It's critic bingo! ("Lifted by metallic minerality")

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Lee Barnard
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1101 Post by Lee Barnard » June 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm

Now we have some prancing Black Forest cake. And some cinnamon toast and preserves. Rolland wuz here.

98-100 Points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate: "The 2019 Figeac is composed of 30% Merlot, 34% Cabernet Sauvignon and 36% Cabernet Franc, harvested from the 13th of September to the 7th of October. The alcohol this year is 14.1% and the pH is 3.7. Steal-your-heart scents of mulberries, black raspberries, Black Forest cake and cassis prance ever so gracefully out of the glass, followed by nuances of plum preserves, red roses, cinnamon toast and clove oil plus just a waft of lavender. Medium to full-bodied, the palate shimmers with electric energy, framed by a solid backbone of wonderfully ripe, grainy Cabernet-led tannins and bold freshness, finishing with fantastic persistence and with tons of emerging earth and floral layers. This is a simply stunning, seemingly effortless, beautifully harmonious expression of the vineyard and the vintage - bravo!" 6/20

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1102 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 23rd, 2020, 1:55 pm

We love prancing!

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1103 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 23rd, 2020, 1:58 pm

Lee Barnard wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
Now we have some prancing Black Forest cake. And some cinnamon toast and preserves. Rolland wuz here.

98-100 Points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate: "The 2019 Figeac is composed of 30% Merlot, 34% Cabernet Sauvignon and 36% Cabernet Franc, harvested from the 13th of September to the 7th of October. The alcohol this year is 14.1% and the pH is 3.7. Steal-your-heart scents of mulberries, black raspberries, Black Forest cake and cassis prance ever so gracefully out of the glass, followed by nuances of plum preserves, red roses, cinnamon toast and clove oil plus just a waft of lavender. Medium to full-bodied, the palate shimmers with electric energy, framed by a solid backbone of wonderfully ripe, grainy Cabernet-led tannins and bold freshness, finishing with fantastic persistence and with tons of emerging earth and floral layers. This is a simply stunning, seemingly effortless, beautifully harmonious expression of the vineyard and the vintage - bravo!" 6/20
6/20... I thought that was the rating! That is such a RMP note. That sentence reminds me of reading Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man!

Plus clove oil and lavender just sounds astringent.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1104 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 23rd, 2020, 2:15 pm

Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 1:58 pm
Lee Barnard wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
Now we have some prancing Black Forest cake. And some cinnamon toast and preserves. Rolland wuz here.

98-100 Points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate: "The 2019 Figeac is composed of 30% Merlot, 34% Cabernet Sauvignon and 36% Cabernet Franc, harvested from the 13th of September to the 7th of October. The alcohol this year is 14.1% and the pH is 3.7. Steal-your-heart scents of mulberries, black raspberries, Black Forest cake and cassis prance ever so gracefully out of the glass, followed by nuances of plum preserves, red roses, cinnamon toast and clove oil plus just a waft of lavender. Medium to full-bodied, the palate shimmers with electric energy, framed by a solid backbone of wonderfully ripe, grainy Cabernet-led tannins and bold freshness, finishing with fantastic persistence and with tons of emerging earth and floral layers. This is a simply stunning, seemingly effortless, beautifully harmonious expression of the vineyard and the vintage - bravo!" 6/20
6/20... I thought that was the rating! That is such a RMP note. That sentence reminds me of reading Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man!

Plus clove oil and lavender just sounds astringent.
Charlie, I’m glad you don’t toe the line!

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1105 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 23rd, 2020, 2:48 pm

Not fair!
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1106 Post by A Willi@mson » June 23rd, 2020, 3:08 pm

Richard Geoffroy doesn't count for this thread given he was a winemaker not critic but he had some classics. I was especially struck by his introduction of the 2009 Dom Perignon as "Really more like a Square than a Circle, as you can all clearly tell in the glass"
@l€x

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1107 Post by John Morris » June 24th, 2020, 7:23 pm

Lee Barnard wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 1:51 pm
Now we have some prancing Black Forest cake. And some cinnamon toast and preserves. Rolland wuz here.

98-100 Points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate: "The 2019 Figeac is composed of 30% Merlot, 34% Cabernet Sauvignon and 36% Cabernet Franc, harvested from the 13th of September to the 7th of October. The alcohol this year is 14.1% and the pH is 3.7. Steal-your-heart scents of mulberries, black raspberries, Black Forest cake and cassis prance ever so gracefully out of the glass, followed by nuances of plum preserves, red roses, cinnamon toast and clove oil plus just a waft of lavender. Medium to full-bodied, the palate shimmers with electric energy, framed by a solid backbone of wonderfully ripe, grainy Cabernet-led tannins and bold freshness, finishing with fantastic persistence and with tons of emerging earth and floral layers. This is a simply stunning, seemingly effortless, beautifully harmonious expression of the vineyard and the vintage - bravo!" 6/20
Beat you to it, in post #996 a week ago.

