Eto - a new way to preserve wine

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RickieM
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Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#1 Post by RickieM » June 7th, 2017, 7:59 am

This looks pretty darn interesting. It's a Kickstarter project for now, but take a look:

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Victor Hong
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#2 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2017, 8:13 am

One can achieve the same effect by dropping clean glass marbles into a wine bottle, until the remaining wine rises up the neck, to avoid oxidation.
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#3 Post by mattcitrang » June 7th, 2017, 8:19 am

Victor Hong wrote:One can achieve the same effect by dropping clean glass marbles into a wine bottle, until the remaining wine rises up the neck, to avoid oxidation.
.....and much easier to clean.

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#4 Post by NED VALOIS » June 7th, 2017, 8:22 am

A tad more eloquent than marbles , however.

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#5 Post by Victor Hong » June 7th, 2017, 8:23 am

I have a few loose marbles, to spare.
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#6 Post by TomC » June 7th, 2017, 9:15 am

Interesting design, and it certainly makes a lot of logical sense. It will be interesting to see how it fares once it is run through additional conditions, mainly quality over multiple accesses, and testing the claim of its ability over "weeks."

Although I do find it odd it wants you to decant the whole bottle into it to "open it up" but then also claims that 1 week later it is just as fresh as a "newly opened" bottle. Maybe they mean 'newly decanted'.

I'll wait for the diamond studded version.
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Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#7 Post by Jon U » June 7th, 2017, 9:28 am

I have tried to pour newly opened wine into smaller bottles. I filled them to the brim and sealed them with a screw cap. A day or two later, the wine did not taste very fresh to me. In my opinion, once exposed to air, all bets are off.
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#8 Post by John Morris » June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am

Jon U wrote:I have tried to pour newly opened wine into smaller bottles. I filled them to the brim and sealed them with a screw cap. A day or two later, the wine did not taste very fresh to me. In my opinion, once exposed to air, all bets are off.
There are endless threads on that topic. Some of us have had VERY good luck with this method. But I always refrigerate the wine. I don't know if you did, or just left it at room temperature. I think it also depends on the type of wine.
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#9 Post by larry schaffer » June 7th, 2017, 9:32 am

Jon U wrote:I have tried to pour newly opened wine into smaller bottles. I filled them to the brim and sealed them with a screw cap. A day or two later, the wine did not taste very fresh to me. In my opinion, once exposed to air, all bets are off.
To me, that is a very broad statement. I would agree that was older wines, the tendency is for these not to last very long after opening. With younger wines, though, I found that they can last days using this technique. Did you also put the bottles into the fridge?
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#10 Post by GregT » June 7th, 2017, 9:33 am

Jon - put them in the fridge. I assume you poured the wine into the smaller bottles on opening and not after it had been open for a while.

Some wines don't hold up but that's still the best way I've found to keep it for a few days. Other than a Coravin I guess.
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#11 Post by GregT » June 7th, 2017, 9:33 am

Wow. Two people posted while I was typing. Anyway, what they said!
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#12 Post by Jon U » June 7th, 2017, 4:19 pm

Yes, I always store the bottles in the fridge. These days, I top off with argon in the original bottle and store in fridge. That seems to work slightly better for me.
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#13 Post by James Billy » June 7th, 2017, 9:05 pm

Put the wine in the fridge for a few hours at least and only remove it for a few minutes at a time before returning It there. Most young red wines keep nearly a week doing this IMO. If the bottle is left out of the fridge for, say, an hour or more, its life is shortened. YMMV.

You can decant a little before you need it to have it at drinking temperature when required or warm with your hands or a warm, damp cloth.

Using the 375 bottle filled to the very top helps, too.

But temperature is key if you want to slow down the reactions.

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#14 Post by larry schaffer » June 9th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Jancis Robinson posted a very positive review today - for all of those who care about those things. . .
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#15 Post by Nick Ryan » June 9th, 2017, 7:39 pm

No point to this if you have to decant it... The oxygen has already made its way in. RIP.
http://sites.google.com/site/nryan4242/CellarPlannerV11.zip

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#16 Post by Dave English » June 10th, 2017, 12:25 am

No worse than when the winemaker racks a wine a few times?

http://www.newworldwinemaker.com/pdf/AW ... oxygen.pdf
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#17 Post by James Billy » June 10th, 2017, 3:13 am

But SO is added accordingly. How about letting in extra oxygen without SO additions?

