It's critic bingo! (Black Forest cake and tapenade)

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Robert.A.Jr.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#701 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 8th, 2019, 10:48 am

Jayson Cohen wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 9:18 am

Meanwhile on the LawyerBerserkers.com lawyer’s bingo thread:

Bingo card includes—
- for the foregoing reasons
- notwithstanding
- respectfully asks that the Court
- aforementioned
Plus:

- Govern yourself accordingly
- Esquire
- Effectuate
- Same
- Whether or not (the former implying the latter, of course)
- Including but not limited
- For avoidance of doubt (as a preamble to restating something because your first sentence was not clear)
- Whereas

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#702 Post by GregT » June 8th, 2019, 11:58 am

- Including but not limited
- For avoidance of doubt
Man if you know how many times I've told people that "including" is not limited unless it's modified. In other words, "including A and B" does not exclude C unless you state that you are "including ONLY A and B."

And the avoidance of doubt phrase is one of the dumbest. I always know I'm in the presence of a blowhard when I read that. Just state the point clearly and there will be no doubt!

But back to the game.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#703 Post by John Morris » June 11th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Take this to Asylum, boys! It deserves its own thread.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#704 Post by John Morris » June 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 3rd, 2019, 2:41 pm
As we all know, some wines speak to you. This one seems like a downright chatterbox:
The 2014 Barbera d'Alba is an intriguing wine in that it speaks more to the personality of the estate than to the year, or even to Barbera. The 2014 is a Cappellano wine, and that's pretty much all there is to it. Succulent, pliant and expressive, the 2014 has a lot to say. On the palate, the 2014 expresses the mid-weight style of the year. Dark chocolate, plum and spice meld into the super-expressive finish.
-- Antonio Galloni
Now for some wines that don't have a lot to say. What they do have in common with the Cappellano barbera is repetition:
2016 Peay Pinot Noir Scallop Shelf
Vinous 92
"The 2016 Pinot Noir Estate Scallop Shelf comes across as a bit shy in the way it speaks with a hushed voice. Inward and not especially expressive, the 2016 doesn't have either the depth of the Ama not the energy of the Pomarium. Instead, the Scallop Shelf lies somewhere in the middle, with a less clearly defined personality than the other Pinots in the range."-Antonio Galloni


2015 Peay Pinot Noir Estate Ama
Vinous 93+
"The 2015 Pinot Noir Estate Ama comes across as quite understated, especially within the context of the year. Bright red cherry, blood orange, mint and sweet spices give the wine its beguiling aromatics. Delicate and understated on the palate and also relative to other vintages the 2015 looks like it will drink well with minimal cellaring."-Antonio Galloni
"I'm a Frisbeetarian. We worship frisbees. We believe when you die your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down." – Jim Stafford

"The Internet has resulted in an exponential increase in the number of instances in which humor must be explained." - me, 2019

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#705 Post by K John Joseph » June 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm
2016 Peay Pinot Noir Scallop Shelf
Vinous 92
"The 2016 Pinot Noir Estate Scallop Shelf comes across as a bit shy in the way it speaks with a hushed voice. Inward and not especially expressive, the 2016 doesn't have either the depth of the Ama not the energy of the Pomarium. Instead, the Scallop Shelf lies somewhere in the middle, with a less clearly defined personality than the other Pinots in the range."-Antonio Galloni


2015 Peay Pinot Noir Estate Ama
Vinous 93+
"The 2015 Pinot Noir Estate Ama comes across as quite understated, especially within the context of the year. Bright red cherry, blood orange, mint and sweet spices give the wine its beguiling aromatics. Delicate and understated on the palate and also relative to other vintages the 2015 looks like it will drink well with minimal cellaring."-Antonio Galloni
That Scallop Shelf note is why Galloni (and many other critics) drive me absolutely nuts. You cannot read that tasting note and have any idea what it tastes like. Let's play a game, Galloni. Taste this soup and describe the soup to my friend so he can feel like he's here and decide whether to order this soup when he comes to this restaurant. *slurp* "The soup is soupy, but not expressive, or not as expressive as other soups. Its flavors are not as flavorful as other flavors, and I have had other soups that had more flavorful soupy flavors. 92 pts."

He's like Lloyd Christmas from Dumb and Dumber some times. What's the soup dejour? "the soup of the day." Mmmm, that sounds good. I'll have that.