(I was sure I had posted that note, but it didn't turn up searching for "prance." Grrr. Finally found it searching for "Figeac.")
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1108 Post by Hans-Peter Eisele » June 26th, 2020, 9:15 am

Ah, gracefully prancing Black Forest cake is fine. Once had Black Forest cake stumbling out of the glass clumsily. That wasn't pretty, that wasn't pretty at all.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1109 Post by Otto Forsberg » June 26th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Hans-Peter Eisele wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 9:15 am
Ah, gracefully prancing Black Forest cake is fine. Once had Black Forest cake stumbling out of the glass clumsily. That wasn't pretty, that wasn't pretty at all.
Now there's a memorable first post if there ever was one!

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1110 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 29th, 2020, 7:09 am

Otto Forsberg wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 2:33 pm
Hans-Peter Eisele wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 9:15 am
Ah, gracefully prancing Black Forest cake is fine. Once had Black Forest cake stumbling out of the glass clumsily. That wasn't pretty, that wasn't pretty at all.
Now there's a memorable first post if there ever was one!
I wonder if Sir Hans-Peter was referring to himself, as we never saw him again! Stumbling BFC is a dangerous thing. Prancing is bad, but stumbling, really bad [wow.gif]


And hey, we have a new way of expressing how things waft from the glass . . . .
The 2016 Proprietary Red Wine is blended of 89% Cabernet Sauvignon, 6% Merlot, 3% Cabernet Franc, 1% Petit Verdot and 1% Carménère, with all fruit coming from the Quintessa estate, and it aged for 20 months in 73% new French oak. Very deep purple-black in color, it comes bounding out of the glass like a pedigree pup with exuberant notions of crème de cassis, warm blueberries and black cherries with hints of redcurrants, kirsch, candied violets, crushed rocks, cigar box and fallen leaves plus a waft of truffles. Full, rich and beautifully laced with layers of floral notes and fragrant earth, the profound black and blue fruits build slowly in the mouth, achieving great energy and depth with a beautiful velvety frame, finishing long and perfumed.

97+ points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate (Issue # Interim - Dec 2018)
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1111 Post by John Morris » June 29th, 2020, 8:38 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 7:09 am
.... And hey, we have a new way of expressing how things waft from the glass . . . .
The 2016 Proprietary Red Wine is blended of 89% Cabernet Sauvignon, 6% Merlot, 3% Cabernet Franc, 1% Petit Verdot and 1% Carménère, with all fruit coming from the Quintessa estate, and it aged for 20 months in 73% new French oak. Very deep purple-black in color, it comes bounding out of the glass like a pedigree pup with exuberant notions of crème de cassis, warm blueberries and black cherries with hints of redcurrants, kirsch, candied violets, crushed rocks, cigar box and fallen leaves plus a waft of truffles. Full, rich and beautifully laced with layers of floral notes and fragrant earth, the profound black and blue fruits build slowly in the mouth, achieving great energy and depth with a beautiful velvety frame, finishing long and perfumed.

97+ points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate (Issue # Interim - Dec 2018)
[cray.gif]

Please no more forced verbs for aromas! [beg.gif]

(Note that "waft" managed to sneak in there, though all this prancing and bounding originated as an alternative to that word.)
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1112 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 29th, 2020, 8:45 am

I distinctly remember my two pedigree pups, in their Exuberance, showcasing more wet slobbery cute puppy breath with a milky note. I wonder what mutts emit?
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1113 Post by Hans-Peter Eisele » June 29th, 2020, 1:13 pm

Otto, glad you thought my first post, ah, took, ah, the cake. *nerdgiggle* (I'll show myself out.)
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 7:09 am
I wonder if Sir Hans-Peter was referring to himself, as we never saw him again! Stumbling BFC is a dangerous thing. Prancing is bad, but stumbling, really bad
No, Sire, I'm fine, thank you. The stumbling BFC was liquored-up so hard that it wasn't in shape to pick a fight when I approached it, so no danger at all. Just the random bursts-from-the-glass "Vhere is mine frishe? Vhere is mine verdammten frishe?", followed by the introspective mumbling "Gewasted, Ich bin so gewasted...", was rather unpleasant to bear the entire lunch. But luckily this kind of BFC happens only with wines that have so much alcohol even the wine is drunk.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1114 Post by John Morris » June 29th, 2020, 3:04 pm

