It's critic bingo! (Furballs?)

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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John Morris
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#401 Post by John Morris » October 23rd, 2018, 6:37 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 4:10 am
Clearly Johnny Harvard, with his smoker's jacket and pipe, never sat around with this study hall and poetry gents, sipping sherry out of etched crystal Waterfords, while enjoying sliced Spam, a salted meat paste that does not include bovine, and aged blue-cheese with toasted walnuts.
Actually, it's probably because poor Johnny went to college at a state school.
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It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#402 Post by John Morris » November 1st, 2018, 9:35 am

Here's a tasting note whose vacuousness has no beginning or end; it simply exists in all dimensions. A vacuousness that eludes description:
2010 Domaine Leroy - Chambertin Grand Cru
The 2010 Chambertin is stellar. A wine with no beginning and no end, the 2010 simply exists in all dimensions. On the palate, the Chambertin is fabulously seamless and silky, but the reality is that the wine's truest essence eludes description with mere words. The wine is just deeply moving. -- Antonio Galloni - 98 points
Lots of phrases here for the Galloni bingo card.
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#403 Post by Jeff Leve » November 1st, 2018, 9:48 am

John Morris wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:35 am
Here's a tasting note whose vacuousness has no beginning or end; it simply exists in all dimensions. A vacuousness that eludes description:
2010 Domaine Leroy - Chambertin Grand Cru
The 2010 Chambertin is stellar. A wine with no beginning and no end, the 2010 simply exists in all dimensions. On the palate, the Chambertin is fabulously seamless and silky, but the reality is that the wine's truest essence eludes description with mere words. The wine is just deeply moving. -- Antonio Galloni - 98 points
Lots of phrases here for the Galloni bingo card.
True, but he clearly expresses his love for the wine. For the few buyers that enjoy Leroy that have the ability to source and pay for the wine, isn't that his job, to express his like, dislike, or place somewhere in between? His note is stronger than just using points, though I expected it to hit 100, based on his prose.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#404 Post by Matthew King » November 1st, 2018, 10:08 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:48 am
John Morris wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:35 am
Here's a tasting note whose vacuousness has no beginning or end; it simply exists in all dimensions. A vacuousness that eludes description:
2010 Domaine Leroy - Chambertin Grand Cru
The 2010 Chambertin is stellar. A wine with no beginning and no end, the 2010 simply exists in all dimensions. On the palate, the Chambertin is fabulously seamless and silky, but the reality is that the wine's truest essence eludes description with mere words. The wine is just deeply moving. -- Antonio Galloni - 98 points
Lots of phrases here for the Galloni bingo card.
True, but he clearly expresses his love for the wine. For the few buyers that enjoy Leroy that have the ability to source and pay for the wine, isn't that his job, to express his like, dislike, or place somewhere in between? His note is stronger than just using points, though I expected it to hit 100, based on his prose.
I'm with John on this one. There is no there, there. He could be describing 2001 d'Yquem or
1979 Krug Champagne Clos du Mesnil for all I can tell from his tasting note. But maybe that's what happens when you fall into some kind of "Matrix"-like time/space continuum where wine neither begins nor ends?

But what's the point of a note on this wine, after all? If, as you note, someone enjoys Leroy and has the capital to spend on a 2010 Chambertin and can source it, they are going to buy it in a nano-second no matter what Galloni has to say about the wine.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#405 Post by John Morris » November 1st, 2018, 10:11 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:48 am
True, but he clearly expresses his love for the wine. For the few buyers that enjoy Leroy that have the ability to source and pay for the wine, isn't that his job, to express his like, dislike, or place somewhere in between? His note is stronger than just using points, though I expected it to hit 100, based on his prose.
If that's your standard for wine criticism, Jeff, then why not just say use a five-point scale ("down-the-drain" to "superb" or some such) and dispense with the text? Parker once, circa 1990, rated a large batch of California chardonnays with just scores, not notes. It was utterly useless because it gave no indication of the style (oaky/tank aged; rich/lean). Same thing here. From the "silky" descriptor, this could sound like it's ready to drink, though that would be odd. I have no sense of whether this is built for the ages -- as one might expect of a 2010 grand cru -- or if it's unusually soft.