The next note has redundancies, but at least it makes sense and you can get a very good impression of what the damn thing actually tastes like.

Champagne notes across many critics are like his first note. "Fine bead, precise, with firm cut and a lingering, mouth watering finish." Yeah but what does the wine actually taste like? Yeasty, pure citrus, biscuit, ginger, graham cracker, hazelnut, white peach, apple, marzipan, truffle...make an effort. It's for a paying consumer, not an effort in mental masturbation.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#706 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm

John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#707 Post by John Morris » June 11th, 2019, 6:02 pm

Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm
John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
No, you've enlarged my Anglo-Saxon vocabulary.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#708 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 11th, 2019, 6:06 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 6:02 pm
Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm
John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
No, you've enlarged my Anglo-Saxon vocabulary.
Of course a blue-blood like you would not know that word!

And charlie, not too crass, you like Loire Cab Franc like me!

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#709 Post by GregT » June 12th, 2019, 2:09 am

Interesting. I didn't know it was an irregular verb. More roughage would seem to be the key.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#710 Post by John Morris » June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am

Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#711 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 12th, 2019, 7:50 am

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am
Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
Have not had the 2018, but the 2009 Les Gravieres was horrid, like syrup. I mean really, who the hell wants to drink a chocolate mocha milkshake for wine?

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#712 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 12th, 2019, 9:26 am

GregT wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 2:09 am
Interesting. I didn't know it was an irregular verb. More roughage would seem to be the key.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#713 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 12th, 2019, 10:34 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:50 am
John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am
Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
Have not had the 2018, but the 2009 Les Gravieres was horrid, like syrup. I mean really, who the hell wants to drink a chocolate mocha milkshake for wine?
Wouldn't syrup be the very definition of the most decadent possible form of fruit? I guess "decadently fruited" sounds better than "syrupy".

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#714 Post by Jayson Cohen » June 12th, 2019, 11:19 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:50 am
John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am
Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
Have not had the 2018, but the 2009 Les Gravieres was horrid, like syrup. I mean really, who the hell wants to drink a chocolate mocha milkshake for wine?
This type of description - like one is drinking dessert - is how Rovani used to write red Burgundy tasting notes in the WA.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#715 Post by Jim Brennan » June 12th, 2019, 11:29 am

John Morris wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 2:02 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 3rd, 2019, 2:41 pm
As we all know, some wines speak to you. This one seems like a downright chatterbox:
The 2014 Barbera d'Alba is an intriguing wine in that it speaks more to the personality of the estate than to the year, or even to Barbera. The 2014 is a Cappellano wine, and that's pretty much all there is to it. Succulent, pliant and expressive, the 2014 has a lot to say. On the palate, the 2014 expresses the mid-weight style of the year. Dark chocolate, plum and spice meld into the super-expressive finish.
-- Antonio Galloni
Now for some wines that don't have a lot to say. What they do have in common with the Cappellano barbera is repetition:
2016 Peay Pinot Noir Scallop Shelf
Vinous 92
"The 2016 Pinot Noir Estate Scallop Shelf comes across as a bit shy in the way it speaks with a hushed voice. Inward and not especially expressive, the 2016 doesn't have either the depth of the Ama not the energy of the Pomarium. Instead, the Scallop Shelf lies somewhere in the middle, with a less clearly defined personality than the other Pinots in the range."-Antonio Galloni


2015 Peay Pinot Noir Estate Ama
Vinous 93+
"The 2015 Pinot Noir Estate Ama comes across as quite understated, especially within the context of the year. Bright red cherry, blood orange, mint and sweet spices give the wine its beguiling aromatics. Delicate and understated on the palate and also relative to other vintages the 2015 looks like it will drink well with minimal cellaring."-Antonio Galloni
Sounds like that wine is a low talker.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#716 Post by crickey » June 12th, 2019, 12:12 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am
Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
"Decadently-fruited" is actually a very good descriptive term. The responses it has drawn on this thread essentially boil down to "I don't like decadently-fruited wine." If that's the case, she did a good job of indicating it is a wine you should avoid.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#717 Post by John Morris » June 12th, 2019, 1:15 pm

I agree the phrase tells you a lot about the wine, though "fruited" is a bit annoying. What's the matter with "fruity"?

