Which Chenin Blanc are you drinking?

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Markus S
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Which Chenin Blanc are you drinking?

#51 Post by Markus S » June 20th, 2017, 8:11 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:None. I really wonder why I ever buy the stuff. I have about 15-20 bottles of Chenin, and zero interest in drinking it.
I say: ANATHEMA!

I can't believe I'm hearing this out of "Mr. Riesling" lips. Chenin Blanc is simply France's answer to riesling, which, being a German grape, cannot be imbided by French peoples.
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#52 Post by Brad Kane » June 20th, 2017, 8:20 am

Markus S wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:None. I really wonder why I ever buy the stuff. I have about 15-20 bottles of Chenin, and zero interest in drinking it.
I say: ANATHEMA!

I can't believe I'm hearing this out of "Mr. Riesling" lips. Chenin Blanc is simply France's answer to riesling, which, being a German grape, cannot be imbided by French peoples.
It's ok. David has a history of being on the wrong side of every issue. [snort.gif]
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#53 Post by Markus S » June 20th, 2017, 8:45 am

Brad Kane wrote:
Markus S wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:None. I really wonder why I ever buy the stuff. I have about 15-20 bottles of Chenin, and zero interest in drinking it.
I say: ANATHEMA!

I can't believe I'm hearing this out of "Mr. Riesling" lips. Chenin Blanc is simply France's answer to riesling, which, being a German grape, cannot be imbided by French peoples.
It's ok. David has a history of being on the wrong side of every issue. [snort.gif]
Well we know about the savignon blanc issue... [wink.gif]
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#54 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 20th, 2017, 9:27 am

Brad doesn't like dry Riesling, I don't like Sauvignon Blanc.

I know who is more wrong, and it's not me.

Chenin does not excite my palate, except under rare circumstances (e.g. very old Huet). I don't ever reach for it, so no reason to cellar it.
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#55 Post by Brad Kane » June 20th, 2017, 9:42 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:Brad doesn't like dry Riesling, I don't like Sauvignon Blanc.

I know who is more wrong, and it's not me.

Chenin does not excite my palate, except under rare circumstances (e.g. very old Huet). I don't ever reach for it, so no reason to cellar it.
Don't forget, you have no problems with players using PEDs, too! [smileyvault-ban.gif]

Oh and I do like dry to dryish Riesling, just not from Germany.
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#56 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 20th, 2017, 9:57 am

Back on ignore you go.
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#57 Post by Paul McCourt » June 20th, 2017, 9:57 am

I see David's view. I love Huet. Love it. But a good portion of friends frequently are not excited in chenins that I serve them.

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#58 Post by Brad Kane » June 20th, 2017, 10:39 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:Back on ignore you go.
Hooray! What a thin-skinned troll you are and I'm being kind and showing restraint. Since the WLDG days, too!
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#59 Post by James Zadvorny » June 20th, 2017, 1:05 pm

Francois Piñon makes really nice wines. The Trois Argiles is a great go-to for around $20.

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#60 Post by Jim Brennan » June 20th, 2017, 1:21 pm

I'm not sure I can even comprehend the position that someone who loves Riesling doesn't like Chenin.

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#61 Post by Jay Miller » June 20th, 2017, 1:32 pm

Jim Brennan wrote:I'm not sure I can even comprehend the position that someone who loves Riesling doesn't like Chenin.
I can. While they fill the same ecological niche (acidic whites that manage rs well and are great with food) the flavor profiles are very different. Personally I like both but I don't think I'd ever confuse one for the other.
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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#62 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 20th, 2017, 2:05 pm

And I don't "dislike" Chenin. I just prefer Riesling and a couple of other grapes by such a wide margin that it's not worth pursuing the grape anymore.

Somebody wants to pour me a glass, I will happily slurp it down.
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#63 Post by maureen nelson » June 20th, 2017, 5:40 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:And I don't "dislike" Chenin. I just prefer Riesling and a couple of other grapes by such a wide margin that it's not worth pursuing the grape anymore.

Somebody wants to pour me a glass, I will happily slurp it down.
I get this. I don't drink all that frequently so when I do, I want it to be stuff I love. That said, I do love good chenin. But as Jay said it does taste very different than riesling.

