Champagnes similar to René Collard and De Meric (Ginsburg era)

As the last of my René Collard champagne stock dwindles, I am looking for other champagnes made in a barrel fermented powerful oxidative style…yet still posessing a savory unami like quality.

Collard-Picard’s meunier heavy champanges are wonderful…but hard to come by at the moment.

I love De Meric sous bois champagnes…but they are also getting harder to find.

I like both Bedel Dis, Vin Secret and Entre Ciel et Terre - but find them faint reflections of Collard’s style…not quite powerful enough for me.

All suggestions welcomed. I understand that palates vary - so will not set my expectations high but rather enjoy the process of discovering the wines suggested.

I’m interested in any responses as well, though I don’t recall Collard’s style as being particularly oxidative - rather, I always found his wines to be quite fresh, but more Meunier-flavored than almost any I can think of, which I loved.

Do you like Bollinger Grande Annee vintage wines?

As far as Pinot Meunier, how about José Michel?

Alan Rath - I agre that Collard’s style is not really oxidative…yet his wines are often described as such. I am drinking a '92 Carte d’Or - day 2, and marvelling at the savory unami like qualities under the fruit. Have you found any champanges that comes close…aside from Collard-Picard or De Meric?

Nowell Karten - I have not tried Bollinger Grande Anée…or any Bollinger yet…but I think I will give it a whirl - thanks.

I have tried José Michel entry level meunier…and found it very lively and frush…but nothing like Collard. It was much lighter in character…in fact the perfect wine to try on my friends who cliam Meunier is too heavy and rustic. Very nice but nothing like Collard’s powerful complex style. Is there a partricular José Michel wine that you would recommend. Maybe I just need to taste more of his wines…

I’ve had interesting examples of the Special Club and the Cuvée du Père Houdart, but I’m not implying that they’re significantly similar to Rene Collard; rather, I think they’re good examples of Pinot Meunier.

With a little searching, you can probably find many threads that discuss Meunier-based Champagne.

I had Tarlant Cuvée Louis a couple of nights ago an found it very oxidized.

Nowel - Thank you for the suggestions and clarification that they are not Collard clones but rather great example of meunier. Will try them out and get back :slight_smile:

Michael - Thank you for suggesting a Tarlant…I have read his profile and thought his style might be appealing. Will see if I can get hold fo that bottle :slight_smile:

Please keep the suggestions coming. Thank you to all of those who have already responded so quickly :slight_smile:

Have you tried Fleury? Both the Fleur de l’Europe and Millésimé 2002 are quite rich and oxidative, the latter even more so.

Mary, try and see if you can get hold of Alexandre Filaine. I sometimes find Filaine a little Collard-like, even if not so much in terms of detail, more in terms of the overall ‘Gestalt’. Good bottles of Filaine can be quite memorable.

Henri Giraud Fut de Chene

I’m not at all familiar with the champagnes mentioned but I have recently had a few Benoit Dehu La Rue des Noyers. All meunier and aged in oak barrels. Not so easy to find but well worth the search. I’ve also been enjoying Christophe Mignon Pur Meunier Brut Nature. No wood here but an excellent expression of meunier at a very good qpr.

+1 on Christophe Mignon Pur Meunier although not oxidative as indicated above.

I have not tried the Champagnes mentioned by OP either but if one is looking for top notch 100 % Meunier two great options are Chartogne-Taillet’s Les Barres and Emmanuel Brochet’s Les Hauts Meuniers.

Haven’t checked if this is easy to find, but the Billiot Cuvee Julie ought to fit the bill too.

Hi Mary,

You really aren’t going to easily find anything out there similar to Rene Collard’s wines - especially as they start to get a good amount of age on them. To me, they were never that interesting until they had 20+ years of age on them, but, then again, many were not released until they had significant age on them. At this point, they become pure animals and you either love 'em or hate 'em with no in between. Personally, I don’t think De Meric was all that similar to Rene Collard, but Ginsburg was inspired by and loved Rene Collard so I get the comparison. If you are looking for an equivalent to young Rene Collard wines which to me were always rustic, a bit heavy, and early maturing without a lot of interesting complexity then there are quite a few producers in the Marne Valley you could look at, but I am going to take a guess that you are more interested in something that tastes like Rene Collard as it ages. My thoughts below are based on this, but, please tell me if I am off-base on my assumption.

Collard-Picard run by Olivier Collard (Rene’s Grandson) makes great wines. Olivier is a huge fan of what his grandfather did and always happy to open one of the bottles he got after Rene Collard’s stock was divided up and sold off, but I don’t think his wines are all that similar either. They are much more smooth and fruity in most cases (at least to me).