The real problem is the repetition. Good writers are careful to avoid reusing very distinctive phrases like that too often (e.g., recycling it in another review of the same category of wines).
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#718 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 12th, 2019, 1:39 pm

I like that it is gregarious pie. My favorite pies and desserts are those that speak to me before I goggle them up.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#719 Post by crickey » June 12th, 2019, 2:06 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 1:15 pm
I agree the phrase tells you a lot about the wine, though "fruited" is a bit annoying. What's the matter with "fruity"?

The real problem is the repetition. Good writers are careful to avoid reusing very distinctive phrases like that too often (e.g., recycling it in another review of the same category of wines).
In a report with 1000s of TNs, how often is too many? Also, context matters. LPB generally describes the tannin quality; how many ways are there really to describe tannins? You will have to expect significant repetition in those descriptions. I did flag AG a few weeks ago for using "outrageously beautiful" in two different Arnot-Roberts notes.

On "fruity" vs. "fruited," I have seen "red-fruited" more than a few times, and it doesn't bother me. "Decadently-fruited" is similar and strikes me as better than "decadently fruity," but I have a soft spot for adverbally-hyphenated compound adjectives.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#720 Post by John Morris » June 12th, 2019, 2:44 pm

If you have to say "fruity," or "fine-grained tannins" or "hard tannins" or "astringent" many times, so be it, even if it's repetitive. But it's a basic rule of good writing not to repeat too often phrases that call attention to themselves, as "decadently fruited" does.

"Red-fruited" bothers me less, perhaps because in that context "fruited" is not synonymous with "fruity" (you wouldn't normally describe a wine as "red fruity"), as it is in "decadently fruited." But if "red fruited" were used every time a critic meant "red fruits," it would stand out as a writing tick.

Another comparison: I'm OK with "plummy" but describing a wine as "plummed," "raspberried" or "apricoted" would seem odd.

My advice to these folks? Don't try to get poetic if you're devoid of literary talent.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#721 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 12th, 2019, 4:07 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 7:46 am
Another term for the LPB bingo card: "decadently fruited." I guess that's equivalent to Parker's favorite, "hedonistic."
2018 Durand-Laplagne Les Terres Rouges, Puisseguin-St.-Emilion
...scents of plum preserves, Black Forest cake and Chinese five spice with wafts of potpourri and fragrant earth. Full-bodied, rich and decadently fruited in the mouth, it has firm, plush tannins...

2018 Les Gravieres, St. Emilion
...deep garnet-purple and rocks up with gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...
I'm getting the sense she has dessert on her mind constantly (see post #638 above). But, from the descriptions of these wines, I guess they may satisfy that urge.
The thing about those "dessert bingo" tasting notes -- chocolate covered cherries! blueberry pie! fruit preserves! cake! ice cream! -- is that you are comparing a very expensive drink to some very cheap sweets. I mean, do you realize how many chocolate covered cherries you could buy for the price of one Grand Cru Burgundy? Several months worth, even for someone with a sweet tooth. If I want some chocolates and pie I'll just drop by the supermarket, I don't need to look to fine French wines for the experience.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#722 Post by Keith Levenberg » June 12th, 2019, 4:45 pm

Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm
John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
Wait, this is actually useful information. Every wine is either a total shart or a striking beauty whose depth blossoms in every dimension and captivates all the senses. Now we know the dividing line between those things is the line between 92 and 93 points.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#723 Post by Jayson Cohen » June 12th, 2019, 5:08 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:45 pm
Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm
John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
Wait, this is actually useful information. Every wine is either a total shart or a striking beauty whose depth blossoms in every dimension and captivates all the senses. Now we know the dividing line between those things is the line between 92 and 93 points.
Remarkably this is my binary scoring system as well. All of the wines I like are 93 points. All of the wines I don’t like are 92 points. No sharting though.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#724 Post by Yao C » June 12th, 2019, 5:16 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 1:39 pm
I like that it is gregarious pie. My favorite pies and desserts are those that speak to me before I goggle them up.
Haha what an amazing howler [rofl.gif]

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#725 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 12th, 2019, 6:48 pm

Look at my signature. I give extra points for wines that shart.

"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#726 Post by John Morris » June 12th, 2019, 8:52 pm

Looking back at that 2018 Les Gravieres note of LPB's, what's with that "rocks up," which she seems to employ as a verb phrase?