Hans-Peter Eisele wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 1:13 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 7:09 am
I wonder if Sir Hans-Peter was referring to himself, as we never saw him again! Stumbling BFC is a dangerous thing. Prancing is bad, but stumbling, really bad
No, Sire, I'm fine, thank you. The stumbling BFC was liquored-up so hard that it wasn't in shape to pick a fight when I approached it, so no danger at all. Just the random bursts-from-the-glass "Vhere is mine frishe? Vhere is mine verdammten frishe?", followed by the introspective mumbling "Gewasted, Ich bin so gewasted...", was rather unpleasant to bear the entire lunch. But luckily this kind of BFC happens only with wines that have so much alcohol even the wine is drunk.
If "gewasted" is really an import from English to Deutsch, I think we anglophones should all be proud.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1115 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 29th, 2020, 3:19 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 3:04 pm
Hans-Peter Eisele wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 1:13 pm
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 7:09 am
I wonder if Sir Hans-Peter was referring to himself, as we never saw him again! Stumbling BFC is a dangerous thing. Prancing is bad, but stumbling, really bad
No, Sire, I'm fine, thank you. The stumbling BFC was liquored-up so hard that it wasn't in shape to pick a fight when I approached it, so no danger at all. Just the random bursts-from-the-glass "Vhere is mine frishe? Vhere is mine verdammten frishe?", followed by the introspective mumbling "Gewasted, Ich bin so gewasted...", was rather unpleasant to bear the entire lunch. But luckily this kind of BFC happens only with wines that have so much alcohol even the wine is drunk.
If "gewasted" is really an import from English to Deutsch, I think we anglophones should all be proud.

Didn’t Parker already co-opt the phrase?

Pain grille.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1116 Post by John Morris » June 29th, 2020, 6:54 pm

Here's a note I love, from our own David Bueker here on WB. It's entirely metaphoric, but sums up a classic Chablis 1er cru vividly:
2010 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (6/29/2020)
Take a very sharp knife. Slide a lemon with one quick cut. Add a dusting of fine salt. Infuse with mineral water than has been reduced to a concentrate. Shake. Chill. Serve the knife.
A critic couldn't write all notes like this, but once in a while this approach is the best.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1117 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » June 30th, 2020, 8:04 am

John Morris wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:54 pm
Here's a note I love, from our own David Bueker here on WB. It's entirely metaphoric, but sums up a classic Chablis 1er cru vividly:
2010 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (6/29/2020)
Take a very sharp knife. Slide a lemon with one quick cut. Add a dusting of fine salt. Infuse with mineral water than has been reduced to a concentrate. Shake. Chill. Serve the knife.
A critic couldn't write all notes like this, but once in a while this approach is the best.

Well, except for the bit about reducing the mineral water to a concentrate. Water doesn't thicken, it just evaporates. I guess you could distill the minerals out, though.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1118 Post by John Morris » June 30th, 2020, 10:00 am

David didn't say the water thickened. But if you boil water with a lot of minerals, you get water with a more concentrated level of minerals.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1119 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 30th, 2020, 10:06 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:31 am
Marcu$ Stanley wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 3:58 pm
Let's take this one step further, people. There is *no* chocolate in any Bordeaux wine! There is not a single Bordeaux producer who mixes cacao powder or any other product of the cacao bean or even any artificial chocolate flavoring into their must or their wine before bottling! Amazingly, "chocolate" is just a *metaphor*, that is a familiar but imperfect analogy used to attempt to communicate a subjective impression of a wine flavor to a reader.

By general agreement, the "chocolate" metaphor can be at least reasonably useful in describing vinous flavors, in no small part because the range of experiences of chocolate is so vast (from extremely bitter to extremely sweet, light to intense, fruity to earthy, etc.) that people can generally find some purchase for the metaphor in how they experience certain wines. It is my contention, however, that the "black forest cake" metaphor, which unambiguously describes an extremely sweet, thick, fudgey, and confected dessert is not useful in describing what should be Bordeaux flavors, and if someone thinks it is this makes me believe either that the wine is bad or I don't trust their palate.

Jeff, I hope this explanation helps you to better understand what you are doing when writing wine tasting notes.
In the old days, I would have written some sarcastic response to your post. But as I've aged. Like my wine, I have mellowed and want to thank you for your explanation about experiencing chocolate in wine.

Until now, I often wondered if they actually placed chunks of Valhrona into the vats. Now, I know they only add cherries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries and plums. And what about all those fresh flowers, herbs, forest floor and truffles I find in wine? Do they add those into the blend as well?

