Old World in the New.

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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JeromeHan
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#1 Post by JeromeHan » March 16th, 2017, 9:53 am

After trying some Oregon Drouhin, I am more curious now about New World ventures of Old World Producers. I know Antinori is trying some in Napa with Antica, but I was wondering if there were any others out there. They don't all necessarily have to be great, I am just curious about seeing any differences and/or perspectives.

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#2 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 16th, 2017, 9:59 am

Dominus
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#3 Post by Jay T. » March 16th, 2017, 10:01 am

Tablas Creek (Beaucastel). I think the wines are quite good
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#4 Post by Howard Cooper » March 16th, 2017, 10:01 am

There are a whole bunch of sparkling wine producers in California, like Domaine Chandon and Roederer. Opus One is part Mouton. Dominos is Mouex. Resonance in Oregon is Jadot. Tons more.
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#5 Post by Howard Cooper » March 16th, 2017, 10:03 am

There are also things going the opposite was, like Kalin making burgundy
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#6 Post by Scott Everson » March 16th, 2017, 10:20 am

Antinori does Col Solare, one of the better Red Mountain wineries in my opinion.

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#7 Post by Blake R Maso » March 16th, 2017, 10:28 am

Alfred Tesseron (Pontet Canet) bought Robin William's estate. New name escapes me.

Acaibo in Sonoma (Haut bages liberal, dufort vivens, ch domeyne, ferriere)

List goes on and on.

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#8 Post by JeromeHan » March 16th, 2017, 10:34 am

Dominus, Tablas, and Opus one of course are the more established ones. I was looking for things that I may not have known. Thanks for the info!

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#9 Post by BrianMarshall » March 16th, 2017, 10:50 am

HDV is a project involving Aubert du Villaine from DRC and Hyde Vineyards
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#10 Post by Ian Sutton » March 16th, 2017, 11:47 am

Chapoutier have been in Australia for decades (and have made some decent wines).

The movement of individual winemakers goes well beyond joint ventures etc. and many have done vintages in both worlds.
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#11 Post by Carlos Delpin » March 16th, 2017, 11:55 am

Araujo.

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#12 Post by Scott Tallman » March 16th, 2017, 12:03 pm

Nicolas Jay in Oregon
CT - WestbyGod

Climbs like Tony Martin and descends like Thibaut Pinot

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#13 Post by Paul Jaouen » March 16th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Both Oregon:

Véronique Drouhin & Isabelle Dutartre Pinot Noir Caballus

Jacques Lardiere Resonance Pinot Noir
Best,
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#14 Post by Scott Everson » March 16th, 2017, 2:15 pm

Alexandrine Roy works out of Phelps Creek

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#15 Post by Scott Everson » March 16th, 2017, 2:20 pm

Serge Laville of Spring Valley Vineyard is about as French as they come

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#16 Post by James Billy » March 16th, 2017, 2:37 pm

Assuming Australia is including in the category 'New World':

Chapoutier (Rhone) in Heathcote
Graillot (Rhone) in Heathcote
Chandon (Champagne) in Yarra Valley (+)
Merchard (Burgundy) in Margaret River
Dominique Portet (Bordeaux) in Yarra valley/Heathcote

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#17 Post by Izzy Nosnik » March 16th, 2017, 5:20 pm

May de Lencquesaing, the former owner of Pichon Lalande, owns/makes Glennelly Estate in Stellenbosch. Not a huge fan of South African reds in general, but it was academic to give her wines a try. As a fan of Pichon Lalande and the slight bit of subtle green/violet character the wine would take from the high petit verdot content, I was hoping to see similar style in her wines from there.

Didn't get much of that though, although the wines are reasonably well made and the property is stunning.

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#18 Post by JeromeHan » March 16th, 2017, 7:33 pm

Scott Everson wrote:Serge Laville of Spring Valley Vineyard is about as French as they come
This actually looks very interesting! Any specific suggestions?

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#19 Post by Graeme Gee » March 16th, 2017, 7:38 pm

James Billy wrote:Assuming Australia is including in the category 'New World':

Chapoutier (Rhone) in Heathcote
Graillot (Rhone) in Heathcote
Chandon (Champagne) in Yarra Valley (+)
Merchard (Burgundy) in Margaret River
Dominique Portet (Bordeaux) in Yarra valley/Heathcote
Egon Müller also makes (made?) riesling in South Australia, a label called Kanta.
Nice wine, but hardly-Saar-like.
cheers,
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#20 Post by JeromeHan » March 16th, 2017, 8:01 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:Chapoutier have been in Australia for decades (and have made some decent wines).