The other funny thing is the utter disconnect between her descriptors and Galloni's:
Perotti-Brown (94-96): "... gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...."

Galloni (91-94): "Freshly cut flowers, rose petal, mint and sweet red berry fruit are beautifully lifted in this very understated Saint-Émilion. Medium in body, refined and supremely gracious....
She gets all dark fruits and chocolate and mocha, while he tasted a floral, lifted, red-fruited [sic] wine. Hers was gregarious, big and full. His was understated, medium-bodied, refined and gracious.

It's hilarious that some merchants quote these side by side!
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#727 Post by Charlie Carnes » June 12th, 2019, 10:08 pm

Keith Levenberg wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 4:45 pm
Charlie Carnes wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 5:45 pm
John, you are being too nice. To me he seems to be saying that a crappy wine tastes good. It's like he sneezed, sharted, then gave it a 92. Please forgive me if that's too crass, ill take it down if it is.
Wait, this is actually useful information. Every wine is either a total shart or a striking beauty whose depth blossoms in every dimension and captivates all the senses. Now we know the dividing line between those things is the line between 92 and 93 points.
I'm just hoping the term will go down in the annals of wine berserker history.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#728 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 13th, 2019, 3:00 am

John Morris wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 8:52 pm
Looking back at that 2018 Les Gravieres note of LPB's, what's with that "rocks up," which she seems to employ as a verb phrase?

The other funny thing is the utter disconnect between her descriptors and Galloni's:
Perotti-Brown (94-96): "... gregarious blueberry pie, chocolate-covered cherries and plum preserves scents with nuances of violets, spice cake and mocha. Big, full and decadently fruited...."

Galloni (91-94): "Freshly cut flowers, rose petal, mint and sweet red berry fruit are beautifully lifted in this very understated Saint-Émilion. Medium in body, refined and supremely gracious....
She gets all dark fruits and chocolate and mocha, while he tasted a floral, lifted, red-fruited [sic] wine. Hers was gregarious, big and full. His was understated, medium-bodied, refined and gracious.

It's hilarious that some merchants quote these side by side!
I like that both anthropomorphize the wine, and if you merge the notes, it is both gregarious and gracious. Sounds like a wine to make my friend. Over a big slab of cake from Cheesecake Factory.

Having tried other vintages of this wine, LPB is more likely close to correct.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#729 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » June 13th, 2019, 7:05 am

I wouldn't let the use of decadent off so easily. I suppose it points to something like surmaturité (I'm using the French to remain neutral about the quality and avoid the negative meaning built in to overripe). But, just as hedonistic incorrectly turns a word that describes the attitude of some people into the quality of an object (objects give pleasure and hedonists either philosophically approve of such things or just enjoy them and are thus hedonistic) this use of decadent turns a word that always has at least the connotation of dissolution (saying a dessert is decadent says, not merely that it is delicious, but that its deliciousness is over the top, perhaps purchased at unjustified cost or at some cost of health) and turns it into a bland adjective of praise. It gives information, just as hedonistic does, only once one has entered the corrupt world of wine notes.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#730 Post by crickey » June 13th, 2019, 1:04 pm

To use another example I cited above for why I cut writers slack about repetition, it was mildly entertaining to see how many modifiers Josh Raynolds could come up with to qualify "red" as the color descriptor for Oregon pinots: translucent, glimmering, brilliant, bright, vivid, deep brilliant, limpid, shimmering, lurid, etc. Needless to say, there were frequent repeats, but so what? There are only so many ways to describe the quality of a color, and hundreds of wines to so describe.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#731 Post by John Morris » June 13th, 2019, 1:45 pm

