's neighbor just outside the City had his house on the market for several years before it sold. The city is begging people to move in. And Tesla is more valuable than Ford.

And don't tell me about Priceline. I owned that stock when it was thirty bucks. Clearly I'm working with a substandard IQ because I sold it many years ago, figuring that they didn't really have anything someone else could do just as well. Then one day I'm driving from work and I hear on the radio that the stock had just cleared $1000 a share. I almost ran off the road.

But I think wine reviewing is different. Anyone can do it, everyone does, and there's no money in it for investors or owners.
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#27 Post by G. Keeler » July 5th, 2017, 9:33 pm

Mel Knox wrote:
By the way, there is/was a three star restaurant in London called Bibendum....who is also the icon of Michelin
Still there but don't think it has any stars.
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#28 Post by paul hanna » July 6th, 2017, 12:58 am

We bought the Singapore app last month for our recent trip and I thought at the time WTF?

Fair to say it was (as an app) pretty disappointing, still a long way to go to get it to where it should be....

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#29 Post by Ken V » July 6th, 2017, 6:13 am

paul hanna wrote:We bought the Singapore app last month for our recent trip and I thought at the time WTF?

Fair to say it was (as an app) pretty disappointing, still a long way to go to get it to where it should be....
I think you've hit on the key to this deal. They want the guy who designed My Wines to run their software development program! Genius!
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#30 Post by John Morris » July 6th, 2017, 6:18 am

Mel Knox wrote: By the way, there is/was a three star restaurant in London called Bibendum....who is also the icon of Michelin
That was once a tire shop!
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#31 Post by Jay Miller » July 6th, 2017, 6:49 am

P@u1_M3nk3s wrote:This thread is spinning it's wheels. I'm tired of it.
Are you saying you feel like you're on a tread-mill? That the experience has gone flat?
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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Hmmmm..

#32 Post by TomHill » July 6th, 2017, 7:27 am

Ken Strauss wrote:
John Morris wrote:
"The power of the ratings given to fine wines are based on the noses and palates of the passionate wine critic and his team of experts, but also on a methodology that is unique in this field."
Hmm. If you say so.
Independence and integrity separates WA from most of the rest.
Parker was the the leader in this area.
Also his calculations in awarding points is unique.
This is a great combination that I for one will respect.
Could you give me a link, Ken, on how he goes about his calculations??
Tom

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#33 Post by Mel Knox » July 6th, 2017, 9:08 am

About people living in vans, etc: I noticed a sign on a street here that said no vehicles taller than six feet could park there. That's to prevent overnight parking by people living in their mobile homes.

Palo Alto just passed an ordinance about this. The problem there is that nobody who works for the city, firemen, cops, teachers, can afford to live anywhere near the place.

Tom, when you get that link, be sure to pass it along.
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#34 Post by TomHill » July 6th, 2017, 9:28 am

Mel Knox wrote:About people living in vans, etc: I noticed a sign on a street here that said no vehicles taller than six feet could park there. That's to prevent overnight parking by people living in their mobile homes.

Palo Alto just passed an ordinance about this. The problem there is that nobody who works for the city, firemen, cops, teachers, can afford to live anywhere near the place.

Tom, when you get that link, be sure to pass it along.
Will do, Mel, when I get it from Ken.
Having done a few calculations in my lifetime, I can't recall any that I would consider unique. Anybody can do them.
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#35 Post by Ken Strauss » July 7th, 2017, 7:28 am

TomHill wrote:
Mel Knox wrote:About people living in vans, etc: I noticed a sign on a street here that said no vehicles taller than six feet could park there. That's to prevent overnight parking by people living in their mobile homes.

Palo Alto just passed an ordinance about this. The problem there is that nobody who works for the city, firemen, cops, teachers, can afford to live anywhere near the place.

Tom, when you get that link, be sure to pass it along.
Will do, Mel, when I get it from Ken.
Having done a few calculations in my lifetime, I can't recall any that I would consider unique. Anybody can do them.
Tom
Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
"Explaining is not supporting."

"Independence is a state of mind"

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Thanks...

#36 Post by TomHill » July 7th, 2017, 8:28 am

Ken Strauss wrote:
TomHill wrote:
Will do, Mel, when I get it from Ken.
Having done a few calculations in my lifetime, I can't recall any that I would consider unique. Anybody can do them.
Tom
Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
Thanks for that info, Ken.
I guess that that doesn't make the Parker 100-pt system unique. As distinguished from the WineSpec 100-pt system.
As distinguished from the Connoisseur'sGuide 100-pt system. For example, the Davis 20-pt system has 10 different
categories by which it awards points (http://finias.com/wine/ucd_scoring.htm). The Davis system is, in fact,
a scientific scoring system of wine quality and you have to be trained in its use. OTOH, all the 100-pt systems are hedonic
scoring systems...point systems on how much you like the wine. They would be of zero use in analyzing, say, the
effectiveness of millipore filteration on the quality of a wine, as the Davis system would be (and has been).