The movement of individual winemakers goes well beyond joint ventures etc. and many have done vintages in both worlds.
Are they mostly doing Shiraz in Australia or is there some grenache over there too?

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#21 Post by Scott Everson » March 16th, 2017, 8:46 pm

Spring Valley:
Uriah if you like Merlot
Frederick is BDX, Jean Claude Van Damme on the bottle
Nina Lee is Syrah
Katherine Corkrum is Cab Franc
Honestly I had to look at the website to remember the name of the Cab Franc wine, and learned there's now a Derby (Cab Sauv), Mule Skinner ( Merlot), and Sharilee (Petit Verdot).
I think if you are looking for consistently very good American Made Bordeaux inspired blends (maybe not great, but always very good), Spring Valley should be right up there for bottles less than $50. Winebid has had a fair amt of cheap bottles this year, and Safeway's Washington Wine month sales represent a pretty good deal as well in the 6 bottle mix-n-match form.

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#22 Post by Paul Fountain » March 16th, 2017, 10:21 pm

JeromeHan wrote:
Ian Sutton wrote:Chapoutier have been in Australia for decades (and have made some decent wines).

The movement of individual winemakers goes well beyond joint ventures etc. and many have done vintages in both worlds.
Are they mostly doing Shiraz in Australia or is there some grenache over there too?
Mostly shiraz but there are a couple of other things like Chardonnay, rose, and I think a Riesling as well. It is all in the state of Victoria, which isn't grenache heartland.

At one stage had 4 separate projects happening in Australia
There were were joint projects with Ron Laughton of Jasper Hill in the Heathcote region under the La Pleiade label and with Rick Kinzbrunner of Giaconda fame in Beechworth under the Ergo Sum label - both he and Kinzbrunner have sold out of that one (it is now known as Domenica and is run owned by Kinzbrunner's former assistant and produces some nice wines.
Then there is Terlato & Chapoutier and Tournon are both from the (confusingly named) Pyrenees region which is about 2 1/2 hours drive north west of Melbourne.
I'm not sure what the current status is other than he no longer does Ergo Sum - there is a lot of out of date info on the net!
I still see the Tournon wines about.

It is probably worth mentioning that Remy Martin first set up vineyards in the Pyrenees region back in 1963 which later went on to become the Blue Pyrenees label, so the French must see something in the region.
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#23 Post by Chris Seiber » March 16th, 2017, 10:38 pm

That would be a fun theme for a blind tasting - new world wines of old world wineries.

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#24 Post by Chris Seiber » March 16th, 2017, 10:42 pm

Moet makes sparkling wine in northern India now, under the Moët label.

It sort of makes sense, those old world brands don't really have room to expand production in their home regions, but if Moët can make sparkling wine in Napa and India, or Cheval Blanc can make wines in Chile, that makes sense as long as the quality is still pretty good.

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#25 Post by James Billy » March 17th, 2017, 12:18 am

Taltarni ( Pyrenees, Victoria.)

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#26 Post by Andrew Hamilton » March 17th, 2017, 12:30 am

James Billy wrote:Assuming Australia is including in the category 'New World':

Chapoutier (Rhone) in Heathcote
Graillot (Rhone) in Heathcote
Chandon (Champagne) in Yarra Valley (+)
Merchard (Burgundy) in Margaret River
Dominique Portet (Bordeaux) in Yarra valley/Heathcote
Apologies for being a pedant James but it's Marchand. The domaine in Nuits is Marchand Tawse, in Australia Pascal Marchand has teamed up with Jeff Burch, the owner of Howard Park to have a shared "Marchand & Burch" label. Fun fact, I was told not too long ago that Jeff Burch is responsible for more than 50% of the total pinot noir production in Western Australia.
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#27 Post by Rory K. » March 17th, 2017, 2:01 am

Gruet et Fils has had great success in New Mexico making value sparklers, as well as some pretty darn decent vintage champenoise.
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#28 Post by James Billy » March 17th, 2017, 2:13 am

Andrew Hamilton wrote:
James Billy wrote:Assuming Australia is including in the category 'New World':