This wine is not only rich; it exudes richness. I'm guessing it's sumptuous in all dimensions, too.
94-97 points Vinous
The 2018 L'Évangile is shaping up to be exceptional. Rich and sumptuous in the glass, the 2018 exudes richness in all of its dimensions. Opulent and dense in the glass, with soft curves and silky, polished tannins, the 2018 is hugely promising. All the elements just fall into place. Dark raspberry jam, cloves, menthol and new leather are some of the many notes that build in a sumptuous, racy Évangile loaded with class and personality. I can't wait to taste it from bottle. (AG) (4/2019)
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#732 Post by Jayson Cohen » June 13th, 2019, 6:32 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 13th, 2019, 1:45 pm
This wine is not only rich; it exudes richness. I'm guessing it's sumptuous in all dimensions, too.
94-97 points Vinous
The 2018 L'Évangile is shaping up to be exceptional. Rich and sumptuous in the glass, the 2018 exudes richness in all of its dimensions. Opulent and dense in the glass, with soft curves and silky, polished tannins, the 2018 is hugely promising. All the elements just fall into place. Dark raspberry jam, cloves, menthol and new leather are some of the many notes that build in a sumptuous, racy Évangile loaded with class and personality. I can't wait to taste it from bottle. (AG) (4/2019)
Does richness have dimensions, or does a wine have dimensions that can all exude richness? Does it matter?

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#733 Post by John Morris » June 17th, 2019, 11:15 am

Time to put the brakes on that metaphor!
La Spinetta Barbaresco Valeirano Riserva Magnums 2007
"This wine represents a crowning achievement among an elite group of magnum-only delayed releases. The 2007 Barbaresco Riserva Valeirano (Magnum) is nothing short of magnificent. It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect. Specifically, I am referring to the vibrant and dazzling quality of fruit that is traveling full speed ahead. Nothing about this wine has slowed down. In fact, I would expect this beautiful interpretation to pick up further speed and complexity as it continues its evolution. This wine is old but also new, sweet but also savory and powerful but also elegant. It is a wine of profound contrasts that find impeccable unity despite those inherent contradictions. Congratulations to La Spinetta." 99 points Monica Larner (Robert Parker's Wine Advocate)
This note should also be pulled over and issued a citation for blathering: "It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect." [scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#734 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 17th, 2019, 12:05 pm

Is it a white or a red?

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#735 Post by Jay Selman » June 17th, 2019, 12:34 pm

In addition to the Ray Walker thread, I vote to include this discussion as a "least likely to die a natural death" thread.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#736 Post by G. Newman » June 17th, 2019, 12:54 pm

Jay Selman wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 12:34 pm
In addition to the Ray Walker thread, I vote to include this discussion as a "least likely to die a natural death" thread.
Wow! I think you've just made John's day. It's hard to think of a greater Wine Berserkers achievement than that.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#737 Post by Alan Rath » June 17th, 2019, 1:06 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 11:15 am
Time to put the brakes on that metaphor!
La Spinetta Barbaresco Valeirano Riserva Magnums 2007
"This wine represents a crowning achievement among an elite group of magnum-only delayed releases. The 2007 Barbaresco Riserva Valeirano (Magnum) is nothing short of magnificent. It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect. Specifically, I am referring to the vibrant and dazzling quality of fruit that is traveling full speed ahead. Nothing about this wine has slowed down. In fact, I would expect this beautiful interpretation to pick up further speed and complexity as it continues its evolution. This wine is old but also new, sweet but also savory and powerful but also elegant. It is a wine of profound contrasts that find impeccable unity despite those inherent contradictions. Congratulations to La Spinetta." 99 points Monica Larner (Robert Parker's Wine Advocate)
This note should also be pulled over and issued a citation for blathering: "It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect." [scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
That is one godawful review. BTW, implied by the phrase "I would expect this... to pick up further speed" is a new entrant to your bingo card: acceleration. This is an accelerating wine. Makes you think of exhilarating, but with a twist.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#738 Post by John Morris » June 17th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Someone should take a speed gun to that wine!
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#739 Post by GregT » June 17th, 2019, 4:12 pm

Further nit-picking: "Nothing about this wine has slowed down." Slowed from what? Does all wine start out at the speed of light and then quietly settle in to an easy trot by the time it's bottled?

It's an interesting way to write though. She seems to be using words as punctuation marks. Where one might include a few exclamation points and perhaps an emoticon or two, here she just piles up words to describe things that have nothing to do with wine.

I think I'm going to write like that.

The wine was so loud it made my ears bleed and so hard it broke my toe. It was rougher than broken cement and bigger than a great blue whale!
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#740 Post by John Morris » June 17th, 2019, 5:14 pm

There's so much potential in conjunctions:
GregT wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 4:12 pm
The wine was so loud it made my ears bleed but so hard it broke my toe. It was rougher than broken cement yet bigger than a great blue whale!
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#741 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » June 17th, 2019, 6:04 pm


"@lf3rt was clearly raised in an outhouse in the Loire. . . ."