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#64 Post by David_K » June 20th, 2017, 5:44 pm

  • 2014 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Clos du Breuil - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire (6/20/2017)
    This has lost some of the initial wow-factor and electricity it had on release, and no secondary elements have replaced it as of yet. I'd say this is in a bit of an awkward spot; nothing is out of balance, but I'm betting it will be better a year or two from now.
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#65 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 20th, 2017, 6:20 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:And I don't "dislike" Chenin. I just prefer Riesling and a couple of other grapes by such a wide margin that it's not worth pursuing the grape anymore.

Somebody wants to pour me a glass, I will happily slurp it down.
I get this. I don't drink all that frequently so when I do, I want it to be stuff I love. That said, I do love good chenin. But as Jay said it does taste very different than riesling.
I had a perfect opportunity for some demi-sec or sweeter Chenin tonight with a somewhat spicy Thai curry. I went with Spätlese (2006 Diel) that was amazing.
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#66 Post by Jim Brennan » June 20th, 2017, 6:27 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
Jim Brennan wrote:I'm not sure I can even comprehend the position that someone who loves Riesling doesn't like Chenin.
I can. While they fill the same ecological niche (acidic whites that manage rs well and are great with food) the flavor profiles are very different. Personally I like both but I don't think I'd ever confuse one for the other.
They are so similar in every way but flavor (although Riesling handles its alcohol better), and sometimes flavor (I've had some young Sec Chenins with oodles of green apple notes), that I still can't imagine this. :)

But then again, I tend to prefer wines based on textural and structural elements, and I'm pretty malleable when it comes to the flavor itself.

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#67 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 20th, 2017, 6:36 pm

I find Riesling and Chenin to be radically different grapes.
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#68 Post by Rich Brown » June 20th, 2017, 9:48 pm

Maybe someone should start a Riesling vs. Chenin discussion thread??

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#69 Post by Markus S » June 21st, 2017, 6:16 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:I find Riesling and Chenin to be radically different grapes.
I don't. They are white, can range the sweetness scale from honeyed richness to bone dry, and can accompany similar foods. I find they can fill similar niches even if being different texturally (chenin can be broader while riesling is more easily reined in).
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#70 Post by Rich Brown » June 24th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Went to a small hole in the wall bar/concert venue downtown Phx last night and asked the bartender what wine they had, fully expecting her to say something like "we have a red and a white". Instead she hands me a menu with a diverse and well thought out list with literally the best pricing I've seen in a bar/restaurant setting.

Ended up snagging a bottle of 2014 Huet, La Haut-Lieu Sec for $38 that was killer! Young but full of wooly orchid fruit and bruised apple with a nice hint of honeycomb on the long finish. I was a very happy camper.

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#71 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 24th, 2017, 5:35 pm

I opened one of my bottles of Chidaine on Thursday. Corked.

It was probably offended.
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#72 Post by maureen nelson » June 24th, 2017, 5:53 pm

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:I opened one of my bottles of Chidaine on Thursday. Corked.

It was probably offended.
Ha! Karma is a bitch.

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#73 Post by Dennis Atick » June 24th, 2017, 6:09 pm

James Zadvorny wrote:Francois Piñon makes really nice wines. The Trois Argiles is a great go-to for around $20.
Drinking the 2014 Trois Argiles tonight. Lovely wine. Hadn't opened one since last summer, and this one is just as pleasing. Rocking Chenin.
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#74 Post by Eric Sch » June 24th, 2017, 6:30 pm

With all the heat in Portland we opened some whites last night. After a 2001 Selbach Zeltinger Sclossberg Spätlese which was amazing, the Chenin had big shoes to fill. Unfortunately the 97 Baumard Savenieres was fatally oxidized, so I pulled a 2009 Foreau demi-sec. It was a little out of balance, missing a bit of backbone, but otherwise presented really nicely. Will finish it up later tonight, but I've generally thought the Foreau to be reliable if not top tier.
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#75 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 24th, 2017, 6:39 pm

maureen nelson wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:I opened one of my bottles of Chidaine on Thursday. Corked.

It was probably offended.
Ha! Karma is a bitch.
Not really. I replaced it with a Riesling!
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#76 Post by Tim York » June 25th, 2017, 10:46 pm

Alongside Riesling (from virtually anywhere), Chenin (from the Loire basin) is my favourite white grape.

