Wine service

I wouldn’t have a problem with a somm confirming the bottle is sound rather than leaving it to me… in most cases. As long as it’s someone who knows wine and knows what they are tasting. If this ends up becoming main-stream, I would not want a server who has limited wine knowledge/experience taking on this task – even if they are “trained” by their employer on what to do.

The more interesting part of the article to me was that these restaurants seem happy to take back a bottle that is sound just because a customer doesn’t like it. Is that really commonplace and acceptable? Do any of you do that? I have only ever done it when the bottle is flawed.

It makes sense as long as they are pros. Most people that order wine wouldn’t know the difference if the bottle was sound.

Oddly enough some somms also don’t know the difference either as corked/oxidized bottles have been returned that they insisted were correct

I know a wine enthusiast on an Aussie forum, who helped a mate out by doing some wine service for his restaurant. He is very sensitive to TCA, so was wondering whether he should offer to taste on behalf of customers.

Ignoring us wine enthusiasts, I know many normal people get horrifically stressed by this little institution. They don’t understand what ‘corked’ means, may never have heard of TCA, nor have any experience spotting it. They are thus in no way equipped to taste the wine other than ‘like’ / ‘dislike’ and this ill-preparedness is a cause of stress (or for a smaller few, a chance to show off some pomposity/ignorance).

I would expect whoever serves the wine to at least sniff the cork. IME this can identify most instances where there is taint and only occasionally gives a false positive. This can be trained, even if that means taking cork/wine back into the kitchen and then getting staff who haven’t experienced it to have a sniff and also to sniff and taste the wine. I’d also be all for letting any customers who show interest do the same. Education is best done hands on.

As for wine waiter/waitress tasting. Yes, definitely if there is doubt or to confirm TCA. If they are sensitive and experienced, then I’d be more than happy for them to remove the job of tasting for soundness from me. I still don’t enjoy the routine, and can still miss it on first sniff/taste.

If they aren’t skilled / experienced / sensitive to it, then yes I’ll stick with the normal routine. I’d hate to show them up if they say it’s fine and I disagree.

regards
Ian

Interesting, Ian. I haven’t found that sniffing the cork yields much and always wish to taste. YMMV.

I am firmly in the school of not returning a wine unless it is unsound. What I find interesting is the percentage of times the server has been surprised when I tell them to bring the same wine out again. I often have to make it clear that I am returning “this bottle” not “this wine” and that I’m not simply returning it because I don’t like it.

I guess there is a possibility that I would switch wines in two cases: one, perhaps it’s corked but I could tell I would not like the wine otherwise, in which case there’s no reason not to switch things up. Two, if the wine was cooked and therefore I question the storage conditions for all the bottles they have of that wine. In either case I would let my server know exactly what’s going on.

I dare say I’m a bit of a marshmallow on these things and probably should return more bottles. Even when I know a wine is clearly flawed and I have every right to return it I still find the situation quite stressful.

I’d be fine with a presumably experienced member of the restaurant staff trying the wine then serving it if they think it’s correct; if I then think that it’s off I’ll say something, but eliminating the first taste for the customer really isn’t any different from simply serving the food without any ritual or first taste

My problem with wine service is when the bottles are taken away and opened or decanted in a different part of the restaurant. When I bring high end wines and the somm takes a taste, I think that should cover some the corkage charges. Otherwise, I am fully capable of tasting the wine and deciding whether it is corked or flawed. Just leave the bottle on the table.

I am opposed to the somm tasting my BYO bottle unless I have offered it. Random waiters tasting wine and telling me it’s OK is fairly useless. Unless it is an experienced wine person, I would rather be the judge of that.

I like the “victim language”…

“Mr. Hiatt’s feeling of disenfranchisement…”

He should organize a march.

Everyone here mentions ‘experienced wine person’ or the such. Who would qualify under those terms? I’ve been around somms who could not tell a wine is corked, and around folks who don’t drink wine who can pick out TCA from 5 feet away . . .

I understand where the somm is coming from here, but as others have mentioned, it is not only the ‘ritual’ that is important here, but the entire process. If the bottle is removed and then returned either in a decanter or just the cork pulled, you miss out on part of the process - and I for one enjoy that process (that is if I’m going to consume a wine under cork )

Just my $.02 . . .

When I am in the floor and the host who ordered the wine is engaged in conversation, I - as politely as possible - interrupt and ask “would you like to taste the wine or should I go ahead and pour?”

I also make notes on my regular guests. Some like to taste EVERYTHING. Some like to taste nothing. Some like to taste the first bottle and then not others. Some order whites for their wives and want their wives to taste. Everyone has their idiosyncrasies; its my job to remember them and do my best to honor their wishes.

not experienced in my book

There’s a difference between a byo wine and one off the list; the restaurant essentially warrants their own wines so their checking it first isn’t unreasonable, rather like the chef tasting a bit of the sauce that goes on your dish in the kitchen.

I guess I just don’t need the whole ritual and agree that more often than not it’s an interruption. I trust you, so just serve me the wine and if I don’t agree with you and think it’s that it’s flawed, I’ll tell you, just as I would with the food (I also don’t go into the kitchen to plate up my dish).

Quoting from the article – is this true?

No reputable restaurant wants to stick a table with a bottle it doesn’t like. Nowadays, restaurants welcome guests to use that tasting moment to determine whether they like the wine, and will happily take back the offending bottle. They can sell the remainder by the glass (which is most likely more profitable then selling it by the bottle), or use it to educate the restaurant staff.

At best, I think this is overstated, but I’m of the opinion that if you’ve ordered a wine and it’s sound, you should pay for it.

Fundamentally it’s the latter’s skill that is critical in this scenario, rather than that of a dude who knows his Bordeaux from his Claret

Only mentioned byo because Jerry Hey referenced it when talking about his byo wine being taken somewhere else and somm tasting the wine. I have had somms taste my wine even when not asked to. It should be my option, not theirs. I think the whole ritual of tasting first trying to determine if the wine is flawed or not. As I am TCA sensitive, I pick it up quickly.

Great points made by John Ragan. I wouldn’t want anyone drinking anything they didn’t like. I’m not saying that guests should be free to rip through 5 bottles trying to find the right one but a better restaurants should be willing to take back a bottle that doesn’t meet expectations or fit just as they should with a menu item. I mean thats why we charge such healthy mark ups

I don’t think I would ever send wine or food back, for the sole reason I didn’t like it. My choice, my mistake.

Faulty wine, *badly cooked food - yes, that’s different.

regards
Ian

• On one occasion the chicken I was served was still frozen inside. Rather uncomfortably however, I was dining with a lady who worked there (on an afternoon off for her), so we were ever so discreet in getting that replaced. Definitely not the moment to kick off!

+1

I’ve usually decanted and checked for soudness at home to avoid disappointment. Have had somms tell me the reason they taste is to ensure soundness at service. Isn’t that my call to make, especially if I have more experience with the wine in question than they do?

Not likely to return to establishments where this happens and luckily there are several great restaurants in Atlanta that don’t engage in this bs practice.