Of course, that leaves me wondering as to which Cuban Cigars they include, my favorite being Cohiba Behikes! And what about licorice, tobacco, smoke, vanilla, leather, soy, salt, rocks, stones etc? How do they find the time to source all those ingredients? This also explains why they have so many vats in their cellars these days! Clearly they are all on the conspiracy saying each vat was for specific parcels. Now, thanks to you, I know the truth!

Thank you for filling me in. You really should write a book... "There is no F'ing Chocolate in Your Wine!" However, until your book comes out, I will simply continue using chocolate as a descriptor when that is the sensation I find in the wine.

Yes, good thing I have mellowed with age :D
pretty sure this qualifies as a sarcastic response! neener

Without wishing to continue the Great Black Forest Cake war of 2020, my point was very simple, and relevant to this thread in general -- description of flavors in wine is a metaphorical / stylistic exercise, not an objective scientific identification, and IMO when someone chooses to favorably describe a Bordeaux by analogy to a very sweet, rich, chocolate dessert that indicates either that their palate does not match mine, or that the wine is extremely non-traditional to the point of being a dessert wine, or both. I think this is a valid viewpoint regardless of whether I have tasted en primeur.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1120 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 30th, 2020, 10:25 am

John Morris wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:54 pm
Here's a note I love, from our own David Bueker here on WB. It's entirely metaphoric, but sums up a classic Chablis 1er cru vividly:
2010 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (6/29/2020)
Take a very sharp knife. Slide a lemon with one quick cut. Add a dusting of fine salt. Infuse with mineral water than has been reduced to a concentrate. Shake. Chill. Serve the knife.
A critic couldn't write all notes like this, but once in a while this approach is the best.

You don’t feel robbed?

We got knife, but not Black Forrest Cake!

A very very very expensive knife.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1121 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 30th, 2020, 11:05 am

John Morris wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:54 pm
Here's a note I love, from our own David Bueker here on WB. It's entirely metaphoric, but sums up a classic Chablis 1er cru vividly:
2010 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (6/29/2020)
Take a very sharp knife. Slide a lemon with one quick cut. Add a dusting of fine salt. Infuse with mineral water than has been reduced to a concentrate. Shake. Chill. Serve the knife.
A critic couldn't write all notes like this, but once in a while this approach is the best.
This note really highlights the masochistic nature of the search for ever-greater acidity and "edge" in white wines. Personally, I want structure in Chardonnay but I'll take a pass on a mouthful of razor blades.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1122 Post by John Morris » July 2nd, 2020, 8:17 am

It seems that this MW is unclear on the concept of "own-rooted":

"Grapes come from own-rooted vines planted in 1982 on AXR rootstock...." [scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]

And we have a new verb for aromas leaving the glass -- confidently striding!
2016 Pride Mountain Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve
"The 2016 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve is made up of 96% Cabernet Sauvignon and 4% Petit Verdot aged in roughly 50% new oak. Grapes come from own-rooted vines planted in 1982 on AXR rootstock—the roots are very deep and so not affected by phylloxera; 67% of the fruit came from Napa County and 33% from Sonoma County. Deep garnet-purple colored, it strides confidently out of the glass with classic cassis, fresh blackberries, warm plums and cedar chest notes followed by nuances of charcoal, pencil lead, camphor, chocolate box and black olives. Full-bodied, the palate is charged with fantastic energy, featuring bright, exuberant black berry and earthy flavors with a firm, ripe, finely grained frame, finishing long and lively."-Lisa Perrotti-Brown, MW
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1123 Post by Keith Levenberg » July 2nd, 2020, 12:38 pm

How does one tell if a wine is confident in its cassis and blackberries, or if it's riddled with angst and self-doubt?

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1124 Post by David Glasser » July 2nd, 2020, 12:42 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:38 pm
How does one tell if a wine is confident in its cassis and blackberries, or if it's riddled with angst and self-doubt?
Is the nose jumping/prancing/dancing out of the glass? Confident!
Is it exploding or roaring? Angry!
Is it reserved or slithering? Angst and self-doubt!
Is it unclean? Lack of self-care could be signs of cognitive impairment or a more serious mental disorder.
Pay particular attention to the tone when it speaks to you.
If still uncertain, ask about its relationship with its mother.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1125 Post by William Kelley » July 2nd, 2020, 2:36 pm