The privilege and pleasure of the company of Rahsaan Maxwell and his family was a reason to open two good ones last Saturday.

With turbot in a beurre blanc sauce,

1996 Nicolas Joly Clos de la Coulée de Serrant - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennières-Coulée de Serrant (6/24/2017)
In my limited experience, Coulée de Serrant is an uneven performer but this bottle of 1996 arguably justified the wine's reputation of being the summit of dry white Chenin. Opened five hours in advance and served not very cool, it showed quite deep colour, an expressive nose and medium+ body. The aromas and flavours were complex and seamless and included white and exotic fruit, honey, wax, discreet minerals and, though not bone dry, it was balanced by a long backbone of lively saline acidity. The whole thing exuded class. Excellent.
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With assorted cheeses followed by a strawberry based dessert,

2008 Foreau Domaine du Clos Naudin Vouvray Demi-Sec - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray (6/24/2017)
This accompanied assorted cheeses. IMO it was hardly less delicious than the preceding Coulée de Serrant. Slightly sweeter, rounder and fuller in body with a marked mango component and not quite so seamless given its relative youth, it otherwise showed quite similar flavours and aromas of white fruit, honey, wax, discreet minerals and a long backbone of lively saline acidity. Very good.

PS: This bottle of demi-sec was labelled Perruches for the Belgian market.
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#77 Post by Gary Schulte » June 26th, 2017, 5:01 am

Tim - As you noted, and others have said before, the N. Joly wines can be hit or miss. That is my experience as well. Because of that and the Joly pricing I no longer try looking for that special bottle of Joly chenin.

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#78 Post by Jay Miller » June 26th, 2017, 6:17 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
maureen nelson wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:I opened one of my bottles of Chidaine on Thursday. Corked.

It was probably offended.
Ha! Karma is a bitch.
Not really. I replaced it with a Riesling!
Thereby insuring that your next bottle of chenin will also be corked. When will they ever learn...
Ripe fruit isn't necessarily a flaw.

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#79 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » June 26th, 2017, 6:27 am

Effective inventory reduction.
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#80 Post by Don Brazelton » June 26th, 2017, 6:41 am

Man Vintners is a good QPR.

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#81 Post by Brad Kane » June 26th, 2017, 9:01 am

Tim, good stuff. That '08 Foreau Demi-Sec is dynamite, one of the best demis I've had. The '96 Coulee is an example of the vintage being better than what Joly could destroy with his at that time new oxidative style. Granted, there were a lot of concerns early about that wine when it started to show advanced early on, though I think at this point it was a lot of us not fully understanding the new style, which is something we'd also see in the '02 Closel Clos Papillon.

As for recent Chenin, I opened up a delicious bottle of '95 Domaine des Petits Quarts- Bonnezeaux yesterday with Jay Miller, Zach Ross, Seth Rosenberg and a visiting Salil. Just lovely. The sulfur that Dressner objected to when he used to bring them in, kept things in fine shape. [wink.gif]
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#82 Post by Russell Faulkner » June 26th, 2017, 9:21 am

2005 Joly Vieux Clos last night. Quite an extreme example but no more like Riesling than Port is, well other than optically.

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#83 Post by Mike Evans » June 26th, 2017, 9:22 am

Brad Kane wrote:Tim, good stuff. That '08 Foreau Demi-Sec is dynamite, one of the best demis I've had. The '96 Coulee is an example of the vintage being better than what Joly could destroy with his at that time new oxidative style. Granted, there were a lot of concerns early about that wine when it started to show advanced early on. Granted, I think it was at this point it was a lot of us not used to the new style, which is something we'd also see in the '02 Closel Clos Papillon.

As for recent Chenin, I opened up a delicious bottle of '95 Domaine des Petits Quarts- Bonnezeaux yesterday with Jay Miller, Zach Ross, Seth Rosenberg and a visiting Salil. Just lovely. The sulfur that Dressner objected to when he used to bring them in, kept things in fine shape. [wink.gif]
The 1997 Godineau Bonnezeaux a couple weeks ago was singing as well.