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#18 Post by Dave English » June 10th, 2017, 3:38 am

James Billy wrote:But SO is added accordingly. How about letting in extra oxygen without SO additions?
Good point doh.

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Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#19 Post by Steve Slatcher » June 10th, 2017, 6:59 am

Nick Ryan wrote:No point to this if you have to decant it... The oxygen has already made its way in. RIP.
That's what I thought but the blind triangular tests performed for JR article (actually by Richard Hemming BTW) suggests otherwise
http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/ ... ing-device

Or does it depend on how long to leave exposed to air I the decanter? I thought it was the act of actually pours that dissolved the oxygen.

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#20 Post by Wes Barton » June 10th, 2017, 8:09 am

Jon U wrote:I have tried to pour newly opened wine into smaller bottles. I filled them to the brim and sealed them with a screw cap. A day or two later, the wine did not taste very fresh to me. In my opinion, once exposed to air, all bets are off.
If it's a delicate wine, a gentle siphoning method would help a lot. Sparging on top of that even more. An add-on devise to do this elegantly could be made.

This product and the similar Wine Squirrel are basically scaled down winery tech. The variable size protects against loss of volatile aromatics to the headspace, which is a problem with most other methods.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#21 Post by julianseersmartin » January 25th, 2019, 7:41 am

Did anyone on WB get in on this?

Over on wine pages, backers have started receiving theirs in the last day or two. I am one of the early backers but not sure how much longer it'll take to arrive in the US.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#22 Post by Mark Morrissette » January 25th, 2019, 11:28 am

I ordered a pair early on Kickstarter as well, but have not received mine yet either. No shipping notice yet either. But, I am guessing it will take a couple of more weeks to get to the US. (And, given how long we have waited so far, I am not in any particular rush!)

I have been following along with their emails and updates, and watched the recent videos with interest. Looks pretty interesting, and I am looking forward to getting mine.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#23 Post by YLee » January 25th, 2019, 11:50 am

Even if it keeps wines "fresh" for few days, it appears to be a cool toy to show off to friends & family.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#24 Post by Philip G » January 25th, 2019, 12:08 pm

I think Coravin is probably a better solution as it should expose the wine to less air and therefor the wine will last longer. My Coravin-ed bottles easily last more than 7 days. If all you want to use either for is to drink a bottle over a 1 week period then Eto is more economical at ~$75 vs ~$300 for Coravin plus the cost of canisters.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#25 Post by Anton D » January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm

I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#26 Post by YLee » January 25th, 2019, 12:34 pm

Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#27 Post by John Kight » January 25th, 2019, 12:38 pm

NED VALOIS wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 8:22 am
A tad more eloquent than marbles , however.
And more elegant, too!

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#28 Post by Anton D » January 25th, 2019, 12:39 pm

John Kight wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:38 pm
NED VALOIS wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 8:22 am
A tad more eloquent than marbles , however.
And more elegant, too!
You could have said that better.

[cheers.gif]
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#29 Post by Philip G » January 25th, 2019, 12:52 pm

Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

[cheers.gif]


(Sorry, could only find the video link on FB)
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#30 Post by John Kight » January 25th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Philip G wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:52 pm
Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

[cheers.gif]


(Sorry, could only find the video link on FB)
Wow, that's a thread-killer!

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#31 Post by David Glasser » January 25th, 2019, 6:14 pm

Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:39 pm
John Kight wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:38 pm
NED VALOIS wrote:
June 7th, 2017, 8:22 am
A tad more eloquent than marbles , however.
And more elegant, too!
You could have said that better.

[cheers.gif]
Cut NED a break. Clearly, the design speaks to him.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#32 Post by Barry Sunderland » January 26th, 2019, 4:24 am

John Kight wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 1:30 pm
Philip G wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:52 pm
Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

[cheers.gif]


(Sorry, could only find the video link on FB)
Wow, that's a thread-killer!
I’ve had only ‘1/2’ of this VIDEO, and I DON’T want to ‘preserve’ it!!!

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#33 Post by Clint S Q U I E R » January 26th, 2019, 11:01 am

I’m starting to think this is vaporware. Far too many delays - shame too bc it looks really convenient for saving a bottle for a day or two.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#34 Post by Mark Morrissette » January 26th, 2019, 11:15 am

Clint S Q U I E R wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 11:01 am
I’m starting to think this is vaporware. Far too many delays - shame too bc it looks really convenient for saving a bottle for a day or two.
I could see saying that 6 months ago. But at this point, people are receiving them, and posting initial impressions online. It took a long time, but to me this does not have the air of vaporware anymore.