If you're saying, "Well, the lucky few who buy Leroy know what it tastes like," then, as Matt suggests, why bother to review it at all? Just to provide validation for wealthy buyers? If so, he could just have a two-point scale, "Buy" and "Don't Buy" (which is actually what many of Galloni's notes amount to these days).
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#406 Post by Jeff Leve » November 1st, 2018, 10:26 am

No. My comment was solely about that note for that wine.

I agree with you 100% that it offers zero details on its profile. But with a wine that few people can find, and even less people can afford, it clearly expresses his enthusiasm. The intent of a tasting note IMO should unambiguously express where the taster stands on the wine. The why in 99.9% if the cases is also part of the game. But in this case, he was quite clear where he stood.

There are zero bottles on Wine Searcher. The 2009, unless I have the wrong wine is not even available for much under 10K!

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+ ... price_max=

What more info do you need before you spend 10K per bottle? Me, zero! Because I would never consider buying wines at that price. Each wine and note has its own audience. IMO, for that specific wine, the note works. For wines mere mortals buy, I would like to know why he is so enthusiastic.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#407 Post by John Morris » November 1st, 2018, 10:42 am

I agree that the note should convey what the reviewer's enthusiasm or lack of it. But that's a necessary element, not a sufficient one. If you were prone to forking out $10K for bottles, would you do so without knowing if it should be drunk now ("silky") or held for 20 years? If so, I'd say you're a rich f*#% who is just reading the notes so you can cite them when you show off your cellar. I would hope wine critics have higher aspirations.

As I've said many times, I find Parker's notes quite useful even though our palates long ceased to sync because I can always tell from his descriptions the basic style of the wine. His notes aren't vacuous or BS.

(For the record, I wrote him to complain about those score-only chardonnay ratings at the time and he never did that again. And in his later years, when there was a lot of criticism of his preferences, he seemed to go out of his way to convey the style of wines he reviewed. I give him full credit for writing in a way the made his notes useful even to those whose tastes might diverge from his.)
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#408 Post by Jeff Leve » November 1st, 2018, 10:58 am

We agree on Parker. Tasting notes, generally speaking, are boring. As you pointed out, regardless of if you agreed with him or not, his notes were well written, expressive and you knew what to expect from the wine. In my own way, as I pen slightly less than 2,000 notes per year, I try to do the same for most wines.

We also agree on another issue, scores without notes are worthless. Style counts. I also feel notes without scores from pros are worthless.

Again, this is only about this wine and that note, but yes, folks that are going to pop 10K on a bottle of wine probably do not pay attention to tasting notes. I am quite certain that buyers for that wine know it is age-worthy and they are also aware of vintage quality. That makes more details superfluous IMO. We are not talking about a common wine. Folks at that level, probably do not read or care about reviews, they will buy anyway.

That is a bizarre world for me. No judgment, just a lack of comprehension on my part. But I am aware that all values and prices are subjective. I am quite sure, the majority of the world feels that way about any wine priced over $40.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#409 Post by Greg K » November 1st, 2018, 11:12 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
We agree on Parker. Tasting notes, generally speaking, are boring. As you pointed out, regardless of if you agreed with him or not, his notes were well written, expressive and you knew what to expect from the wine. In my own way, as I pen slightly less than 2,000 notes per year, I try to do the same for most wines.

We also agree on another issue, scores without notes are worthless. Style counts. I also feel notes without scores from pros are worthless.

Again, this is only about this wine and that note, but yes, folks that are going to pop 10K on a bottle of wine probably do not pay attention to tasting notes. I am quite certain that buyers for that wine know it is age-worthy and they are also aware of vintage quality. That makes more details superfluous IMO. We are not talking about a common wine. Folks at that level, probably do not read or care about reviews, they will buy anyway.

That is a bizarre world for me. No judgment, just a lack of comprehension on my part. But I am aware that all values and prices are subjective. I am quite sure, the majority of the world feels that way about any wine priced over $40.
This really doesn't answer my question of when I should start drinking my case of 2010 Leroy Chambertin.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#410 Post by Jeff Leve » November 1st, 2018, 11:24 am

Greg K wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:12 am

This really doesn't answer my question of when I should start drinking my case of 2010 Leroy Chambertin.
It depends on your case. Is it mags or just 750 bottles?