Marcu$ Stanley wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:05 am
John Morris wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 6:54 pm
Here's a note I love, from our own David Bueker here on WB. It's entirely metaphoric, but sums up a classic Chablis 1er cru vividly:
2010 François Raveneau Chablis Grand Cru Blanchot - France, Burgundy, Chablis, Chablis Grand Cru (6/29/2020)
Take a very sharp knife. Slide a lemon with one quick cut. Add a dusting of fine salt. Infuse with mineral water than has been reduced to a concentrate. Shake. Chill. Serve the knife.
A critic couldn't write all notes like this, but once in a while this approach is the best.
This note really highlights the masochistic nature of the search for ever-greater acidity and "edge" in white wines. Personally, I want structure in Chardonnay but I'll take a pass on a mouthful of razor blades.
Raveneau's 2010s are incisive, sure, but they're not painful to drink. TAs are a gram or so below what they were in e.g. 1990.
The Wine Advocate

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1126 Post by John Morris » July 2nd, 2020, 6:13 pm

David Glasser wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:42 pm
Keith Levenberg wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:38 pm
How does one tell if a wine is confident in its cassis and blackberries, or if it's riddled with angst and self-doubt?
Is the nose jumping/prancing/dancing out of the glass? Confident!
Is it exploding or roaring? Angry!
Is it reserved or slithering? Angst and self-doubt!
Is it unclean? Lack of self-care could be signs of cognitive impairment or a more serious mental disorder.
Pay particular attention to the tone when it speaks to you.
If still uncertain, ask about its relationship with its mother.
champagne.gif
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1127 Post by Jan Janas » July 2nd, 2020, 7:10 pm

The 2016 Proprietary Red Wine is blended of 89% Cabernet Sauvignon, 6% Merlot, 3% Cabernet Franc, 1% Petit Verdot and 1% Carménère, with all fruit coming from the Quintessa estate, and it aged for 20 months in 73% new French oak. Very deep purple-black in color, it comes bounding out of the glass like a pedigree pup with exuberant notions of crème de cassis, warm blueberries and black cherries with hints of redcurrants, kirsch, candied violets, crushed rocks, cigar box and fallen leaves plus a waft of truffles. Full, rich and beautifully laced with layers of floral notes and fragrant earth, the profound black and blue fruits build slowly in the mouth, achieving great energy and depth with a beautiful velvety frame, finishing long and perfumed.

97+ points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate (Issue # Interim - Dec 2018)
Raised-eyebrow

I don't know if I feel like I'm missing something by reading wine reviews and discovering such gems organically, or if I feel reassured that I'm not missing anything.

From someone that came into wine recently: have reviews always sounded like that or is it just a reflection of the ever riper and bolder style in winemaking?

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1128 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » July 2nd, 2020, 8:28 pm

Read through the MFW Issue 52 today and “Conference pear” and “Williams pear” came up as descriptors for a couple wines. For the pear enthusiasts, what is the difference?
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1129 Post by StevenB » July 2nd, 2020, 11:41 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:28 pm
Read through the MFW Issue 52 today and “Conference pear” and “Williams pear” came up as descriptors for a couple wines. For the pear enthusiasts, what is the difference?
The Williams Christ pear is well known for the spirit made out of it. Conférence is very slightly spicy (middle eastern spices, the Williams Christ has a very slight nutmeg note), a tiny bit less sweet than Williams Christ and Williams Christ is a tiny bit more intense in flavour. In the end, it all depends on when the pears are harvested as the ripeness is - in my view - the main factor in how the pears taste. And another big difference is the texture, but that is impossible to transport via grapes into the wine except with a lot of imagination.
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1130 Post by John Ammons » July 2nd, 2020, 11:55 pm

David Glasser wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:42 pm
Keith Levenberg wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:38 pm
How does one tell if a wine is confident in its cassis and blackberries, or if it's riddled with angst and self-doubt?
Is the nose jumping/prancing/dancing out of the glass? Confident!
Is it exploding or roaring? Angry!
Is it reserved or slithering? Angst and self-doubt!
Is it unclean? Lack of self-care could be signs of cognitive impairment or a more serious mental disorder.
Pay particular attention to the tone when it speaks to you.
If still uncertain, ask about its relationship with its mother.
Rarely is a 20+ page thread so beautifully encapsulated in a single post.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1131 Post by John Morris » July 29th, 2020, 9:34 am

Jan Janas wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 7:10 pm
From someone that came into wine recently: have reviews always sounded like that or is it just a reflection of the ever riper and bolder style in winemaking?
No, they didn't always sound like this. Parker was a clumsy writer, but he managed to convey enthusiasm without straining and going over the top. Many of the current crop of reviewers are simply awful writers, and plainly no one is editing them.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1132 Post by John Morris » July 29th, 2020, 9:40 am