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#742 Post by crickey » June 18th, 2019, 7:54 am

This article by Eric Asimov can be read as a criticism of this thread, because if there is one thing this thread stands for, it is that tasting notes should be dreary and dull.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/dini ... -ios-share

The article ends with this thought:

"Perhaps Mr. Parker’s greatest contribution to wine writing was his infectious enthusiasm. Whether people ultimately agreed or disagreed with his taste, they were inspired to want to find in wine what he so exuberantly found himself.

The biggest gift wine writers can give to their readers is inspiration, arousing in them the sort of excitement that motivates learning. From there, consumers can travel to their own muse, which is the best possible outcome."

So much of this thread stands for a rejection of precisely this thought.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#743 Post by John Morris » June 18th, 2019, 11:13 am

crickey wrote:
June 18th, 2019, 7:54 am
This article by Eric Asimov can be read as a criticism of this thread, because if there is one thing this thread stands for, it is that tasting notes should be dreary and dull.
Not at all!

Asimov, William Kelley, Luis Guittierez and John Gilman, to take a few examples, all write clearly and vividly without resorting to cliches and bizarre metaphors.

I've said over and over in this thread that I found Parker's notes helpful, and his enthusiasm was one of the things that made the WA so appealing. He was a clunky writer, but he didn't fancy himself a literary stylist, thank heavens. He didn't hyperventilate or fill his notes with meaningless blather. I'm pretty sure if someone told him a wine "pulses with energy in all of its dimensions" he would have said, "WTF?" You could get a pretty good idea of the style of a wine from his tasting note, which you don't from many of Galloni and LPB's.

The target here is comically bad writing that isn't helpful to a consumer.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#744 Post by David Glasser » June 18th, 2019, 12:12 pm

The trick to good wine writing is conveying both an infectious enthusiasm and a comprehensible description of the wine.

Most of the notes criticized in this thread fail to convey a comprehensible description precisely because they are trying too hard to convey infectious enthusiasm. At which they mostly also fail.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#745 Post by John Morris » June 18th, 2019, 12:28 pm

David Glasser wrote:
June 18th, 2019, 12:12 pm
Most of the notes criticized in this thread fail to convey a comprehensible description precisely because they are trying too hard to convey infectious enthusiasm. At which they mostly also fail.
Or they're trying to be quoted in shelf-talkers to built the publication's brand, which they can capitalize on through sponsored events, or whatever. That's the only explanation I can see for every review ending with "Don't miss it!" or the like. Parker, to his credit, always seemed to be writing to wine buyers, while many "critics" today write as if they're in the PR and marketing departments of wineries.

Which raises another question: When was the last time Galloni or LPB said that a wine sucked? I guess Galloni dissed one vintage at Giacosa, didn't he?
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#746 Post by David Glasser » June 18th, 2019, 12:43 pm

That's another reasonable possibility, John, but points tend to count more than words when it comes to shelf talkers.

It's been a long time since I've read the critics regularly so I can't help with your question about the last time they said a wine sucked. I recall Parker panning the entire S. Rhone vintage in 2002. That was a long time ago.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#747 Post by Jonathan Loesberg » June 18th, 2019, 12:47 pm

Panning the entire 02 Southern Rhone vintage, though, like all generalizations, had some (in this case moderate) counter examples, was more in the nature of a report than a review. I don't know anyone who disagrees with him, not even the Anti-Flavor Wine Elite, of which group I am a card carrying member.

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#748 Post by crickey » June 18th, 2019, 12:54 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 18th, 2019, 12:28 pm
David Glasser wrote:
June 18th, 2019, 12:12 pm
Most of the notes criticized in this thread fail to convey a comprehensible description precisely because they are trying too hard to convey infectious enthusiasm. At which they mostly also fail.
Or they're trying to be quoted in shelf-talkers to built the publication's brand, which they can capitalize on through sponsored events, or whatever. That's the only explanation I can see for every review ending with "Don't miss it!" or the like. Parker, to his credit, always seemed to be writing to wine buyers, while many "critics" today write as if they're in the PR and marketing departments of wineries.