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#411 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » November 1st, 2018, 11:39 am

John Morris wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 9:35 am
Here's a tasting note whose vacuousness has no beginning or end; it simply exists in all dimensions. A vacuousness that eludes description:
2010 Domaine Leroy - Chambertin Grand Cru
The 2010 Chambertin is stellar. A wine with no beginning and no end, the 2010 simply exists in all dimensions. On the palate, the Chambertin is fabulously seamless and silky, but the reality is that the wine's truest essence eludes description with mere words. The wine is just deeply moving. -- Antonio Galloni - 98 points
Lots of phrases here for the Galloni bingo card.
This is indeed a hilariously awful note, reads like some kind of spoof. How many dimensions are there? I believe even the lowest supermarket wine exists in all three dimensions of material reality accessible to us ordinary (non-wine critic) mortals.

If the Dude from the Big Lebowski was a wine critic he would write like this.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#412 Post by Greg K » November 1st, 2018, 11:40 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:24 am
Greg K wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:12 am

This really doesn't answer my question of when I should start drinking my case of 2010 Leroy Chambertin.
It depends on your case. Is it mags or just 750 bottles?
Much like the wine, my case exists in many dimensions neener
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#413 Post by John Morris » November 2nd, 2018, 12:17 pm

Fruits of every color plus "dark, stony minerals," whatever those are.
2016 CHATEAU DE BEAUCASTEL CHÂTEAUNEUF-DU-PAPE
99 Points, James Suckling:
“This is a stunning Beaucastel. A classic! Has a superb array of fruit, ranging from red, through to blue, darker purple and black. Nuances of dark, stony minerals, spices, wild flowers and herbs. So fleshy. This has impeccable balance, super-silky tannins and an extraordinarily long finish. This has decades ahead of it. Drink or hold”
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#414 Post by A. So » November 2nd, 2018, 12:19 pm

Greg K wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 11:12 am
Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 10:58 am
We agree on Parker. Tasting notes, generally speaking, are boring. As you pointed out, regardless of if you agreed with him or not, his notes were well written, expressive and you knew what to expect from the wine. In my own way, as I pen slightly less than 2,000 notes per year, I try to do the same for most wines.

We also agree on another issue, scores without notes are worthless. Style counts. I also feel notes without scores from pros are worthless.

Again, this is only about this wine and that note, but yes, folks that are going to pop 10K on a bottle of wine probably do not pay attention to tasting notes. I am quite certain that buyers for that wine know it is age-worthy and they are also aware of vintage quality. That makes more details superfluous IMO. We are not talking about a common wine. Folks at that level, probably do not read or care about reviews, they will buy anyway.

That is a bizarre world for me. No judgment, just a lack of comprehension on my part. But I am aware that all values and prices are subjective. I am quite sure, the majority of the world feels that way about any wine priced over $40.
This really doesn't answer my question of when I should start drinking my case of 2010 Leroy Chambertin.
Doesn't matter when. This wine exists over all time.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#415 Post by John Morris » November 2nd, 2018, 12:23 pm

Meanwhile, Molesworth is back on his alder thing, though this time it is not "singed."
2015 CHATEAU DE BEAUCASTEL CHÂTEAUNEUF-DU-PAPE
97 Points, James Molesworth, Wine Spectator: “A stunner from the get-go, with waves of thoroughly seductive boysenberry, plum, blueberry and raspberry reduction forming the core, while roasted apple wood, rooibos tea, bergamot, and anise notes flash throughout. Has plenty of bass, with a Turkish coffee accent and a hint of alder driving underneath. Everything moves in lockstep through the seriously long finish. Best from 2020 through 2045. “
This time it's the apple wood that has been roasted, as it has been in other wines he's reviewed.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#416 Post by John Morris » November 2nd, 2018, 1:43 pm

2016 Au Bon Climat Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard
Vinous 95
"The 2016 Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard is an arrestingly beautiful wine that will stop readers dead in their tracks. Rich and powerful on the palate, yet with tremendous tension, the 2016 has it all. I especially admire the wine's delineation and overall pedigree. What a gorgeous wine this."-Antonio Galloni
As one would expect from an arresting wine.