By definition, essentially everything on Kickstarter is vaporware at the start. It does not exist yet. That is the point. It is the developer's ability to execute that is in question.

I don't have mine yet, so arguably it is still wishful thinking on my part, but it seems to me the product is done and being shipped. Now, hopefully it works!

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#35 Post by Clint S Q U I E R » January 26th, 2019, 11:45 am

Mark Morrissette wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 11:15 am
Clint S Q U I E R wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 11:01 am
I’m starting to think this is vaporware. Far too many delays - shame too bc it looks really convenient for saving a bottle for a day or two.
I could see saying that 6 months ago. But at this point, people are receiving them, and posting initial impressions online. It took a long time, but to me this does not have the air of vaporware anymore.

By definition, essentially everything on Kickstarter is vaporware at the start. It does not exist yet. That is the point. It is the developer's ability to execute that is in question.

I don't have mine yet, so arguably it is still wishful thinking on my part, but it seems to me the product is done and being shipped. Now, hopefully it works!
I missed where people have started receiving theirs....that’s great news.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#36 Post by Mark Morrissette » February 10th, 2019, 1:24 pm

Good news, bad news, good news....

My eto arrived! But, it was broken! But, customer service has been great.

Image




It arrived. The packaging is really high quality. The copper top of the product is beautiful. Unfortunately, the glass decanter was shattered when I opened it up.

I contacted customer service. They responded very quickly, and very friendly. They will be sending me a whole new unit. I will report back....

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#37 Post by julianseersmartin » February 11th, 2019, 10:24 am

Did you get any tracking info Mark or did it just turn up?

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#38 Post by Cole Kendall » February 11th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Mine just turned up absent any tracking info. Will try to use it tonight.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#39 Post by Mark Morrissette » February 11th, 2019, 12:42 pm

julianseersmartin wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 10:24 am
Did you get any tracking info Mark or did it just turn up?
Just showed up. I was a bit surprised, as I had not gotten any tracking info.
Delivered by USPS.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#40 Post by Mark Morrissette » March 19th, 2019, 5:27 am

New eto's arrived, this time not broken. Customer service was very good.

I have not used them yet, but they sure do look nice.
IMG_0361.jpg

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#41 Post by Nick Ryan » March 19th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Anton D wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I am curious as to how big the "left over wine" market is.

Our longest "save" is usually 24 hours. I don't know how I would keep up with an array of 'open and saved for later' wines.

Anyways....this device only works with one bottle at a time, while a Coravin system can save multiples.

It sure is lovely, though!

I could see it for a 1 or two bottle per week drinking pattern. It would fit my household consumption except we usually kill the bottle the next evening.

Hmmm, maybe I am talking myself into it.

[cheers.gif]
The only foolproof wine preservation technique would be one that:

A. Does not expose the wine to any additional oxygen.
B. Does not change the ratio of headspace volume to liquid volume.

Coravin satisfies A for the most part, unlike this and other inventions. But it doesn't satisfy B, and that matters since aromas can be lost even into an inert headspace. I don't know how you would solve both problems at once but that's the holy grail.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#42 Post by Jack Everitt » March 22nd, 2019, 6:01 pm

Happy with first use.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#43 Post by John Morris » March 22nd, 2019, 8:27 pm

Nick Ryan wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 3:09 pm
The only foolproof wine preservation technique would be one that:

A. Does not expose the wine to any additional oxygen.
B. Does not change the ratio of headspace volume to liquid volume.

Coravin satisfies A for the most part, unlike this and other inventions. But it doesn't satisfy B, and that matters since aromas can be lost even into an inert headspace. I don't know how you would solve both problems at once but that's the holy grail.
I've never tried them, but glass beads seem like they address A and B, and they're cheap. Probably not enough money to be made off them, which is why no one promotes them.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#44 Post by Nick Ryan » March 25th, 2019, 7:38 pm

John Morris wrote:
March 22nd, 2019, 8:27 pm
Nick Ryan wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 3:09 pm
The only foolproof wine preservation technique would be one that:

A. Does not expose the wine to any additional oxygen.
B. Does not change the ratio of headspace volume to liquid volume.

Coravin satisfies A for the most part, unlike this and other inventions. But it doesn't satisfy B, and that matters since aromas can be lost even into an inert headspace. I don't know how you would solve both problems at once but that's the holy grail.
I've never tried them, but glass beads seem like they address A and B, and they're cheap. Probably not enough money to be made off them, which is why no one promotes them.
But you can't get the glass beads into the bottle without opening the bottle, thereby introducing oxygen. I'm not sure it's theoretically possible to satisfy A & B perfectly in the context of traditional wine bottles without quantum tunneling.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#45 Post by John Morris » March 25th, 2019, 8:38 pm