Chapoutier (Rhone) in Heathcote
Graillot (Rhone) in Heathcote
Chandon (Champagne) in Yarra Valley (+)
Merchard (Burgundy) in Margaret River
Dominique Portet (Bordeaux) in Yarra valley/Heathcote
Apologies for being a pedant James but it's Marchand. The domaine in Nuits is Marchand Tawse, in Australia Pascal Marchand has teamed up with Jeff Burch, the owner of Howard Park to have a shared "Marchand & Burch" label. Fun fact, I was told not too long ago that Jeff Burch is responsible for more than 50% of the total pinot noir production in Western Australia.
Andrew,

Thanks. Strange, though, as I'm sure I checked it on Google. Probably forgot to corect it....

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#29 Post by John Morris » March 17th, 2017, 7:12 am

William Fevre of Chablis makes some quite respectable reds at Vina William Fevre in Chile.

Ch. Lafite has Bodegas Caros in Argentina.

Dr. Loosen of the Mosel operates Eroica in Washington State as a joint venture with Chateau Ste. Michelle.

I'm not sure whether Morocco qualifies as New World, but Alain Graillot of Crozes-Hermitage makes credible syrah there under the Syrocco label.

What about South Africa? Any European wineries doing things there? None come to my mind.
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#30 Post by Ian Sutton » March 17th, 2017, 8:15 am

Andrew Hamilton wrote:Fun fact, I was told not too long ago that Jeff Burch is responsible for more than 50% of the total pinot noir production in Western Australia.
Albeit the relatively few wines made from Western Australian Pinot Noir come in for some scathing reviews from Aussie critics. I'm trying to think of a WA producer that has made a genuine commercial / critical success from the grape. This despite some of the very highest regarded producers having given it a go.
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#31 Post by Ian Sutton » March 17th, 2017, 8:17 am

Chris Seiber wrote:That would be a fun theme for a blind tasting - new world wines of old world wineries.
I was assuming that was part of Jerome's reasoning in asking the question.
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#32 Post by GB Hernandez » March 17th, 2017, 8:46 am

Blankiet is a good one
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#33 Post by JeromeHan » March 17th, 2017, 11:05 am

Ian Sutton wrote:
Chris Seiber wrote:That would be a fun theme for a blind tasting - new world wines of old world wineries.
I was assuming that was part of Jerome's reasoning in asking the question.
Yes it is. I probably should have clarified. I am looking for Old World Producers who are producing the same type of wine in the New World to compare them (i.e. Drouhin Burg vs Drouhin Oregon Pinot)
GB Hernandez wrote:Blankiet is a good one
Blankiet? I thought that was just American?

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#34 Post by Ian Sutton » March 17th, 2017, 11:17 am

Cool - should be an interesting tasting.

Another champagne producer branching out is Taittinger buying up land/vineyards in the UK a couple of years ago, though I'm not aware of a Taittinger UK wine, and it probably would be difficult to find in the US.

Argentina and Chile should be good hunting grounds for such wines, with French, Italians and Spanish venturing there. I'll throw in Masi (Veneto) and Masi (Tupungato) as a useful pairing. I'd skip the lower priced passo doble, which was stunning on it's initial vintage, but pretty poor after that (both IMO). The Corbec is made in Amarone style, but from Corvina and Malbec (hence the name). Comparing this against Masi's standard Amarone would be a good comparison and I'm not sure the Corbec wouldn't do well in such a head to head.
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#35 Post by Barry Paul Price » March 17th, 2017, 11:45 am

Image
Tropicalfruit notes o creamnotes

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#36 Post by A*W*Means » March 18th, 2017, 6:11 am

I love Jonathan Malthus' wines. He makes Le Dome and owns Ch. Teyssier, but makes wines in Napa under "The World's End" label. His new world stuff is nice, rich, and balanced. Stephane Derononcourt does the same thing too in Napa. His label is fantastic as well.
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#37 Post by JeromeHan » March 18th, 2017, 6:32 am

Barry Paul Price wrote:Image
I will look for one of these. It seems I can find a bottle of the 2003 for around $60.
A*W*Means wrote:I love Jonathan Malthus' wines. He makes Le Dome and owns Ch. Teyssier, but makes wines in Napa under "The World's End" label. His new world stuff is nice, rich, and balanced. Stephane Derononcourt does the same thing too in Napa. His label is fantastic as well.
I've always felt that Derenoncourt's wines bordeauxs were already very new world in style.