(Note that bingo card favorite, "pedigree"!)
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#417 Post by Alan Rath » November 2nd, 2018, 1:49 pm

John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 12:17 pm
Fruits of every color plus "dark, stony minerals," whatever those are.
Oh come on, I can think of obsidian, granite, maybe even graphite [stirthepothal.gif]

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#418 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » November 2nd, 2018, 1:57 pm

John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 1:43 pm
2016 Au Bon Climat Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard
Vinous 95
"The 2016 Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard is an arrestingly beautiful wine that will stop readers dead in their tracks. Rich and powerful on the palate, yet with tremendous tension, the 2016 has it all. I especially admire the wine's delineation and overall pedigree. What a gorgeous wine this."-Antonio Galloni
As one would expect from an arresting wine.

(Note that bingo card favorite, "pedigree"!)
Call the cops!

Incidentally, what does the wine taste like?

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#419 Post by Jayson Cohen » November 2nd, 2018, 6:42 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 1:49 pm
John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 12:17 pm
Fruits of every color plus "dark, stony minerals," whatever those are.
Oh come on, I can think of obsidian, granite, maybe even graphite [stirthepothal.gif]
I was thinking Kidney stones.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#420 Post by John Morris » November 3rd, 2018, 7:33 am

They just keep coming!
2008 Dom Perignon Legacy Box
Vinous 98+
"The 2008 Dom Pérignon is fabulous, but quite remarkably, it was even more open when I tasted it a year ago. Bright, focused and crystalline in its precision, the 2008 is going to need a number of years before it is at its best. Lemon peel, white flowers, mint and white pepper give the 2008 its chiseled, bright profile. Several recent bottles have all been magnificent. What I admire most about the 2008 is the way it shows all the focus, translucence and energy that is such a signature of the year, and yet it is also remarkably deep and vertical. In other words, the 2008 is a Champagne that plays in three dimensions."-Antonio Galloni
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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#421 Post by A. So » November 3rd, 2018, 8:21 am

John Morris wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 7:33 am
They just keep coming!
2008 Dom Perignon Legacy Box
Vinous 98+
"The 2008 Dom Pérignon is fabulous, but quite remarkably, it was even more open when I tasted it a year ago. Bright, focused and crystalline in its precision, the 2008 is going to need a number of years before it is at its best. Lemon peel, white flowers, mint and white pepper give the 2008 its chiseled, bright profile. Several recent bottles have all been magnificent. What I admire most about the 2008 is the way it shows all the focus, translucence and energy that is such a signature of the year, and yet it is also remarkably deep and vertical. In other words, the 2008 is a Champagne that plays in three dimensions."-Antonio Galloni
Doesn't play in time like 2010 Leroy Chambertin. Rejected.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#422 Post by Jim Brennan » November 3rd, 2018, 8:42 am

John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 1:43 pm
2016 Au Bon Climat Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard
Vinous 95
"The 2016 Chardonnay Sanford & Benedict Vineyard is an arrestingly beautiful wine that will stop readers dead in their tracks. Rich and powerful on the palate, yet with tremendous tension, the 2016 has it all. I especially admire the wine's delineation and overall pedigree. What a gorgeous wine this."-Antonio Galloni
As one would expect from an arresting wine.

(Note that bingo card favorite, "pedigree"!)

I feel like he says a whole lot of nothing in this tasting note. Without the name, you'd not even have an inkling regarding whether it is red or white.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#423 Post by John Morris » November 3rd, 2018, 9:37 am

Same with the note in post #402 above, and many others.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#424 Post by Yao C » November 3rd, 2018, 9:41 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
November 1st, 2018, 10:26 am
The intent of a tasting note IMO should unambiguously express where the taster stands on the wine.
Isn't the function of a professional critic to sell wines and make people feel good about the wines they have bought / are about to buy? AG's note seems to work pretty well under that rubric
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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#425 Post by Alan Rath » November 3rd, 2018, 9:45 am

Jim Brennan wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 8:42 am
John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 1:43 pm
"Rich and powerful on the palate, yet with tremendous tension"
I feel like he says a whole lot of nothing in this tasting note. Without the name, you'd not even have an inkling regarding whether it is red or white.
For me, this part is just fine (words I would use myself, and which have some meaning). The rest is the fluff padding that critics feel the need to include so that they're not just writing one of about 5 lines for 100 different wines.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#426 Post by Jayson Cohen » November 3rd, 2018, 9:54 am

I am no fan or defender of Antonio’s notes, grammar, and tendency to find something to like in everything, but I disagree with some of the criticisms of this note on 2008 Dom. I think it conveys a lot of info, particularly to a person who knows Dom. And that is saying something compared to some of his other notes on wines.