[winner.gif]
Ring the bell! We have a new verb for that thing a wine does when you swirl it in the glass and sniff:
2019 Chateau Plince Pomerol
WA 90-92+
"Deep garnet-purple colored, the 2019 Plince rolls out of the glass wearing a lot of woody/cedar scents, before offering up notes of baked plums, blackberry pie and stewed black cherries with wafts of chargrill and tilled soil in the background. Medium to full-bodied, the palate has appealing freshness and nice, ripe grape tannins with a chewy component from the obvious wood, finishing savory."-Lisa Perrotti-Brown, MW

2019 Chateau de Sales Pomerol
WA 91-93
"The 2019 De Sales has a deep garnet-purple color, rolling effortlessly out of the glass with impressively intense baked cherries, plum preserves and fruitcake scents with nuances of potpourri, licorice, chocolate box and fragrant earth. The medium to full-bodied palate is chock-full of ripe, seductive black fruit preserves, framed by rounded tannins and seamless freshness, finishing long and perfumed. - Lisa Perrotti-Brown, MW
Sounds a bit like me the morning after I've drunk too much, though I doubt I smell of cedar or baked cherries then.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1133 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 30th, 2020, 8:48 am

Not surprisingly, sleek, comely and digitally fruity, yet it shows its fruit on a high white wire, like some iridescent filament snaking through darkness. Sitting in the glass it starts to smell like those little pink cookies (Biscuits de Reims) you see everywhere in the region. Im always torn between feeling this is a smart wine that also wants to show you how sexy it is, or a sexy wine that wants you to know how smart it is. Yet of course, smart is sexy. I heard that from Noam Chomsky.
Digitally fruity? I mean . . .
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1134 Post by Charlie Carnes » July 30th, 2020, 6:00 pm

Neal, who wrote that one. I looked a couple of pages back and couldn't find it.
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1135 Post by John Morris » July 30th, 2020, 9:16 pm

Yes, Neal -- attribution, please. I'm in awe of that one!

(I didn't know Noam Chomsky had said that. Was that his pick-up line?)
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1136 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 31st, 2020, 2:05 am

John Morris wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Yes, Neal -- attribution, please. I'm in awe of that one!

(I didn't know Noam Chomsky had said that. Was that his pick-up line?)
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 8:48 am
Not surprisingly, sleek, comely and digitally fruity, yet it shows its fruit on a high white wire, like some iridescent filament snaking through darkness. Sitting in the glass it starts to smell like those little pink cookies (Biscuits de Reims) you see everywhere in the region. Im always torn between feeling this is a smart wine that also wants to show you how sexy it is, or a sexy wine that wants you to know how smart it is. Yet of course, smart is sexy. I heard that from Noam Chomsky.
Digitally fruity? I mean . . .
Actually, his famed pick-up line was, “would you like to see my iridescent snake.”
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
(Country Squire, circa 2020)

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1137 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 31st, 2020, 6:52 am

The august, revered, cherished Terry Theise.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1138 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » July 31st, 2020, 7:32 am

In fairness that was always Terry Theise's brand. Now everyone overwrites like a dumber version of him. At least he tries not to repeat himself instead of turning his adjectival overreaches into repetitve tics.
Last edited by Marcu$ Stanley on July 31st, 2020, 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1139 Post by Neal.Mollen » July 31st, 2020, 7:38 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 2:05 am
John Morris wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Yes, Neal -- attribution, please. I'm in awe of that one!

(I didn't know Noam Chomsky had said that. Was that his pick-up line?)
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 8:48 am
Not surprisingly, sleek, comely and digitally fruity, yet it shows its fruit on a high white wire, like some iridescent filament snaking through darkness. Sitting in the glass it starts to smell like those little pink cookies (Biscuits de Reims) you see everywhere in the region. Im always torn between feeling this is a smart wine that also wants to show you how sexy it is, or a sexy wine that wants you to know how smart it is. Yet of course, smart is sexy. I heard that from Noam Chomsky.
Digitally fruity? I mean . . .
Actually, his famed pick-up line was, “would you like to see my iridescent snake.”
According to legend, it was more filament than snake.
I don't have to speak; she defends me

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1140 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » July 31st, 2020, 7:53 am

Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:38 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 2:05 am
John Morris wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Yes, Neal -- attribution, please. I'm in awe of that one!

(I didn't know Noam Chomsky had said that. Was that his pick-up line?)
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 8:48 am


Digitally fruity? I mean . . .
Actually, his famed pick-up line was, “would you like to see my iridescent snake.”
According to legend, it was more filament than snake.

Which is why he preferred the darkness. I prefer the light.
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1141 Post by John Morris » July 31st, 2020, 9:51 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 2:05 am
John Morris wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Yes, Neal -- attribution, please. I'm in awe of that one!

