What is anyone’s experience with Jean Marc Morey? The other night I opened in succession 3 bottles of his Chassagne-Montrachet Caillerets and each was premoxed…dark golden and completely undrinkable. I followed this with a 2008 Leflaive Clavoillon just for kicks, since I knew it was going to suck and I was in a “let’s rid my cellar of all this crap” mood. It did not disappoint…completely premoxed. Since I will no longer pay for Coche and Raveneau for a few hundred dollars a bottle, I will only buy Bourgognes and drink them within a year or two from now on.
Or pay attention to who is using diam. After the recent reports I’m almost willing to start dipping my toes back into WB assuming I limit myself to those producers.
I have heard that it has not done the trick for Fevre, though, unless I got that wrong.
I must have been thinking of Don Cornwell’s post on Fevre when I made that last comment:
"Fevre has a horrible reputation for premox all the way through the 2009 vintage. We had two this year at the annual dinner (2009 Fevre Clos and Preuses) and Fevre Clos was clearly advanced. According to Steen’s article, Fevre was using 40 ppm (or 40mg/L) as their SO2 level. Steen doesn’t tell us the vintage he’s referring to, but presumably that’s from 2009, the last year the grand cru wines were bottled under conventional corks. But what concerns me is that if Fevre was using 40 ppm of SO2, and they are still having premox in their bottles at 7.5 years in the 2009 vintage – by which time Fevre had supposedly used better corks – it suggests that they had some other significant wine-making problem that was causing premox in their wines.
Assuming that there was no other problem in the winemaking process that was exposing the wines to premature oxidation (such as failure to properly dose the wine with SO2 at the crusher, excessive lees stirring or stirring the lees after the M/L is finished, failure to keep the barrels properly topped up, use of too much new oak (which has a much higher oxygen transmission rate through the staves), injection of dissolved oxygen from modern automated bottling lines/equipment, or exposure to some oxidizer like iron piping somewhere along the line) then maybe the much more uniform and controlled oxygen transmission rate obtainable through the DIAM closure would permit Fevre to safely cut the SO2 back from 40 ppm to 30 ppm. But it seems to me that Fevre is eliminating their safety margin and there is certainly ample reason to think, based on the 2009 vintage as well as all of the vintages before it, that Fevre had a much bigger winemaking problem rather than just problems with their corks. I can tell you that the 2015s from Fevre certainly did not inspire my two colleagues from the annual premox dinners that tasted them both in London in January and March here in LA."
So it did not state that there were instances of premox despite Fevre’s switch to DIAMs, just that there must have been winemaking issues other than cork/closure issues, and that post-DIAM bottles “did not inspire” though nothing about them being premoxed.
Does anyone know of any instances of premoxed bottles from any producer despite DIAM closures?
This is so disappointing. Sorry to hear Robert.
What vintages were the Moreys?
This was going to be my question.
Sorry to hear Robert. I dumped to 2 '05 Prieur Corton Charlies down the sink last weekend. It sucks.
According to a post from Eric Lundblad in the thread I linked to:
"Fevre wasn’t all in on Diam until 2010 vintage. 2009 was all 1er cru and below, and there appears to be a smattering (not completely confirmed tho) of GCs with Diam. Also 2009 and prior was Diam5, 2010 and forward is Diam10 (for fevre).
Looking at Cellartracker (Fevre) 2007-2009 1er cru doesn’t show any premox reports, whereas GC for the same period show many premox reports.
The length and methodical approach Fevre used in their evaluation and roll out of Diam was a big reason why I eventually switched (testing internal to Fevre 2002 onward, bottling chablis & petit chablis 2004+, 1er cru 2007+, GC 2010+). Also the fact that any issues are most likely to show with chablis."
Oh, didn’t mean to leave that off.
They were 2008’s.
As a result of this thrilling experience, I lined up all my bottles of “aging” white Burgundy and plan to open them over the short term in a shotgun approach…when I say aging, I mean not the “house” Bourgognes of recent vintages…and the only exceptions will be my relatively few Coche-Dury’s and Raveneau’s that are still hanging around and my couple bottles of 99 Leflaive Chevalier. I just mean to rid my cellar of the detritus. I will be a little slower with opening my non-Raveneau Chablis, only from a possibly deluded impression that they are a bit less affected, but time to start sampling those from 2004, 2008, 2010. I know this may result in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but I think there are fewer babies and a whole mess of bathwater. Even though the annual premox vintage assessments show that even in the worst vintages the majority are not affected, I am kinda done. A bit adolescent in approach, I know.
By shotgun approach, I thought maybe you were just going to blast them off the counter…
With Fevre, 2010 was the first year all GC’s had Diams. (and, although I don’t buy much of any Fevre anymore, I’ve had a case or more of the PC’s starting in 2007 under Diam and never had a premoxed bottle. Contrast that with several 2008 GC’s that have been premoxed with regular corks).
I know exactly how you feel. I made my way through my 2 cases of 2002 Huets in about 1 year’s time. Most of them went down the sink and I haven’t been able to bring myself to start buying again.
I am buying a dozen of Niellon 2013, my first case purchase of WBs in five years, and only because it was such an incredible deal. Will be drunk very young.
Sorry for your bad run. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that sucks. I can’t believe they still cost so much. That said, I look at myself and white burgs are really the only whites I enjoy (aside from Champagne). I only mostly keep them around for the couple of hot days a year we have or for guests. We just drink a few a year. I’ve never had a premoxed bottle (and so there it is, the kiss of death) and half of my stuff is Leflaive. Every time I open one I feel like Christopher Walken’s character in the Deer Hunter when he’s playing Russian Roulette.
Here’s my note from the 2008 Leflaive Claivoillon. Light yellow color. I could smell this all night. Honey, dough, nut skin/pistachio - smells like a fresh tray of baklava. Sleek, buttery first impression. Jasmine, pear and lemon zest flavors. Tart, tongue-coating, puckery finish. Very good length. This is coiled and needs a couple of years. There is the gamble. Super. 93 - I’ve got one of these in the fridge for an upcoming offline with a fellow Berserker.
I’ve mostly taken to your strategy though which is I’m buying Bourgognes and lesser wines like Leflaive’s Macon Verze and drinking them within the first few years. I have a few Pernot around too and no troubles there. I’ve avoided Jadot. I have a few Fevre around too and again, all good so far. I had a 2006 Drouhin Chablis Vaudesir last summer and it was sound.
Anyway, I hope you have better luck with “The Great White Burg Harvest.”
Yup, and still not sure why Rosenthal brings in JM Morey. In my old job, I was actually brought sample bottles that were premoxed.
On the flip side, I increasingly question the need to age most of these. White Burgundy seems to drink well in its first five years (not necessarily a coincidence - riper, less acidic wine that drinks well younger also doesn’t age as well?), why gamble?
Caveat - I mostly buy and drink them in the under $80 category, so I’m less sure how the balla wines drink young versus gambling with premox to see them age more.
My feeling was always that while white Burgundy can drink very well young it only becomes worth the price with age. Once aging wasn’t an option I wasn’t going to spend the money.
Interesting; very interesting. Does anyone have similar experiences with wine bottled under closures other than natural corks and the premox…?
I’ve been drinking through a case of Patrice Rion 1996 aligote under screw cap…and no issues…of course, I have no idea whether aligote was ever afftected.
The results of wines bottled under other than natural cork re: premox, would be fascinating. If everyone’s experience were like John’s witht the Fevre 2007s…and 2008, that would certainly implicate the corks as a variable.
As said previously:
Much worse than TCA
It is worrying that none of the wineries timely investigated this in a scientific manner