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#84 Post by jcoley3 » June 26th, 2017, 9:35 am

Does anyone drink sparkling Chenin here?

Rocher des Violettes out of Montlouis (still Chenins as well). Huet regular and reserve. Pinon's Vouvray Petillant. Foreau Reserve (just had 07 a couple of days ago). All killer and the only one that's expensive is Foreau, and I can live with it.
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#85 Post by Brad Kane » June 26th, 2017, 9:49 am

jcoley3 wrote:Does anyone drink sparkling Chenin here?

Rocher des Violettes out of Montlouis (still Chenins as well). Huet regular and reserve. Pinon's Vouvray Petillant. Foreau Reserve (just had 07 a couple of days ago). All killer and the only one that's expensive is Foreau, and I can live with it.
Had the '95 Huet Petillant two weeks ago that was just tremendoous. It's always been my favorite vintage, even better than the terrific '64, though a number of bottles over the years haven't shown that well. This bottle was incredibly fresh and long.
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#86 Post by Gary Schulte » June 26th, 2017, 11:59 am

I've tried the Champalou, Foreau, Chidaine, & Huet sparklers and have not been impressed compared to their still wines and other sparkling/fizzy wines. Will keep trying but at some point I might just let other grape sparklers grab my attention and dollars.

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#87 Post by Claus Jeppesen » June 26th, 2017, 12:41 pm

2010 X. Weisskopf, Montlouis "Negrette"
The most bonedry and aciddriven expression of Chenin I know. A special wine
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#88 Post by jcoley3 » June 26th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Claus Jeppesen wrote:2010 X. Weisskopf, Montlouis "Negrette"
The most bonedry and aciddriven expression of Chenin I know. A special wine
Claus,

Have you tried the 'Touche Mitaine' bottling? It's not as expensive, but if you love 'Negrette', the Weisskopf/Rocher des Violettes 'Touche Mitaine' wine should also be on your list!
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#89 Post by Kirk.Grant » June 26th, 2017, 2:00 pm

Love this producer...killer wines and fiercely unique.
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#90 Post by Gary Schulte » June 26th, 2017, 4:27 pm

I agree Kirk. There are wines throughout the Guiberteau portfolio that are at the very least very good and some are outstanding.

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#91 Post by Bill Perlee » June 27th, 2017, 8:22 am

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Thanks for the heads up on Paumanok on Long Island. I took my Mom and her friend out "East" for the weekend to celebrate her 90th birthday. We did a flight of whites which included Sav. Blanc, Chenin Blanc, Chardonnay, and Riesling. The girls are devoted Chardonnay drinkers but were surprised they favored the Riesling and Chenin Blanc. We brought 6 assorted bottles to the family bash that followed and they were drained quickly. As an aside these fine ladies played 18 holes of golf the previous day. The staff at the winery were accommodating and enjoyable to spend an afternoon with.

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#92 Post by Claus Jeppesen » June 27th, 2017, 12:32 pm

jcoley3 wrote:
Claus Jeppesen wrote:2010 X. Weisskopf, Montlouis "Negrette"
The most bonedry and aciddriven expression of Chenin I know. A special wine
Claus,

Have you tried the 'Touche Mitaine' bottling? It's not as expensive, but if you love 'Negrette', the Weisskopf/Rocher des Violettes 'Touche Mitaine' wine should also be on your list!
Thanks Jim
Will seek out. From younger vines I see. Only 35 years [cheers.gif]
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#93 Post by Dave McCloskey » June 27th, 2017, 1:27 pm

2014 DeMorgenzon Reserve Chenin Blanc. Outstanding!

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#94 Post by Sean Malloy » June 27th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Bill Perlee wrote: Thanks for the heads up on Paumanok on Long Island. I took my Mom and her friend out "East" for the weekend to celebrate her 90th birthday. We did a flight of whites which included Sav. Blanc, Chenin Blanc, Chardonnay, and Riesling. The girls are devoted Chardonnay drinkers but were surprised they favored the Riesling and Chenin Blanc. We brought 6 assorted bottles to the family bash that followed and they were drained quickly. As an aside these fine ladies played 18 holes of golf the previous day. The staff at the winery were accommodating and enjoyable to spend an afternoon with.
Wow...golf and wine tasting at 90. Awesome!