(I didn't know Noam Chomsky had said that. Was that his pick-up line?)
Neal.Mollen wrote:
July 30th, 2020, 8:48 am
Not surprisingly, sleek, comely and digitally fruity, yet it shows its fruit on a high white wire, like some iridescent filament snaking through darkness. Sitting in the glass it starts to smell like those little pink cookies (Biscuits de Reims) you see everywhere in the region. Im always torn between feeling this is a smart wine that also wants to show you how sexy it is, or a sexy wine that wants you to know how smart it is. Yet of course, smart is sexy. I heard that from Noam Chomsky.
Digitally fruity? I mean . . .
Actually, his famed pick-up line was, “would you like to see my iridescent snake.”
That was after he found that, "Baby, want to transform some grammar together?" wasn't effective.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

"I'm not slurring my words. I'm speaking cursive."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1142 Post by John Morris » August 6th, 2020, 8:27 am

Does this mean the wine is a bow-wow?
Deep garnet in color, the 2010 Lafon-Rochet comes bounding out of the glass with sit-up-and-beg notes of creme de cassis, blackberry pie and blueberry preserves followed by suggestions of Chinese five spices, potpourri and tilled soil. Full-bodied and concentrated, with loads of black and blue fruit layers, it has a rock-solid backbone of grainy tannins and compelling freshness, finishing long and fragrant. - 94 points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1143 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 6th, 2020, 8:33 am

John Morris wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:27 am
Does this mean the wine is a bow-wow?
Deep garnet in color, the 2010 Lafon-Rochet comes bounding out of the glass with sit-up-and-beg notes of creme de cassis, blackberry pie and blueberry preserves followed by suggestions of Chinese five spices, potpourri and tilled soil. Full-bodied and concentrated, with loads of black and blue fruit layers, it has a rock-solid backbone of grainy tannins and compelling freshness, finishing long and fragrant. - 94 points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate
Not like a “pedigreed pup” as we all know they won’t beg!

I’m so glad she went with pie over cake, I’m so tired of cake!
“Dammit Brian, until you tuited this diatribe, I was haiku aging my sh*t.“
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1144 Post by crickey » August 6th, 2020, 9:39 am

Since the original post on this thread was about overused words, melding with overused words that have an unknown meaning, Josh Raynolds introduced a new descriptor to me in his latest Oregon pinot article: "smoky minerality," along with the related "smoky minerals." An example (third wine in the article):

"Glistening ruby. Intense raspberry, cherry preserve and floral pastille scents are complemented by suggestions of cola, mocha and licorice. Deep, palate-staining red and dark berry, vanilla and floral pastille flavors show excellent clarity and a bracing spine of smoky minerality. Expands steadily with air and picks up a smoky nuance that builds on a strikingly long, fruit-driven finish. 35% new oak."

And it's pervasive. At one point, I found that descriptor in five straight wines (two producers, so it wasn't just one producer).

What is smoky minerality?

On a related note, I continue to enjoy his thesaurus work on adverbs to modify the color red in his notes: glistening, glittering, translucent, limpid, brilliant, vivid, shimmering, deep shimmering, bright-rimmed, "dark, bright-hued scarlet" (?), saturated... and that was just the first page.
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1145 Post by John Morris » August 6th, 2020, 10:02 am

I guess that while Molesworth was charring various woods ("singed alder" etc.), Raynolds was burning rocks.

My question is, what is "a spine of smoky minerality." "Spine" as a wine term usually refers to structure -- tannin or acid -- not to aromas or tastes.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1146 Post by Neal.Mollen » August 6th, 2020, 1:18 pm

John Morris wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:27 am
Does this mean the wine is a bow-wow?
Deep garnet in color, the 2010 Lafon-Rochet comes bounding out of the glass with sit-up-and-beg notes of creme de cassis, blackberry pie and blueberry preserves followed by suggestions of Chinese five spices, potpourri and tilled soil. Full-bodied and concentrated, with loads of black and blue fruit layers, it has a rock-solid backbone of grainy tannins and compelling freshness, finishing long and fragrant. - 94 points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate
Kinda kinky if you ask me.
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1147 Post by Sean S y d n e y » August 6th, 2020, 1:20 pm

John Morris wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 10:02 am
I guess that while Molesworth was charring various woods ("singed alder" etc.), Raynolds was burning rocks.