The first two producers that pop to mind as kind of similar to me are Bollinger and Michel Loriot. Bollinger’s Grande Annee wines have been gaining more and more of an animalistic, meaty, oxidative edge to them with 5 years of aging after release. VVF has always had this character and it really comes out with age, but VVF is also very expensive - especially for older bottles. The biggest issue with Bollinger is that it is a classic Pinot Noir and Chardonnay blend from top villages, where Rene Collard’s wines are completely different; still, I find some similarities. Michel Loriot does a great job with Pinot Meunier and I have seen a number of his pure Pinot Meunier wines (or his father’s wines) go quite a bit, musky, animalistic, or gamey. They are more smooth and creamy than Rene Collard, but they have some similar characteristics.

Older wines from Goutorbe-Bouillot in Damery also can show some similarities to Rene Collard, but they tend to be a bit sweeter. Additionally, newer releases are much more precise and structured which is not going to likely be what you are looking for. In general, this trend is going to make it difficult for you to find a Rene Collard ‘stand-in’. Most producers are now looking to go for structure, finesse, and precision regardless of grape type, soil, or what style best suits their vines. This has led to the style of Rene Collard to be on the outside for right now.

For classic Pinot Meunier producers, I really think you need to look for producers who are not right next to the Cote des Blancs. The soil needs to be heavier on clay. When you move east in the Marne Valley and get close to the Cote de Blancs (as in Pierry) you start to get a lot of chalk and many of the wines are brilliant Pinot Meuniers that I love, but they are also much more precise and have a mineral structure that is the opposite of Rene Collard’s wines. Jose Michel is an example of this. Also, a lot of the wines from Pinot Meunier territory that has chalky soil tend to be a mix of Chardonnay and Pinot Meunier which makes a big difference.

For some of the other wines mentioned, I love Billiot’s Julie and it is a very wild and unique wine, but it is nothing like Rene Collard. Christophe Mignon’s wines are not a bad suggestion, but depending on the dosage level may be a bit too dry and acidic. They do have the early maturity characteristic going on, but they lack the animal edge of Rene Collard in my opinion. Benoit Dehu’s wines are more structured and dry to be a good Rene Collard comparison for me. Still, Mignon and Dehu are probably worth a try. I don’t think Tarlant, Henri Giraud, or Fleury are all that similar although Fleury makes a number of wild wines and many can go animal, but in a different way from Rene Collard.

As a final note, you may know that, after he passed, most of Rene Collard’s stock went to J de Telemont and Drappier. I have no clue what Drappier is doing with their stock, but J de Telemont has released theirs under their ‘Heritage’ label. Prices are higher than what Rene Collard went for, but some availability is there.

I guess, to sum it up, there is a reason Rene Collard was unique, loved, and will be greatly missed: no one else is, was, or likely will be quite like him as a person or a vinegrower/winemaker.

Sorry to get back to this thread so late…real life intervened, keeping me far too busy the last few weeks.

Thank you for all the suggestions…what a delightful colletion of wines to try. I will post back as I try each suggested wine. Might have to rob a bank first… I appreciate the time taken…becuase it will save me time in my search for ‘somewhat Collard like’ champagne.

Brad - Thanks for such a detailed post. You are correct that my introduction to Collard was through his mature wines…I have never tasted one that did not have at least 10 years aging. Your remark about the wines not being interesting until they had some age on them intrigues me.

I should have clarified in my comparsison of De Meric and Collard: I should have specified that I meant de Meric Brut Sous Bois ’ Cuvée René’. It is similar although not quite the powerhouse that Collard is to my palate…but beggers (me) can’t be choosers.

Thank you for explaining the influence of soil, more specifically heavy clay soil. on meunier based wines. I have tasted José Michel and found it almost the oppsoite of Collard…so your explanation makes sense. I feel slightly better about living on a hill of heavy clay bedpan after reading your post :wink:

I have tried Collard-picard brut and loved it…probably the closest to René Collard. It is hard to come by at the moment…hoping K&L will get some in soon.

The few J de Telmont Heritage bottles I have seen have been quite pricey these days…but if ever I come across one reasonably, I will snap it up. I imagine that Drappier will just use Collard’s stock to add depth to their blends? I live in hope that they will release a blend en hommage to Collard :wink:

Thank you for such detailed suggestions. You don’t perchance, have a wine blog/review site…or book? Most champagne writers seemed devoted to more mineral driven champagne…and consider Collard ‘rustic’ and unappetizing. So nice to find a palate that can appreciate different styles…and write so elequantly about champange.

To everyone who has made suggestions…thank you. I had about given up hope. I am on a limited budget -both financiancially and health wise - in regards to trying new wine…so thee suggestions are invalauble. Thanks again for helping a Collard fan out :slight_smile:

In case time passes, before Brad sees this, his well-regarded publication is Champagne Warrior:

Nowell - THANK YOU!!!