Also the suggestion that one would want to read a critic’s note on a wine in isolation from what that wine is, Jim, doesn’t make sense to me. Once you know it’s Dom, he doesn’t need to tell the reader it’s red or white. Especially to the audience he writes for.

That said, how he can write consecutive sentences that claim the wine is vertical, deep, and three-dimensional is beyond me. Who the F knows what he’s saying. The typical wine lingo I think he is trying to invoke is dichotomous. A wine can be vertical or spherical, both generally positive descriptors. And vertical wines can become spherical wines, typically with time in bottle. But the way he uses the terms vertical, deep, and three-dimensional, I agree those words tend to lose any discernible meaning to even the most experienced readers, like ourselves.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Overripeness lost in translation?

#427 Post by Jim Brennan » November 3rd, 2018, 10:25 am

Alan Rath wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 9:45 am
Jim Brennan wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 8:42 am
John Morris wrote:
November 2nd, 2018, 1:43 pm
"Rich and powerful on the palate, yet with tremendous tension"
I feel like he says a whole lot of nothing in this tasting note. Without the name, you'd not even have an inkling regarding whether it is red or white.
For me, this part is just fine (words I would use myself, and which have some meaning). The rest is the fluff padding that critics feel the need to include so that they're not just writing one of about 5 lines for 100 different wines.

I meant the whole note overall, not just that excerpt. The only useful words in the entire note were rich, powerful, and tension. The rest of the note is entirely superfluous bloviating. It's utterly incomplete as well.
Last edited by Jim Brennan on November 3rd, 2018, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#428 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » November 3rd, 2018, 10:33 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 9:54 am

Also the suggestion that one would want to read a critic’s note on a wine in isolation from what that wine is, Jim, doesn’t make sense to me. Once you know it’s Dom, he doesn’t need to tell the reader it’s red or white. Especially to the audience he writes for.
Not an expert on Dom, but did have the 2009 last weekend, but I agree with you about this note, compared with the Chardonnay note that is utterly worthless. The Dom note becomes a joke in the last two sentences. He should have ended the note here:
The 2008 Dom Pérignon is fabulous, but quite remarkably, it was even more open when I tasted it a year ago. Bright, focused and crystalline in its precision, the 2008 is going to need a number of years before it is at its best. Lemon peel, white flowers, mint and white pepper give the 2008 its chiseled, bright profile. Several recent bottles have all been magnificent. What I admire most about the 2008 is the way it shows all the focus, translucence and energy that is such a signature of the year.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#429 Post by GregT » November 3rd, 2018, 1:04 pm

The white flowers helped give it a chiseled profile. You just don't get that same chiseling with yellow flowers, and certainly not with red flowers! No. For chiseling, you need white ones.

And as for those dark stony notes a few posts back, those were just nuances anyway. Many people confuse the dark stony notes with pale stony notes and I think that's where a lot of tasting notes start becoming meaningless, because if you were to buy the wine expecting notes of the dark stones and you got the light ones, well, you'd be pissed off. And rightly so.

Also, I do think that the note on the S&B Chardonnay is a little offensive. It's very insensitive to say that the wine will be arresting and will stop you dead in your tracks.

An arrest should result in no loss of life.

This wine sounds like it was poorly trained.

Anyway, this isn't new and I'm not sure I even agree but maybe the writers should look at this column:

https://www.decanter.com/learn/how-to/h ... _source=ET
G . T a t a r

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#430 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 2nd, 2018, 4:00 am

John Morris wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 7:33 am
They just keep coming!
2008 Dom Perignon Legacy Box
Vinous 98+
"The 2008 Dom Pérignon is fabulous, but quite remarkably, it was even more open when I tasted it a year ago. Bright, focused and crystalline in its precision, the 2008 is going to need a number of years before it is at its best. Lemon peel, white flowers, mint and white pepper give the 2008 its chiseled, bright profile. Several recent bottles have all been magnificent. What I admire most about the 2008 is the way it shows all the focus, translucence and energy that is such a signature of the year, and yet it is also remarkably deep and vertical. In other words, the 2008 is a Champagne that plays in three dimensions."-Antonio Galloni
Back to the Dom, here is the note by Suckling:
The best Dom since 2002. A vintage with very restrained, powerful style that has been released non-sequentially after the 2009. This has a lighter stamp of highly curated, autolytic, toasty aromas than many recent releases. Instead, this delivers super fresh and intense aromas of lemons, grapefruit and blood-orange peel. Incredible freshness here. The palate has a very smoothly delivered, berry-pastry thread with light, sweet spices, stone fruit and fine citrus fruit. This really delivers. Drink now or hold.

