TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#51 Post by Greg K » July 15th, 2019, 8:09 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 1:56 am
Nothing wrong with being controversial - that´s the sign of a strong character ...
Or of an *sshole. YMMV
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#52 Post by Mike Grammer » July 15th, 2019, 9:35 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 5:35 am
2001 is not my fav. vintage in Cote-Rotie ... quite rustic from the start, even sauvage ... most are now milder but lacking sweetness ... even Jamet is a bit mean ...
Rostaing's Cote blonde and La Landonne are clearly a step or two above the regular CR (now Ampodium),
Indeed, and one of two reference points for Rostaing from memory. From 2012 in Atlanta, a 2001 La La which I was able to snap off a shelf in Calgary for about USD $85 a year or two earlier:

"2001 Rene Rostaing Cote Rotie La Landonne

True cote-rotie nose, full of roast meats, dark fruit and rosemary. For me, chickoree and espresso scents too. However, le gout suggests that this might need 2-3 years, very elegant with berry and damson plum, a touch of crispy bacon and delectable roasted herbs, thyme in particular, but still a bit rough with tannins. It does smooth out a bit with time in the glass. interestingly, my first aerating taste earlier in the afternoon (opened but capped) might have been the best today. A very good wine."


A 1999 regular cuvee Cote Rotie tasted in 2014 was lovely.

Maluhia,

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#53 Post by Gerhard P. » July 15th, 2019, 11:45 am

John Morris wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 7:52 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 1:56 am
Obviously some guys cannot accept different opinions ... or deeper experience on a certain matter ...
He said modestly.
Gerhard P. wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 1:56 am
I´m still curious which Cote Rotie producers are better than Rostaing ... constantly over the last 40 years ...
As you know, and as the other John said, this is a silly and tendentious question since so many smaller producers have retired over that period. I will say that I've had many Guigal B&Bs over that span that were far more interesting to me than Rostaing's basic bottling.
I agree that Guigals B&B have been good to fine before 1995, e.g. 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1990, 1991 were very enjoyable and interesting.
However since introduction of the Chateau D´Ampuis cuvee in 1995 which is made from the 6 (now 7) remaining own vineyards the B&B has lost a lot of intensity and depth ...
Mike Grammer wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 9:35 am

A 1999 regular cuvee Cote Rotie tasted in 2014 was lovely.

Maluhia,

Mike
Rostaings 1999s are still lovely ... ALL ...
the Cote blonde is to die for ....!
(sadly down to one bottle)
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#54 Post by Ramon C » July 15th, 2019, 5:16 pm

Greg K wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 8:09 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 1:56 am
Nothing wrong with being controversial - that´s the sign of a strong character ...
Or of an *sshole. YMMV
+++++1
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#55 Post by Ramon C » July 15th, 2019, 5:37 pm

John S wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 4:47 am
I am not looking to join a fight. .... In fact I prefer Ogier to Rostaing but certainly that is not a popular view either as Ogier is on the more modern side. I find Jamet generally better than either of those for my palate.
Agree with your assessment and with your caveat that nobody here's looking for a fight, excepting those that are obviously less-than-modest, the always confrontational *$$wipe who challenges those with differing opinions, while metaphorically sitting on a high horse or standing on a soapbox, and whose diatribes have become tiresome.

Just 2 weeks ago, we had a 1999 Ogier CR and a 2001 Ogier Les Embruns that were, imho, very good and made forgettable the already unmemorable same vintages Rostaing that I've had before, in addition to the early 90s that I've had. I'm not into Rostaing and get it that Rostaing may be liked by some here, I don't fault them for it, nor do I challenge their scope experiences with the subjects.

Btw, agree 150% that , in general, Jamet is in another stratosphere that's above either Ogier or Rostaing.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#56 Post by Matt Mauldin » July 15th, 2019, 6:44 pm

I don't think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#57 Post by Greg K » July 15th, 2019, 7:58 pm

Matt Mauldin wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 6:44 pm
I don't think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.
For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#58 Post by Matt Mauldin » July 15th, 2019, 8:44 pm

Greg K wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 7:58 pm
Matt Mauldin wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 6:44 pm
I don't think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.
For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.
Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#59 Post by Greg K » July 15th, 2019, 11:40 pm

Matt Mauldin wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 8:44 pm
Greg K wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 7:58 pm
Matt Mauldin wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 6:44 pm
I don't think anything has happened on this thread to warrant anyone being called an *sshole. JM2C.
For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.
Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.
No worries, and no apologies necessary.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#60 Post by Gerhard P. » July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am

Greg K wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 11:40 pm
Matt Mauldin wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 8:44 pm
Greg K wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 7:58 pm


For the record, that reference was mine, and it was not to anyone on this thread, but rather to the point that a controversial person must be a strong character.
Point taken, and with an apology. Looking back over - I misinterpreted your comment and subsequently the comment on your comment.
No worries, and no apologies necessary.
I´m not so sure ... if it was not anyone on this thread I strongly hope it was not against René Rostaing (whom I called a strong character) ...
he is a total gentleman, a real noble person and extremely nice and friendly guy ...

