I have had many occasions with others including 3 wine groups where I find a wine flawed e.g. corked, Brett, oxidised, VA and have the option to share this discovery or hold it back. For me over the past few years, I tend to hold it back unless asked with a few exceptions.
Here are a few such occasions and I wonder what others would do:
Recently, my wife and I went to a friend`s luncheon in their home along with 8 other guests. The friend has a decent wine cellar and some of the friends had at least a cursory knowledge about wine. The champagne that was served to all when they first arrived was clearly oxidised. It appeared that no-one had an issue with it. Do you discreetly share this with the host? [I did not.]
I have 2 serious wine groups and one sort of serious. We taste many wines on each occasion and many share their experience with a particular wine although they are not required to do so. If you find a flawed wine, do you state such or hold back and allow others to express it? [In all 3 groups, I feel comfortable stating the flaw and do in most instances. Also, I am careful not to diss the person who brought the wine, but the bad bottle itself.]
I order a wine in a restaurant and it is flawed Do you inform the server of such? [I do in every instance}
An hour after posting this thread, I thought of another time this question has come into play with me and that has to do with a wine purchase from a shop not in my vicinity such as an online purchase. [ If in my locality, I usually call it to the attention of the shop; however, it`s rare for me to do so with out of town, out of state sources]
If someone serves me a flawed wine from their cellar and they dont say anything then I dont either.
If Im in a tasting group enviroment then I will comment on the wine.
If I order a bottle of wine and it comes to the table faulty I send it back
Depends on the group. In my more “serious” groups, everybody would have a ten or twelve glasses in front of them and they’d go through and rate the wines without discussing them, so as not to influence anyone else. It was assumed that everyone was good enough to tell a flawed wine.
After the scoring, we’d discuss.
In less serious groups, where it’s just a bunch of people getting together to drink wine, I’d take the measure of the crowd. If they seemed like they knew what I was saying, I’d mention that a wine was flawed. Otherwise I’d just let them enjoy the wine and go on to another one. Kind of the same thing you do if someone serves you the Prisoner. You gotta figure out if they’re serious or not. If they are, you don’t insult them. If they aren’t sure, you can offer your sage advice.
And at a restaurant, if we bought it from the establishment, I’d announce it right away.
I have had many occasions with others including 3 wine groups where I find a wine flawed e.g. corked, Brett, oxidised, VA and have the option to share this discovery or hold it back. For me over the past few years, I tend to hold it back unless asked with a few exceptions.
Here are a few such occasions and I wonder what others would do:
Recently, my wife and I went to a friend`s luncheon in their home along with 8 other guests. The friend has a decent wine cellar and some of the friends had at least a cursory knowledge about wine. The champagne that was served to all when they first arrived was clearly oxidised. It appeared that no-one had an issue with it. Do you discreetly share this with the host? [I did not.]
I say nothing, it is not a formal wine tasting and I do not wish to tarnish a lovely experience for others. (Maybe I would say something like, “I bet François Audouze would love this!”)
I have 2 serious wine groups and one sort of serious. We taste many wines on each occasion and many share their experience with a particular wine although they are not required to do so. If you find a flawed wine, do you state such or hold back and allow others to express it? [In all 3 groups, I feel comfortable stating the flaw and do in most instances. Also, I am careful not to diss the person who brought the wine, but the bad bottle itself.]
I would express my opinion, that’s part of the purpose of the group! I would only diss the person who brought it if it were Mike Dildine or Alex S.
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I order a wine in a restaurant and it is flawed Do you inform the server of such? [I do in every instance}
I absolutely point it out…I am a customer in this instance.
For those who have already read and/of responded, I just added a 4th scenario that has to do with purchasing wines from a local shop vs. online/ away shop.
My wife and I are pretty sensitive to corked wine- If served a corked wine by a friend- I usually start with some leading questions… i.e. “does this smell a bit musty to you too?” or “I am getting a bit of a wet cardboard smell, do you get that too?”… Then I double check with my wife to make sure I am not crazy and say- “I think this one might be corked/damaged/etc.” often with a description of what that means, how it happened, etc.
At a restaurant, I am somewhat direct and tell them the wine is corked and I’d like another bottle. At wine-shops or professional tastings, I tell them right away and suggest they open a new bottle as the customers/tasters are unlikely to purchase after tasting that one.