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#38 Post by chetkern » March 18th, 2017, 8:43 am

Piero Incisa della Rocchetta from Sassacaia family, owns Bodega Chacra in Patagonia, Argentina and produces several different old vines Pinot Noir's.

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#39 Post by Soren R Nielsen » March 18th, 2017, 9:13 am

The Rothschilds in Chile:
Almaviva, big red, debuted 1996. (not cheap on release!)
Escudo Rojo, today with a line of different lower priced bottlings. Debut red wine 2003?

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#40 Post by JeromeHan » March 18th, 2017, 9:35 am

Soren R Nielsen wrote:The Rothschilds in Chile:
Almaviva, big red, debuted 1996. (not cheap on release!)
Escudo Rojo, today with a line of different lower priced bottlings. Debut red wine 2003?

-Søren.
I've been eye the Almaviva, but they are a bit out of my price range to just try for a tasting.

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#41 Post by A*W*Means » March 18th, 2017, 2:05 pm

JeromeHan- Derononcourt def makes wines with more unctuousness. But for those that like his old world stuff, they might want to try his Napa stuff out.

I love me some Almaviva. I like its balance better than Cheval des Andes. Cheval can be a gigantic wine.
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#42 Post by Jason T » March 18th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Rory K. wrote:Gruet et Fils has had great success in New Mexico making value sparklers, as well as some pretty darn decent vintage champenoise.
It's subjective but I'm not sure that this applies going forward (or has applied for the last couple of years), since I believe they source most of their juice from California now, and at least to my palate the quality has dropped over the years.
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#43 Post by J a y H a c k » March 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm

Blake R Maso wrote:Alfred Tesseron (Pontet Canet) bought Robin William's estate. New name escapes me. . .
And last year, he was very excited about making wine from California grapes.
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#44 Post by Bdklein » March 18th, 2017, 3:25 pm

Jason T wrote:
Rory K. wrote:Gruet et Fils has had great success in New Mexico making value sparklers, as well as some pretty darn decent vintage champenoise.
It's subjective but I'm not sure that this applies going forward (or has applied for the last couple of years), since I believe they source most of their juice from California now, and at least to my palate the quality has dropped over the years.
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#45 Post by Tyler Berry » March 18th, 2017, 4:48 pm

Bdklein wrote:
Jason T wrote:
Rory K. wrote:Gruet et Fils has had great success in New Mexico making value sparklers, as well as some pretty darn decent vintage champenoise.
It's subjective but I'm not sure that this applies going forward (or has applied for the last couple of years), since I believe they source most of their juice from California now, and at least to my palate the quality has dropped over the years.
+1
+2

I've been terribly disappointed with the Gruet wines since they removed New Mexico added "American" to the label.
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#46 Post by Drew Goin » April 24th, 2017, 5:44 pm

From a knowledgeable wine reporter/blogger:

"Mora Estate in Sonoma makes wine in an Amarone style. Here's their website:"

https://www.moraestate.com/

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#47 Post by Jonathan Grunzweig » April 24th, 2017, 5:52 pm

I have enjoyed a number of wines from World's End, the Napa project of Jonathan Maltus, of Le Dome/Teyssier fame (https://www.maltus.com/), noting that there has been some tricky variation among vintages.

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#48 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » April 24th, 2017, 6:15 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
Blake R Maso wrote:Alfred Tesseron (Pontet Canet) bought Robin William's estate. New name escapes me. . .
And last year, he was very excited about making wine from California grapes.
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#49 Post by PFMay » April 25th, 2017, 4:14 am

John Morris wrote: What about South Africa? Any European wineries doing things there? None come to my mind.
Three I know of in addition to Glenelly

Bouchard-Finlayson in Hemel in Aarde Valley - tie up between Bouchards of Burgundy and Finlaysons of South Africa - excellent Burgundian style (natch) Pinot noir

L'Avenir Estate in Stellenbosch, bought by Laroche of Chablis

Chabivin in Stellenbosch - (sparkling wines) 50/50 venture with Charbout Champagne family of Epernay

Also Rupert & Rothschild, but the Rothschild here is Benjamin and I don't if he's a member of the winery Rothschilds
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#50 Post by Howard Cooper » April 25th, 2017, 4:22 am

Howard

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