Alan Rath showed that very little oxygen enters a wine at the surface unless you splash it around. So apart from any oxygen introduced in the bottle when pouring a glass, the threat of oxygen exposure may be overblown.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#46 Post by Wes Barton » March 25th, 2019, 9:48 pm

John Morris wrote:
March 25th, 2019, 8:38 pm
Alan Rath showed that very little oxygen enters a wine at the surface unless you splash it around. So apart from any oxygen introduced in the bottle when pouring a glass, the threat of oxygen exposure may be overblown.
Yes. I've been surprised by how many very mature wines I've had over the years that had been poured from the bottle, more than half emptied, then simply stuck a cork back in and tried a day or more later.....and were fine. Sometimes better. One time I brought home a case of Cabs, mostly from the '50s-70s. I used good judgment which to consume first over the next several days. Only 2 had significantly dropped off. Some were better.

Of course Cabs aren't particularly fragile, while some other wines are. Using the half bottle method with vulnerable wines, very carefully funneling into a tilted bottle from a just opened wine, then sparging, corking and refrigerating has yielded several oxidized wines the next day. I think, for next day consumption, those wines would've been much better off just left in the original bottle. The oxygen exposure from that very careful transfer is many times what it would get if poured into an unsparged bottle. (Sparging would probably be fine, but not practical.) On the other hand, carefully siphoning into a half bottle (with the tube below the surface of the bottle being transferred into) is minimal exposure. None of the wines I've done that with have had a problem.

With a variable volume container, like the Eto or Wine Squirrel, I think they're probably the best method. It's scaled down winery tech. Opening it up and pouring out some wine shouldn't be an issue. Just some wines, which should be fairly obvious, would be best protected when transferred in. Good opportunity for an add-on product.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#47 Post by Nick Ryan » March 25th, 2019, 10:26 pm

John Morris wrote:
March 25th, 2019, 8:38 pm
Alan Rath showed that very little oxygen enters a wine at the surface unless you splash it around. So apart from any oxygen introduced in the bottle when pouring a glass, the threat of oxygen exposure may be overblown.
Popping the cork and dropping in a dozen beads after emptying half the bottle surely qualifies as splashing around. And as I've proved to myself many times, I have a hyper-sensitivity to O2 so none of the half-assed methods that work for other people work for me (e.g. the half-bottle trick, etc.) Which is why Coravin was such a godsend, except some wines still lose aromatics due to outgassing into the inert increased headspace.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#48 Post by HMechbal » June 25th, 2019, 3:08 am

Are there more people who had the opportunity to test eto ?
Everyone who has one is satisfied ? I'm thinking of buying one.
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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#49 Post by julianseersmartin » June 25th, 2019, 9:12 am

HMechbal wrote:
June 25th, 2019, 3:08 am
Are there more people who had the opportunity to test eto ?
Everyone who has one is satisfied ? I'm thinking of buying one.
I use mine a lot. It does a good job upto the 7-10 day mark which is about all the preservation I ever need to do. Very happy and I'm considering a second so I have red+white.

I have yet to try it with more mature wines, mostly those that are less than 8 years old so far.

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Re: Eto - a new way to preserve wine

#50 Post by Sh@n A » June 25th, 2019, 10:16 am

If you are pouring the entire wine bottle into the Eto, aren't you oxygenating the entire bottle of wine? Isn't that the most violent act you can do to a wine, which is pour it into a decanter? If you seal the decanter off air going forward, wouldn't this still be less ideal than say a Coravin? Or would one trade oxygenating a wine once with no surface area, over no oxygenation with greater surface area? At ~2:30 into the video, there is a fellow who first says the decanted wine tasted as fresh as a freshly opened wine, and then contradicts himself by saying the Eto wine was better because it was more open --- but this is also 7 days after the decant -- which suggests that oxygenating the wine in the initial decant is relatively harmless.

I snipped a photo from the Kickstarter and they show no oxygenation despite the immediate decant. Anyone know if the "freshly opened wine" of 18% is actually a freshly decanted bottle of wine vs. a sealed bottle of wine that was is uncorked? If it is the former, then there is misleading marketing here because a Coravin wine wouldn't be decanted. Also, I'd like to see a Repour in this chart.
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