My question is, what is "a spine of smoky minerality." "Spine" as a wine term usually refers to structure -- tannin or acid -- not to aromas or tastes.
To me, a spine descriptor in a wine means that it runs from the front of the palate all the way to the back, and is a foundational piece of the wine. But I agree, it is somewhat structural and not really an aroma but I guess if the minerality runs from aroma to finish, it's...spiny?
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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1148 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » August 7th, 2020, 6:22 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:33 am
John Morris wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 8:27 am
Does this mean the wine is a bow-wow?
Deep garnet in color, the 2010 Lafon-Rochet comes bounding out of the glass with sit-up-and-beg notes of creme de cassis, blackberry pie and blueberry preserves followed by suggestions of Chinese five spices, potpourri and tilled soil. Full-bodied and concentrated, with loads of black and blue fruit layers, it has a rock-solid backbone of grainy tannins and compelling freshness, finishing long and fragrant. - 94 points, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate
Not like a “pedigreed pup” as we all know they won’t beg!

I’m so glad she went with pie over cake, I’m so tired of cake!
This note also features a recent "cover your ass" mannerism in wine notes, which is a whole bunch of descriptors of a jammy, heavy wine followed by a quick assurance that the wine has great structure and freshness ("compelling freshness").

Half the notes you see today are like, "this wine features strawberry jam, blackberry preserves, Chambord-inflected dark chocolate, molasses-flavored triple chocolate ganache, plus notes of fudge brownie and 120 proof rum on its intense and concentrated finish. And oh yeah, before I forget, it also has a compelling freshness and perfectly judged acidity"

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Re: It's critic bingo! (striding confidently when not prancing)

#1149 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » August 22nd, 2020, 3:36 am

Medium ruby-purple, the 2018 Bedrock Vineyard Heritage opens with fantastic perfume: ripe peach, sliced blueberries, warm red cherries, underbrush, violet and dried tangerine peel with nuances of crushed stone, dried hollyhock and exotic spices. Medium-bodied, it floods the mouth with singularly perfumed fruit layers, with a chewy frame and wicked freshness, finishing long and evolving. Wow! Just a pup, give this another year or two in bottle and drink it over the next 10-15 years.
Had no clue what a hollyhock was.

Google told me it was was a flower, but more interesting, it’s a flower that emits no aroma. No perfume. No nuances.

Now, I’m no gardner, so would not know that for sure, but that beside is the point.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ('19 Haut Brion threatens to "go atomic")

#1150 Post by Howard Cooper » August 22nd, 2020, 5:44 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 9:31 am
Marcu$ Stanley wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 3:58 pm
Let's take this one step further, people. There is *no* chocolate in any Bordeaux wine! There is not a single Bordeaux producer who mixes cacao powder or any other product of the cacao bean or even any artificial chocolate flavoring into their must or their wine before bottling! Amazingly, "chocolate" is just a *metaphor*, that is a familiar but imperfect analogy used to attempt to communicate a subjective impression of a wine flavor to a reader.

By general agreement, the "chocolate" metaphor can be at least reasonably useful in describing vinous flavors, in no small part because the range of experiences of chocolate is so vast (from extremely bitter to extremely sweet, light to intense, fruity to earthy, etc.) that people can generally find some purchase for the metaphor in how they experience certain wines. It is my contention, however, that the "black forest cake" metaphor, which unambiguously describes an extremely sweet, thick, fudgey, and confected dessert is not useful in describing what should be Bordeaux flavors, and if someone thinks it is this makes me believe either that the wine is bad or I don't trust their palate.

Jeff, I hope this explanation helps you to better understand what you are doing when writing wine tasting notes.
In the old days, I would have written some sarcastic response to your post. But as I've aged. Like my wine, I have mellowed and want to thank you for your explanation about experiencing chocolate in wine.

Until now, I often wondered if they actually placed chunks of Valhrona into the vats. Now, I know they only add cherries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries and plums. And what about all those fresh flowers, herbs, forest floor and truffles I find in wine? Do they add those into the blend as well?

Of course, that leaves me wondering as to which Cuban Cigars they include, my favorite being Cohiba Behikes! And what about licorice, tobacco, smoke, vanilla, leather, soy, salt, rocks, stones etc? How do they find the time to source all those ingredients? This also explains why they have so many vats in their cellars these days! Clearly they are all on the conspiracy saying each vat was for specific parcels. Now, thanks to you, I know the truth!

Thank you for filling me in. You really should write a book... "There is no F'ing Chocolate in Your Wine!" However, until your book comes out, I will simply continue using chocolate as a descriptor when that is the sensation I find in the wine.

Yes, good thing I have mellowed with age :D
And, when the descriptors you use seem fanciful and over the top, someone here will quote you and put your note in this thread. That is the way it works. I assume that you will not use the term hollyhock???
Howard

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