However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for ... I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions ... but it seems that only postings like "great", "agree with", +1 etc. are welcome ... different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments ...

However, I heavily agree with naming Ogier as a top producer, and my shortlist of the 4-5 best would be (in any sequence):
Guigal, Jamet, Rostaing, Ogier .... and ....?
5th?
Levet? Possibly.

So which of the following producers would you name to be better than Rostaing? (not based on a single wine but for the results of many vintages ...):

Jasmin, Barge, Burgaud, Gerin, Clusel-Roch, Champet, Duclaux, Bernard, Bonnefond, Stephan, Gerard, Gangloff, Pichon, Monteillet, Gaillard, Lafoy&Gasse, Cuilleron, Vernay, Villard ... or better Chapoutier, Delas, Vidal-Fleury ... ?
Any more?
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#61 Post by John S » July 16th, 2019, 10:50 am

For me, and I think I said this before, I'd take high end Guigals, Jamet, and Ogier over Rostaing. I also quite like, at times, Gallet (the Henri made wines so pre 2002 or something) and maybe even Jasmin but they are much more spotty quality wise but distinctive. I just don't find the Rostaing wines that interesting to me but they are good. I am sure there are many others who would not like the older Gallet wines at all.

There is a wealth of info here so I hope it can be civil. I did not read any comment as being directed at Rene nor you but things can go that way.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#62 Post by John Morris » July 16th, 2019, 10:54 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am
However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for ... I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions ... but it seems that only postings like "great", "agree with", +1 etc. are welcome ... different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments ...
Gerhard -- Your knowledge is a huge asset here, and disagreement is good when it's civil, which it is most of the time here. But your posts sometimes sound rather arrogant (e.g., when you say things that amount to "other people don't know as much as I do"). I think that's why people react the way they do to your posts sometime.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#63 Post by Robert Sand » July 16th, 2019, 11:03 am

John S wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:50 am
For me, and I think I said this before, I'd take high end Guigals, Jamet, and Ogier over Rostaing. I also quite like, at times, Gallet
If I read it correctly Guigal, Jamet, Ogier and Rostaing were exactly the first four named --- and Gerhard said >in any order< .

Gallet is missing in the list indeed and I liked especially the 1991, the 1992 was also good but later vintages showed very high acidity and not enough fruit for my taste, and the 2000 was quite thin. 2005 was better but I have not tasted later vintages.

I would not put any above Rostaing, but I liked some wines from Clusel Roch and Gangloff, and I had an older vintage by Jasmin which was outstanding.

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#64 Post by Greg K » July 16th, 2019, 11:05 am

Robert Sand wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 11:03 am
I would not put any above Rostaing, but I liked some wines from Clusel Roch and Gangloff, and I had an older vintage by Jasmin which was outstanding.
I don't have much experience with Gallet, but I've had some really nice older bottles of both Clusel Roch and Jasmin.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#65 Post by Alan Rath » July 16th, 2019, 11:05 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am
However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for ... I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions ... but it seems that only postings like "great", "agree with", +1 etc. are welcome ... different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments ...

However, I heavily agree with naming Ogier as a top producer, and my shortlist of the 4-5 best would be (in any sequence):
Guigal, Jamet, Rostaing, Ogier .... and ....?
5th?
Levet? Possibly.

So which of the following producers would you name to be better than Rostaing? (not based on a single wine but for the results of many vintages ...):

Jasmin, Barge, Burgaud, Gerin, Clusel-Roch, Champet, Duclaux, Bernard, Bonnefond, Stephan, Gerard, Gangloff, Pichon, Monteillet, Gaillard, Lafoy&Gasse, Cuilleron, Vernay, Villard ... or better Chapoutier, Delas, Vidal-Fleury ... ?
Any more?
Cordial disagreement is fine, even welcome. Better than Rostaing? Some of your list I have no experience with. Only one for sure I'd put ahead is Clusel-Roch. Many I don't care for (Jasmin, Gerin, Stephan, Gangloff, Chapoutier, Guigal). Vernay is top tier for Condrieu, not so much for reds IMO. I haven't had recent Ogier, if he has dialed back the oak there is great potential. I dislike Gangloff in particular due to his use of oak.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#66 Post by Greg K » July 16th, 2019, 11:06 am

Alan Rath wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 11:05 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am
However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for ... I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions ... but it seems that only postings like "great", "agree with", +1 etc. are welcome ... different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments ...

However, I heavily agree with naming Ogier as a top producer, and my shortlist of the 4-5 best would be (in any sequence):
Guigal, Jamet, Rostaing, Ogier .... and ....?
5th?
Levet? Possibly.