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#95 Post by David Cooper » June 27th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Brad Kane wrote:
D@vid Bu3ker wrote:Back on ignore you go.
Hooray! What a thin-skinned troll you are and I'm being kind and showing restraint. Since the WLDG days, too!
Is it OK to speak like this about other Berserkers? Their is a certain diminutive wine importer who I would love to blast. And it stems from a WLDG discussion. Might take the high road.

Terres Rouge Anjou Blanc Chapitre 2009

Clear light gold/medium yellow. Medium intense nose of dried apricots, honey, wax, pear and spice. Rich spicy honey, apple and caramelized pear flavours and a slightly sweet entrance but a very long dry finish.

92

I used to drink and buy a ton of Loire Chenin Blanc. Now I never buy any. This wine held on and improved so much I need to buy the current vintage. Of course previous bottles have not shown as well.

I would probably be quite upset with the oxidation if this was a Chablis but it seems to make Chenin more interesting.

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#96 Post by Brad Kane » June 27th, 2017, 7:36 pm

David, he's a troll in every sense and he's as annoying in person as he is online. I mean, his originally post was to take a dump in this thread.
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#97 Post by fred o. » June 28th, 2017, 9:31 am

Bill Perlee wrote:
image1.JPG
Thanks for the heads up on Paumanok on Long Island. I took my Mom and her friend out "East" for the weekend to celebrate her 90th birthday. We did a flight of whites which included Sav. Blanc, Chenin Blanc, Chardonnay, and Riesling. The girls are devoted Chardonnay drinkers but were surprised they favored the Riesling and Chenin Blanc. We brought 6 assorted bottles to the family bash that followed and they were drained quickly. As an aside these fine ladies played 18 holes of golf the previous day. The staff at the winery were accommodating and enjoyable to spend an afternoon with.
thanks for sharing this post/story and photo, really nice. Inspiring to see that people can stay active and enjoy wine into their 90s. And agreed on the riesling and chenin blanc at Paumanok being particularly nice
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fred o.
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Which Chenin Blanc are you drinking?

#98 Post by fred o. » June 28th, 2017, 9:41 am

Kirk.Grant wrote:Love this producer...killer wines and fiercely unique.

thanks for sharing this. I love this thread, learned a lot about Chenin Blanc producers that I hadn't known about, have to try Foreau and Guiberteau at some point.

someone upthread mentioned that they weren't a fan of sparkling chenins. I've only tried a few but I enjoyed them for the rich/sometimes creamy texture along with the honey flavors, and they've generally been great QPR as compared to Champagne. Really liked the 2016 Broc chenin blanc, which is a sparkling chenin from Solano. Also liked the 2014 Chidaine methode traditionelle brut, and the Jacky Blot (domaine de la taille aux loups) triple zero, learned about it from an older sparkling chenin thread, and it was really great.

I have a couple chenins from Cali that I want to try at some point; really enjoyed ones from Folk Machine (crazy QPR) and Sandlands, but also want to try ones from Roark and a skin-contact/orange wine chenin from Folk Machine.
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fred o.
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Which Chenin Blanc are you drinking?

#99 Post by fred o. » July 1st, 2017, 9:34 am

tried the Roark 2015 chenin, from Santa Ynez. Really nice, I thought it was well-balanced, rich textured but not cloying/had enough acidity to keep it refreshing especially chilled, and the flavors had good depth. "The other side of the table" (laughed when I saw this on some TNs/posts here, but true...) loved it, thought it was the best chenin that we've had recently. Will keep an eye out for future vintages and their other wines.
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Frank Murray III
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Which Chenin Blanc are you drinking?

#100 Post by Frank Murray III » July 1st, 2017, 10:52 am

Had a 2010 Chidaine Choisilles last night that was drinking superb. That followed the 2008 from a few weeks ago that blew my mind in how good it was. I saved a glass for this afternoon so I can retaste it and then I'll add a TN. What Chidaine is doing with Chenin is really special to me.
My WOTY candidates for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Eloquence Blanc de Blancs Extra Brut

My best wines of 2018:
2017 Kutch Falstaff Sonoma Coast PN
2012 Marguet Père et Fils Champagne La Grande Ruelle Ambonnay

Kindness matters.

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