98 points, James Suckling (Sep 2018)
I have to admit, I had to look up the word, "autolytic". And I still don't get it.

Autolytic:

The breaking down of cells or tissues by their own enzymes. Also called self-digestion.

In biology, autolysis, more commonly known as self-digestion, refers to the destruction of a cell through the action of its own enzymes. It may also refer to the digestion of an enzyme by another molecule of the same enzyme.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#431 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » December 2nd, 2018, 5:44 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 2nd, 2018, 4:00 am
John Morris wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 7:33 am
They just keep coming!
2008 Dom Perignon Legacy Box
Vinous 98+
"The 2008 Dom Pérignon is fabulous, but quite remarkably, it was even more open when I tasted it a year ago. Bright, focused and crystalline in its precision, the 2008 is going to need a number of years before it is at its best. Lemon peel, white flowers, mint and white pepper give the 2008 its chiseled, bright profile. Several recent bottles have all been magnificent. What I admire most about the 2008 is the way it shows all the focus, translucence and energy that is such a signature of the year, and yet it is also remarkably deep and vertical. In other words, the 2008 is a Champagne that plays in three dimensions."-Antonio Galloni
Back to the Dom, here is the note by Suckling:
The best Dom since 2002. A vintage with very restrained, powerful style that has been released non-sequentially after the 2009. This has a lighter stamp of highly curated, autolytic, toasty aromas than many recent releases. Instead, this delivers super fresh and intense aromas of lemons, grapefruit and blood-orange peel. Incredible freshness here. The palate has a very smoothly delivered, berry-pastry thread with light, sweet spices, stone fruit and fine citrus fruit. This really delivers. Drink now or hold.

98 points, James Suckling (Sep 2018)
I have to admit, I had to look up the word, "autolytic". And I still don't get it.

Autolytic:

The breaking down of cells or tissues by their own enzymes. Also called self-digestion.

In biology, autolysis, more commonly known as self-digestion, refers to the destruction of a cell through the action of its own enzymes. It may also refer to the digestion of an enzyme by another molecule of the same enzyme.
I think he means less yeasty/bready, more fruity. A lot of flavors in Champagne come from yeast autolysis so it’s a reasonable thing to say. Google “autolysis wine wiki” and there is a Wikipedia entry that explains.

I sometime find Suckling’s notes to be often more informative than some other critics, and definitely more so than his inflated scores.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#432 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 2nd, 2018, 5:46 am

Aha, that’s great: learn something new every day!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autolysis_(wine)

No, his note on the Dom is quite descriptive and generally very good, just a little conflict between whether it is restrained, powerful or light, but the essence and taste of the wine comes through rather well. I just had no clue how that one word applied.

Thanks!

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#433 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm

[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#434 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 1:46 pm

From the same Zachy's e-mail:
James Suckling notes, “The 2015 Solaia is the best Solaia ever. Not so much for his sheer power or structure, but for its harmony and character that shows an incredible depth and strength. It’s a wine that makes your mind race with subtle thoughts and passion for its great quality. It is emotionally charged with all of its provenance and pedigree. This is why I rated it 100 points and why we choose it as our Italian Wine of the Year 2018.”
(I assume that's the royal "we.")
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#435 Post by Marcus Dean » December 3rd, 2018, 5:12 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
maybe this is some kind of inside joke and at the end of the year all the critics get together and laugh about some of the inane rubbish they got published