Which raises another question: When was the last time Galloni or LPB said that a wine sucked? I guess Galloni dissed one vintage at Giacosa, didn't he?
I was exaggerating for effect, but I think you are missing the forest for the trees. The point of Asimov's article is that tasting notes a la Parker (it was sort of a valedictory article on Parker's retirement) are not useful, and that wine writing should try to create enthusiasm rather than try to describe a wine.

Asking when LPB or Galloni dissed a wine is a little unfair, as they don't generally publish bad reviews. The lowest score I found in a quick search from LPB was a 79. In Galloni's 2018 Bordeaux review, the lowest score was 78-80. That's why it was when in Josh Raynolds recent review of Oregon Pinots, there were two 55-pointers and a 56-pointer. One of them: "Unnervingly thick and slimy in texture, with stewed dark fruit flavors that don't let up. I imagine that this is what berry-flavored Jeppson's Malort® would taste like. Takes Pinot Noir to another level. On the plus side, it is probably indestructible." It had a drinking window of 2050-2095. Other than the WTF reviews, the next lowest was an 87.
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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#749 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 18th, 2019, 5:31 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 11:15 am
Time to put the brakes on that metaphor!
La Spinetta Barbaresco Valeirano Riserva Magnums 2007
"This wine represents a crowning achievement among an elite group of magnum-only delayed releases. The 2007 Barbaresco Riserva Valeirano (Magnum) is nothing short of magnificent. It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect. Specifically, I am referring to the vibrant and dazzling quality of fruit that is traveling full speed ahead. Nothing about this wine has slowed down. In fact, I would expect this beautiful interpretation to pick up further speed and complexity as it continues its evolution. This wine is old but also new, sweet but also savory and powerful but also elegant. It is a wine of profound contrasts that find impeccable unity despite those inherent contradictions. Congratulations to La Spinetta." 99 points Monica Larner (Robert Parker's Wine Advocate)
This note should also be pulled over and issued a citation for blathering: "It is intense and articulate in ways you don't expect." [scratch.gif] [scratch.gif]
I particularly love the "specifically". Like, what do I mean by saying this wine is "intense and articulate"? Glad you asked! To be specific, it has dazzling fruit that is traveling full speed ahead and has not slowed down! Surely that makes it clear!

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Re: It's critic bingo! ("vertical in feel")

#750 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » June 18th, 2019, 5:37 pm

GregT wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 4:12 pm
Further nit-picking: "Nothing about this wine has slowed down." Slowed from what? Does all wine start out at the speed of light and then quietly settle in to an easy trot by the time it's bottled?

It's an interesting way to write though. She seems to be using words as punctuation marks. Where one might include a few exclamation points and perhaps an emoticon or two, here she just piles up words to describe things that have nothing to do with wine.

I think I'm going to write like that.

The wine was so loud it made my ears bleed and so hard it broke my toe. It was rougher than broken cement and bigger than a great blue whale!
LOL. Tall tale wine reviews are the next frontier! "This wine eats storm clouds, farts thunder, and spits lightning! Put your nose in the glass and feel a tornado rush up your nostrils! The taste is a Cat Five hurricane in your mouth, and the finish will grab you by the balls and spin you round till all the money falls out of your pockets! Don't miss it!"
crickey wrote:
June 18th, 2019, 7:54 am
This article by Eric Asimov can be read as a criticism of this thread, because if there is one thing this thread stands for, it is that tasting notes should be dreary and dull.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/dini ... -ios-share

The article ends with this thought:

"Perhaps Mr. Parker’s greatest contribution to wine writing was his infectious enthusiasm. Whether people ultimately agreed or disagreed with his taste, they were inspired to want to find in wine what he so exuberantly found himself.

The biggest gift wine writers can give to their readers is inspiration, arousing in them the sort of excitement that motivates learning. From there, consumers can travel to their own muse, which is the best possible outcome."

So much of this thread stands for a rejection of precisely this thought.
Yeah, I disagree with Asimov. Wine does not require professional writers to inspire readers with infectious enthusiasm. Who isn't enthusiastic about drinking wine? Everybody already loves wine, it doesn't need more cheerleaders. Plus there are already a whole bunch of cheerleaders for wine, they're called marketing departments. If someone is going to be paid to be a supposedly unbiased wine critic they need to bring some insight, information, and clarity to the table.
Last edited by Marcu$ Stanley on June 18th, 2019, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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