I really doubt that Parker (given the number of wines he scores) actually does the computation in awarding his scores.
So that doesn't give his scoring system some sort of a scientific basis. It really his experience that makes his scores
have far more validity than any other's 100-pt scores. Which is why I, and most other wine geeks, give Parker's point
scores much more credence than anybody else's. It's not the scoring system, but the person, that makes the score.
My take on the whole issue, anyway.
Tom

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#37 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 7th, 2017, 8:56 am

Ken Strauss wrote:Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
Yeah, I hate to be the one to break the news that there is no Santa Claus, but he doesn't actually do any of that math. He just picks a number. We know that because there were some magazine articles that had snapshots of his notebooks and there were no "50+5+15+20+10" calculations there. Just the scores.

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#38 Post by Ken Strauss » July 7th, 2017, 1:20 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
Ken Strauss wrote:Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
Yeah, I hate to be the one to break the news that there is no Santa Claus, but he doesn't actually do any of that math. He just picks a number. We know that because there were some magazine articles that had snapshots of his notebooks and there were no "50+5+15+20+10" calculations there. Just the scores.
I guess after thousands of wines he can do the math in his head. General color is easy he said with modern wine making techniques most wines are 4 or 5. Now you are down to 3 categories.

In any event it definitely is not scientific.

You have to trust the person and the nose.

When I 1st started collecting I bought many a wine based on his reviews and was never disappointed.

As he brought new critics on board I am sure he taught them his logic and methods.
"Explaining is not supporting."

"Independence is a state of mind"

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Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

#39 Post by Mel Knox » July 7th, 2017, 1:30 pm

I have read that Parker has said that a number just comes to him...maybe he was just pulling somebody's leg...
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#40 Post by John Morris » July 7th, 2017, 1:42 pm

Ken Strauss wrote: As he brought new critics on board I am sure he taught them his logic and methods.
That assumes that everyone perceives things in the same way and has the same style preferences.

Moreover, the 10-point overall category is a huge fudge factor. That's the difference between flying off the shelves and being pretty much unmarketable.
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#41 Post by M.Kaplan » July 7th, 2017, 2:52 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
Ken Strauss wrote:Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
Yeah, I hate to be the one to break the news that there is no Santa Claus, but he doesn't actually do any of that math. He just picks a number. We know that because there were some magazine articles that had snapshots of his notebooks and there were no "50+5+15+20+10" calculations there. Just the scores.
I'm 99+ on that.
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#42 Post by c fu » July 7th, 2017, 2:55 pm

M.Kaplan wrote:
Keith Levenberg wrote:
Ken Strauss wrote:Parker's base is 50 points
General color and appearance can get up to 5 points
Aroma and bouquet can get up to 15 points
Flavor and finish up to 20 points...intensity,flavor,balance,cleanliness and depth and length
Finally overall quality level or potential for further evolution and improvement...aging.. up to 10 points.


Yes anyone can use this as a guide. I think many reviewers just pick a #.
I didnt look for a link. I just repeated what Parker says in the beginning of his book I bought many years ago.
Yeah, I hate to be the one to break the news that there is no Santa Claus, but he doesn't actually do any of that math. He just picks a number. We know that because there were some magazine articles that had snapshots of his notebooks and there were no "50+5+15+20+10" calculations there. Just the scores.
I'm 99+ on that.
- James Suckling
what formula was that based on
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M.Kaplan
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Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

#43 Post by M.Kaplan » July 7th, 2017, 3:08 pm

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Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

#44 Post by lleichtman » July 7th, 2017, 3:33 pm

Mel Knox wrote:I have never understand what is so special about a 100 pt system vs a 20 p-t system...unless you want to go to 1000 pts!!

Hasn t Parker said that scores just come to him in his head??

It isn t just in Europe where nobody can afford to live. There was a story in the paper here about a school teacher who was homeless. I just saw an ad for what we used to call a townhouse ( a two story duplex) in what used to be ghetto for 1.8 million.

Airlines miles?? What a joke...impossible to use in a meaningful way, unless you are one of those guys who really flies a lot.

By the way, there is/was a three star restaurant in London called Bibendum....who is also the icon of Michelin
I just use a modified ABC system that works well for me. I'm not trying to get anything published.
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Tire Company buys 40% of The Wine Advocate

#45 Post by RichardFlack » July 17th, 2017, 2:08 pm

I'm not a subscriber but didn't WA site say something about funded and financed solely by subscribers? Does it still? Has it changed that

My questions would be, what does WA need finance for? It's pretty well up and running now, isn't it?
And, what is Michelins strategy here? Rating wineries?

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