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#436 Post by crickey » December 3rd, 2018, 5:36 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
That doesn't bother me. She's not describing the wine per say. She's saying, poetically, that all the factors that go into a great wine were there in spades, when grape, terroir and weather all add up. She just said it better than I just did. I don't mind the poetic license.
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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#437 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » December 3rd, 2018, 5:51 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
Johnny you left out the best stuff from the entire note!
There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment. This was a warm vintage that shows less favorably in my opinion in different parts of Italy and with other grapes that render their most elegant performances in the cooler vintages. I would put pure expressions of Nebbiolo and Sangiovese in this category. However, Tuscany and many of her great blended reds (made partially or fully with international grapes) operate according to a different logic. To me, their maximum expression comes when you can taste that Tuscan sunshine beaming from within. Its rays are brilliant and warm. They shine across the senses with opulence and intensity. The very name Solaia evokes the concept of sunshine and this unique Tuscan wine archetype I am referring to. With the 2015 vintage, Solaia is liquid sunshine not just in name but also in fact. The bouquet is immediately soft and sensual with dark fruit, spice and sweet tobacco. The mouthfeel shows intensity and power, but you don't get any heavy residue from the dry extract (measured at 33 grams per liter). Indeed, the wine feels glossy, tonic and fresh. It is composed of mostly Cabernet Sauvignon with Sangiovese and a tiny part Cabernet Franc. There is a bit of crunch or snap that comes thanks to the more acidity-prone Sangiovese grape (the wine measures 3.5 in pH). Finally, the tannins are beautifully sweet and ripe. This wine is meticulously executed, and the 2015 vintage lives up to an ideal of what we imagine Solaia to be. It will be released about a week after this review is published.

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#438 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 6:44 pm

crickey wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:36 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
That doesn't bother me. She's not describing the wine per say. She's saying, poetically, that all the factors that go into a great wine were there in spades, when grape, terroir and weather all add up. She just said it better than I just did. I don't mind the poetic license.
I'd say that's a rather broad definition of poetry.

“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#439 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 6:48 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:51 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
Johnny you left out the best stuff from the entire note!
There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment. This was a warm vintage that shows less favorably in my opinion in different parts of Italy and with other grapes that render their most elegant performances in the cooler vintages. I would put pure expressions of Nebbiolo and Sangiovese in this category. However, Tuscany and many of her great blended reds (made partially or fully with international grapes) operate according to a different logic. To me, their maximum expression comes when you can taste that Tuscan sunshine beaming from within. Its rays are brilliant and warm. They shine across the senses with opulence and intensity. The very name Solaia evokes the concept of sunshine and this unique Tuscan wine archetype I am referring to. With the 2015 vintage, Solaia is liquid sunshine not just in name but also in fact. The bouquet is immediately soft and sensual with dark fruit, spice and sweet tobacco. The mouthfeel shows intensity and power, but you don't get any heavy residue from the dry extract (measured at 33 grams per liter). Indeed, the wine feels glossy, tonic and fresh. It is composed of mostly Cabernet Sauvignon with Sangiovese and a tiny part Cabernet Franc. There is a bit of crunch or snap that comes thanks to the more acidity-prone Sangiovese grape (the wine measures 3.5 in pH). Finally, the tannins are beautifully sweet and ripe. This wine is meticulously executed, and the 2015 vintage lives up to an ideal of what we imagine Solaia to be. It will be released about a week after this review is published.
I don't know how I can ever forgive Zachy's for quoting only a portion of that.

Still trying to figure this part out, though:
Solaia is liquid sunshine not just in name but also in fact.
Is she saying it's a dish detergent?
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! Dept. of Spacey Wines

#440 Post by Jayson Cohen » December 3rd, 2018, 7:09 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 5:51 pm
John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 1:43 pm
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
“There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment.” -Monica Larner, Robert Parker’s Wine Advocate, quoted in a Zachy's e-mail
Johnny you left out the best stuff from the entire note!
There is a magical infinity, a continuous loop of compatibilities, between the icon wines of Tuscany and the 2015 vintage. The stunning 2015 Solaia is solid evidence of this perfect alignment. This was a warm vintage that shows less favorably in my opinion in different parts of Italy and with other grapes that render their most elegant performances in the cooler vintages. I would put pure expressions of Nebbiolo and Sangiovese in this category. However, Tuscany and many of her great blended reds (made partially or fully with international grapes) operate according to a different logic. To me, their maximum expression comes when you can taste that Tuscan sunshine beaming from within. Its rays are brilliant and warm. They shine across the senses with opulence and intensity. The very name Solaia evokes the concept of sunshine and this unique Tuscan wine archetype I am referring to. With the 2015 vintage, Solaia is liquid sunshine not just in name but also in fact. The bouquet is immediately soft and sensual with dark fruit, spice and sweet tobacco. The mouthfeel shows intensity and power, but you don't get any heavy residue from the dry extract (measured at 33 grams per liter). Indeed, the wine feels glossy, tonic and fresh. It is composed of mostly Cabernet Sauvignon with Sangiovese and a tiny part Cabernet Franc. There is a bit of crunch or snap that comes thanks to the more acidity-prone Sangiovese grape (the wine measures 3.5 in pH). Finally, the tannins are beautifully sweet and ripe. This wine is meticulously executed, and the 2015 vintage lives up to an ideal of what we imagine Solaia to be. It will be released about a week after this review is published.
Can someone explain how it’s Sangiovese that isn’t supposedly as good in warm vintages like 2015 but it’s also the Sangiovese that adds the freshness and acidity to the Solaia? That’s putting aside all the other sunshine in a bottle stuff.