So which of the following producers would you name to be better than Rostaing? (not based on a single wine but for the results of many vintages ...):

Jasmin, Barge, Burgaud, Gerin, Clusel-Roch, Champet, Duclaux, Bernard, Bonnefond, Stephan, Gerard, Gangloff, Pichon, Monteillet, Gaillard, Lafoy&Gasse, Cuilleron, Vernay, Villard ... or better Chapoutier, Delas, Vidal-Fleury ... ?
Any more?
Cordial disagreement is fine, even welcome. Better than Rostaing? Some of your list I have no experience with. Only one for sure I'd put ahead is Clusel-Roch. Many I don't care for (Jasmin, Gerin, Stephan, Gangloff, Chapoutier, Guigal). Vernay is top tier for Condrieu, not so much for reds IMO. I haven't had recent Ogier, if he has dialed back the oak there is great potential. I dislike Gangloff in particular due to his use of oak.
I had a recent Ogier at a tasting and there was noticeably less oak, though it was not the Belle Hellene bottling.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#67 Post by John S » July 16th, 2019, 11:11 am

I think what John says above is right. Gerhard comes across like that in the above conversation. But I try to just assume it may be a language or cultural thing and respond that is not the way it was intended.

Onto wine, above I noticed that Gerhard says the '99 Rostaing Cote Blonde is to die for. I get that. I have had that wine almost 10 times and never has it left me impressed other than being simply fine or good. I've tried it on both sides of the pond with the same result. I've tasted enough CR to have a decent grasp of things and know what i like after being to many Marche Aux Vins and local visits with many of the producers you mention above. I don't say that to show off and it does not make my opinion particularly valid or correct. But I do have a view and preferences that other tasters will not agree with. And that is part of what makes wine fun.
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#68 Post by Gerhard P. » July 16th, 2019, 1:38 pm

John Morris wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:54 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am
However, I´m more and more confused what this forum is actually for ... I though for sharing informations about wine, giving comments and for discussions ... but it seems that only postings like "great", "agree with", +1 etc. are welcome ... different opinions or additional infos about producers who seem to be not the darlings of the forum quickly get pejorative comments ...
Gerhard -- Your knowledge is a huge asset here, and disagreement is good when it's civil, which it is most of the time here. But your posts sometimes sound rather arrogant (e.g., when you say things that amount to "other people don't know as much as I do"). I think that's why people react the way they do to your posts sometime.
John,
I got it.
However - it is never intended.
Whenever I've got certain experience or knowledge - how to bring it across ... (?)
Maybe also an issue of language ...

I admit Gallet is definitely missing in my list ...
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#69 Post by Jayson Cohen » July 16th, 2019, 4:21 pm

Benetiere

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#70 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 16th, 2019, 5:17 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 4:21 pm
Benetiere
Shhhhh

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#71 Post by David_K » July 16th, 2019, 6:40 pm

Jayson Cohen wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 4:21 pm
Benetiere
Except I heard he quit making Cote-Rotie, and now makes only Vin de France. [snort.gif]
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#72 Post by Zachary Ross » July 17th, 2019, 4:03 am

In my experience, I have preferred Gallet, Benetiere, Barge, Levet, and Clusel-Roch to Rostaing. I have more Barge in my cellar than any other producer, though I wish I could say that about Benetiere!
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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#73 Post by Robert Sand » July 17th, 2019, 8:09 am

Zachary Ross wrote:
July 17th, 2019, 4:03 am
In my experience, I have preferred Gallet, Benetiere, Barge, Levet, and Clusel-Roch to Rostaing. I have more Barge in my cellar than any other producer, though I wish I could say that about Benetiere!
Barge, Levet, Clusel-Roch and also Gallet are favoring a more rustic style if I may say so - very different from Rostaing who always looks for elegance.
I have tasted a few really good bottles from Clusel-Roch, especially les Grandes Places, but some others were quite astringent and lacking charme.
Sorry that I never had any Benetiere. Never seen iot in Germany or France.

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Re: TN: Dom. Rostaing - 2001 Cote Rotie - Cuvee Classique

#74 Post by Zachary Ross » July 17th, 2019, 10:26 am

Robert Sand wrote:
July 17th, 2019, 8:09 am
Zachary Ross wrote:
July 17th, 2019, 4:03 am
In my experience, I have preferred Gallet, Benetiere, Barge, Levet, and Clusel-Roch to Rostaing. I have more Barge in my cellar than any other producer, though I wish I could say that about Benetiere!
Barge, Levet, Clusel-Roch and also Gallet are favoring a more rustic style if I may say so - very different from Rostaing who always looks for elegance.
I have tasted a few really good bottles from Clusel-Roch, especially les Grandes Places, but some others were quite astringent and lacking charme.
Sorry that I never had any Benetiere. Never seen iot in Germany or France.

I would agree with you on the wilder, more rustic side of these wines, and I suspect it's that quality that I and others in this thread find most appealing about them and may find lacking in Rostaing. (Though I would quibble a little in that [Gilles] Barge is rather elegant compared with the others. Pierre is another story.)
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