Corked bottles are about the only thing I’d point out at
a tasting. Usually, there are others to back up the claim.
Making use of an “I” statement vs a you statement helps
I think this wine is corked vs your bottle is corked!
I’ve have pointed out corked bottles at plenty of commercial tasting where the pourer is slammed and not trying each bottle as they are opened. The look on their face when told that the 3/4’s empty bottle is corked is so sad!
In our formal blind tasting group we wait til everyone has voted to discuss the wines.
In a restaurant, I’d definitely send it back.
Other situations I’m more inclined to make an educational moment out of it. Depends, of course, but a low-key matter of fact point can be made without seeming judgemental or making a big deal. Some people can’t detect TCA and others don’t mind a little, for example, so no need to make someone feel “wrong” about liking a flawed wine.
I’ve encountered corked wines a few times at commercial tastings, where I’ll discretely let the winemaker/pourer know so they can pull the wine without drawing attention.
I’ve returned corked wines and heat-spoiled wines to local shops. I’d probably chalk it up to bad luck from a long range shop. I’ve returned wines to wineries when they shipped to Texas in heat against my wishes.
At a party, I would not point out a flawed wine, especially not one poured to non-wine geeks and enjoyed by others.
At a wine tasting event with fellow tasters, I would and have. I’ve benefited from having it pointed out early in my journey, and some are more sensitive or identify a flaw earlier. A fellow attorney and I got into a bit of an argument with Harry Karis over a corked CDP at an intimate tasting. My friend noticed the faint corkiness, as did I. Not everyone agreed, and Karis tried to argue us down because, after all, HE knows all about CDP and HE would be the ultimate arbiter of corked v. not corked. Well, after the event the somms present, who were not involved in the tasting, unanimously agreed: corked. We similarly discussed the effects of Brett on those old CDPs, which I found worthwhile and educational.
I’ve sent things back at a restaurant. Let’s face realities. If we’re being gouged on wine prices, the wine needs to be in appropriate condition.
Wes, likewise at winery specific tastings or regional event pours. It’s helpful to those folks to let them know. They don’t want to be selling off-wines to potential customers, or to proudly share flawed wines to knowing critics. There is a tactful and discreet way to do that.
Doesn’t this somewhat depend upon the definition of ‘fault’? Not to stir things up too much, but many don’t consider higher levels of VA or any level of Brett a fault whatsoever . . .
I have to add, that I have told people that the wine is corked, explained what that means, how it happens, etc… and then have then shrug and drink it anyway.
My worst restaurant experience was at Taillevant in Paris- A clearly heat damaged bottle of CdP that I had to argue with the somm for 10 minutes to get replaced. Her arrogance was palpable.
Once at a winery I noticed that a wine they were pouring was corked, and when I politely mentioned it to the tasting room employee they tasted it, looked at me like I was an asshole, and proudly proclaimed that that was how it’s supposed to taste and continued pouring it to other customers. I tasted the same wine, same vintage a few months later, and lo and behold, it tasted completely different (i.e. not corked!).
I’m also starting to get a reputation as the guy you give your brett-addled wine to, as I really like it, Lauren not so much.
I always mention a fault in a wine I’m drinking ,whether I brought it or someone else did .( in as diplomatic a fashion as possible when its brought by someone else , incl friends or professionals ) . We should distinguish between faults that yield an undrinkable wine (imo ) or just a wine that’s drinkable, but not as good as it should be. I would still comment on it, but would probably be a little slower about it. Scott- one of the reasons I got into wine 30 years ago, was a sommelier that told me a faulty bottle was " as its supposed to taste " and I decided I didn’t want that to happen again. Glad you stood your ground, I assume this was recently after Mr Vrinat had passed away. Such a shame when they can so easily mar a great experience.
At any wine nerd ‘official tasting,’ I don’t mention anything about flaws until the ‘share your thoughts’ portion of the show after people have been able to form their own opinion.
I also appreciate the socratic approach.
I used to be a member of a tasting group in San Francisco and we had a member who would habitually do two asswipey things…
Shout out which “number” wine he caught any flaws in while we were still working through a flight, and…
Bring a bottle for the sharing bottles portion, but would only share with a sub-clique. (We’d only have a dozen people at many tastings.)