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#441 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 7:10 pm

You're such a scientist, Jayson -- focusing on the factually verifiable part and ignoring the "poetic" metaphors.
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It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#442 Post by Jayson Cohen » December 3rd, 2018, 7:14 pm

John Morris wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 7:10 pm
You're such a scientist, Jayson -- focusing on the factually verifiable part and ignoring the "poetic" metaphors.
I think it’s a nice complement to our last go-round with Galloni’s spherically linear wine.

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#443 Post by John Morris » December 3rd, 2018, 7:31 pm

Monica and Antonio should get together and compare metaphor notes.

Or not.
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It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#444 Post by Alan Rath » December 3rd, 2018, 8:22 pm

You are all such Debbie-Downers. How are we supposed to appreciate the brilliance of a pure black painting on canvas, if we can't also appreciate "liquid sunshine" in a glass?

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#445 Post by John Morris » December 9th, 2018, 9:53 am

This sounds more like a chorus than an aria:
The medium garnet-purple colored 2015 Cabernet Sauvignon Few and Far Between belts out an aria of black cherries, kirsch, black raspberries, roses and lilacs scents with Indian spices, underbrush and cigar box nuances plus a waft of iron ore. The palate is full-bodied and firm yet plushly textured, generating wave after wave of perfumed elegance. It finishes epically long, multilayered and with great freshness, culminating in loads of captivating of minerally sparks. Wow, just wow.
- Lisa Perotti-Brown, Wine Advocate (100 point score)

What does iron ore smell like, anyway? Has anyone sniffed any recently?

And what does "garnet-purple" look like?

The palate is perfumed? I thought you picked up perfumes on the nose.
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It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#446 Post by Nick Ryan » December 9th, 2018, 11:06 am

culminating in loads of captivating of minerally sparks
Say what?
http://sites.google.com/site/nryan4242/CellarPlannerV11.zip

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#447 Post by GregT » December 9th, 2018, 11:26 am

belts out an aria of black cherries, kirsch, black raspberries,
I read that one to my wife.

She looked at me and slowly repeated it twice.

"That's awful writing for several reasons. And it's disgusting if you visualize it."

You don't "belt" out an aria.

As far as the sunshine in a bottle, I think that's pretty clear.

She said that Sangiovese is better in cooler vintages. It's just when it's in Tuscany that it is better in the warm sunny vintages. Everywhere else, like say, Bordeaux, Sangiovese is best in the cooler vintages.
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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#448 Post by John Morris » December 9th, 2018, 11:35 am

Nick Ryan wrote:
December 9th, 2018, 11:06 am
culminating in loads of captivating of minerally sparks
Say what?
That wine requires a three-prong, grounded outlet.
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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#449 Post by John Morris » December 9th, 2018, 11:36 am

GregT wrote:
December 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
Everywhere else, like say, Bordeaux, Sangiovese is best in the cooler vintages.
That's always been my view.
“The writing of legislation is perhaps the highest art form the United States has yet achieved, even more original and compelling than the television commercial.” – Gore Vidal, 1974

It's hard for a $35 zin to compete with a $100 cabernet that tastes the same. – me, 2018

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Re: It's critic bingo! "A magical infinity!"

#450 Post by Jeff Leve » December 9th, 2018, 11:44 am

John Morris wrote:
December 9th, 2018, 11:36 am
GregT wrote:
December 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
Everywhere else, like say, Bordeaux, Sangiovese is best in the cooler vintages.
That's always been my view.
For Bordeaux, I do not agree at all. Warm, sunny, dry vintages produce markedly better wine than cooler years.

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